Thread 64104369

*literally mogs every gun ever made*

the prototype was pure kino

>>64104369 (OP)
>is literally outclassed by its own brother, the F2000

>>64104388
>>64104394
what the fuck
>>64104429
Not in the most crucial metric, style factor

>>64104441
>style factor
F2000 is pure sex though. p90 is pretty cool but having a rifle that can fire 5 rounds without ejecting the shell casings can be used strategically for basketball american purposes, but for whites.

>>64104447
I know there's no accounting for taste, but this really is one of the most hideous firearms ever designed.

>>64104453
Forward ejection kino. Forward or downward should be standard

>>64104453
it's 10x better with a different muzzle device and not having that wack as fuck optic on it.

>>64104369 (OP)
Everyone thinks this until they actually hold or shoot one for the first time. They're trash

>>64104453
same person as >>64104460 and
>>64104447
old picture, but this is mine, I've since changed the optic and the muzzle device.

>>64104458
It's not worth the rest of it.
>>64104460
Disagree. It's just chunky in all the wrong ways.

>>64104447
they sell brass catchers for the p90

>>64104462
i hold mine every night. its so comfy
youre very wrong

Bullpups sound good in theory and on paper but they’re BTFOed in every way by semi-bullpup guns with MP7 architecture, for a slight penalty in capacity and OAL (only with the stock deployed.)

>>64104462
I’ve held one at battlefield Vegas but passed on the opportunity to shoot it (buddy I was with shot it). It was deceptively large. It’s a big, bulky, super wide gun that weighs like 6 pounds. It’s like twice as big as it needs to be for what it is. Do you really need 6 pounds of shit to facilitate launching some light .224 projectiles at 2,000fps? The p90 should’ve been an MP7 in 5.7x28. And with recoil operation instead of gas operation to permit an even shorter and lighter receiver. Atleast that way you get something that can be passively worn on your person, totally hands-free, instead of just an even worse assault rifle with all the same bulk and cumbersomeness to carry but with none of external and terminal ballistics of an intermediate cartridge.

>>64104501
The P90 IS recoil operated. And the MP7 needs a huge long magazine to reach the same high capacity, ruining its compact nature. The MP7 also has its own shit ergo issues like the stock and the nasty charging handle, the P90 only compromises on the grip angle and you can just get the fuck over that.

>>64104501
>recoil operation instead of gas operation to permit an even shorter and lighter receiver
Nonsense, a recoil operation deliberately uses up some receiver space for the moving barrel, gas operation is inherently more compact.

>>64104526
>p90 is recoil operated.

I know, I was saying it should be more like an mp7, except the mp7 is gas operated.

>mp7 stock and charging handle suck
I’ve heard this too, but it’s not a problem innate to mag-in-grip architecture. HK could totally have made a charging handle that does not come out by itself and hit the shooter in the nose. As far as the grip, it’s only chambering a 1.5” long cartridge - that’s nothing. It could be made extremely ergonomic. Look how small and inviting the grip of the PSA 57 rock is. No reason the MP7 can’t use a similar grip. Also, 5.7 has zero taper and would play much better with a straight magazine unlike the curved mag of the 4.6.

>>64104535
>gas operation is inherently more compact.

No because the length of BCG+bolt in the extended position (the position it’s in during the rear stroke) is quite a bit longer than a simple one-piece bolt. So not only is it longer, but it also has to move a greater distance to clear the rim of the top cartridge in the magazine. The extra receiver space necessitated by a moving barrel is only like 0.2-0.3” long, it’s nothing.

Just compare the receiver length of an MP7 to what would be the receiver length of a 5.7 pistol. The grip and barrel should be roughly in the same position relative to eachother, but the pistol’s slide’s most rearward position is not that far behind the grip. Ergo, if this was an upper receiver, it would be much shorter than the rotating bolt version.

>>64104526
It's blowback. Recoil operation is different.

>>64104549
NTA. Let’s just say for the purposes of this discussion that blowback is recoil operation. It’s an action operated by the case head pushing on the bolt.

>>64104554
Recoil operation uses a locked bolt, it's more similar to gas operation than blowback.

>>64104560
I know, that’s why I said “for the purposes of this discussion”, because what I really mean is “a form of autoloading operation that doesn’t require a long rotating bolt.”

>>64104540
The mag in grip isnt the issue with the MP7, its that its a mini G36 system. Gas operation on a pipsqueak caliber is a lot to ask but it works because HK finetunes to their own ammo production, but the bolt and bolt carrier design necessitates weird solutions in general, 4.6 is a dead end caliber, and if you want to change it to 9mm you just get a worse MP9. Meanwhile 5.7 is actually sell established, and the magazine arrangement on the P90 is one of its best features and why theres been several guns using it now, like the AR57 and the P50.

reminder

>>64104467
Holy shit, an actual gun owner, how big is your cock bro?

>>64104453
Gud for shootin aliens until they can be nuked from orbit.

>>64104642
>lots of words about how 4.6 is dogshit

At no point did I ever say anything nice about 4.6x30mm, lol. I happen to think both cartridges are dogshit, and agree with the assessment of the guys on the Delphis forums, who have dubbed the present incarnation of PDWs as “emotional support weapons”. That said, 5.7 is the least bad of the two. But the MP7 architecture is IMO superior to the p90. Smaller, lighter, more ergonomic, controls are (or can be placed in) intuitive places, center of mass is in a better place. Basically it’s a pistol with an upper receiver, not an entirely new species of firearm. Plus you can holster it, which is (or should be) prerequisite of a PDW, cause otherwise you are always better served carrying a rifle, even if it’s a nerfed 5.56.

>MP7-styled rear ejecting rising chamber PDW chambered for a .204 CT with >100k psi chamber pressure
Why wouldn't it work?

>>64104369 (OP)

What about the ST50? It also comes with a jungle clip.

They're also working on an FRT mod for it. Imagine a jungled FRT st50 with a folding stock. What a time to be alive

>>64105084

Sorry, "comes with" might be misleading. I mean you can get a jungle clip, not that it comes with one by default

>>64104707
like 6" max.
never actually measured it but it aint big I can promise you that

>>64104669
Never forget what they took from you.

>>64105056
I had the same idea. If the chamber moves up and down instead of the bolt moving back and forth, and the cartridge has a uniform cross section, there’s no reason you couldn’t feed it into the chamber from the front. The MP7 would suddenly gain a far more potent chambering and with an ~11” barrel for no overall length increase. In its collapsed state, it would infact be *more* length efficient than a true bullpup. There would be only a tiny bit of space between the breech and the end of the receiver.

I think I was talking to you in the other thread about CT, 100kpsi, stellite, etc.

>>64104870
You don't understand anon, the MP7 is only shaped the way it is because it's gas operated and tailored to the 4.6mm caliber. There's been grip mag SMGs since forever.

>>64105326
What is the 4.6 if not a skinny and bottlenecked version of a pistol cartridge? Like, topologically they’re the same, so why can’t they make a more ergonomic version of it like 9mm mag-in-grip guns?

>>64104467
im probably going to scale back on mine, just wanted to see how a nods capable one would handle

>>64105330
I think it has to do with feeding at high rof. Pretty sure there's a reason every mag-in-grip SMG since the dawn of time has had a straight vertical mag. Also probably has something to do with ergonomics of shouldering a folding stock vs holding it straight out in front of you.

>>64105166
How about this idea: A CT rifle with a revolving chamber, it feeds from the front and then ejects back out the front with gas pressure.

>>64104453
Not buying this when they were in production is one of my all time greatest firearms regrets.

>>64104526
To play Devil's advocate, with the MP7 you can run a small mag and then swap.
With the P90 you are stuck with the size factor

>>64105330
It's genuinely way smaller than 5.7 and has a pretty stark bottleneck, but it shouldn't be a problem since the first thing FN did was put it in a pistol. HK however, failed at making the UDP work.

>>64104669
This pisses me off so much. Imagine being able to print your own cases.

>>64105084
This would go hard hunting hogs and nogs.

>>64104369 (OP)
Is the magazine design patented or something?
Hard to believe it still hasn't been copied. It's pretty great honestly, more reliable than you would expect.

>>64105415
It was 50 years ago. It's long expired now.

>>64104486
tranny gun makes sense

>>64104429
Sam Fisher would like to have a word with you.

>>64105398
>HK failed at making the UDP work
4.6x30 in a ~5” barrel is a hilarious proposition. It’s already quite terrible out of the mp7.

It’s not that much smaller than 5.7. only 0.1” shorter, that’s all. What does the bottleneck have to do with anything? Wouldn’t this just make it easier to feed?

Btw, that third cartridge from the left - the 5.56 MARS - is what the 5.7 and 4.6 should have been. Instead it was chambered in a regular AR with a slightly shorter receiver. Inb4 it’s too long to feed through the grip. Nah, it’s not, a COAL of 1.8” is possible with a grip depth of 2.15”

>>64104369 (OP)
>PDWs enter service due to fears paratroopers in body armour will be running around behind the lines
>everyone realizes this isn't going to happen at any scale worth a dedicated gun and calibre
>carbines offer the same capability in a slightly larger package without needing a special cartridge
There are some really cool PDWs out there but they are an even bigger dead end than SMGs, at least SMGs are great for LEO that are unlikely to face armour and don't pose the same over-pen risk as PDWs and carbines.

>>64105558
Sam Fisher used an F2000 in all of the first three games, IIRC

>>64105611
He did indeed.
I just wanted to make a Splinter Cell reference.
Now in Chaos Theory, the Shadownet mercenaries were equipped with a modified P90 that fired shocker rounds only.

>>64105609
The Russians *not* attacking cost us further developement of one of the coolest species of gun.

>>64105619
I really wish Ubisoft hadn't driven every single tom clancy series into the ground.
Splinter Cell and Ghost Recon defined my teenage years.

>>64104369 (OP)
So is the only thing keeping the barrel from falling out a little pin on the shroud?

Couldn't they just make it screw on to the end of the actual barrel underneath?

>>64105609
though special forces ended up loving PDWs because they're perfect for covert details and shitting out huge amounts of rounds without being uncontrollable or too concussive.

They offer the same benefit as SMGs of being easier to shoot accurately for critical shots at short-mid ranges while staying compact, but can switch to being bullet hoses, and the overpen can help in cases of cluttered spaces if you just don't give a shit.

>>64105998
No? The blind pin makes the shroud follow ATF rules about being permanently attached. The barrel screws into the shroud and the shroud remains in place since it cannot turn in place due the lack of clearances between it and the receiver.

>>64104388
>literally mogs ever-*ACK*

>>64104462
>They're trash

>>64104369 (OP)
>Muh globohomo committee gun in 22 zogbot
I won't even do my usual routine, any other gun is better than that POS

>>64105084
>that triangle folding stock
hot

>>64105398
I wish HK had made the 4.6mm pistol.

I also wish that Savage had made the bolt action 5.7mm that they promised.

>>64107538
Why does the genius have a retarded bowl haircut?

>>64105084
Conceptualizing one as an ST-R50 right now with what will be a front block sight, flashlight, rear folding sight, & folding stock

>>64105084
>>64110193
we are stupid fucking close to having a pdw57 I can taste it

>>64110534
Just need a chassis for the ST-50 AR grip

>>64104388
>>64104394
Reminds me of the Vector prototype.

>>64114745
Lmao. Is that for real the vector prototype?

>>64114830
Yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGdhHZLN9-s

>>64114745
if that worked out, why didnt they just bulpup it

>>64104369 (OP)
>cannot penetrate the thin tungesten plates of russian paratrooper armor

>high recoil
>run out of ammo in 3 seconds
>painful reloading process

>>64118224
>Tungsten body armor
Imagine how much it would weigh.

>>64105743
Anon, Raven Sheild with the planned missions and timing and after action reports. I mean I think there were only 7 possible per team member but still.

>>64114745
tardinest retard thing that ever retarded itself into existence

>>64104462
Wrong.

>>64104501
>It was deceptively large. It’s a big, bulky, super wide gun

I'll give you wide, but I have no idea how you could find it "big, bulky" unless it's one of these 16" barrel cope monstrosities.
It's as short as an MP5 with its stock collapsed, which is VERY short.

>>64118235
>painful reloading process
Unless you mean loading the mags themselves, I think you might actually have some form of motoric impairment, because it's easy as fuck.

>high recoil
Oh wait you've never touched one, nevermind.

if israel doesn't use it, it's shit.

>>64119551
How odd. It looks tiny in that picture but I remember it being gargantuan lol. Fair point, it’s not overly long. But yeah it is still wide and heavy (for what it is). I also hate how cramped it feels, with both hands on the gun an inch away from eachother, but that is to be expected from all short-barreled bullpups.

>>64119551
Impeccable taste

>>64114745
>>64114890
if this was bullpup'd, it would be like the suppressed pistol from deus ex and I want that shit too

>>64104453
first time I saw this was playing stalker shadow of chernobyl, the F2000 has that OICW weird bulky prototype, it will always be cool in my eyes

>>64104453
The beretta tactical tuna look worse

What about its pistol little brother? Is there any reason to own a Five Seven in 2025?

>>64124330
if you already have a p90 sure, on its own no

>>64124330
Overpriced. Many cheaper alternatives available now.

>>64124330
PSA 57 rock > every other 5.7 pistol. My gay state doesn’t let me own one, and I’m so angry about it.

>>64119556
I heard that US Secret Service (the only armed unit in the country that gets to choose its own weapons) chose the P90. And I think this was already pre-Trump and his pussy-tier SS.

>>64105998
Even if that were true, remember that Japanese katanas are also held together by one bamboo pin in the handle.

>>64109894
same reason he's in monk robes

>>64114705

Damn that looks sexy