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Thread 64091562

231 posts 88 images /k/
Anonymous No.64091562 >>64091583 >>64091681 >>64092095 >>64094074 >>64094683 >>64095198 >>64095219 >>64097589 >>64107812 >>64109950
Has any substantial amount of these pieces of shit been issued yet?
>inb4 goes the way of the SCAR and gets deserviced in a year, replaced by M4/416
Anonymous No.64091578 >>64091591 >>64091681 >>64094269 >>64095826 >>64095959 >>64097661 >>64099442 >>64099749 >>64100840 >>64104977 >>64104983 >>64105673 >>64106535
>battle rifle fags immediately about-face and become battle rifle haters the moment sig wins
Anonymous No.64091583 >>64091590
>>64091562 (OP)
All I see when I see this pic is stuff that is going to break in fucking middle-of-nowhere Africa, ME, SE Asia etc
Anonymous No.64091590 >>64091674
>>64091583
is it going to break any faster than the other delciate optical equipment our military has used for decades?
Anonymous No.64091591 >>64091646 >>64092380 >>64107686
>>64091578
cope
Anonymous No.64091646 >>64091664 >>64097556 >>64097966
>>64091591
contextless, cropped photos do nothing to me
Anonymous No.64091663 >>64091675 >>64092162 >>64092291 >>64094162 >>64097657
What is the point of having a battle rifle caliber with a weak material?
AK 4 will easily out perform this.

And also a large optic and silencer? What is the reason for this, a regular soldier doesn't need this. this is for snipers.

The stock is also too small.
Anonymous No.64091664
>>64091646
shoot yourself with your P320
Anonymous No.64091674 >>64091681 >>64094661
>>64091590
yes
Anonymous No.64091675 >>64091691
>>64091663
>with a weak material?

what
Anonymous No.64091681 >>64099367
>>64091562 (OP)
>>64091674
Oh man, the Army blew it so bad. How was this even possible? They legitimately snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Fuck.
>>64091578
Most of /k/ aren't battle rifle fags.
Anonymous No.64091691 >>64091718 >>64095342
>>64091675

Plastic. I don't understand why manufacturers
constantly want plastic parts, when fiberglass and metal have proven to be better.
Anonymous No.64091718 >>64092410
>>64091691
Plastic is perfect, and is to today what iron was to the late iron age. It's perfect for just about everything, its only problems are that it can't be used for precision instruments and can't take high stresses (in most cases).
Anonymous No.64092095 >>64105643
>>64091562 (OP)
Yes anon the M7 is in full rate production and have been issued to several units.
Anonymous No.64092162
>>64091663
>And also a large optic and silencer? What is the reason for this, a regular soldier doesn't need this. this is for snipers.
Shut the fuck up neverserved
Anonymous No.64092291
>>64091663
Learn english and lurk for a few years before posting again faggot
Anonymous No.64092380 >>64092421 >>64093939 >>64094849 >>64097966
>>64091591
>this bullshit again
Light diffracts through slits. Get feeler gauges, post measurement.
Anonymous No.64092410 >>64094119 >>64094666
>>64091718
Are we at the apex of polymer development, or will we ever get polymers with the material properties of something like aluminum?

Polymer has been a godsend for parts like grips, stocks, handguards that just need to be there but don’t bear any pressure or (too much) load.
Anonymous No.64092421
>>64092380
>every other gun is diffraction proof!
you aren't even pretending to have an argument here
Anonymous No.64093939 >>64097579
>>64092380
Nigger, look at the size of that fucking gap, not even poverty ARs get that sloppy.
Anonymous No.64093968 >>64094101
its completely fair at this point to assume a portion of the sig-haters ARE just anti-america posters with how ignorant they are.
Anonymous No.64094074 >>64094109 >>64101988
>>64091562 (OP)
My rebuttal is thus.
Anonymous No.64094101
>>64093968
yes sir very true us cohen-rajapreet are the true american patriots
Anonymous No.64094109 >>64097744
>>64094074
why do you want your flip-up iron sight to be right next to the scalding hot gas block?
Anonymous No.64094119 >>64095187 >>64097583
>>64092410
As a rule, we aren't the apex of the development of anything. It's a beautiful idea.
Stuff like 2DPA-1 and nanocomposite polymers are coming out all the time, but the industry seems to be focused on biodegradable plastics, which are reasonable but won't be terribly useful until China is nuked.
>64093968
2/8 b8
Anonymous No.64094162
>>64091663
>AK 4
>reddit spacing
>And also a large optic and silencer? What is the reason for this, a regular soldier doesn't need this. this is for snipers.
fucking no gunz yuros
magnified optics like the acog have proven to greatly enhance hit probability and the suppressor is because the army doesn't want to have to keep paying out disability for deaf soldiers and because signature reduction reduces the chance someone gets shot back, ie less flash and harder to id exactly where the noise came from.
Anonymous No.64094269
>>64091578
not a true battle rifle
Anonymous No.64094278 >>64095950
Anonymous No.64094661 >>64094930 >>64107769
>>64091674
I remember the M16 having a few problems when it first came out.
Anonymous No.64094666 >>64095187
>>64092410
Carbon fiber is the GOAT, but too expensive for what the bean-counters want
Anonymous No.64094683 >>64095562 >>64097704
>>64091562 (OP)
>13 inch battle rifle
>13 inch battle rifle with pissin hot sig saar cum blast ammo
>13 inch battle rifle with pissin hot sig saar cum blast ammo and a suppressor

Literally just give it 18 inches, same overall length, same muzzle velocity for less powder, less wear and tear, less muzzle blast TBI necessitating a fucking suppresor in the first place
Anonymous No.64094849
>>64092380
Yea no that looks pretty bad.
I wouldn't give any manufacturer the benefit of the doubt and especially not fucking Sig after seeing the 320 slide wiggle.
Anonymous No.64094930 >>64097847
>>64094661
Completely different, the M16 was an actual doctrinal step forward, and the field testing which had been done with it under Project AGILE had it come away with virtually only glowing reviews, soldiers loved the fuck out of the AR15 after getting to use it in real combat.

The problems come with starting up production of this new cartridge, the 5.56x45mm. At the time, this cartridge was only specced for a high grade sporting powder which just was not being manufactured in the quantities that a military was looking to use, thus why the powder was substituted.
Not doing enough testing in turn, this turned out to cause timing problems and wear problems, which are exacerbated by the thought that it would not be necessary to chrome line the barrel. There's two particularly important changes the M16A1 does among many, which fixes this, and that's making the recoil buffer heavier so that dwell time and cyclic rate is normalized, and the other is to chrome the barrel, which primarily makes it so casings can virtually not stick in the chamber anymore. Existing M16s have their buffers and barrels replaced whenever thy come back to the armory to be made as reliable.
Presto, the M16A1 isn't just as good and beloved as the AR15 was in Project AGILE's testing, it's even better.

Meanwhile, the XM7 is NOT liked by soldiers testing it in the field, they fucking HATE it and think it's pointless, calling it out as "doctrinally outdated." The rifle is bigger and heavier, you can't carry as much ammo so they keep running out in field exercises, they never find themselves making use out of its extended range, and there's problems with accuracy and wear.
The XM250 isn't faring better, being worse than both the M240B and the M249.
Anonymous No.64095187 >>64095355
>>64094666
Ugh, I know, I wish everything could be made of CF. I have a CF Handguard and stock and I giggled when I picked it up out the box when it first arrived. Like if I let go, it’s gonna float away.

>>64094119
>we aren’t at the apex of the developement of anything

Picrel
Anonymous No.64095198 >>64095242 >>64095415 >>64095465 >>64095536 >>64096033 >>64099067 >>64103072 >>64107808
>>64091562 (OP)
Did the XM7 ever solve this tactical problem in pic related? aka 800 meters effective range against infantry targets?
Anonymous No.64095219
>>64091562 (OP)
Why would they adopt that instead of the PSA 11.5" Carbine-Length 5.56 1/7 Phosphate 10.5" Lightweight M-Lok Classic HAR-15 Pistol, ODG
Anonymous No.64095242 >>64095611 >>64096033
>>64095198
XM7 and XM250 absolutely trump SVD and PKM in every metric.
Anonymous No.64095342
>>64091691
>he doesn’t know that fiberglass parts are mostly plastic
Anonymous No.64095355
>>64095187
>Like if I let go, it’s gonna float away.
I am literally going to fantasize about this while masturbating.
Anonymous No.64095415
>>64095198
now this is the /k/ind of autism I come here for
Bless you anon
Anonymous No.64095465 >>64095628
>>64095198
How do FPVs fit in this picture?

BTW when i saw around 2006-2008 first FPV drone videos popping up on YouTube first thought i had was /k/ thought
>just tie grenade to this bitch and fun begins!
Damn me i didn't write down my predictions on some social media so i could flex in the year 2025 how smart i was.
Anonymous No.64095536 >>64095597 >>64095605 >>64095628 >>64107808
>>64095198
Didn't this range disadvantage problem only exist because we intentionally put our troops downhill of the enemy in Afghanistan? The SVD having anywhere close to that effective range and the PKP significantly outranging the M240 sounds like utter horseshit, also their own graph shows that the US has an advantage in automatic firepower with the third MG.
Anonymous No.64095562 >>64097704
>>64094683
>, less muzzle blast TBI necessitating a fucking suppresor in the first place
All NGSW contestants required suppressor regardless of barrel length.
Anonymous No.64095597 >>64095609
>>64095536
>Didn't this range disadvantage problem only exist because we intentionally put our troops downhill of the enemy in Afghanistan
Yes
This slide is from a pdf made by Jim Schatz. The man that wants to find a technical solution (that involve replacing 556) to tactical problems. A tactical problem that was solved by the XM25 smart grenade launcher
Anonymous No.64095605 >>64099962
>>64095536
entire boondoggle about long range fights was moot anyway.
these firefights had extremely low lethality for both sides. Its soldiers hitting ground hiding in ditchess and making fun game of potshots at eachother without any results
in Afghanistan IED has much larger proportion of casualties than in Iraq ("Juba sniping" short range inside towns could actually hit something in Iraq unlike in Afgainstan)
Anonymous No.64095609 >>64095638 >>64107776
>>64095597
>XM25 smart grenade launcher
>not FPV drone
boomer please
Anonymous No.64095611
>>64095242
And they're still not useful because the PK guy will have you pinned down by the time you manage to spot him over the curvature of the Earth and the SVD guy will have superior cover and concealment. You'll need fire support with or without a battle rifle.
Anonymous No.64095613 >>64095635
The whole gun is a compromise to meet requirements that wouldn't compromise and had no bearing on any realistic military scenario.
Anonymous No.64095628 >>64095674
>>64095536
Yes, plus banning the normal western peer-war response of spamming artillery or mortar fire into every tic.
Also it's an apples to oranges graph. He's comparing personal rifles to GPMGs on bipods. A M240 vs a PKM is the same range on bipod, ormore effective range for the US with the M240 on tripod.

>>64095465
Switchblades were used in Afghanistan circa 2010 back when they were called LMAMS. It went great. Hitting PKM teams across a valley is what they were designed for.
Anonymous No.64095635 >>64095664
>>64095613
>and had no bearing on any realistic military scenario.
Its boomer "solution" for "Afghanistan problem"

It doesn't solve "Afghanistan problem"
FPV solves it 9000 times better
US fled Afghanistan anyway.
Anonymous No.64095638 >>64095644 >>64095724
>>64095609
Grenade launchers are cooler.
Anonymous No.64095644 >>64095698
>>64095638
Grenade launchers don't have the range for that scenario.
Anonymous No.64095664
>>64095635
Well that's it
>this happened in Afganistan so it'll happen in the next war
Forgetting Afganistan wasn't a real war, there's a real war in Ukraine that saw more deaths than Iraq and Afganistan saw over a decade and a half in a couple of weeks.
And while you don't want to assume the next war will look like a slavic slap fight, nothing we've seen there invalidates any small arms doctrine we currently use.
Anonymous No.64095674
>>64095628
>Switchblades were used in Afghanistan circa 2010 back when they were called LMAMS. It went great. Hitting PKM teams across a valley is what they were designed for.
Switchblades were designed within project Anubis by SOF command.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140713082213/https://www.wired.com/2010/01/killer-micro-drone/
As assassination tool for overwatch SOF teams.
It has potential for general infantry use but wasn't designed for infantry and never went mainstream. Ukraine is a country who first produced million FPV drones. Switchblade production remained n thousands.
USA had potential to start posting on liveleak looney toons FPV videos staring Taliban in 2008... but American boomers blew it.
>will make battle rifle instead!
>*facepalm*
Anonymous No.64095698 >>64095763 >>64095785
>>64095644
For 800 meters? Maybe it is a bit short

https://ndia.dtic.mil/wp-content/uploads/2011/smallarms/Thursday12439Stucki.pdf
This list it having a range out to 600 meters against enemy soldiers in defilade. Now you have to consider the XM 25 is from 2011 (14 years ago). All they had do was increase the range and fix some of the ammuniton reliabilty and you have solved the afghan problem of a pkm doing harassing fire from 800 meters.
Anonymous No.64095724
>>64095638
Man, the XM25 looked so cool. It's a shame the PGS won't be a bullpup.
Anonymous No.64095763
>>64095698
Send FPV drones against pkm doing harassing fire from 800 meters.
No really imagine FPV drones going against Taliban like they go against ziggers. Taliban would be doing what?
https://www.currykitten.co.uk/the-history-of-fpv/
Anonymous No.64095785
>>64095698
800 meters wasn't a problem. It was an issue at 1km+. Within 600-800m was close enough for US troops to maneuver against it. It was also within range for the Carl Gustav. XM25 kill radius is also too small at that range.
Anonymous No.64095826 >>64095841
>>64091578
>BR chads want GOOD battle rifles and not Sigslop
Wow, shocking.
Anonymous No.64095841 >>64095867 >>64095950 >>64096054 >>64105017
>>64095826
why is the spear bad? reply without using hyperbole or feels.
Anonymous No.64095867 >>64095908
>>64095841
4 moa
Anonymous No.64095908 >>64095933
>>64095867
according to whom? i look online and see sub-moa to 1.5
Anonymous No.64095933 >>64095934
>>64095908
Army Sergeant report last June
Anonymous No.64095934 >>64095953
>>64095933
one guy last year huh? its not fucking secret tech, you can buy them. there are plenty of reviews online.
Anonymous No.64095950 >>64095978 >>64105690
>>64095841
2000 round barrel life
>>64094278
Anonymous No.64095953
>>64095934
Nobody willingly buys the Sig Spear in the civilian sector
Anonymous No.64095959 >>64095970
>>64091578
Where are these battle rifle fags, and why are they retarded?
Anonymous No.64095970 >>64097057
>>64095959
the people who made threads wishing we'd adopt one for years
Anonymous No.64095978 >>64096088
>>64095950
2k rounds of the high power loads or training?
Anonymous No.64096033
>>64095198
This wasn't an actual problem in practice.

>>64095242
Sadly, they don't. Once the XM7 has had its bore raped out (which happens very quickly) it will shoot looser groups than the SVD, which is an astonishing thing to say, but it's true, and the XM250 struggles its way through belts, while the PKM keeps trucking and trucking.
Anonymous No.64096054 >>64097599 >>64100604
>>64095841
Sig quality control and a barrel that's absolutely clapped out after only 2000rds total, leading to groups so loose that they would make a last ditch WW2 weapon blush.
If you want a full power infantry rifle, the Spear is unironically worse at being one than an old FAL, G3, or M14, so the Spear isn't just doctrinally obsolete, it'd also be really fucking terrible at the older kind of doctrine of such rifles.
Anonymous No.64096088 >>64097049
>>64095978
That's not clear, but realistically, a comparable cartridge like .243 Win, .270 Rem, or 6.5mm Sneed, is expected to have its barrel last for about 5000rds, and that's for hunting rifles and target rifles which shoot low and slow volumes, they take their time to get there because they're never used for rapid fire. Firing 20rds of that stuff typically takes a little while.

The XM7 and XM250 are an infantry combat rifle and a support weapon respectively, thus they are expected to actually lay down a lot of fire pretty often, even if you AREN'T feeding them ammo loaded for 80000psi or 70000psi, you're gonna cut into that barrel life pretty quickly when you're actually emptying a 20rd magazine in less than a minute, and even more when you're having a pair of XM250s 'talking' their repeating suppressive fire full-auto bursts.
There's zero chance that these barrels are able to live for the normal 5000rds for this style of cartridge even with the training ammo, the high pressure ammo is just making things much worse.
Anonymous No.64097049 >>64097594 >>64099721 >>64105540
>>64096088
The M7 barrels are rated for 10k rounds and you're frankly an idiot for claiming otherwise with zero evidence. Infantry weapons are also wear items. A soldier is not going to shoot 10k bullets through their gun in one evening. The gun will be checked before then, or the soldier will be KIA.
Anonymous No.64097057 >>64105712
>>64095970
Like I said, retarded. It was figured out decades ago that more boolet is more important than beeg boolet.
Anonymous No.64097556
>>64091646
>contextless
How new are you to guns, faggot?
Anonymous No.64097579
>>64093939
I literally poured my own AR lower out of 7075 with some spare time in my shop that has 10x the tolerance. Sig is the worst company in the industry right now.
Anonymous No.64097583 >>64097666
>>64094119
I've seen some carbon composites + unobtainum materials starting to get talked about in small circles that may rival iron alloys, but that kind of shit is so expensive and under so much red tape that it only ends up in very small sections of very expensive aircraft.
Anonymous No.64097585 >>64097727 >>64099863
They claim its being rolled out but i just don't believe it.

Troops would have said it's too heavy, the magazine capacity is a pain because it means they have to carry too many mags, it only qualified with the meme ammo which nobody will ever get issued.

The corruption probably stems from the optics company, who piggy backed into the tender process. There was no reason for the optic to be included in the same tender, that simply locked companies out of the bidding process
Anonymous No.64097589
Stupid Concept >>64091562 (OP)
Anonymous No.64097592
>2 (two) charging handles
Anonymous No.64097594
>>64097049
There are literally white papers from the DoD itself in this thread talking about 2000rd degradation. Go fuck yourself.
Anonymous No.64097599
>>64096054
Lol is it bad that I know this shop from this pic alone?
Anonymous No.64097657
>>64091663
Come back when you're older and less brown.
Anonymous No.64097661 >>64097947
>>64091578
>"DUDE did you know people who like good battle-rifles hate bad battle-rifles? Those guys are stupid and clearly just hate the manufacturer!"
Anonymous No.64097666 >>64097730 >>64097740
>>64097583
What kind of wonder material do you think guns would benefit most from? Ultralight Steel analogs for the barrel? Some case material that can withstand >100kpsi? Something else?
Anonymous No.64097704
>>64094683
>>64095562
Because the USA has become a system of managers managing managers managing managers, with a culture of "shut up and go with the flow for your paycheck and career advancement opportunity", with very little sense real world grouding and practical experience. Less as you look higher up the ladder.

Numbers and statistics and its gotta be tech!! and other bullshit.
Anonymous No.64097727
>>64097585
See you when Sig wins the next 4 contracts
Anonymous No.64097730 >>64097775 >>64099164 >>64099221 >>64099221
>>64097666
New ultra-strong (and light) and heat-resistant materials for barrels and new fast burning progressive propellants. Cheap, easily moldable yet strong and light polymers for furniture would help too.
Disintegrating sabots.
Batteries with higher energy densities for digitized firearms with higher first-shot accuracy (smart FCS, electronic firing).
We already have polymer cases that can withstand 100ksi (Textron CT).
Eventually we will be able to do caseless without having to make too many concessions, allowing further weight and volume savings.

Future soldiers may carry suppressed 6lb MP7-sized firearms with 50-round magazines that fire .22 VLDs at 3000 fps, with 90% hit probabilities on man-sized targets 1000 yards away using their smart FCS.
Anonymous No.64097740 >>64097775 >>64099172 >>64099221 >>64099689
>>64097666
Well currently the biggest limitation in the advancement of firearms is heat mitigation. Heat is the biggest obstacle to durability, stress, longevity, accuracy, etc. Just about everything that's stopping us from the next generation of weapons is related to it.

It's why caseless never took off, it's why velocity and range have plateaud in the last 60 years, it's why no amount of new smokeless powder or new ogive design will change the modern battlefield.

Polymers and carbon technologies are the missing link in heat mitigation.

Once we figure out how to build a material that can withstand immense pressure, impact resistance, shear strength, hardness, etc. while also mitigating heat on the level of carbon fiber, you'll start seeing rifles with 5 miles of accurate range and velocity, super high firing rates without the need for barrel changes or loss in MOA, amazing recoil management without sacrificing caliber, all the things we're still trying to accomplish on 50 year old weapons platforms but failing to do.
Anonymous No.64097744 >>64097775
>>64094109
It's metal not butter, also this the latest in sigger technology, the heat science is there anon.
Anonymous No.64097775 >>64097789 >>64097799
>>64097730
>>64097740
>>64097744
Fucking braindead nu-zoomers shoving their malaised garbage thought into "AI" and believing, key word there, that the chatbot output isn't masturbating them for continued engagement.
Go on ask, -demand-, the stupid box doesn't jerk you off and agree with what you say. Just try. Good luck I say because it won't it literally cannot stop jerking off the user. They are built to not disagree. If you tell an AI your premise is FTL is buildable today it will go through hell and high water to keep you mentally positive and spewing out exceedingly batshit, nonsense word spew for the effect of continued use.

God damn the world is going to collapse from sheer animalistic stupidity whilst everyone is manipulated to *feel* they cant be dumb, cant be non intelligent!
Anonymous No.64097789 >>64097821
>>64097775
Agreed, but what does this have to do with anything?
Anonymous No.64097799 >>64097821
>>64097775
I've worked in manufacturing for 15 years, I've worked in the gun industry for 4. Kill yourself.
Anonymous No.64097821 >>64097850 >>64097942 >>64098399 >>64101222
>>64097789
Idk man
>>64097799
Materials science by this point has essentially figured out the properties attainable. You can have wear resistance A+ level, but not strength or corrosion.
Since you supposedly have 15+ years of and 4 in weaponsmithing you should understand exactly what I mean.

My personal knowledge is in blades. We have ductility ("toughness",) hardness, corrosion, and sub-facets of these properties. You maximize one you minimze another. You cannot have high toughness and equally high hardness, both of which required to achieve in the case of firearms high pressure capacity and longevity. 100k psi? Sure fool, any steel can do that just make the device thicker. High force -and- lifespan i.e. >10k rounds?
Go ahead and convince me it will be done. I don't believe it.
Anonymous No.64097847 >>64099721 >>64099976
>>64094930
There were a number of issues besides just the powder.

The magazines were designed to be disposable. Instead they had to be reused and didn't handle frequent reloading well causing bent loading ports that interfered with proper round striping causing jams.

Key internals weren't chrome plated, so in a humid as fuck environment, they got covered in rust and corrosion. Guess what? Vietnam is humid as fuck. This lead to jams.

The powder change caused the internals to get gunked up with powder residue. MORE jams.

Cleaning kits were relatively uncommon so guns that got nasty, stayed nasty and produced MORE JAMS.

It was a bunch of failures that, when addressed, resulted in a good rifle. Handing out very unreliable weaponry to soldiers in active warzones is a very good way to earn a bad reputation though.
Anonymous No.64097850 >>64097945
>>64097821
Not that anon, but that's what we're discussing. What wonder material(s) (which by definition usually don't exist) would make the biggest impact on small arms design; new barrel and chamber materials are the top candidate. And don't you alloys that were only introduced less than half a decade ago like MagnaCut? Even if the improvements are incremental, this proves that smart people and the companies they work for won't stop innovating as long as there's demand.
Anonymous No.64097942 >>64098630
>>64097821
>material science has been figured out
>yOu ShOuLd KnOw ThAt
Jesus Christ.
I don't know that, because I'm not a PhD in metallurgical engineering. But then again, neither are you. Apparently they've figured it all out though, time to shut down the entire program. Fucking retard.
Anonymous No.64097945 >>64097973
>>64097850
You need to take everything that retarded faggot says with a grain of shit because he's retarded.
There are entire multi-billion dollar research groups solely dedicated to discovering and utilizing new materials and their physics. If you have a difficult time seeing that he's retarded, it's too late for you.
Anonymous No.64097947 >>64099868
>>64097661
>good battle rifles

uh huh, which ones? please say 'FAL' lol
Anonymous No.64097966
>>64091646
fucker that shit is Italian automotive industry tier "I DONT GIVE A FUCK QC".
>>64092380
that gap is bigger than your microdick
Anonymous No.64097973 >>64098153 >>64098156
>>64097945
I have a mild approach to luddites, the only people I can't tolerate on this board are the obsessive schizos and ritual posters.
I was also severely retarded in the past and still feel bad when someone tells me to kms over a tongue-in-cheek post, I can't subject other anons to the same treatment desu.
Anonymous No.64098153
>>64097973
NiggernNiggerNiggerNigger

I think you have actual autism. And not the fun, smart kind.
Anonymous No.64098156 >>64098269 >>64099350
>>64097973
Oh nvm lol I thought you were three blade warrior. Sorry, tardnon. Ur good guy.
Anonymous No.64098269 >>64099350
>>64098156
You're going to die knowing that nobody had ever made a successful 100k psi gun and somehow I'm the schiz retard.
Anonymous No.64098399 >>64098473
>>64097821
Ductility and toughness are not the same thing, and you can have high toughness and high strength at the same time.

Ductility is a material's ability to stretch before breaking and toughness is a material's ability to resist fracturing, so materials with high ductility generally have high toughness as well. But there are materials that are exceptionally difficult to fracture while also barely deforming at all before breaking. A lot of these materials have other problems; you wouldn't make a barrel out of nanocrystalline diamond (carbon is flammable), but others like titanium boride or boron carbide could theoretically be used if you could find a way to make them cost effective.
Anonymous No.64098473 >>64098615
>>64098399
Board is full of niggers who cant keep an entire idea in their head if you held them at gun point and you're one of them.
Anonymous No.64098615 >>64098664
>>64098473
>no argument
Okay, anon. Here's your (you), don't spend it all in one place.
Anonymous No.64098630
>>64097942
I doubt this guy would even get postmarital sex
Anonymous No.64098664 >>64099251
>>64098615
The entire idea. The whole thing. Ductility and toughness don't directly show all cases of metal wear. Wear is its own category. Ductility and toughness and wear all have specific sub categories. A lattice can be less ductile in one axis than another. You don't bend a leaf spring crossways you put load atop its longitudinal.

Fucks sake the WHOLE idea you cunt.
Anonymous No.64099067
>>64095198
>tfw pkm has 400m more range than the M240 while being like 10 pounds lighter
Feelsgoodman soviet engineers were gods
volume of fire appreciator No.64099164 >>64099350
>>64097730
hello my friend

would it be practical for soldiers to hit targets with such a small package? yes, you could build a featherweight ultracompact weapon like that, but would it be practical, given the lack of space for modularity and attachments, and just the fact that long range shooting doesn't benefit from such a lightweight gun? simply breathing would pull your aim off once you go light enough. Also what would the wounding power of machfuck 21 fireball be at 1000 yards?
volume of fire appreciator No.64099172 >>64100788 >>64100924
>>64097740
calling it now, the new ar15 will be the carbon fiber rifle. Which ironically will probably be an ar15 made out of carbon fiber.
Anonymous No.64099221 >>64099350
>>64097730
>>64097740
Thanks for the replies bros. It makes sense that there is a huge bottleneck in heat management.

>>64097730
The MP7 you described is 90% possible now, compliments of 80kpsi cases. Just not with a 1000yd range or 50rds. More like 300 yards and 30rds.
Anonymous No.64099251
>>64098664
What's your point? I wasn't talking about wear at all, but it's mostly a function of surface hardness and lubricity. Most materials can be made very wear resistant with the use of appropriate coatings or surface treatments. The direction you load a leaf spring doesn't affect its ductility because that's a property of the material itself and not the shape it's formed into.
Anonymous No.64099350 >>64100845 >>64108766
>>64098156
It's alright anon.
>>64098269
There's always been demand for it. They'll manage it eventually, just as they managed flight. The biggest hurdle isn't even material requirements, but market demand.
https://techlinkcenter.org/news/us-army-researchers-are-turning-it-up-to-11-to-make-hypervelocity-firearms/
>>64099164
Sure, that's why you implement fire inhibit FCS, like the SMASH FCS but further refined. You don't need that many gadgets even for the highest speed uses, you have enough space for an optic, combo IR/light on top of the hanguard, and remote switches on the side.
I am completely ignorant of the wounding properties of machfuck boolits in general. I don't imagine the barrier penetration would be great, but for military use that could be mitigated by progress in other weapon systems.
>>64099221
Yeah, we'll need something closer to 4000 fps for ~1000yds. Fuck, that's hot. In both senses of the word.
Anonymous No.64099367 >>64099405 >>64106675
>>64091681
>How was this even possible? They legitimately snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
It's simple:
>The Army's requirements were stupid
>Sig had a stupid way of meeting the stupid requirement
>GD had a neat way of meeting the stupid requirement
>Textron and GD weren't interested in selling guns
>The contest came down to Sig vs True Velocity (trying to sell the gun GD abandoned)
>When the Army realized their requirement was stupid, Sig was able to trivially undo the fuckery required to meet it
>The entire GD/TV/LS gun was built around meeting the stupid requirement and there's no way to unfuck it into a normal gun without throwing it away and starting fresh
Anonymous No.64099405 >>64099486 >>64099716
>>64099367
>Textron and GD weren't interested in selling guns

then why did they enter?
Anonymous No.64099442
>>64091578
Is this BR fag in the room with us right now?

Nobody in their right mind reccomends BR's for anything but recreational shooting with only a tentative secondary role for fighting if necessary.
Anonymous No.64099486 >>64099497
>>64099405
GD is massive and Textron owns Bell and is going to make the Black Hawk replacement
The contract wasn't as big for them as it was for Sig and TV, so they could afford to accept that Sig was going to win no matter how much they protested or improved on their product due to factors outside of their control
Anonymous No.64099497 >>64099515
>>64099486
anon you know if your opponent in a conversation used this argument you wouldn't allow it. you would literally just reply "I didn't actually WANT to win!"
Anonymous No.64099515 >>64099556
>>64099497
They did want to win
What do you know about the sunk cost fallacy?
Anonymous No.64099556 >>64099636
>>64099515
is it really sunk costs if you win the contract?
Anonymous No.64099636
>>64099556
I think that is possible in some circumstances, e.g. if you win the contract by severely undercutting your opponent losing you money in the long run, but it's not applicable here
>Army sets up competition
>GD, TS, and Sig are downselected
>Testing, problems are encoutered, feedback is given, all part of the process
>The Army starts showing a clear preference for Sig
>The time comes to make amendments under time constraints and very little prospect for anyone besides Sig winning
>GD and Textron are led by dispassionate businessmen, they drop out
>GD hands their submission to LoneStar and TV as they can't exist without the contract, they even advertise selling it to civilians as the Amicus platform
>Sig wins anyway
Anonymous No.64099689 >>64100773
>>64097740
>It's why caseless never took off
It never took off because you have to handle it with care lest it get dropped, shaken, or hit too hard and store it in waterproof containers at all times so it doesn't get wet and turn into mush. It's a stupid fucking idea before any of the other problems even rear their head.
Anonymous No.64099716
>>64099405
They wanted to sell service contracts and make residuals off of it forever and ever, not sell a handful of guns once. Sig offered to actually sell the guns instead of leasing them and then Textron and GD were never heard from again. Then TV took over GD's bid and offered better terms, but that's when the Army decided that maybe the cartridge didn't have to be quite so hot. Sig reduced the pressure of their cartridge by 10,000 PSI, TV had no low-hanging fruit to be gained by reducing the power of their cartridge.
Anonymous No.64099721 >>64099907
>>64097049
Ron, pls.

>>64097847
>The magazines were designed to be disposable
I challenge you find a source for this claim. This gets paraded around but nobody can ever verify it.
Now, the original aluminum follower mags weren't particularly great, but there's zero evidence for them having ever been designed to be disposable, it's simply a myth that has been repeated.

>Key internals weren't chrome plated
The chamber not being chrome plated is the single aspect here which affected mechanical reliability, good job addressing something I already mentioned. They would outright stop chrome plating the BCG because it was unnecessary to do so, even with the slightly dirtier powder, because it literally does not matter in any remotely immediate sense if the insides of the BCG gets dirty from shooting.

This isn't blackpowder, you don't stop to clean during battle or after every single engagement.

>The powder change caused the internals to get gunked up with powder residue.
Not to a strongly appreciable degree. Again, if this was such a big problem, they would not have moved away from chrome plating the BCG.

>Cleaning kits were relatively uncommon so guns that got nasty, stayed nasty and produced MORE JAMS.
See my previous point.

>It was a bunch of failures that, when addressed, resulted in a good rifle.
There were a number of problems, and the lack of cleaning kits is certainly a problem in the long run, but it wasn't even remotely an immediate problem, such as the fucked timing or unchromed chambers. You can run an M16 dirty as fuck and that in itself isn't a direct problem for reliability.
Just the same, a heavier recoil buffer and a rifle with merely the chamber chromed (without chroming the rest of the bore, and this was done on some test rifles), would solve 99% of the immediate functional problems the rifle had in the field.

Also, again, these things weren't problems during Project AGILE
Anonymous No.64099749 >>64099973 >>64100833
>>64091578
Siggers OUT
Anonymous No.64099863 >>64099978
>>64097585
>Troops would have said it's too heavy, the magazine capacity is a pain because it means they have to carry too many mags
Soldiers have already complained about this. One that came up is that their combat load isn't enough, so grunts are taking the ammo carried by non-grunts to make up for it lmao.
Anonymous No.64099868 >>64099921
>>64097947
The FAL, which did fine in countless conflicts? Along with the G3? Yeah, they're pretty good as battle rifles go, especially compared to the Sig Spear.
Anonymous No.64099907 >>64105254 >>64105301
>>64099721
People get their wires crossed about the magazines. There actually was a program to develop a disposable M16 mag, but they were chintzy plastic things, not the aluminum magazines. Colt and the Army both made a go at it but they never went anywhere.
Anonymous No.64099921 >>64099942
>>64099868
>"did fine"

ya in all those conflicts where they fought people with old WWII equipment
Anonymous No.64099942
>>64099921
At least pretend to know what you're talking about.
Anonymous No.64099962
>>64095605
Just needed more m16a4s and a bunch of special order 8x acogs.

Or jump from 2.5x to 4x
Anonymous No.64099973 >>64100452
>>64099749
you hate the spear because you wanted the silly bullpup to win.
Anonymous No.64099976
>>64097847
>causing bent loading ports
Are you an ESL?
That's one hell of a unique way to name mag feed lips.
Barrels in the test run where chromed, then cost cut to chamber chrome only (all you really need) then eliminated.

You're forgetting incremental changes and thinking like a zoomer with binary.
It's not like each individual exchange clips the reliable bit from one to zero.

Just like modern America, your cost cut 5% here and 5% there until you have total system collapsed.
Anonymous No.64099978 >>64109003
>>64099863
What non-grunts are even getting issued M7s?
Anonymous No.64100452 >>64100946
>>64099973
No
I hate the spear because it's a half baked, shitty gun designed to fleece the American taxpayer built by a company run by the tiny hats
Anonymous No.64100604 >>64100718
>>64096054
NEVER EVER COMPARE SIGSHIT WITH FLORIOUS LAST DITCH WEAPONS OF WW2!! I had a feb 1945 production k98 that shot groups smaller than OPs dick.
Anonymous No.64100718
>>64100604
Post pix. Of the latewar Karabiner, not OP's dick.
Anonymous No.64100773 >>64102135 >>64102559
>>64099689
Bitch the LSAT had rice polymer casing that made it as durable as plastic and not nearly as prone to drops. The benefits of caseless far outweigh the issues when you look at potential.
Anonymous No.64100788 >>64100924
>>64099172
I could make a carbon fiber AR right now. As in, I literally have all the necessary equipment in my garage. I've thought about specific pieces, but at the end of the day with the limitations of carbon f9ber it would be a horrible idea beyond the handguard and maybe the lower.
Anonymous No.64100833
>>64099749
>doesn’t post gun

This is /k/, retard. Our board is about weapons. Beautiful nature porn belongs on the nature board.
Anonymous No.64100840
>>64091578
>>battle rifle fags immediately about-face and become battle rifle haters the moment sig wins
So, what you’re saying is that battle rifle fags are highly intelligent, and based?
Anonymous No.64100845 >>64101120 >>64105254
>>64099350
I know this isn’t what you meant by 90% hit probability at 1000yds, but for fun I wanted to see what kind of cartridge is capable of doing that and found that you need a G7BC of 1(!!!) going at 4000fps for a 90% hit probability on a human torso at 1000yds under <10mph winds. Nothing short of the eargesplitten loudenboomer will suffice.

Perhaps we ought to conquer 300 yards first, lol. P(h) is barely 1 even at 250yds under mild-to-barely-strong winds.
Anonymous No.64100924 >>64101203
>>64099172
>>64100788
ARs with carbon fiber lower and upper receivers are nothing new. They've been around in some form or another since at least the 90s.
Anonymous No.64100946 >>64101130
>>64100452
>run by the tiny hats

so when a CEO is jewish that means everyone in the company becomes jewish?
Anonymous No.64101120 >>64101226 >>64101621
>>64100845
Can't they already get 2900 fps with conventional projectiles at 100k psi from 10" barrels? With sabots/squeezebore and modified pressure curves, you could probably get up to 3500 fps from short barrels without much propellant
Anonymous No.64101130
>>64100946
Yeah
Anonymous No.64101203
>>64100924
I know that. They're also horribly unreliable. I work with carbon fiber for a living, I'm not trusting it under extreme, violent pressure.
Anonymous No.64101222
>>64097821
>My personal knowledge is in blades.
Anonymous No.64101226 >>64101263 >>64101374 >>64101621 >>64102973
>>64101120
You can get arbitrary velocities (I think up to Mach 6 or so) with any barrel length so long as the bullet is light enough.

Sabots don’t play well with muzzle devices, so forget suppression, which is probably mandatory with short barrels and gigapressures. Squeezebore sounds really exciting, I hope to see it explored in small caliber guns. If you could decouple internal efficiency from barrel length, that would be revolutionary. all guns would become SBRs overnight. Your pistol could have rifle ballistics.
Anonymous No.64101263 >>64101436
>>64101226
What kind of retard uses Mach numbers when talking about bullet velocity? You're not getting anywhere close to that number with smokeless powder, anyway.
Anonymous No.64101374 >>64101436 >>64101545
>>64101226
Pretty sure just over Mach 4 is about the max you'll get without subcaliber shenanigans.
Anonymous No.64101436 >>64101446 >>64101465
>>64101263
What. Fucking. Ever. 6xxx fps because 6k has been cracked before.

>>64101374
>subcaliber shenanigans
So a light (for caliber) bullet. That’s what I said. I didn’t say it would be useful, just that it’s possible.
Anonymous No.64101446 >>64101509
>>64101436
>So a light (for caliber) bullet.
That's not what subcaliber means.
Anonymous No.64101465 >>64101509
>>64101436
>6xxx fps because 6k has been cracked before.
No it hasn't. The only references to that you'll find are pure bullshit written by gun rag hacks with 0 hard proof to back it up.
Anonymous No.64101509 >>64101570
>>64101446
Well think about why subcaliber shenanigans would enable higher than normal velocities. Because there is very little mass behind every unit of bore area (SD*v^2 is mostly constant, it’s just sectional energy). A 30 cal sabot holding a 55gr .224 projectile, with the whole thing weighing let’s say 75gr, is the same thing as a one-piece 75gr .308 bullet. So, light-for-caliber, it’s the same thing.

>>64101465
I know for sure 1 mile per second has been cracked, recently learned of high 5000’s and anecdotally very low 6000’s. Alright fine, whatever, Mach 5.

Are you seething at these units?
Anonymous No.64101545
>>64101374
Yeah the expanding gases are moving a little over 5k fps. 4500 is about the practical limit for a conventional cartridge. You can get closer to that 5k mark but it involves ridiculously overbore cartridges and other gimmicks.
Anonymous No.64101570 >>64101586
>>64101509
Okay, I suppose if literally all you care about is muzzle velocity then you can shoot a pancake shaped projectile that will lose all of its velocity in the first five feet.
Anonymous No.64101586
>>64101570
Yeah my point to the other anon (or maybe it’s you) that went over your head was that muzzle velocity is not purely a function of pressure and barrel length. Case capacity, bullet diameter, bullet mass, etc also matter, otherwise I have no idea what to make of “it goes 3000fps” .. yeah a 20gr 9mm could also go 3000fps.
Anonymous No.64101621 >>64101637 >>64101658
>>64101120
Call me greedy but that isn't that impressive, M855A1 gets 3000 fps out of a 14.5".

>>64101226
Well at this theoretical level of research funding, they will probably manage to make a suppressor that works with sabots. Things that come to mind are shotgun-like suppressors with rails or venting gas into the its chamber. Also found this https://patents.google.com/patent/US4928573A/en , and there are combustible sabots but I don't think they'd be feasible for small arms. I really want sabots to work because you'd be able to make very bespoke projectiles, approaching Sears-Haack bodies.

Almost all of it is figured out. Triple/double base or HMX, polymer CT rated up to 100ksi, VLD projectiles. There's no way they haven't figured out the construction needed for long-life 100ksi barrels. Would Armad work?
Anonymous No.64101637 >>64101758
>>64101621
>There's no way they haven't figured out the construction needed for long-life 100ksi barrels. Would Armad work?
That's what Sig uses. Doesn't stop the barrels from shitting themselves in short order.
Anonymous No.64101658 >>64101758 >>64102737
>>64101621
>projectiles approaching Sears-Haack bodies

Stop, I can only become so erect.

>woudl armad work
IIRC sig is using ARMAD in their M7 barrel and reports indicate that no, it is not working, barrel life is like 2000rds. Stellite could work. It’s been used in the past to increase the lifespan of m60 barrels. They’re extremely expensive though, apparently borderline impossible to make. They cost $3500 back in the 80s. I don’t know too much about metallurgy but I do know there’s tons of strong shit out there that makes for an excellent barrel material, but is really hard to shape into a barrel.

>Polymer CT rated to 100kpsi

Not the first I’m hearing of this pressure-bearing capability of CT rounds. Is there a catch? Are the polymer case walls really thick or something? Or is 100kpsi really just a matter of enveloping the *entire* cartridge in the chamber with no bit left unsupported? Could a cased telescoped cartridge also work with brass or steel?
Anonymous No.64101758 >>64102737 >>64106749
>>64101637
Shit.
>>64101658
>Stellite
That's good news.
Cost is honestly no object as long as its demonstrably possible, we already use lots of exotic materials. The Army pays something like $10k for each XM157, so it's not like they aren't willing to spend on small arms. You just need a particularly sleazy salesperson.
>really hard to shape
Yeah, that's how it usually goes. They consistently figure it out though, and economies of scale take over from there.

>Is there a catch?
One anon here says a round bent and exploded during firing in the testing phase of NGSW, but that's probably an easy fix. Textron called their polymer 'medical grade', so it was likely a commercial formulation.
The walls aren't much thicker than brass really.
>Or is 100kpsi really just a matter of enveloping the *entire* cartridge in the chamber with no bit left unsupported?
That's exactly right. The curved surface of the chamber is a monolithic cylinder, which rises to meet the 'bolt face' with the firing pin. There is no ejector. This is conjecture, but you might be able to increase pressure ratings even further with electronic firing, which was one of Textron's suggestions early on.
>Could a cased telescoped cartridge also work with brass or steel?
No doubt. They might not transfer the forces to the chamber as well (they probably won't have to), and they won't provide the heat management advantages of polymer. The technology is generally better suited for caseless and polymer case and the pressure thing is incidental. You could probably get even higher pressures with metallic cases if you could find a use for it.
Anonymous No.64101988
>>64094074
So they don't get in the way of the primary sights but are still there as an option if you need them.
Anonymous No.64102135
>>64100773
I don't know if you know this, but LSAT using polymer casings means that it was not a caseless cartridge.
Anonymous No.64102559
>>64100773
>caseless
>has a casing
Anonymous No.64102737
>>64101658
>>64101758
>Could a cased telescoped cartridge also work with brass or steel?
That's essentially what 7.62 Nagant is. You would have to build it like a Nagant revolver and not the rising chamber because the case has to expand into the gap to seal. Brass or steel won't contact back into the chamber afterward, you would need to move the chamber back to unlock it.
Anonymous No.64102973
>>64101226
>Sabots don’t play well with muzzle devices,
You can make muzzle devices with small holes and slits that doesn't let sabot open
Anonymous No.64103072 >>64103558
>>64095198
so the problem was that we were out ranged by 7.62R?
we haven't really had that much of an issue with it since it's inception in 1891, why is it a problem now?
Anonymous No.64103558
>>64103072
Because it actually isn't.
7.62x54mmR reaches longer than 5.56x45mm NATO, but 7.62x51mm NATO can reach out far enough to match anyway, however this doesn't really matter that much, because the reality of these engagements is that they were sporadic harassing fire which typically is already outside the practical range of the PKMs in question anyway.

You're looking at U.S Troops walking into very specific situations where they start receiving fire, but this fire is from SO fucking far away that it's incredibly difficult for the attackers to actually score any hits at all, and it's more just generally hitting around them (and at low velocity, after all that airtime).
Being so far away, obviously 5.56mm doesn't reach back in response, but neither does 7.62mm NATO, because this is really a matter of fire past realistic and effective infantry engagements, the Grunts and Durkas are often not even able to see each other with the naked eye.

G.I's aren't being horribly suppressed and absolutely helpless in this situation, it's more like they are being inconvenienced and annoyed because it's just kinda dangerous, they COULD get injured here, but they virtually never are. They can't adequately respond to the fire, but the incoming fire isn't even adequate either, and it's not the kind of tactics you'd expect from peer or near-peer adversaries either, this is very much an asymmetric thing, and which doesn't work either.

This is a lot like when WW1 era infantry rifles had sights ranging out to 2000m with the intent that this would be used for Harassing Fire, something which was virtually never useful (for small arms, anyway), and U.S brass are acting like this is A), completely unforeseen and shocking, and B), like this is something of actual consequence. Possibly in return for money.
Anonymous No.64103572
Now, I shouldn't say that Harassing Fire as a concept is wholly worthless, because for artillery this makes phenomenal sense, but you just aren't going to be able to match the range of artillery with an infantry rifle, that is completely insane to think, there's multiple other ways to respond to this which is more useful.
Anonymous No.64104977 >>64105312
>>64091578
I hated it before it was trendy
Sig Schizo No.64104983
>>64091578
Cohen's a smooth criminal alright
Hee hee!
Sig Schizo No.64105017 >>64105791
>>64095841
Heavy for no fucking reason, even without the accessories
Excessive muzzle flash and report
Excessive recoil
Mandatory suppressor
Fucking heavy ammo which means less of a combat load
Bimettalic case tends to split while inside the gun
Expensive as shit especially with the other accessories tacked on
Inaccurate, 4 MOA with match ammo, lol, lmao even
Two charging handles, the rear one tends to break since it interferes with the stock
The barrel might even bend
Doctrinally stupid though that is more the army brass's fault
And most of all
>2 0 R O U N D S
Anonymous No.64105254 >>64105301
>>64099907
>>64100845
Uhhhhh, you're discovering flechette rifles.
Then the military tweaked the requirements to make acogs 90% because if you're slightly off you can see the fall of shot and just readjust instantly.
I think the future will be a million rounds per minute with zero recoil so you just do a long burst from Lowest suspected range to furthest
Anonymous No.64105301 >>64105779 >>64105779
>>64105254
>in the future, we will be able to violate physical laws!

But really, flechettes would work only if their flight characteristics were perfectly consistent from one to the next, and as I understand, this is not the case, right? Since they’re fin stabilized.

>>64099907
Wdym disposable mags? Aren’t all mags disposable? There’s no way guys are retaining their empty mags that cost maybe a dollar or two to make.
Anonymous No.64105312 >>64105471 >>64105692
>>64104977
This image sucks because the Bradley turned out perfect while the Spear will never, ever be good
Anonymous No.64105471 >>64105707
>>64105312
The Bradley is actually pretty fucking good, yeah.
Anonymous No.64105540
>>64097049
>im just going to ignore the evidence already posted in this thread
MIMdia isnt sending their best
Anonymous No.64105643
>>64092095
God help em
Anonymous No.64105673
>>64091578
>Army adopts a Battle Rifle
>Its the worst choice possible
>Meme overpowered round instead of a sensible intermediate 6 to 7mm or Just using the vast 7.62x51 infrastructure already there for more ammo commonality

Its not fair...
Anonymous No.64105690
>>64095950
It didn't actually say that, it said more than 2k and degredation was easily observable in the rifling, but the the impact od that degredation was not quantified. As in, for one reason or another he makes no comment on how much of a difference it made. Probably because he only had the opportunity to inspect the rifles but not test them
Anonymous No.64105692 >>64105726
>>64105312
It also misses the point. The cartridge is the only problem with the M7 (well, that and being made by Sig), any other problems it has, like the optic reliability, are downstream of the stupid cartridge.
Anonymous No.64105707
>>64105471
To be fair the edit is well done and the text is good, I just disliked the original
Anonymous No.64105712 >>64105722
>>64097057
If moar was the only thing that mattered, we'd all be issued american 180's
Anonymous No.64105722 >>64105735
>>64105712
The thing that matters is getting the most bullets on target in the shortest time. You'd think that means something like an American 180 or Calico or M249 with a 400 round box, but those are all lacking in the "on target" department. What it actually means is something like an HK416 with a quad stack mag.
Anonymous No.64105726
>>64105692
>The cartridge is the only problem with the M7
I saw some video a while ago which said that all the M7s are smoothboring their barrels in the same exact place under the gas port.

Every youtuber who's held the M7 also says it's so front heavy with that gas piston, bull barrel and suppressor that you can't reload it from the shoulder.
S.I.M No.64105734
No.64094074
itn was desgined by a ex commando lol its /45 s0o that if your acog battery dies you can still aim.
duh
Anonymous No.64105735 >>64105874 >>64105940
>>64105722
Rate of fire * hit probability * kill probability. Something like that. An accurate rifle fed from quad stacks firing a flat shooting cartridge is indeed the way to go.
Anonymous No.64105779 >>64105827
>>64105301
That's why you hyper burst them. It's good enough.
Muh physics but doesn't even know what was trialed 50+ years ago fughghhhhh

Not all of them where fin stabalised kel

>>64105301
Disposable mags for a dollar.
Fucking hell, no wonder we repeat the same doom loop every fifth years.
The idea was to use the new superpolymers to make mags that cost like a dime and replace how we use stripper clips with the supeepolymer mags.
Basically, youd always have speed balls ready to go. I think them looking at the minimag in 556 around 69 and 75 killed the idea.
Fiber reinforced nylon plus injections molding IIRC

They were trying to solve the lessons learned from having to link 50 BMG in the machine gun nest because it didn't ship linked
Anonymous No.64105791
>>64105017
Multiple reports have said the suppressor mount is really flimsy. I don't know what's going on there though. I can't imagine anyone would actually weld one on.
Anonymous No.64105827 >>64106744
>>64105779
>disposable mags for a dollar

Am I not following something? A dollar is nothing. A dollar a mag is 7 whole dollars over a combat load. A combat load which itself costs way more than 7 dollars. But either way, we do have polymer mags that no doubt cost less than aluminum mags to make. So are they not disposable or what?

>hyperburst
Eh, alright, accuracy by volume at 1000yds.
Anonymous No.64105874
>>64105735
We have to balance data and experience (anecdotal evidence and context) to get truly useful information. The NGSW's 6.8mm requirement was spawned by an inability to reconcile the two, which is also how we got the M14.

The data from Afghanistan (0.43% of the world's total landmass) revealed that sometimes, soldiers encountered enemies that they could not reach out and touch. These enemies often engaged outside of their own effective range, and most of the time soldiers were able to maneuver out of the way.
The context is a fighting force that is reliant on fire support - organic or otherwise - to prosecute a wide variety of targets including far-off ones, and it often *has* that fire support. A fighting force that is typically overburdened and yet still feels the need to carry extra ammunition, prefers lighter rifles, and to whom aimed shots are more of a luxury than a constant reality.

From here you can arrive at one of three conclusions.
>No problem here.
>The rifles seem fine, but maybe in a near-peer war, we won't be able to provide fire support as easily. Give soldiers and commanders more organic fire support - brigade-level UCAVs, long range airburst grenades, loitering munitions, mounted precision fires, et cetera. We should also lighten their existing load to make this possible.
>We rely too much on inorganic fire support. As we know from our experience in the Napoleonic wars, organic fire support is mere science fiction, and so we must extend the rifleman's maximum reach from 50% of that of the enemy's to 75% of that of the enemy's. The inability to perform most other infantry duties is an acceptable compromise.
volume of fire appreciator No.64105940 >>64105949
>>64105735
army pls buy quattro 15 lowers and call it the m4a2
Anonymous No.64105949 >>64106526
>>64105940
Make them as long as the surefires, with nested springs, and quad stack all the way up, and the capacity could be 75 rounds. That’s a winner.

53 is just a dumb capacity ngl. Prime number mag capacity? Gross.
Anonymous No.64106526 >>64106647 >>64106661
>>64105949
>Implying you know the exact capacity and not the reason for it.
Yeah, nice try with that.
Anonymous No.64106535
>>64091578
>battle rifle fags don't want a piece of ShIG tainting the image of a battle rifle
They seem reasonable.
Anonymous No.64106647 >>64106703
>>64106526
If there is no double stack tower, and instead the stack hits the feed lips as soon as 4 stacks zipper down into two, this would have the effect of doubling the capacity of the surefire’s tower, which is about 15 rounds.

Picrel. The Surefire is composed of 3 fundamental segments. The bottom (blue) segment is quad stack. The middle (yellow) segment is where the stacks zipper down into two, and the top (red) segment is a simple double stack tower. You can imagine cutting off the red section, doubling its width/capacity (so it’s quad stack) and adding it to the blue section. And just move the feed lips to the top of the yellow section. This keeps the mag the same length. So, +15 rounds.

With smaller case diameters, capacity would increase. For example if you moved to a 30 carbine case head (9mm vs 9.6mm for the 5.56), you’d gain ~5-6 rounds for the same mag length, and mag width would decrease by about 0.1”. Doesn’t sound like a lot but it is both a gain in capacity and reduction in magazine weight per capacity.
Anonymous No.64106661 >>64106710 >>64106914
>>64106526
Kek, I realized just now you weren’t taking about the 75rd figure I mentioned. Yeah I understand desert tech’s reason for 53 rounds but fuck man who gives a shit about an extra literally 0.2” of mag length. That’s what it costs to increase the capacity by TWO ROUNS to a nice multiple of 5. Or they could’ve used nested springs and got 60 rounds for the same (or shorter) length. I think I’m safe in assuming though that surefire has a patent on nested springs, since it seems like a no-brainer if the objective is to maximize mag capacity without increasing length.
Anonymous No.64106675 >>64109051 >>64109085
>>64099367
What was the stupid requirement and how did GD meet it? I haven't really been following this sorry tale because I never thought the army would go through with it.
Anonymous No.64106703 >>64106716
>>64106647
This makes sense, but on the other hand, why not go small and make 30rd chode mags? I think that would be pretty cool.
Anonymous No.64106710 >>64106721 >>64106732
>>64106661
I'm not as sure as you are that nested springs equate to better springs.
Anonymous No.64106716
>>64106703
If the normal 30rd pmags are short enough to go prone with, I don’t see why you’d ever want to go shorter. You’d be sacrificing capacity for no benefit. Besides, the whole point of feeding a gun from a quad stack mag is to sort of simulate LMG capability. And for that, capacity is indispensable.

Someone’s done it though. Some guy chopped up a surefire mag to a 30 round capacity, it looks kinda funny.
Anonymous No.64106721 >>64106732 >>64106920
>>64106710
Maybe I’m using the wrong terminology. Your picrel is not what I meant. See this metal cup at the base of the largest diameter spring? The spring to its right fits inside of it. They both push up on the follower, but when the mag is fully loaded, the smaller spring disappears entirely into that cup and so its compressed height does not contribute to the magazine’s total length.
Anonymous No.64106732 >>64106751
>>64106710
>>64106721(me)

Here’s a video:

https://youtu.be/ff3bz8bhR1I?si=4Vu_49Z9jkmWUPTa

Starts at 4:44
Anonymous No.64106744 >>64106750
>>64105827
All mags should be considered disposable, whether they cost $1 or $20. It should be expected that soldiers are going to drop, break, toss them to buddies, lose them while rolling around and just generally throw them somewhere during mag changes and combat. Thats why in the Army the would issue you a combat load of mags although encourage holding on to them, didnt expect to ever get them back.
Also why I have like 50 metal GI mags for my AR lol.
Anonymous No.64106749
>>64101758
>10k per xm157
Nahhhh it's 3.5k per unit price the rest is for continued development, support and maint, and service life.
Anonymous No.64106750
>>64106744
Yeah I figured as much. I was wondering why someone would call it a disposable mag, implying the existence of non-disposable mags. If you’re emptying mags, you’re in a gunfight. Who has the nerves and the presence of mind to keep inventory of mags while being shot at?
Anonymous No.64106751
>>64106732
Thanks. I get how it works.
Anonymous No.64106914 >>64106920
>>64106661
>assuming though that surefire has a patent on nested springs
That's ridiculous. Nested springs have been around for more than a hundred years
Anonymous No.64106920 >>64106950
>>64106914
I’m using the wrong word. It’s not nested springs, it’s this >>64106721. Dunno what you’d call that, but nested springs just sounded right
Anonymous No.64106950
>>64106920
Yes yes but I refuse to believe that nobody else hasn't done that before
Anonymous No.64107628 >>64107651 >>64107741
We're gonna be stuck with the M4 for the next 30 years aren't we?
Anonymous No.64107651
>>64107628
well yes that and the m27
Anonymous No.64107686
>>64091591
>do this with an m4
>exact same shit
This image was a filter for self proclaimed "gun enthusiast" who cant put back on their ar/m4 hand guards by themselves
Anonymous No.64107741
>>64107628
Yes bro try to keep up. We don’t deserve it, we’re stupid, we suck, and we deserve to suffer with outdated equipment because we don’t know what’s good for us. See this post for more details on why we don’t deserve nice things: >>64105693
Anonymous No.64107769
>>64094661
It had many issues including much internal sabotage.
Anonymous No.64107776 >>64107818
>>64095609
Dude, shut the fuck up about the toy helicopters. We know you love those staged PoW execution videos from Ukraine but the adults are ralking here.
Anonymous No.64107808
>>64095198
>>64095536
A big problem is that we already have other weapons and solutions to this barely problem. But people wanting to give SIG cash think we need new stuff
Anonymous No.64107812 >>64110470
>>64091562 (OP)
Is it time for the marine review pdf?
Anonymous No.64107818
>>64107776
>but the adults are ralking here
Anonymous No.64108766
>>64099350
Besides FCS there are many useful things that will become more feasible with electronic firing, like the IWI Arbel (also Israeli) for automatic weapons
https://youtu.be/_WB36CpfoI0
Anonymous No.64109003
>>64099978|
>“I was able to observe … a combined arms live fire exercise, or company live fire for those who aren’t familiar,” Trent explained. “The platoon I was tasked with observing was tasked to suppress the objective for the other two platoons of that company to then maneuver and provide effects on the battlefield.”

>“Within 10 minutes, the platoon I observed was almost completely out of ammunition after starting the engagement. By 15 minutes, their ability to produce effective suppression had become almost zero,” he continued. “This is after having taken spare magazines for the XM7 from radio operators, medics, platoon leadership, etc.”

https://www.twz.com/land/army-captain-slams-new-xm7-rifle-as-unfit-sig-sauer-says-otherwise
Anonymous No.64109051 >>64109085 >>64109923
>>64106675
The same muzzle energy as .308 from a 20" barrel in a package that mounts a suppressor but is barely longer than an M4.
Anonymous No.64109085
>>64106675
>>64109051
And GD met it by building a bullpup using their impulse averaging technology they developed for their really cool .338 magnum lightweight MMG that's fireable from the shoulder. Whereas Sig cut the barrel of an AR10 in half and made a super giga retard pressure cartridge for it.
Anonymous No.64109923
>>64109051
but it’s a bullpup (gross)
Anonymous No.64109950
>>64091562 (OP)
>inb4 goes the way of the SCAR
Look at how many SCARs the army bought

Now look at how many M7s they've bought
Anonymous No.64109966 >>64109984
Another 16,000 rifles in FY26's budget
Anonymous No.64109984
>>64109966
Army accepted ~1350 per month for 2024 and most of 2025 then ~2800 last month, and will be accepting ~1500 per month for the next year. And then back to ~1350 per month for the following year.

And presumably, the FY27 order will continue at a similar pace to meet the goal of ~120,000 weapons delivered by ~2029.
Anonymous No.64110470
>>64107812
2 . 5 M O A with match ammo!
.
5
M
O
A

the intro:
While it has some impressive terminal ballistic potential, the adoption of the XM7 represents a significant downgrade to the ability of Soldiers to fight and win the next peer on peer war. From World War I to the battlefields of the Russia-Ukraine War, a huge majority of infantry engagements have occurred within 300 meters. The lesson learned in blood from these conflicts is that fire superiority--not long range, aimed fire--is what wins firefights. This monograph seeks to re-examine the lessons of the past in combination with unclassified technical and tactical data to make a compelling argument against the continued adoption of the XM7. It will also examine the programs which led to the creation of the XM7, reports from units currently equipped with the XM7, and potential alternatives for consideration.

the report:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/91xl8q839hn28uj/Trent_NGSW-EWS_Fellowship_Project_%2528Final%2529.pdf/file