Thread 64096232

>The Conquistadores used perro de guerra (war dogs) extensively in the Americas
>They proved to be dreadfully effective weapons against Aztec and Inca troops
>The Aztecs had only ever seen little Chihuahuas that they used primarily for food

Imagine you are some Aztec who had never seen a domesticated predator before and some tall, white, Spanish Chads show up with 200 pound armores Mastiffs that rip your chief's throat out

>Becerrillo (meaning "Little Bull Calf") was the name of a legendary Castilian attack dog during the 16th century
>The dog was owned by Ponce de León. When he was busy with his duties as the governor of Puerto Rico amd entrusted to the care of Captain Diego Guilarte de Salazar
>He would use Becerrillo to attack natives who defied the conquistadors, attempting to terrorize them into accepting the rule of the Spanish invaders
>During a battle in which the natives launched a surprise attack against the village where the Spanish troops led by Guilarte de Salazar were encamped, Becerrillo alerted the conquistadors by barking until they awoke. Guilarte de Salazar entered the battle with the dog at his side. During the course of the half-hour-long battle, Becerrillo alone killed thirty-three of the native attackers
>The reputation of the killer dog spread. He became more feared than the men he fought alongside. The dog was accomplished at finding and instilling fear in the Indians and able to do the work of fifty soldiers. He was fed the same rations as the men and paid a wage

>>64096258
Another storybfinds the Spanish conquistadors outside the capital of Puerto Rico at the time, Caparra, where a group of Indians had been captured and subdued
>While waiting for Ponce de León to arrive from the capital, the troops amused themselves by harassing the captives
>Guilarte de Salazar gave an old Indian woman a folded piece of paper and informed her that it was a letter that was to be carried to the governor- if she refused, she would be fed to the dogs
>The frightened woman accepted in the hopes of surviving, but after she turned and began down the road Salazar released Becerrillo and commanded him to take her
>As she was charged by the dog, the old woman dropped to her knees and prayed "Please, my Lord Dog. I am on my way to take this letter to Christians. I beg you, my Lord Dog, please do not hurt me."
>According to witnesses, Becerrillo stopped short and regarded the woman intently. He sniffed at the woman and the paper in her hands, before turning away, lifting a leg, and marking her with urine.
>He stood by as the woman returned unharmed to the Spanish troops. Upon his arrival, Ponce de León was informed of what had occurred. He commanded the troops, "Free her and send her safely back to her people. Then let us leave this place for now. I will not permit the compassion and forgiveness of a dog to outshine that of a true Christian."

In Afghanistan we had a dog named Tyson. He bit people. Mals are fucking gnarly.

>>64096232 (OP)
>They proved to be dreadfully effective weapons against Aztec
Correct
>and Inca troops
Dogs weren't used, couldn't afford them or something

>>64096232 (OP)
Look at the one on the right. He's so happy to be part of the crew.

Look at those absolute units.

>>64096328
Morale: MAXIMUM

>>64096232 (OP)
we call him the mauler of moors
he's a very good boy

>>64096296
They are quite the different creature compared to sniffer doggos who are usually best boys, attack dogs are scary motherfuckers that just wake up every day asking where them brown people at and please let me bite one.

>capt
>DOG4HP

I'd love to adopt a former police dog.

>>64098903
>attack dogs are scary motherfuckers that just wake up every day asking where them brown people at and please let me bite one.
Cuban mastiffs were a thing, they were explicitly bread and trained to hunt down runaway slaves.
The breed died out with the abolition of slavery in Cuba, the dogs being interbred with other dogs until the distinct breed disappeared.

>>64098911
You think you do but you don’t. Many of them are extremely high energy dogs and depending on their work role may have stress disorders. You’re better off looking for a dog that flunked out of police training, many wash out due to low aggression but tend to still be pretty smart compared to the average dog. On top of that if youve not dealt with dogs with a strong pursuit drive you’re kinda fucked if you lose control of one and it decides to run someone down

>>64096232 (OP)
>The Aztecs had only ever seen little Chihuahuas that they used primarily for food
How does this work, obviously chihuahuas were bred from larger dogs going all the way back to wolves, that's how dogs work, where are the lost mesoamerican working sized dogs

>>64096258
>paid a wage
what does a dog even do with a wage

>>64099118
The same as any other member of the military. Booze, hookers, blow, and a Dodge Charger at 32% APR

>>64098911
you're a retard.

every dog that killed a pagan or cannibal is godly even if they know not what they did

>>64099100
>How does this work, obviously chihuahuas were bred from larger dogs going all the way back to wolves, that's how dogs work, where are the lost mesoamerican working sized dogs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogs_in_Mesoamerica

Much like US vs. european McDonald's meal sizes, the mesoamerican "large" was spanish "medium" and the rest were happy meal sized.

>>64099216
I think anon is inquiring to their missing link
Before we had lap dogs we had working sheep dogs by a long margin (although the Romans had small dogs so I don't know when they had come about in europe)

>>64099118
Most probably Salazar pocketed it.

>>64099118
Nta but I do hope he bought his dog some game meat.

>>64099216
>>64099361
>>64096232 (OP)
The aztecs didn't do much pastoral work in general, the majority of meat they ate was hunted deer (like 90+% of it)

>>64096328
>>64098816
They are good boys.

>>64099124
lul at 32% APR. God help them.

>>64099124
who the fuck is gonna underwrite a car loan to a dog in the Spanish Caribbean in the 1500s

>>64099657
A sale is a sale, and i get my comission sooner than he fails payments.

>>64096258
>During the course of the half-hour-long battle, Becerrillo alone killed thirty-three of the native attackers
10HD dog

>>64099657
Oh man, you underestimate banks and salesmen. If they can get you in debt, they will.

>>64099670
bro I don't think they have same day bank transfers clearing there, you'll be redeeming your promissory notes in 3-6 business years

>>64098911
No you fucking don’t. If you want a guard dog you’re looking for an even balanced dog with some prey and defensive drive like a Rottweiler. Attack dogs like Mals and working line shepherds are extremely prey driven and all the things that make a good attack dog make a shitty pet.

>>64099682
>issue lump sum in credit to dog
>clerk dies of scurvy on the way back to Venice
>English privateers raid the galleon and lose the papers
gg no re

>>64099657
jews

>>64099216
>>64099100
Heat.
In North America there were any range of dog types including many pulling and water dogs that created the basis for some Huskies and all your Lab/Goldens. One of the interesting breeds was two-part dog breed with a recessive gene that would produce wooly dogs one way and hairless dogs the other. The wooly ones were sheared (hence the very, very rare Native dog hair blankets) and sometimes eaten; the hairless raised for breeding more woolies and meat. Some of this line of mostly West Coast dogs became the Xoloicuintli, Chihuahua and other Mesoamerican breeds, and the Chinese Crested.
>>64099694
>all the things that make a good attack dog make a shitty pet
And a worse guardian dog.
>t. have LGDs including one with some huskie/malinois/shepherd and she's fucking impossible sometimes

>>64099694
Shut up. Police training kennels often offer adoption of completely trained females they have decided to breed or a choice of puppy they will completely train for in in return for housing the pregnant mom up to delivery.
Former police dogs, military dogs, service dogs like Shepards, retrievers and the like make absolutely wonderful pets. And the added bonus they are trained and can defend a home or loved one.
Often the usual suspect gaurd dog breeds that its "built in" will run the fuck away during a break in or attack as they are not used to that kind of commotion and stress.
Mastiff, Coso, preso, rotties are all great family dogs but definitely DO require gaurd and defense training

>>64099694
>all the things that make a good attack dog make a shitty pet.
This is partially correct and partially wrong. Working line shepherds have a ton of energy and work drive and need that used up constantly, both mental and physical effort, and you need to have a clear delineation between work and normal life to adequately train them while avoiding potential conflicts in how they react. You also need to have a very good understanding and strong control of your animals at all times. You can walk them without a leash and have them ignore shit like rabbits running past, unless they think they can get away with acting out.
They're fantastic pets but much more high maintenance and more difficult to handle, which also results in a stupidly loyal and obedient dog if done correctly.
>t. Got 2 i use for work as we speak, have had 4 total
Pic rel, the younger of the two. Peak retard.

>>64099118
He probably kept it and maybe, if he wasn't a complete faggot, used at least come of it for treat meat for em and maybe

>>64099695
It was a better time.

And the older fart. Their temperaments are very different, but they get along and work well.
>>64099753
Oh and i forgot to mention - keep white women away from your dogs if at all possible. Black and brown ones keep away on their own.

>>64096274
That never happened.

>>64099732
>B-but this police program
Yeah just going to assume most of them are detection oriented
>Pregnant females
Cool so they sit in their nests 24 hours a day and avoid contact
>Theyll even give you a puppy!
Which you won’t train because its a pain in the ass
>Former police dogs like labs
A lab isn’t an attack dog
>German shepherds and mals
The only herders hitting the civilian market are going to be 10+ years old, shot out joints, teeth wriggling loose, and even after a year or so of a rehab program it’s still going to be so conditioned to prey and ball obsession that random shit is going to get you lit up.
>Guard breed built in will bitch out
Correct 90+% of any breed working line or not is going to at best bark and hopefully scare the shit out of a burglar but won’t put tooth to skin. We aren’t talking about that though. We’re talking about working line dogs already trained to rip out a humans tricep when they see them running away. Which means every actual jogger that passes you by on a walk is another fucking target.

>>64099753
I’m well acquainted with GSDs. What work do you do with them? Because the working dogs I’ve been around all had dominance issues, resource guarding, or hyper reactivity to a degree which outside of a professionally trained handler would all predictably end with a dog coming up the leash. Average retard can’t tell the difference between an amped up dog yipping in prey mode and wanting to smash the first thing with a pulse it can find and one smashing the bass in his bark trying to intimidate something in defense mode.

>>64099783
Do I respond to your counterpoints that are based on your inability to comprehend what you read or just call you a faggot?
Faggot.

>>64099822
Are you just wrong or are you a faggot? Faggot.

>>64099810
Sounds a lot like you are not very good at dog training.
Post pic of your current working and pet dogs.

>>64099831
Well considering I have owned a retired police dog, blue tick hounds, retired service dogs, Rotties, working line DDR shepherds, mastiffs and more id say based on my experience and your comments I know a fuck of a lot more on the subject than you.
You smell a bit like a low grade government kennel type.

>>64099834
My bird dog. Elhew pointer. Didn’t have enough run in him to be a field trial prospect and I don’t like riding horses. Good quail and grouse dog though. Doesn’t put enough pressure on pheasants for my taste but that’s more my fault than his. Had to deal with K9s on deployment and spent about 3 weeks fucking around a local club deciding if I wanted to invest the time and energy into an IPO dog. Girlfriend got pregnant and that decision was made for me. In retrospect yeah fuck that it is a massive time, money, and energy suck and a massive liability that I would never place with your average owner.

>>64099855
Forgot pic
>>64099841
>Retired police dog
Was it an interdiction K9 though? Seems to be a whole lot of tap dancing around the question.
>Rotties
Have that trait where they don’t want anyone but their handler to touch their collar but is this a trained working dog?
>DDR Shepherds
Trained working dog?
>Mastiffs
Trained working dog?
>I know-
Fuck all because you’re comparing house pets half of which probably had forged pedigrees (as evidenced by your claim about DDR line shep because every fucking faggot that throws that out these days can’t tell the difference between a DDR and Czech dog and if they knew the fucking difference they wouldn’t bring it up since they had so much overlap in their breeding programs anyway)
>B-but it’s sable!
Yeah cool just call it a working line GSD because the DDR hasn’t existed for 35 years at this point and the dogs that came out of there have all been dead since the Bush administration. That debate is so fucking gay.

>>64096232 (OP)
Poor doggers, dogs and horses and donkeys are too kind hearted to be used in war. We're a shit species.

Actually saw one run down a guy with a shotgun, ragged him to get him to drop it
then dragged him into a ditch and had to be convinced to hand the new toy/snack over to me and not eat the guy

>>64096232 (OP)
Does perro always mean dog in Spanish? My spic coworkers keep saying this and even as an insult to me it sounds weird af phrase to say.

>>64096232 (OP)
Japan has used little Shiba to harry and stalk boars https://showsightmagazine.com/judging-the-shiba-inu/#

How are they able to get a dog to charge an animal that outweighs it ten to one? Especially a dog who’s modern descendants are famous for having panic attacks when bathed?

>>64099939
That’s why you carry a sidearm

>>64096232 (OP)
It would be funny to see how bad the Aztecs tortured whatever dogs they caught alive

>>64100075
Show bred vs field bred strikes again.

>>64099118
I imagine that it was probably used by the handler to provide better conditions, bitches, and meat

>>64100075
again the gay dog posting

>>64099810
Sorry, nodded off. Security work with SAR if it comes up in the free time. Usually it's just patrols, but if there's an incident in our area we're almost always called in since most people prefer to not get bit.
I've only hit dominance issues with one dog, and that was the first one as he got up in age and his brain started to go. I think the key is to get it instilled early and to reinforce it often that I am the controlling individual in every aspect. Dedicated eye contact before getting to eat, halt before we open the gate to go out for walks, let go of the ball and back away if i say so, shit like that.
We train for work just about every week, as well, which i think is important to maintaining that discipline.
Other than that any challenges or snubbings are rare, and if they happen it often necessitates a physical response. Not hitting them, I'm not a barbarian, but decidedly pinning them by the scruff, belly-up until the 'fight' has gone out of them. As said though, very rare.
I can't speak for others exactly, but there are some people thar simply cannot adequately train their dogs for things like this, and you see it often during the repeated suitability tests we take overseen by the police - a lot don't make the cut. They don't follow in lockstep, don't stay when told, don't recall properly or don't let go of a bite when commanded, show too much or little aggression, etc. Which is sad, but such is life if you do not train them properly.

>>64098911
If based or retarded enough, try testing what language it knows
Try saying cocaine and see if it gives you a ptsd look.

>>64096258
>chewed up indio beandips ancestors
good pup. have a milkbone

>>64099100
The chihuahua's ancestors were beagle size before being claimed by the Aztecs and being bred smaller.

>>64099884
You type like a total fag. Don't autism post sentence by sentence. We learned this when we were 12 on BBS boards, zoom zoom.

>>64100140
They say Shiba nearly went extinct after ww2 and got bred weird
https://www.voanews.com/a/east-asia-pacific_once-almost-extinct-japan-dog-breed-thrives-taiwan/6180318.html
Maybe that’s why they’re so spergy nowadays? Only a few are still suitable for hunting because all the warrior got bred out of them?
>>64100171
>bitches
lol
>>64100885
Better now?

>>64099884
You not being able to train a dog does not mean others can not.

>>64098968
Can't we just bake some new ones?

i used to live in an area of rural spain where all the farmers had at least one of these to protect their livestock from wolves. they're fucking MASSIVE, and could easily fuck you up if their owner insisted. i've never felt intimidated by a dog before, even by a german shepherd or rottweiler, until i went to someone's house that had one of these roaming around

>>64100978
>bred smaller

>Keep dog for meat
>Make it smaller

?

>>64099118
Ask your mom

>>64096232 (OP)
>>64096258
>>64096274
>with 200 pound armores Mastiffs

This won't undo the Moor rape genes Sanchez.

>>64098968
A lot of those Mastiff and Catch Dogs tended to die out over the years, they're large, expensive to feed and can be interesting to socialise outside of their family group. Still have a fairly reasonable catch dog community here for pig hunting in Australia but they tend to be cross breeds of Rott, Dane and sometimes a bit of Ridgeback, some type of Mastiff or Dobe mixed in with them. Long time ago now but I was 'gifted' a catch dog from a guy who I used to do contract pest control on his property, he was a hilarious dog that was Dane dad and Rottweiler mum that was the friendliest dog you'd ever meet, looked like a 200lb black and tan barrel with huge legs and a head the size of a bucket. Wouldn't chase animals or bite anyone though! (which might have been a good thing in hindsight)

Someone turned up, he'd just woof and then go sit down, jobs done

>>64101972
>Keep dog for meat
>Make it smaller
>?

They didnt have freezers or fridges back then, you dont want the dog to have more meat than what you can eat before it goes bad. Think rotisserie chicken sized

>>64099963
No he’s using it to mean “but”.

>>64101972
as a rule of thumb the bigger the animal the worse ratio on feed to meat you get

>>64102252
Execept that was from Roman times, no andalusia. G25 proves it, by the 900s the muslims on iberia were European muslims of visigothic and iberian stock.

T.White Muslim who wants mass deporations

>>64102481
>T.White Muslim
Spain?

>>64096258
jesus christ, that should be a dark depressing movie

>>64096274
>According to witnesses, Becerrillo stopped short and regarded the woman intently. He sniffed at the woman and the paper in her hands, before turning away, lifting a leg, and marking her with urine.
you just know that's not all that happened

>>64102481
Genetic clusters in Andalus are similar to what they were, you see actually genetics up north because of the moriscos moving there

>>64102506
No, Anglo convert in America. I want all latinx and blacks gone, my Ancestors did not conquere these kufir demon worshippers for nothing

>>64102520
revert* my bad

>>64099118
bitches, obliviously

>>64102520
T.White Muslim who wants mass deporations

You go with them

>>64100967
Very based
>>64100987
Ill take that as “no none of my dogs were ever trained to bite” and call it a win then
>>64101085
This is the case with a lot of working breeds. WW2 and the decline in hunting and need for guard work in favor of primarily pet owners in many countries really fucked things up for a lot of breeds from a working standpoint. Having to rebuild from abysmally small genetic pools was hard. The dark truth in dog breeding is that every famous program you have ever heard of got that way by culling puppies that weren’t up to snuff ruthlessly and being very picky about where they placed dogs. They put their best prospects in the best position to succeed and buried the rest. When you hear about this line or that line being great the truth is they produced plenty of scrubs like everyone else. Culling wasn’t an option for a while after the war for a lot of breeders and greatly eroded the quality. Nowadays breeders just sell puppies with limited registration thankfully but they have the numbers to get away with that. After WW2 some breeds were down to a few dozen individuals if that and outcrosses were required in a lot of cases. The ones that weren’t outcrossed largely have increased medical issues that still plague the breeds to this day. BRTs and Giant Schnauzers are a good example of this. Red Star Kennel euthanized most of their dogs when the USSR collapsed and its highly debated but I’m personally in the camp that most of the surviving BRTs are recreations with maybe a few black market deals preserving the original genetics which have been pretty thoroughly bred down at this point. If commissar wanted puppy he got puppy. Not enough commissars wanted puppies though. Reading what a lot of the old guys have to say about the giant schnauzers that came from East Germany after the Cold War ended it was like a grass fire. Bright, beautiful, and over too quickly.

>>64099100
>>64099361
Not necessarily. Dogs don't need to be bigger in the past even considering their wolf ancestry. The current Shiba Inu is the closest living relative to an extinct species of japanese pygmy wolf which is described to be basically the same size as current day Shiba dogs.

>>64102481
>>64102516
You forgot that Spain was also raped before Roman times.

>>64099657
Any buy here pay here dealership

If you had enough time and money, could you domesticate a tiger? Or maybe a lion?

Imagine having armored battle tigers on your side

>>64102683
Lions would be easier because of their social structures but generally no cats are not very trainable.

>>64102515
>you just know
Does it also apply to mesoamericans?

>>64099657
A Genoese banker, so yes (((them)))

>>64096274
>>64099774
>>64102515
NTA but my old dog kinda disliked my new dog and didn't want her near him until he did that (though I don't think it was on purpose) and afterwards he accepted her.

>>64099100
Aren’t chihuahuas more related to foxes or coyotes?

>>64102843
No.

>>64102653
They barely had control over it and Carthage was taken over by Germanic vandals after the fall of Rome

For me, it's Waffles. She's and infiltrator. She uses her sweetness to trick you, and then destroys all your sensitive documents.

>>64096258
what breed of dog was it? bull mastiff?

>>64102683
They are too tarded for that and too unreliable even if thoroughly trained. You'd have an easier time with brown bears

>>64107061
imagine riding a giant bear into battle

>>64102683
Have you ever heard the expression "it's like herding cats"?

>>64099517
They ate a lot of amphibians too but those were also hunted not farmed.

>>64099657
Nissan

>>64102811
My puppy always pisses on his mothers ass whenever she comes back from a show.

>>64102604
When i went to the congo the villagers would trade me dogs for shitty watches. One was tied up ready to be cooked for eating someones food. He was the cheapest dog i ever bought
Too bad akc hated their tails and temperment cause the breed had like a dozen founders and domestics are inbreed. Now that ive gotten out of basenjis all the grandbabies are winning bigly

My dad was a cop and did both Schutzhund and PSA with his dogs as a hobby. Schutzhund is full of cops and LARPerator types. PSA is niggers and felons with junkyard dogs. Schutz is way harder and the dogs are way better trained.

>>64099118
It's bullshit hype when they say this.

>>64099657
Jews

>>64096232 (OP)
>draw a picture to depict vicious war hounds
>make them look like friendly pets playing dress up
I can't hate it though

Bump for war dog oif stories

>>64102683
Cats just don't give enough of a fuck about the social structure needed for training. It's a cool concept though.

>>64096232 (OP)
>white, Spanish

>>64102481
>White Muslim
You're going with them, scum.

>>64110247
They probably are friendly enough looking when out of battle and with their handlers

Its the thing with dogs, they can look perfectly friendly/cute but also then like demonic beasts when they bare their teeth and get their warface on.

Wonder why pic related never took off?