Thread 64081307

Now when the dust has settled...
Why 2023 Ukrainian counter-offensive failed?

>>64081307 (OP)
Mines.

>>64081307 (OP)
Why did Russia already memoryhole their Sumy offensive?

>>64081307 (OP)
It didn’t failed, vatniks like op still have seething at mastery Ukraine tactics.

Security researchers have raised the alarm that vatnik threat indicators may include a propensity for anti social behaviours.

OP should be committed for this harmful spam

poor operational level leadership

>>64081307 (OP)
The Ukies received less equipment than promised and it arrived late. I remember the Leo tanks as the most egregious example.

Also the Russians had learned their lesson from the Kharkiv/Kherson blunder, actually prepared defenses building minefields of unprecedented density and also blew up a dam right as the offensive started which made the frontline shorter by a third and easier to defend.

>>64081307 (OP)
Musk turned off Starlink.

>>64081307 (OP)
the fact that Ukraine didn't human wave troops into mine fields. once the issue came up tactics changed. just to grind russians with drones

>>64081329
The US needed to listen to Britain more and give more capability to Ukraine

Utterly embarrassing and humiliating for the US

>>64081307 (OP)
>reaching to 2023 to make yourself feel better about your side being embarrassing

>>64081307 (OP)
Why does Russia have a 14:1 casualty rate against the Ukrainians? That seems pretty unsustainable to me.

>>64081329
Oh God Americans are fucking retarded, thank god none listened to them

>>64081307 (OP)
>now 'that' the dust
>why 'did the' 2023 ukranian
indian hands typed this post

>>64081370
>Hey, they put everything into this line of defense, like every ounce of effort is holding the line with not much in the backfield
>we'll just distribute our forces as wide as operationally possible and not focus on any weak points
Skill issue desu

>>64081370
if Ukraine did it, it would have been akin to Inchon landing in greatness and would've changed the course of the war

>>64081307 (OP)
they literally made trailers for it. Unsurprisingly, the enemy was not caught off guard.

>>64081307 (OP)
Mines, fortifications and telling everybody months in advance what your plan was.

>>64081329
What's the source of this? Back then I heard that Ukraine attacked while being warned that it wasn't going to work out, and they were advised not to attack at all.

>>64081413
> with not much in the backfield
But there was quite enough troops AND defensive fortifications in backfield. Why are you lying? Russians literally dragged more troops to Zaporuzhia than Ukraine

>>64081307 (OP)
They just didn't have the mass. It would only have worked if the russians had staid as incompetent as they were in 2022, which sadly they didn't.

>>64081307 (OP)
>please remember the one time a Ukrainian offensive didn't result in complete puccian humiliation

>>64081307 (OP)
We knew why right away. Why are you asking now? Is it the planes in Crimea that got whacked?

>>64081307 (OP)
Overconfidence: after the succes of the Kherson and Kharkiv offensive in 2022, Ukraine and the west thought that they were on top of the world.

Lack of engineering/mineclearing vechicles: if the US had supplied more M58 MICLICs, then Ukraine could have gotten further.

A lack of planning: honestly, if Ukraine could have reached and held Tokmak, a local supply hub for the russians. I would have called it a successful assualt, but the plan was pretty much just march south til you reach the sea.

Tl;dr It's very easy to be smart in hindsight.

>>64081480
>Russia took almost 4 months to move 3 brigades to defend/attack Robotyne
Damn, almost like Ukraine got bogged down long enough for Russian forces to respond... I wonder if anyone warned them about why it was so important to breakthrough the main defensive line quickly?

>>64081469
>What's the source of this? Back then I heard that Ukraine attacked while being warned that it wasn't going to work out, and they were advised not to attack at all.
you have that backwards. ukraine was being forced by the wst to make the attack.

>>64081307 (OP)
They didnt listen to NATO (read: American) planners and divided their forces in three. 2 for the two axis of attack and the third sent to Bahkmut. As a result they lacked the mass to break the lines and where they did achieve breaks they lacked the reserves to exploit them. Really quite simple.

They needed to attack earlier and concentrate more forces, but it's easy to talk about it from the comfort of an armchair, they needed time to train soldiers and tactical level leaders, but that time gave the enemy more time to fortify and mobilize, they needed to concentrate their forces, but that could lead to some operation Uranus tier actual encirclement of their forces.

>>64081311
/thread.

>>64081525
Interdicting Tokmak was stated to be the target months in advance. The objective was very clear.

>>64081528
> bogged down long enough for Russian forces to respond...
But Russia moved most of the forces before Ukraine even started offensive. Are you just retard who know nothing about what happened there?

>>64081561
The attack towards Zaporizhzhia was never going to succeed. It was a fundamentally flawed plan that showed no signs of any kind of success.
>entirely predicted - zero surprise - no way to get inside the enemy's OODA loop
>well-fortified positions on the enemy's side, zero advantages in terms of terrain
>no real superiority against the enemy in any form, artillery, air or ground elements
>no serious anti-air capability - attack during daytime anyway
>no serious breaching capability or training - attack through DEEP obstacles anyway
The whole thing was retarded. True Soviet planning.

>>64081561
Problem: it’s impossible to concentrate forces on transparent battlefield
Solution: they needed to concentrate their forces MORE

>>64081593
> True Soviet planning
American plan was for Ukraine send under strengthen units with barely any training and no breaching capability at all.
I don’t understand why people here shit on “SOVIET PLANNING” when American plan was INFINITELY more retarded

>>64081307 (OP)
They let Americans see the plans and there is no one more easily corrupted than those mutts. Half their command structure would lick the Udmurt's taint for free

Now that the dust has settled...
Why has the Kyiv offensive failed?
Why has the winter offensive failed?
Why has the Kharkiv offensive failed?
Why has the Sumy offensive failed?

>>64081625
Because the Ukrainians were the ones who had the final say, and they're a post-Soviet country in full and their military is STILL full of Soviet officers. All their relevant Soviet officers have Russo-Soviet military trainings, and it's obvious. Low-level initiative, NCO corps, highly-trained individual soldiers with genuine understanding of the enemy? All of these are foreign to Ukraine, because they have never had the chance to actually modernize their military from the Soviet systems it was left with. Sure, the Ukrainians do what they can, but because Russia invaded in 2014, they lost any real chance to actually free themselves from their Soviet legacy and build a Western military system.

>>64081656
> Because the Ukrainians were the ones who had the final say
How that relates to American plan being SO FUCKING RETARDED it wasn’t taken seriously at all. Can you read at all?
>American plan was for Ukraine to attack with untrained, under strength unit with no western equipment or breaching abilities
>it was Ukrainian fault American plan was retarded

>>64081656
>All their relevant Soviet officers
Senior officers*

>>64081672
>b-but americans
Who gives a fuck? Why are you trying to twist this into a discussion of burgers as if they were the ones controlling Ukraine's military?

>>64081547
No they weren't

>why did [Ukrainian offensive] fail?
Retarded slavs
>Why did [Russian offensive] fail?
Even more retarded slavs

>>64081682
You’re blaming attack failures on “Soviet military” I give you example that Americans managed to make soviet planning look competent

>>64081625
You've got a copy of the american plan or something? Nothing I've ever seen suggests anything or the sort

>>64081701
What's the example, though? So far all you've done is make shit up

>>64081710
> Nothing I've ever seen suggests anything or the sort
Americans wanted for Ukraine to attack 3 months earlier before troops finished training and any western heavy equipment arrived. What do you think attack would be composed off?

>>64081726
According to who?

>>64081307 (OP)
The military ineptitude of EU countries.

>>64081316
>Anti social behaviors
>Committed
What's with the weird anti-gun ESL shills here today? Nobody in the West uses "anti social" as some kind of excuse for government tyranny.

>>64081345
>>64081370
You're either retarded or a shill, focusing on one point was the correct call.

>>64081701
You're a seething Europoor leftist.

>>64081720
Because he's a seething Europoor leftist.

>>64081754
According to New York times

>>64081813
>no link
>well nyt said...
Lmao ok bro

>>64081307 (OP)
Killing the enemy 5-10:1 and gaining groudn is a fialure?

>>64081635
Whataboutism x4

>>64081865
But why have they failed?

What blew up in Russia today?

I ncase anyone wonders what's got the zigger shills riled: Ukrainian hackers broke into the systems of the russian central bank and found correspondence showing that the situation ahs gone so bad they're planning on printing 15 trillion rubles over the next 3-6 months. For comparison, they've printed about 8 trillion over the last 3 years.

>>64081813
The fakest fake news? Lol, lmao.

>>64081926
Anon, rugerians arent that retarded. What's your source?

Oh wow it's another false flag thread by ziggers and turdies trying their absolute best to discredit ukies.

>>64081955
>immediate seethe
Oh fuck its real lmao

>>64081975
Anytime now nafo trannies

>>64081963

There have been quite a number of zigger false flag posts over the past week. It's starting to look like zig shills are shifting their strategy away from endless BBC posting.