Thread 64086758

>https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/spain-rules-out-buying-f-35-choosing-between-eurofighter-or-fcas-2025-08-06/
>https://theaviationist.com/2025/08/06/spain-f-35-plans/
Looks like Spain dropped their plan to purchase F-35s to replace their aging harriers.
With FCAS dead it looks like they will be left without fixed-wing fast jet capability and reverts to helicopters only for their carrier.

>>64086758 (OP)
Sorry, I couldn't ignore this news
>https://theaviationist.com/2025/08/06/b-2-2022-incident-aib-report/

>>64086758 (OP)
Lmao in world where helicopters are more and more being seen as drone fodder this seems like a bad idea.

>Spanish flagship is a carrier with no planes
>Thai flagship is a Spanish carrier with no planes

>>64086764
It's crazy how we're willing to repair $300 million in damage to an aircraft.
or how an explosion to a $2 billion aircraft only caused $300 million in damage.
Also, callsign DEATH-12 is metal as fuck.

Sometimes i wonder why italy doesn't simply go full blitzkrieg and invade all of the med basin. Their only opponents worth a damn would be france, egypt and turkey, but apart from them it looms like a piece of cake.

>>64086758 (OP)
What a fucking retarded idea, Jesus Christ.

>>64086783
cause Italy is broke. the moment they launch a war against another EU nation their only source of gibs is cut off.
they're in a worse state then they were before we2.

>>64086758 (OP)
spain is pretty poor, true.

>>64086798
Are you honestly telling us that the 8th largest economy in the world, and 3rd largest in Europe, is broke?

>>64086803
you mean the nation living off EU handouts? that has been bailed out several times by the rest of EU? yes.

>>64086809
Are you confusing them with Greece again?

>>64086803
>>64086809
you can't be both an economic powerhouse and a broke nation at the same time, tardo. just to stay /k/ related, who owns marinette marine? and who's gonna supply the US navy with 50 constellation class frigates?

I think he confused Italy with Greece.

>>64086758 (OP)
>>64086764
turdie detected

no, I'm talking about this shithole of a nation
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ita/italy/debt-to-gdp-ratio
https://www.eunews.it/en/2025/07/21/eu-debt-rises-italys-reaches-137-9-percent-of-gdp/
https://www.politico.eu/article/italy-georgia-meloni-kicks-the-can-on-eurozone-bailout-fund-reform/
https://www.euractiv.com/section/economy-jobs/news/italy-says-it-cant-ratify-eu-bailout-fund-treaty-without-deal-on-new-budget-rules/
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/italys-public-debt-tops-3-trillion-euros-highest-record-2025-01-15/

>>64086809
>you mean the nation living off EU handouts?
Weird...

>>64086838
>italy 137%
>france 111%
>US 121%

>>64086840
Why is Malta even regarded as a country? The Catholic Church should just rearm the Hospitallers, have them kick all the fags and druggies out, and turn the Island into a theocracy.

>>64086823
Nah, he's the semi-local argie from /int/ who keeps going into meltdowns over Italy since they changed their Constitution to stop south americans from having easy access to the Italian passport

>>64086847
Yacht tax haven

>>64086847
>Why is Malta even regarded as a country?
tax haven

>>64086849
Which is funny cause Italian courts have struck down that rule, so it's back to the old procedures now.

>>64086851
Go back turdie

>>64086860
>https://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/eli/id/2025/05/23/25G00082/sg
Absolutely not, if anything it's now in full effect.

>>64086758 (OP)
>european alternatives
even if the FCAS was not dead in the water, what alternatives are there for a STOVL jet in europe? the only european carrier plane currently in production is the rafale m and I don't think you can launch that off a ramp. and even the FCAS was made, would it be ramp rated?

>>64086877
joint carrier with turkey with navalized kaans, hurjets and drones.
Spain decided to go full africa.

>>64086887
their moor blood finally called them back to their masters it seems...

>>64086898
Yup. I kinda could've applauded them for actually sticking to the current "buy european" mantra in the wake of Trump, had they actually chosen to buy european. Instead they decided to go to their mudslimes brothers. As they say, brown doesn't stain brown.

>>64086783
Leaving aside how fucking retarded that is and how we wouldn't gain anything by it. You forget that our cucked citizens are divided in half between left wing cucks who hate war and don't even understand the concept of the military existing in peace times and right wing cucks who think we should self isolate from NATO, the EU and at the same time suck Putin's dick.
Anything regarding our military will be seen as evil and a waste of money. I still remember how the press shouted about the airshow we had for the 100th anniversary of our AF.

Spain has an air force?

>>64086783
Because France, Egypt, Turkey, and the rest of the mediterranean would defeat them? And even if they somehow won any benefits would be massively outweighed by the hit to international reputation and difficulty in holding onto their new acquisitions? Are you 12 years old?

>>64086965
nice picture

>>64086974
I saw Juan Carlos I two months ago in my local harbor here in finland

>>64086980
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/gianlucaconversi/albums/72177720309145909/
>https://youtu.be/JyECkaIZR5g
Thanks, it's not mine. Here you can find more of the event. It was honestly the best airshow I've been to.

Yeah well the spanish are bunch of mudbloods so who cares

.

>>64087120
>Please sir, redeem sukhoi
lel

Carrier Gripen bros... are we back?

>>64086764
>2022

>>64087154
>incident happened in 2022
>reported to the public today
Is that hard to understand?

>>64086781
>$300 million in damage to an aircraft

It doesn't cost that much actually.

looks like France wanting a naval version FCAS isn't such a bad idea after all

>>64087206
Too bad frog arrogance killed the fcas

>>64086758 (OP)
Spain never ordered the F-35. A few months back the same BS headlines about Portugal canceling the F-35 because of blaming Trump even though Portugal never placed a F-35 order. Later a couple of months ago the head of air force Portugal stated there were no alternatives for Portugal but the F-35.

>>64087282
They did the purchase request with the intention of buying 50-80 F-35 without being a member of the JST program.

>>64086783
cause the only war they ever managed to win in their entire history was against fucking Ethiopia? and it took them two tries, the second time they had to use heavy artillery and gas attacks against population centers
they couldn't fucking win against Greece, 80 years ago
today they probably couldnt manage an invasion of Slovenia
lots of good thing are made in Italy, good soldiers are not one of them

>>64086803
Not him but every single major economy in the world that isn't USA or China is either on a knife edge or slowly deteriorating, and it doesn't look good for the 2 giants either
There are plausible calls for a worldwide Great Depression for the next 10-15 years and it's not unprecedented and quite possible

>>64087440
Nice meme argie

>>64086803
they have a deficit of 3% of gdp and almost a 140% debt to gdp with almost no economic growth, mass youth unemployment and emigration, and a rapidly ageing population, yeah, they are pretty fucked

god i hope america sells morocco f35s

>>64087613
As soon as they'll get rid of their rightoid government things will improve.

>>64087684
Import one gorillion brownoids right now! Make the GDP go up! The line must go up! Housing must stay unattainable of the parasite class might lose some of their Scrooge McDuck wealth!

>>64086803
>start war of aggression
>get cut off from EU
>sanctions from everyone else
>already fragile economy implodes
>become global pariah for the next half century making rebuilding near impossible

>>64087317
Portugal did not request permission to buy 50+ F-35.

>>64087803
I'm talking about Spain. Portugal was doing the previous work to accept a F-35.
Modernizing your air force needs years of previous work, mostly politics (Air Force 5.3 program)

>>64087827
an*

>>64086783
>>64087440
>today they probably couldnt manage an invasion of Slovenia
They would get bogged down at the casinos on the border.

>>64086840
the iron curtain should have never fell

Wait a minute, this is just an /int/ thread.

>>64086867
You're brown

>>64086840
Why the fuck is Luxembourg sucking on the teat harder than Spain? They're tiny and rich, what the fuck. Also LOL at Poland, holy shit
At least the fucking Irish are contributing a bit in exchange for being Big Data's whorehouse.

t.europoor

>>64086783
Because reality isn't a map painting game for autistic kids, for starters?

>>64087684
Literally an inversion of reality.
The post WW2 and especially post Michel Foucalt left wing push for anti-family, open borders, population replacement and surrender to a leftist EU superstate is the reason there are no homes available and no jobs for actual native European youth.
Neither the US nor Europe has had a true right wing govt since Franco.
And Franco's Spain was miles more functional than the corrupt govts since his death.
The US and Europe are militarily far weaker than prior to 1960. Why? Because there are no young men or kids, and who wants to fight for a corrupt left-oligarchy that serves foreigners and invites in the enemy?
What changed since 1960 that ruined everything?
Do you think Muslim Africans are gonna save Spain or Europe and preseeve Europe and its people?
Have you even read a history book?
Your precious left wing money printing ovvercentralized dystopian fanatasy ideas ruined Russia in 1-2 generations, which will be replaced by a nightmare islamist state in 100 years. Look there for your future.
You think you cam just plug any race or culture into a nations identity and convince men to fight and die for it. Thats dumb af.
I swear leftists cant do military or civic strategy. And no, Trrump isnt "far right" hes a 1990 US left winger, so stfu before you go there.

>>64089673
There are a lot of EU institutions in Luxembourg and it skews the data.

>>64087716
Exactly. "Derrr its worked well for Rome, Russia, UK,and America derrrrrr"

>>64089686
>no true scotsman
>unrelated ramblings
Yeah cool, the right is the one importing the most shitskins tho.

>>64086803
>Are you honestly telling us that the 8th largest economy in the world, and 3rd largest in Europe, is broke?

Yeah. Their money system is built on debt as money and their industry is gone.

>>64087514
>that isn't USA
Nigga the country is in giga debt

>>64087153
We're back baby!

Lockheed Martin isn’t getting over the kill switch allegations

>>64086764
> callsign DEATH 12
Based af

>>64087120

We have ridiculation fetish

>>64089686
>Literally an inversion of reality.
Not really, laws favoring illegal and legal migration here have been implemented under right wing governments. Why? Because they want to destroy workers rights and the industry lobby keeps nagging politicians for importing hordes of migrants who have no qualms working 12h a day for pennies.
>Have you even read a history book?
Have you?
>Do you think Muslim Africans are gonna save Spain or Europe and preseeve Europe and its people?
>You think you cam just plug any race or culture into a nations identity and convince men to fight and die for it. Thats dumb af.
Strawman. You know nothing of european politics so you have to resort to putting words in my mouth.

>>64087716
>Import one gorillion brownoids right now!
Well, the Holy Mary of the right, Meloni just decided they will import 500k migrants per year on top of the current 256k the muh based capitalism industries already receive. (paying real europeans proper wages is commie shit amirite?)

>>64089895
Even if there's no killswitch you're still fairly reliant on them for pretty critical stuff, so overall US does have a say in whether they allow you to use them or not, even after you've bought them.

>>64087120
Funnily enough Latam countries aside from Venezuela stopped buying russhit, Spain being so dumb as to do this would be hilarious.

>>64086877
>I don't think you can launch that off a ramp.
Rafale M can be launched from a ramp. Tests were successfully conducted years ago for the Indian Navy.

>>64089686
It's funny how whatifalthist pointed out all of this years ago and leftietubers have been attacking him since them.
The main issue as he pointed out is not exactly the left because the old left agreed with nationalism, self-reliance, they were capable to push for "big projects" such as space exploration and giving everyone houses and affordable services.
Instead the new left, which in truth is just the inevitable late stage urban mass managerial elite (da joos as /pol/yps call them) decided to "optimize" society and the economy to the point you made human value irrelevant in a way it would have shamed the likes of Stalin, no kids, no property, easily replaceable by cheap foreigners.
Why do you think they became obsessed with importing indians of late? Most of their population still live in rural areas which mean you even get discount CEOs, "optimizing" human providers.
But they completely fail to understand you cannot make a society, let alone a super-state from objective financial indcators. As someone else pointed out, all these imported discount people have no loyalty to the adopting group, not even the state. Building national defense upon this basis is becoming more and more difficult, just look at all the pro-palestinian demostrations, why are so called christian european citizens supporting Hamas against a westernized country? When did they forget war is a brutal thing which needs you to push into the territory of an entrenched enemy? Would we even have the guts to support a march to Moscow with all it implies if needs be?
By the way, all of this afflicts Russia too, with the additional issue of the widespread corruption and white lies culture, homo sovieticus and the fact they are simply way ahead in the mass managerial curve.

>>64089926
>the industry lobby keeps nagging politicians for importing hordes of migrants who have no qualms working 12h a day for pennies
The thing is that they're not getting industry jobs.
They're opening phone stores, barbershops and convenience stores to scam government subsidies for foreigners who create jobs. Once those locations exist they can "hire" other foreigners who pay to have a legal job in those stores while they work for Uber Eats and Glovo.
The supposed right wing puppetmasters who want hordes of workers can't make these fuckers work a honest job. They'll just fuck off and drive for Uber or Bolt with driving licenses that were obtained by bribing the driving schools. Even the "legitimate" work they do is part of a fucking scam in some way.

>>64090212
>The thing is that they're not getting industry jobs.
they are tho, they are getting imported to work in the fields and in factories. I know because I work in one and salaries have gone down precisely because of this strategy.
>They're opening phone stores, barbershops and convenience stores to scam government subsidies for foreigners who create jobs
lmao those subsidies don't fucking exist. They are for those big international conglomerates who might create thousands of jobs, but routinely just buy a local brand, drain their IP, take the subsidies and then fuck off. The one opening those stores are chinks, sometime egyptians etc they evade taxes etc
>The supposed right wing puppetmasters who want hordes of workers can't make these fuckers work a honest job
That's because of the 500k they'll import those same industries will only hire them for a few months to receive the Government gibs (universal wheter they hired a shitskin or a local) then fire them turning them into illegals who will roam metro stations harassing people. Why can't we send them back? Because the Bossi-Fini law and other laws enacted by right wing populist politicians make it impossible!
Want to turn to the left? Too bad! they want the shitskins into the country because they need fresh votes! Weird how both the left and some right party wants to give citizenship to everyone after high school huh?

>>64089992
forgot about the indian slopeboats.
but those a bit longer than the Juan Carlos right?

>>64089673
Those are our reparations. You broke the country so you pay to fix it, simple as.
t. pole

>>64090381
>We wuz entitled tuz reparashions
Niggers of europe.

>>64090525
>>We wuz entitled tuz reparashions
yes

>>64090304
Juan Carlos I: 230 m
INS Vikrant: 262 m
INS Vikramaditya: 273 m

Considering the results of the experiments conducted for the Indian Navy, I think the Rafale M could take off from the Juan Carlos I, but certainly not with a full load of fuel or weapons.
Spain could also extend the Juan Carlos I deck.

>>64086783
Imho rather than outright war Italy should fuck off Europe and create a Mediterranean union as the leading power
The only country who could possibly oppose this would be France which can easily be bullied into submission and maybe gain a bit of their Med coast out of it

>>64086758 (OP)
If digits then after much deliberation, Spain will decide to go back to the F-35, except they will only procure aircraft assembled in Italy to feel better about themselves (nevermind that components will still come from the US and money will still go to Lockheed Martin)
By the time that they make this decision and receive their first F-35Bs, the F-47, F/A-XX, and the several Chinese 6th gens will all be in operational service and GCAP will be well underway and other F-35 users will have more modern blocks.

>>64093515
Italy doesn't make F35s. They can barely make fiats.

>>64086764
OH NO THE LITERAL UFO ISN'T PERFECT ENOUGH !

>>64094107
>Italy doesn't make F35s
They actually do.

>>64086817
United States has entered the chat.

>>64089933
Did ya read that in rifondazione?

>>64086758 (OP)
With this move, the pedophiles will be safe.

Also Israel, I guess?

>>64086803
All of their money goes right to the Deutsche Bank through their mafia customers.

>>64094225
>imblying im a commie
lol

why would Spain buy planes that can and would (in case of conflict with morocco) be remotely disabled?

>>64094391
>that can and would (in case of conflict with morocco) be remotely disabled?
except they can't be remotely disabled. The killswitch meme is perpetrated by non whites.

>>64086845
One of these countries can literally cleanse the earth of all other people and live in an abundant paradise forev... what the fuck why don't we again?

>>64090272
>>64090212
>>64089926
>>64087684
Out of all the shill angles the one I have the hardest time wrapping my head around is "Leftists will secure our borders"
It's like saying vote in the left to get rid of trannies
The leftist idea of "border security" is "wave literally everyone who shows up in and give them citizenship"

>>64086758 (OP)
Can’t they just milk hand me down Harriers from Italy and the USMC till like 2040?

>>64094837
>Leftists will secure our borders
Where did I say that? Can't you even read?

>>64094837
Imagine being this illiterate

>>64094837
>"wave literally everyone who shows up in and give them citizenship"
The biggest ease in restriction for citizenship here in Italy is being pushed forward by FI (right) FDI (center right) and PD (center left).

If any criticism towards a right wing government that is literally importing hordes of clandestines is labeled as being a "commie" then you're simply too retarded to have a conversation with.
And BTW, the right also created a nice trick to skew the actual statistics for illegal immigrants to favor the Industrials. Big industries say they need 450k new immigrants for X jobs. The government opens a contest where thirdies in their countries can apply for said jobs.

After that they come to Italy legally, the Factory refuses to hire them legally and hires them "in nero" meaning illegally so they don't have to pay their social security benefits and taxes, increasing the financial burden of legally hired people. Those same thirdies are legally clandestines, those jobs that could've gone to a real european are now not available, increasing unenployement rates. But hey, -unrestricted- capitalism is hella cool, trad and based amirite? Any criticism of it means you're a commie! Ignore how it literally goes against all european traditional Christian and historical values.

I'll spell out again that commies only deserve the rope, in case your chipmunk brain already forgot that just because I criticise the right it doesn't mean I endore *same thing but on the left*.

>>64094491
saar theres no killswitch please buy

>>64095028
i accept your defeat, literal indian. How does it feel to be humiliated by your superior neigbor the pakis

>>64086840
So you have no idea of the value of a buffer like Poland, which makes Russia shit itself behind closed doors?

>>64086823
By 2026 Greece will become a net contributor to the EU. We are living in some weird times.

>>64095028
No there isn't. Ignoring even the Bongs and Israeli's have code level access on the F-35, why the FUCK would USA risk ending their entire military exports by activating a kill switch on a product they MADE with about a dozen different countries?

>>64089660
every thread that involves seething about the F-35 is an /int/ thread

>>64095179
>polant stronk
lmaooooo

>>64095211
Only the US and Israel have source level code

>>64086764
What does the B-2 crash have to do with the F-35B??

>>64095300
Right, and that's why accidentally landing a missile there is about the only direct moment of panic out of the Kremlin since the 90s? Do you know they literally slid a note under Putin's door and ran, that's how he found out.

>>64095583
You really need to differentiate between the internal propaganda they make you poles guzzle from reality.
>Do you know they literally slid a note under Putin's door and ran, that's how he found out.
This reads like russians going "did you know Russia has TIGERS?"
You poles have been Europe's playground for your entire history. Go get drunk into a stupor and dream of "poland superpower by 2030"

>>64095086
projecting h-1b actual sar
>>64095211
"security concerns"

>>64095310
The only people who have access to it are Tier 1 contributors (which is only the UK) and Israel (we know why).

>>64095310
The UK has to have source level code because they put their own weapon systems on it.

>>64095728
nope

>>64086983
Well, did you just let him drown?

>>64089673
Just because the people there are rich doesn't mean they contribute anything.

>>64089863
I accept your concession. Refute the argument or don't post.

>>64087162
Motherfucker we always knew it happened, they just published their full findings.

>>64096365
I already did

>>64086783
Because Italy can't even manage Italy much less administer Spain.

>>64086840
The logic of these usually falls down when you get into things like the Dutch saying "oh but we gave the Javanese colony so much".
Germany is investing money to make their own number go up.

>>64097695
that sounds just like cope because your country is a leech

>>64086758 (OP)
Why did Trump let them to say no to that 5% NATO thing and now even to this without any consequences?

>>64098096
Because Trump is a little bitch

>>64098096
Look at a map of where Spain is and ask yourself how much of a fuck they give about Russia.