Thread 64089322

Let's assume that the Einstein–Szilard letter is sent in August, 1938 instead of August, 1939. As a result, work on the atomic bomb project starts a year prior to the start of World War II. Let's also assume that work on the Manhattan Project and WWII as a whole otherwise proceed exactly as they originally did. The Trinity Test goes off without a hitch shortly after D-Day and by August, 1944, Little Boy and Fat Man are ready for use against Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Imperial Japan.

Where and how should the Allies employ the first atomic bombs in this scenario? Drop one on Berlin in an attempt to decapitate the leadership of the Third Reich? Use it in direct support of the Allies' breakout from Normandy? Drop it on an unsuspecting Japanese city as the opening act of the air campaign against the Home Islands? Or use the two bombs in separate theatres to hit show the Axis Powers the length of America's reach?

It would have been a massive waste to use one of the limited number of nukes America was capable of building in the immediate aftermath of Trinity for "tactical" purposes. Even during the Battle of the Bulge, you'd be foolish to waste your trump card of a weapon on an enemy force which your conventional army was perfectly capable of destroying with enough time and resources. The reason nuking Japan was considered the practical solution was because projected casualties for an invasion of the home islands were orders of magnitude greater than anything the Germans inflicted on the US in France/Belgium.

Likewise, America dropping the bomb was as much a show of force to the Soviets as it was a means to hurt the Axis. Why nuke Berlin and make Stalin's path to the Rhine that much easier when victory against Hitler through conventional means was all of a few months out and came with the added bonus of the Western Allies getting to occupy most of Germany?

In all seriousness, we'd probably have just seen things play out very similarly to the way they did in our timeline with Hiroshima/Nagasaki/Kokura getting bombed a year in advance (or as soon as a lone B-29 could safely make the trip) so that Japan would be pushed to surrender that much quicker and the US could pre-empt a Soviet power grab in Asia. Whether Hirohito would be as open to unconditional surrender without the massive fire bombing campaign (which ultimately did more damage than either Fat Man or Little Boy) would be another question.

B-29s weren't operational in Europe. They'd initially planned to deploy them there but the plane's development delays meant by the end of 1943 the USAAF was solely going to use them in the Pacific

So it'd still be dropped on Japan because that was the only theatre with an aircraft capable of delivering the bomb

>>64089393
>fly plane to other place

Wow so hard

But anyways I'd nuke Moscow

>>64089471
It's not logistically simple to relocate an entire bombing group, and the sudden presence of B-29s in Europe would have attracted a lot of attention to what was a critically secret operation. Bombing Japan instead of Germany would have still been preferable to the US because the pieces were in place to support such an operation.

In all likelihood, if the US wanted to drop a nuke on Germany at the time, they would have opted to use Avro Lancasters for simplicity and bomb development would probably have continued along the lines of the original "Thin Man" gun payload rather than the "Fat Man" payload that was optimised for B-29's shorter bomb bay.
However if bomb development still went as it did, the Lancaster would have still been able to carry Fat Man externally in the same B.Mk.I Special configuration used to carry Grand Slam bombs.

Because of B-29s development problems, Lancaster was a serious consideration for the USAAF at the time but wouldn't have the range to carry out Op Centerboard I as-flown by B-29 from Tinian to Hiroshima (it would have had to fly from Okinawa).
But Berlin was certainly within range from England for Lancaster.

>>64089322 (OP)
They legit had plans to nuke Germany. There was even a force of Lancasters trained for this eventual task. So yes Germany would have produced anime.
Probably would have had the RAF being the ones to drop the nuke on Japan if the B-29's were still non operational by time bomb was ready.

If Germany and Japan capitulate in 1944 likely will tell the Soviets to fuck off back to their own borders so a lot of central Europe doesn't get fucked by Communism.
>>64089393
They did deploy a squadron of B-29's in England briefly. Never used them though.

>>64089510
Yeah I feel like you're being a little too anal about the war developing *exactly* the same way. If the US is developing the bomb a year early, they would probably work out the logistics of stationing a B29 squadron in England.

Even if they don't do so until the week of, it's still not an insurmountable difficulty to move some planes. We're not talking about gearing the entire USAAF for a years-long bombing campaign, we're talking one run to drop a bomb. After all, that's exactly what happened with Hiroshima.

Nuke Jerusalem and Beijing. Blame it on the Japs.

Drop the 3rd on Kokura
4th on Kyoto
5th on Osaka
6th somewhere up north
7th somewhere in Kyushu
8th, 9th and 10th on Tokyo if they still don't surrender

Force the Emprah and his family to commit sudoku, their remains thrown at sea in both halves of the Atlantic and the Persian Gulf.

MacArthur becomes President of the Overseas Territory of Japan until he gets booted out of the 50s, gets replaced by Curtis LeMay. Japan becomes "independent" during the late 70s.

>>64089550
Retarded animal timeline

>>64089360
>perfectly capable of destroying with enough time and resources
White men's lives? Found the sniveling jew rat

>>64089550
No one wanted to drop it on Kyoto because everyone liked Koyoto.

>>64089558
>I say that nuking the Germans makes no sense
>I must be a jew rat
>I say that nuking the Germans would have been preferable
>I must be a jew rat

>>64089360
>Why nuke Berlin and make Stalin's path to the Rhine that much easier when victory against Hitler through conventional means was all of a few months out

In August 1945, no one could have realistically known that Nazi Germany would gone within a year.

The upside to nuking Berlin is that it would have immediately removed the biggest barrier to a German surrender (Hitler himself) as well as destroying the nerve centers of the German government's institutions, and this occurring mere weeks after the failure of the July 20 plot means that it's not a forgone conclusion that the frontlines in the West would basically dissolve as the Wehrmacht and Nazi Party organs like the SS start fighting each other and the Western Allies can basically just roll up to the German border without any serious resistance (German troops in the East would likely keep fighting regardless).

Also, use of the atomic bomb against Germany first would mean that Japan could likely be made to surrender without using them at all. They'd take one look at Berlin being vaporized, realize that Tokyo is literally also within range of American aircraft and decide to just cut their losses awhile they're ahead.

>>64089322 (OP)

Nuke Paris and save us from this shitstain of a city

>>64089322 (OP)
>>64089360
For that reason:
Nuke would be used to help in Market Garden, nuking (idk how) the SS-divisions that were missed by the intel, thus helping 6th Airborne hold the Arhnem's Bridge.

Or

Used to help push thru the Siegfried Line

>>64089322 (OP)
The US would have nuked Germany if it had the bomb during the Battle of the Bulge.

>>64089322 (OP)
> Einstein–Szilard letter is sent in August, 1938 instead of August, 1939.
Irrelevant, Tube Alloys was the program that put a date to the first nuke, Manhattan was behind most of the time but the US had far more resources to actually make a nuke.

Berlin is almost certainly going to be target number one. Decapitate Nazi leadership and destroy their logistical hub so that the western front collapses. The division of Germany wasn't decided at that point, so the Allies are going to roll Europe up and save most of it from communism. Japan might peace out when they see what America can do, depends on how internal turmoil goes.

>>64091903

Imagine being a British paratrooper in Arnhem, losing all hope of rescue, only to be greeted by a blinding flash and a giant fucking mushroom-shaped cloud rising in the distance.

>>64089510
Thin Man was abandoned for a reason, anon... and B-29s could have been used over Europe to hit some of the more distant targets and provide "cover" for the Silverplates.

>>64089510
>It's not logistically simple to relocate an entire bombing group

As opposed to Pacific islands in the middle of nowhere?

>>64089322 (OP)
We should have dropped one on the Kremlin .

>>64089360
Honestly we had burned so much of Japan to the ground with fire bombs I don't know if we really needed the nukes

>>64089322 (OP)
they should drop it on Moscow instead of getting played like a fiddle by Bolsheviks and allowing all of Europe to be overtaken by faggotry

>>64089594

I thought Kyoto kept getting taken off the target list specifically because Secretary of War Stimson had honeymooned there.

>>64089322 (OP)
Unlike Japan Germany could have retaliated though. Not with a nuke obviously, but they, like all sides, had shittons of chemical weapons and the means to use them at least against Britain, France and Russia. In history, nobody used them as everyone knew that would bring the other side to use theirs, too. But after a nuclear hit, you could easily see the nazi leadership deciding that it doesn't matter now anymore and giving the order to bring in their chemical stockpiles.

>>64097432
>Unlike Japan Germany could have retaliated though.

With what? The V-series turned out to be mostly be a bust and after 1942, their aircraft couldn't get within sight of the English Coast without being blasted out of the sky. Hence airframe losses for Operation Steinbock surpassed 70%.

The Marianas as a staging ground were only captured in August 1944, it wouldn't be usable for B-29 until several months later.

>>64097718

Couldn't they have mounted an attack out of China given the B-29's range? IIRC the very first B-29 raids on Japan actually did do that.

>>64089512
>Silverplate Lancasters

How would those even have worked? Like, what modifications would they need?

>>64101760
Lancasters as a backup/potential stand-in for the B29 was only mentioned in passing and quietly dropped as an idea in mid-43, both on political and practical grounds

>>64101760
Basically heavily strip down all unnecessary weight and hope for the best. In theory it was possible as a delivery system but the margins were extremely close whether the crew could survive or not.

>>64099679
Would you use your super secret wonder weapon out of territory you don't really control?
China was also cut off by land and sea, they had to fly everything for Operation Matterhorn over the Hump.
If you only have two nukes and you want to use them on the enemy's homeland, it likely would have been more practical to use them in Europe.

>>64097718
Could the Americans have occupied the Chishima islands after liberating the Aleutians?

>>64089322 (OP)
Drop one on Jew York, one on Moscow, one on Chongchink and save Civilization.

>>64097635
Load them into artillery shells, boobytrap civilian areas they are falling back from, stick them on a boat and try and sneak it into a harbor, stick them in a u-boat and try to smuggle them to an American coastal city and unleash them when the wind is right, etc.

>>64094957

/thread

>>64097318
Yes, but also because Kyoto is a very historically and culturally important city to the Japanese and the US didn’t want them to be *too* pissed off.

>>64099679
Japan launched Ichi-Go in part to push B-29s out of ranges where they could hit Japan, ultimately didn’t matter because they got the Marianas but between operating at the very edge of the B-29’s range the nips being able to still wage an offensive that late in the game and the Stilwell civil war shitshow I doubt they’d risk it

>>64089471
>But anyways I'd nuke Moscow
Zased.

>>64089322 (OP)

I imagine first use would be in Europe and against a target in Germany specifically, such as Berlin or the Ruhr Valley area. Berlin could decapitate Nazi leadership and cripple German government institutions. The Ruhr would cause a massive slowdown in German military production, especially after radiation sickness began to set in among the survivors and you had Nazi authorities likely ordering a quarantine until they figure out whether it's a contagious disease they're dealing with.

>>64107300
Why not hit a city like Dresden that wasn't already half destroyed? That way you can get better measurements for blast damage.
With Japan they also picked targets like Hiroshima, Kokura, Nagasaki and Niigata for that reason.

>>64095073
Hirohito bluffed himself into thinking that we really did have hundreds of nukes ready to go, and that he was about to lose every city of note within a space of a few weeks, no invasion required. And the regime's internal police had warned that if half the population of the Home Islands were to die, enough of the other half might revolt, kill him, and (potentially even worse) destroy the dynasty. He took his golden parachute (the US needed him alive because he was the only one who could order a general surrender and expect to have it obeyed) and jumped ship (and almost got overthrown by some of the generals, but that's another story).

>>64107738
The timeline from the Japanese national archives shows the news of the Manchurian invasion arriving between news of the Niroshima and Nagasaki bombings is what tipped opinions inside the Japanese government. The hardliners had been depending on Russia to secure their terms after the decisive battle fantasy, while the realists considered America a much better nation to surrender to than Russia.

The nukes were a face-saving excuse for surrender in front of the domestic population.

>>64107759
Oh, *that* again.

hypothetical threads are always shit
no exceptions

>>64110883

But what if they weren't?

>>64107761
>I cant handle truth, USA USA USA

>>64089322 (OP)
>by August, 1944, Little Boy and Fat Man are ready for use against Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Imperial Japan.

The bombs might be ready. But by August 44 the Silverplate B29 was still in its testing phase. It wasn't before mid-october that the USAAF got the first 3 ones but they lacked lots of stuff the later ones (that were actually used) had.

>>64111311
What about the original delivery via boat?
Could you rig a sub to land a bomb in Niigata or Nagasaki and sail away before it explodes?

>>64107759
>We can totally handle ONE insurmountably mighty global superpower that's poised to invade our sacred homeland... but TWO unassailably powerful enemies? That's over the line for me!
>What's that? One of them has discovered the ability to rend the physical fabric of matter and unleash energies which can vaporize our cities in a single instant with no threat to their own soldiers? Do not bother me with such trivialities or I shall order you to seppuku!

You'd be reading
>Furthermore, the enemy has begun to employ a new and cruel bomb, causing immense and indiscriminate destruction, the extent of which is beyond all estimation. Should we continue to fight, not only would it result in the ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but it would also lead to the total extinction of human civilization.
approximately a year earlier
a bit earlier.

The situation in Germany was already on track. The situation in Japan was more questionable. We weren't on conquering large tracts of the Japanese empire at that time. It remains the target more in need of the results of wonderwaffles.

>>64089322 (OP)
Hold off and keep producing them as fast as possible as a insurance weapon incase the soviets decide to occupy the lands they "liberated" and double cross the allies. Operation Unthinkable might actually be possible if they had a year of bomb production ahead of what they had irl.

>>64111361
UK did have a mega torpedo in development that in theory could have delivered a nuclear payload. Still would run into the same problem that the bomb would be ready before the delivery system is complete.

>>64111539
If the European axis powers had surrendered in mid 1944, would the Soviets still have been in a position to strongarm Eastern Europe?

>>64111254
>Stalin numbah one!

>>64111892
Hard to say; FDR was busy giving Uncle Joe everything he asked for, and his cabinet was full of commies, so at any point after Yalta, Stalin probably still gets the entire east.

>>64111892

The Soviets would almost certainly have demanded that either a compensatory right to occupy part of Germany or that countries surrounding them like Poland be forcibly demilitarized similar to Finland.

>>64111361
>What about the original delivery via boat?

They actually wanted to do that?

>>64089360
It was a massive waste not to use it on Moscow without warning, then Japan.

>>64105454
It's the tactically correct move based on their initial alliance.

>>64089612
Evidence suggests...

>>64092503
Actual Timeline
Pre-war groundwork

1938 (Dec) – Nuclear fission is discovered in Germany by Hahn & Strassmann.

1939 (Aug) – Einstein–Szilard letter sent to FDR.

1939 (Oct) – FDR authorizes a slow, low-priority U.S. uranium research program (not yet the Manhattan Project).

British Tube Alloys

March 1940 – Frisch–Peierls memorandum in Britain calculates that only a small amount of U-235 (~1 kg, later refined to ~10 kg) could make a bomb, and it was feasible in wartime.

Summer 1941 – MAUD Committee report concludes an atomic bomb is practically possible within the war’s timeframe. This is the moment the “realistic timetable” claim is referring to — it’s the first credible technical and logistical estimate.

Late 1941 – Tube Alloys formally established as the British nuclear weapons project.

Manhattan Project

1940–41 – U.S. scientists are working slowly, scattered in universities, and not fully convinced a wartime bomb is achievable.

Oct 1941 – British MAUD report sent to the U.S., essentially jolting the Americans awake.

Dec 7, 1941 – Pearl Harbor. U.S. enters WWII.

Dec 1941 – U.S. program ramps up; Vannevar Bush pushes for full-scale bomb development.

Aug 1942 – Manhattan Project officially launched.

July 1945 – Trinity test (first atomic explosion).

>>64118076
>This new phenomenon would also lead to the construction of bombs, and it is conceivable – though much less certain – that extremely powerful bombs of a new type may thus be constructed. A single bomb of this type, carried by boat and exploded in a port, might very well destroy the whole port together with some of the surrounding territory. However, such bombs might very well prove to be too heavy for transportation by air.

>>64118102
Still fast compared to the German bomb.

>>64119116
>Hellburners but with nuclear fission

>>64119314

Germans didn't even have an actual working reactor by the time the war ended.

>Nagasaki or Kyoto get nuked one year earlier
>Germany accelerates its own program
>Berlin nuked in winter of '44
>Doenitz assumes power and surrenders to Britain
>Operation Unthinkable kicks off in spring of '45, Moscow and St. Petersburg are reduced to cinders
>Soviet forces cling to every bit of land while the US nukes their rear areas and supply lines
>USSR capitulates in winter of '46, by which time combined US/German/British forces have reached the Ural mountains
>somehow Budapest got nuked three times in the confusion
a man can dream

>>64124812
>Doenitz assumes power and surrenders to Britain

And what about the United States?

>>64118102
>1938 (Dec) – Nuclear fission is discovered in Germany by Hahn & Strassmann.

It still boggles the mind how the Germans completely failed to take advantage of this despite being the first ones to figure it out. Even if they couldn't build a bomb, a working reactor would have drastically cut down on their coal and oil expenditures.

>>64127920
>a working reactor would have drastically cut down on their coal and oil expenditures.
With what fucking money?

>>64089322 (OP)
Moscow.

>>64127920
Doesn't help when half of your scientists fled the country and actively work for your enemies.
Rejecting major science breakthroughs in favour of political ideology also played a part.

>>64101760
Lancasters could carry atomic weapons without needing to do many modifications. Their bomb bays were big enough and their carrying capacity was probably the best of any bomber in the war (They could carry Grand Slam, something the B29 couldn't and Grand Slam was actually heavier than either of the nukes used)

>>64089510
> thin man
so I read the wikiarticle again and apparently thin man concept was dropped because they would have required an even longer barrel and they didn't have an aircfraft for it

how long would the barrel have needed to be? I can't imagine them going
> nah let's ditch this
just because of a couple feet

>>64127935
>With what fucking money?

The chump change they shook down from these kids obviously.

>>64127938

True

>>64089322 (OP)
They would not have had Feynman if it started a year earlier, and without him, they wouldn't have had the success they had.

>>64089322 (OP)
drop it on warsaw to intimidate the soviets

>>64089512
>There was even a force of Lancasters trained for this eventual task.
This was never a plan at any point and the United States would never hand over weapons to the British and the RAF would never have been used in an atomic attack. Mark Felton lied to you, as he often does.

>>64135168
>Warsaw is already a fucking burnt out husk due to Operation Tempest
>ziggers can't tell the difference

>>64124812
Why Budapest? :(

>>64135891
Felton is full of shit but the Lancaster does get referenced as a delivery system for the thin man in the documents. In theory it could drop the fat man as well. What made it lose out to the B-29 is range and speed over anything else.

>>64136639
>does get referenced as a delivery system for the thin man
It was considered during a single conversation in which it was immediately dismissed. The US didn't even want Lancasters in the Pacific in general and none made it to the theater during the war. There was literally never any technical consideration for using the Lancaster for the atomic bombing aside from the brief acknowledgement that the bombs would probably physically fit in the bomb bay.

>>64089322 (OP)
Not much to start with. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are still the only cities to be nuked but after the war has ended, Operation Unthinkable happens with the US threatening to nuke the USSR if they don't pull back to their old borders. Since the US had more time they have more nukes and Truman is basically king of the world for the better part of a decade.

>>64136639
>Felton is full of shit

Huh?

>>64107738
What a cucked institution. I like japan, but it just baffles my mind that they restored Meji, and would solely listen to some 30 year old NEET for a general surrender. I guess the same is probably the case for N. Korea.

>>64107738
>>64107759

Didn't the Japanese ironically have a better understanding of nuclear physics at the time than Germany did?

>>64141233
Well they did get first hand experience when two examples were dropped on them?

>>64141233
There were some scientists left in Germany that had decent understanding of fission and chain reactions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Epsilon
What's possible is that Japan had a more clandestine project and support for their scientists.

>>64135168

Why Warsaw?

>>64135168
>>64138569

Jews would have then given it to the soviet union sooner.
Jews always give the best tech to rivals, and the soviet union was a jewish project dating back to the Bolsheviks.
Communism was mainly created and initialy supported by jews.
With so many jews with access to the project and technology creating it sooner just means the soviets get it sooner, maybe even before the usa has fully secured western europe.

Mcarthyism was based on real issues because as jews immigrated to the usa in mass they often brought communist sympathy with them (even as they fled the horrors it created.)

Jews gave nukes to the soviets, ballistic missile tech to china, and those techs are still the biggest threat to the usa today. Along with other tech shared with rivals over the years.

>>64141306

true

>>64127920

Kept chasing away Jewish scientists

>>64135168

why

>>64089550

Kyoto got taken off the target list by direct order of the Secretary of State

>>64102425
>provoking Operation Vegetarian

>>64118102

Could the US have developed the atom bomb on its own without the prerequisite work done by the British?

>>64155297
>provoking
Operation Vegetarian was already approved and in motion.
Only reason why the bongs didn't kill half of Europe with anthrax was that the process of making all the spore cakes took to long, and by the time they had an ample supply, D-day had already happened and they didn't want to infect their own troops.

>>64155297
>>64157841
>operation vegetarian
>be British
>oi oiv got a great idea
>oh, what do nigel?
>lets pollute Europe with a contagious, lethal, and long lasting bioweapon!
>the same Europe our and the Americans are in?
>yes?
>BRILLIANT DO IT NOW
Holy fuck why are the British such evil retards?

this is Fat Man's blast centered on the fuhrer bunker. They definitely would not have that much accuracy. Would this be enough damage?

>>64118083
I like the cut of your jib

>>64089322 (OP)
that'd just encourage hitler's generals to plan his assassination more carefully

>>64089471

based

>>64127938
>>64148332
The Jewish Physics meme really didn't achieve much because it didn't get much institutional support.
Germany was just limited by resources and capital, compared to the US. Same as the British or the Japanese. Maybe they had slightly worse talent than America, but it was mostly a problem of resources.

>>64160446

They massively overestimated how much material was required to make a bomb

>>64162990
>>64160446
They also dismissed graphite as a moderator due to boron impurities in their graphite samples. And the access to heavy water from Norway was sabotaged.

>>64163299
>During the second World War, the company Fosfatbolaget in Ljungaverk, Sweden, produced 2,300 liters per year of heavy water. The heavy water was then sold both to Germany and to the Manhattan Project for the price of 1.40 SEK per gram of heavy water.

>>64163785
How the fuck do you shit heavy water from sweden to the US mid-war?

>>64163802
By ship.
SKF also sold ball bearings to all sides.

>>64089322 (OP)
Drop one on New York and the other on Jerusalem.

>>64135891
>the United States would never hand over weapons to the British
At the time it was still considered a joint project, the US fucked the Brits over AFTERWARDS.

>>64163802

Neutral shipping

>>64163982
No, that was the plan all along. The state department was pretty clear to itself about that.

>>64163841

IIRC the Allies actually tried literally buying up Sweden's supply of them to prevent Germany from having access to it.

>>64158006
Victory by any means.

>>64089322 (OP)
The Germans hear about it and redirect all V-2 efforts to Wasserfall in an attempt to save their cities.
>>64097635
>With what?
Sarin? Tabun?

>>64169037
There's no delivery vehicle for nerve agents, especially if you wanted to use them strategically.

>>64127938
The damage caused to the German nuclear program by the exile of jewish physicists is overrated. Read about the G-series experiments. The German nuclear program was (slightly) more advanced than commonly thought, "Forgotten Creators" has some examples (but a lot of bullshit too)

>>64169075
They could have definitely rigged something decent if we go by hypotheticals.

>>64169076
>The damage caused to the German nuclear program by the exile of jewish physicists is overrated.
Jewish scientists that fled Europe were key contributors to the Manhattan Project, the Hungarian Martians first and foremost.
Imagine if Fermi, Bethe, Teller, Neumann, Szilard etc had worked for the Axis.

>>64169122
The Germans had equally good physicists.

>>64169128
There were good native American scientists, Jewish and not Jewish, but the Martians gave them the edge needed.

>>64091903
Stupid take. There wasn't even a doctrinal concept for tactical use at the time, the nuke was viewed as a strategic weapon used in strategic bombing. And you're not nuking a whole division, let alone several, with a 10-15 kiloton bomb. Normal field dispersal means you're at best taking a big chunk out of a regiment.

>>64169137
What gave the US the edge they needed was not having their industrial apparatus genocide bombed, nearly infinite funding and access to Congo uranium.

>>64169128
The problem is when double digit percentages of the guys you need to do math by hand up and leave, you lose your ability to develop things as quickly. If the Nazis wanted the bomb they should have heavily subsidized their nuclear research programs pre war.

>>64169149
Also not having large chunks of your research team bail due to ethnoreligious discrimination helps.

>>64169160
That's insignificant compared to having an intact industrial base. Even if the Germans had the plans, they couldn't come up with the plutonium.

>>64169368
Would Liese Meitner and Otto Frisch have publicized the discovery of fission if they hadn't been in exile in Denmark/Sweden in 1938?

>>64169385

Probably not

>>64089322 (OP)
>Gehlen negotiations in Switzerland gifted U-23?forgot] with its deceived Jap officers (comitted sudoku in protest) and refined Euranium, plans and other equipment nominally en route to Japan (nearly merk'd by Canadian destroyer)-- enough to advance the Manhattan Project timetable (penetrated by many Soviet Spies) by at least half a year at minimum
>Maximalist Jap Faction in Imperial Cabinet insisted on calling the 3rd nuke bluff under the (correct) assumption that they could not possibly have the fuel for a third (expended in first test), going as far as to suspect a dirty-thermobaric (Krauts were using coal-dust versions on the Eastern Front to great effect)

Take it from Iceland to Sweden, across the border to Finland, and drop it on Moscow with a suicide pilot - Dr. Strangeglove style - during a scheduled phone conference with both FDR and Churchill to guarantee Stalin was in Moscow at the time.

>>64090476
>Why nuke Berlin and make Stalin's path to the Rhine that much easier

Because the entire FDR cabinet, government and Manhattan Project was penetrated by Soviet Agents thanks to British Elite Capture. The second best option was dropping the nuke on Washington to remove compromised leadership in one clean sweep, and the third best option would be a nuclear 'accident' in the Manhattan Project facility itself to forestall Nuclear Proliferation to Moscow, Red Beijing, and Third World Abrahamist Theocracy death cults.

>>64158421

The plot had already failed by August '44

>>64163785
This seems like a rather unknown and well hidden historical fact

>>64158386
As a Bavarian I would welcome this event.

>>64158386
They probs coulda got it in the green ring

>>64089322 (OP)
Personally I would drop one on Germany, one on Japan. Wasting one on Italy would've been retarded, they were already toast. The biggest problem with a decapitation strike is figuring out where Hitler is at the time and making sure the bomb would actually get him. If the man survived a nuke (even if he would have died due to radiation later) it would have undoubtedly cranked his ego to 9001. The confusion in the aftermath may still cause suitable internal fuckery though. The Japanese strike should probably still whack a major military port city servicing the IJN.

>>64090476
>They'd take one look at Berlin being vaporized
Quick reminder that we had to nuke them twice. A major German city getting wasted the same day as a major Japanese city might still get the same message across though.

>>64089322 (OP)
considering we only had the capability of making 2 after the trinity test like that was all the material we'd scrounged was for the 3 bombs, and the Japanese didn't surrender after the first one, using one on Germany would have resulted in a much more bloody and costly invasion of Japan, and the Soviets would have not only gotten half of Europe for 40 years, but half of Japan and a good chunk of China as well.

>>64171970
>I'm getting nuked for your sake funny mustashe man!
>*shoots him in the head*
I think they'd just drop the refined methods

>>64140209
Better be thankful for it, a lot of americans would have been mulched had operation Downfall happened.

>>64173384

A lot of Japanese too

>>64089322 (OP)

The bomb would most likely be deployed against Germany in accordance with the Europe First policy. As for targets? Well using them against any occupied European city would be a PR disaster even if it was militarily useful so that basically rules out supporting the Normandy Landings. Maybe targets within Germany proper such as Dresden, the Ruhr Valley, or Berlin itself.

>>64089360
Yeah it wasn't until 1949 when the developed the Mark 4.

>>64127920
> working reactor

nah
also fixed:

> It still boggles the mind how the (((Germans))) completely failed to take advantage of this despite being the first ones to figure it out.

>>64178713

Don't you need reactors to make the material for bombs?

>>64180218
You can just enrich natural Uranium like the Little Boy device. Though producing Plutonium seems preferable.

>>64180361

Only Trinity and the Little Boy series used uranium IIRC, every bomb after that (at least in the American stockpile) used plutonium

>>64182297
Trinity was Plutonium, hence why they bothered to test it in the first place. They were fully convinced the Uranium gun type would work.