Thread 64104969

I don't care for the FN Fal
not racist, just don't like em

>>64104969 (OP)
I don't care for battle rifles in general. They're in between 2 things and not very good at either. Also I am racist.

>>64104969 (OP)
same.
I have nothing against the FAL, but I don't fancy it much.
I much prefer the look of the G3 rifles.
However SA58's look pretty cool

>>64104969 (OP)
90% of people who bitch about squishy triggers on striker pistols or bullpups can't shoot well enough for it to matter and are just parroting opinions to look more experienced

1-4x LPVOs are a dumb fucking meme.

>>64104969 (OP)
Taurus and Keltec are based and I’m tired of pretending they’re not.

>>64104969 (OP)
The pivot pin is hideous. Completely ruins the aesthetics.

>>64105253
>1-4x
Didn't even realize that was a thing. That is pants on head retarded.

>>64105142
g3 ugly

>>64105300
There were a few years where 1-4x was The Hotness that was going to dethrone ACOGs as the standard for intermediate range combat optics. I stuck with my ACOG+red dot combo and got shit for it. In the last few years more people have realized that 1-4x needs a mini red dot on top and is in practical terms a fixed 4x+red dot with extra steps.

>>64105306
Heresy

>>64105340
needs the carry handle

>>64104969 (OP)
The M16A2 was the right choice in development of the AR and people who bitch about it's ""issues"" are fat mentally deficient faggots.

>>64105455
it is an objective fact that the barrel profile was chosen based on a problem that further studies proved didn't actually exist

>>64105320
Seems like even dot + mag would be better than 1-4.

>>64105455
Burst fire was gay and retarded, had it been full auto or just kept the A1 lower then it'd be peachy. Heavy barrel is dumb but okay

>>64104969 (OP)
>not racist
that is why you don't like the FN Fal.

>>64105475
IMO, red dot + magnifier is when you are close quarters focused but tack on a little something to help with longer range. Fixed mag + mini red dot is medium distance focused but tack on a little something to help with close quarters. The LPVO directly competes more with the fixed mag setup, whereas the red dot with magnifier has a different priority.

So if you were meant to be a CQB focused doorkicker as your main job, you should pick red dot + magnifier over either LPVO or fixed mag. If you are primarily a soldier in open area firefights you should pick fixed mag if given the choice over a red dot. That's just how I see it from my shreds of experience and talking to guys

>>64105455
Burst fire and target sights are shit.

>>64105455
Its burst mode was so bad the military changed its doctrine to tell soldiers to use it on semi-auto only.

why the fuck don’t you like em?? It’s a solid rifle all around.

>>64104969 (OP)
>not racist,
If you were racist, then you'd love "the right arm of the free world," which killed as many Africans as the AK, maybe more.

>>64105548
It's French and thus gay, the hyperburst feature is a meme, it spits oil directly into your fucking face, everytime you disassemble it for cleaning your run a good chance of fucking up the bedding and this your zero, it only accepts proprietary optics mounting, the open bolt full auto to closed bolt semi functioning is needlessly stupid and complex

>>64105565
>It's French and thus gay
The FN FAL is Belgian.

>>64105574
FN = FRENCH NATIONAL

>>64104969 (OP)
I spare you the rape today, but watch your ass, for I may not tomorrow. My controversial opinion is the opposite. I do not care for the G3 for the same reason. The G3 was a perfectly okay rifle for the time though and better than the FAL in many ways.
>>64105564
>which killed as many Africans as the AK, maybe more
I doubt that.

>>64105565
Fair enough, also the oil spitting in the face is meant to mimic cum so the rifle can turn you gay. French don’t like to play fair.

>>64105564
>FAL killed niggers
>AK killed niggers

So we’re just pretending glizzies don’t have a nigger body count in the millions by now? Picrel mightaswell be a Saint, having done more than Margaret Sanger to keep America from becoming South Africa.

>>64105142
Have both. G3 is Portuguese with a collapsible stock, FAL a Brazilian fixed.
The G3 is def. cooler looking in my opinion, but the FAL is a million times more pleasant to shoot.
It's seriously not even close.
The collapsible stock G3 is just about the most uncomfortable thing I've ever encountered in the firearms hobby sphere.
I can't remember the last time I shot it without the light weight bolt carrier group and those funny blue plastic training rounds, because it's just such a bruiser.

>>64105581
>The G3 was a perfectly okay rifle for the time though and better than the FAL in many ways.
This.
Younger me would consider this blasphemy. But that screw piece on my FAL which keep both halves together and allows it to pivot is getting worn. The rear sights needed to be on the same half as the barrel and front sights. I know, I know, get a scope. But I love the iron sights.
I used to dread taking apart the G3 because idiot me loved pushing the bolt into the bolt carrier and it doesn't pull back out. After getting tired of twisting, disassembling, reassembling, I finally stopped pushing it in. But that was a hard habit to break.
As both rifles (and I) get older, the G3 is the one I prefer to shoot. It's not leaps and bounds better, just slightly.
But neither can have a smooth two stage trigger upgrade as easily as the slightly more modern AR. And technology didn't stop with the AR. Newer guns continue to have new features. Better and more rapid caliber conversions are great.
But I still love my FAL and G3.

>>64105574
Fabriquie Nationale is French because they speak French and the Belgian French speakers are dicks

Hard mode: try not to reply or refute edition
>scar 16s/17s are not good, even if they were half the cost like their superior competitors
>red dots on pistols is gay and retarded and anyone who bought a red dot for their pistol often does whatever social media tells them to do
>if someone says they shoot X number of rounds a week/month/year, divide that number by 20 to get how much they actually shoot
>snub nose revolvers don't make any sense, especially ones with shrouded hammers
>m14/m1a mags are tricky to reload under any kind of stress, and those online who disagree either have never held or shot or owned an m1a, or if they happened to have rented one before they took their sweet time reloading it and probably fucked up seating the mag a few times
>underfolder aks are awful and do nothing that a side folder does better
>5.45 is better than 5.56 in all ways except, now, cost and availability
>wood stocks on hunting rifles are a fashion statement by people who spend more time talking about their hunting gun then actually using it
ultimate meme arrow
>not all, but the majority of laymen who describe themselves as /k/, super pro 2a, preppers, etc all live their lives in utter fear of everything and are living wasted lives

>>64105578
>FN = FRENCH NATIONAL
Fabrique Nationale means National Factory.

>>64105581
>I doubt that.
You shouldn't. The UN troops and Rhodesians had much better aim than the communist darkies that wanted to kill their own people. Its why the communist darkies resorted to starvation tactics.

>>64105616
>So we’re just pretending glizzies don’t have a nigger body count in the millions by now?
Mr. Glock tried his best, but currently both North America and Western Europe are becoming brown.

>>64104976
>Also I am racist
maybe but there's no such thing as a 'battle rifle'

>>64105340
>>64105418
anons of discernment

>>64105574
>>64105714
>>64105778
>>64105916

>>64105455
>bitch

>>64105455
I like both the stock and pistol grip nub, but I understand why the A1 shape is better for a universal service rifle. Burst sucks especially since Colt offered 4-position and full auto rifles but those weren't the ones the US military got.
I understand why people complain about the barrel profile, but it's ridiculous that detractors pretend that there isn't some degree of added functionality and that some of these people will unironically put a govt. or otherwise heavy profile barrel on their custom AR builds without hesitation.
People complaining about the sights though are retarded. I agree with you 100%. Literally the same sight picture as the A1 but with more functionality. And no, soldiers aren't so fucking stupid that you can't train them to not fiddle with the knobs, or at least use paint or a marker for reference lines.

>>64106279
For me it's sticking with the full length stock and actually making it a bit longer. In a world where body armor was becoming the increasing norm that should have been enough to justify an adjustable stock. Internet weirdos are always like "lmao manlet" when you mention this but making a service rifle more ergonomically flexible is a good thing, and you look at stuff like Marines in Iraq regularly putting the rifle over the top of their shoulder and it vindicates that this was a bad call.
The second worse thing is the burst and not even because burst suck but because it makes the semi auto worse. It would have literally been better to make the rifle semi auto only with a decent and consistent trigger than to stuff in a burst feature everyone hates.
The rest of the changes are meh. The barrel and sights changes were kinda stupid but don't really affect anything in practicality. The A2 grip nub sucks but wrapping some grip tape fixes it so whatever.
In detail the M16A2 was a misstep in iteration but it's not like it was so bad it actually flipped any battles

>>64106279
the a2 profile barrel added material at the front you retard, the a1 and a2 barrels are the same diameter under the handguard. its not the same as a proper heavy profile barrel. people only buy government profile barrels because they dont know or because theyre cheaper.

>>64106795
a2 will be forever cringe because of this barrel profile and nothing will change my mind

The AR is incredibly overhyped due to the sheer volume of garbage AR parts on the market. Its like people with VSKAs gassing up the AKM when they have a pot metal shitheap.

>>64105249
Probably true. A good crisp 1911 trigger is still more enjoyable and satisfying experience for the shooter, even if they lack the skill for it to matter from a performance point of view.

>>64106227
I never even heard the term until I came here. To me they were just all assault rifles

>>64104969 (OP)
I always loved how the FAL looks and feels but it is just not a stellar design. What really hurts is how DSA is effectively the sole supplier of parts and magazines, the latter if which are total garbage and original surplus mags are ridiculously expensive.
Side by side with my el cheapo Century C308 it just lost out, especially once I got an enhanced trigger pack for the C308 from Bill Springfield. That and some wide handguards made it a winner, currently the only battle rifle I own.
>>64105263
Taurus does some anti gun lobbying in Brazil to protect their domestic market, which is kind of shitty but also very typical of politics in Brazil. KT I have nothing bad to say about other than wishing they could make their products just a tiny bit tougher.
>>64105778
Simple trick for getting the rollers in the bolt to behave is to stick the BCG in the receiver backwards. That'll knock the rollers in, pushing the bolt forward and then you can turn it around the other way.
>>64105306
Half the time people can't tell the difference between a FAL or a G3 at a glance.
>>64105714
Get a regular fixed stock from RobertRTG, they also sell Bosnian made wide handguards which is a huge upgrade over the thin ones.
>>64105455
Most of the design decisions in the A2 were absolutely retarded. Chiefly the burst fire mechanism which was the worst conceivable way to do it and the horrible A2 profile for bayonet fighting. The A2 grip nub is a mutant that nobody likes, the added stock length is dumb, the fully adjustable rear sight is nice unless some idiot fucks with it and the round handguards are the sole actual improvement.

>>64107453
No such things as an assault rifle either. Just a marketing term turned into a buzzword.

>>64107615
No, assault rifle is a technical term. Much more pinned down than "battle rifle" which is vague.

An assault rifle is.
1) rifle
2) intermediate caliber
3) detachable magazine
4) capable of burst or fully automatic fire

If it is all 4 it is an assault rifle, if it is missing any characteristic it isn't. That simple.

What is absolutely a made up marketing term is "assault weapon", which is used to categorize and prohibit semi automatic firearms that aesthetically or mechanically resemble modern military weapons. Because that is not a technical term, it has been extended to include pistols and shotguns, or in some cases even manually operated rifles. The term is abused and stretched by legal definition in order to prohibit increasingly larger numbers of ordinary firearms from civilian ownership rather than to offer any serious technical description, since what is/isn't one changes from one place to another and over time.

>>64105249
This. First pistol ever was a PSA dagger (notoriously squishy trigger). With enough practice I started finding the wall hidden in the squish.

anything the mp5 can do, the ar-15 can do better.

I think the H&K slap is stupid and annoying, and the G3/MP5 design is fucking terrible. Being the best Cold War battle rifle is just a gold medal at the Special Olympics, and the AR10 is better anyway.

>>64107427
thats what I'm saying, the added material just makes the gun more front heavy for zero benefit. it doesnt add any meaningful heat tolerance or rigidity because the length of barrel underneath the handguard is still the same diameter as the a1

>contrarian opinions thread
this thread is full of things I agree with.

>>64107647
> The term is abused

My favorite is when they coined “assault pistol” to refer to any non-browning style handgun, like a MAC-10, or a magazine feeding outside the pistol grip. When the media uses it, it means “scary looking gun”. But I quite like the label “assault rifle”. I think it sounds cool. I refer to semi auto versions of assault rifles as “assault rifles” as well. What else would you call a mag-fed self-loading 5.56 gun, despite it being semi auto? I’m not gonna say “modern sporting rifle” - that’s playing the anti-gunner’s word game to their satisfaction.

>>64107726
Self loading rifle, or "SLR" has been a technical term for around a century or so now and would include something like a semi automatic AK or AR-15 in addition to a Browning BAR hunting rifle, Winchester 100 or Remington Model 8. There's not really a satisfactory term for "MSRs" or "black rifles" without playing word games.

>>64107720
Because you are a 4chan contrarian chudtard.

>>64107670
Now collapse that stock

>>64104969 (OP)
Own a PTR 91 but still like the FN FAL. Would absolutely get a DSA if one came my way.

Never got the pissing match some brand fags get into.

>>64107831
being a few inches shorter isn't a point to supremacy.

>>64107863
So you can't collapse the stock?

>>64107876
Not what I said. Not sure what you're driving at. Please speak more directly.

>>64107923
The MP5 can fold or collapse into a smaller package if needed.
The AR-15 cannot do this due to the buffer tube.

Space is one of if not the main reason to use an SMG in current year and you dismiss it because it hurts your argument. Obviously, the ar-15 cannot do this better than an mp5.

>>64107977
doesn't hurt my argument. being small doesn't matter, at all.

>>64104969 (OP)
I think the PSA dagger and other PSA handguns aren't good and get beat out by either police trade in Glocks (dagger) or by buying a slightly more expensive version that's much more reliable (everybody else).

>>64108009
>being small doesn't matter
>in a class of weapon that is chosen specifically to be smaller than a full size rifle, that may need to be concealed or used one handed, in close quarters
How convenient. I guess that's why you posted a 20" ar.

>>64108135
>class
Don't care. if the mp5 can do it, the ar-15 can do it better.

I've owned a second hand Arizona Response Systems built "G3" using a PTR 91 receiver and Kongsberg parts and a legit HK G3 barrel. It was OK for a rifle but kicked like a mule and had terrible accuracy. Made me question the whole roller delay system. Foolishly sold it before 2013 happened and prices jumped. Anyways, I picked up a used FAL earlier this year built by...Hesse...but with a Imbel receiver and STG 58 parts kit. Whoever owned before me also did a mean trigger job that breaks at 3lbs. This rifle has less felt recoil than my old G3 and can hit tiny ass steel plates at 200 yards with ease using irons.

I know its a sample size of 1 from each group but I would take my current FAL over my old G3 rifle any day. I have a MP5 and HK93 clone for my HK slap needs anyways.

>>64108135
NTA. Every mag-outside-the-grip SMG was first obsoleted with the assault rifle and then dug up and killed a second time by 300 blackout. No matter what you need, it is never the case that the best option is a pistol caliber non-pistol.

Pistol calibers belong in pistols, or at the very least, in some gun feeding through the grip, otherwise you are incurring serious penalties in cartridge configuration and everything that goes along with it even when you don’t have the dimensional constrains of a pistol grip.

Those single-stack 9mm pocket pistols that only have 6-round magazines are fucking worthless
At that point, why not just carry a snub revolver?

It's okay to call a magazine a clip. Everyone knows what you're talking about, and pretending to get angry about it is just annoying retarded pedantry. It's also okay to call a chimp a monkey, or a butterfly a bug.

Everyone who comments about trigger discipline under a photo of someone holding a gun is a poser faggot

>>64108400
Logistically 9mm pccs destroy the argument for civilian sbrs of certain types.

>>64108686
A 9x19mm round is the same weight as a 5.56 cartridge. Not that civilians need to worry about logistics anyway.

>>64108706
Civilians are self funded and a 20 cent fmj that is justasgood for civilian defense applications versus a 45 or 70 cent round went training matters makes a big difference, especially when 9mm pccs that don't jam and use Glock mags are about 500-600 bucks. Logistics absolutely matters for civilians which is why 9mm pccs are so popular to begin with.

>>64108686
Wdym? That a 9mm PCC mogs the same thing but in 300 blackout or something similar?

>>64108823
If you're paying for the gun and every bullet a 9mm pcc gets a lot of the same results done at a lower cost. Like I said, there's a reason why 9mm pccs sell really well and why everyone makes one now. There's paper stats that justify it plus shooting off 9mm with others nearby is less obnoxious than a short barrel unsuppressed 5.56 or or 300 BO or 7.62x39 AK. We're talking about mobs of looters that will break at any determined gunfire to begin with at most as a use case.

>>64108595
The thing is that ALL gun people will call a magazine a magazine. When someone calls it a clip, you can tell they know nothing about guns, they do not own guns, haven’t even dipped their toes into the gun world. It fine when they’re just laypeople, we know what they mean, not so fine when its a politician or media or leftist masquerading as though they’re an knowledgable authority on the matter. not the same as “30 caliber clip in half a second” (my mom used to work with that guy, begrudgingly)

I remember one time CNN or whoever interviewed some guy at a gun show selling an AR15. They were doing an exposé on the gun show loophole, and were talking to this guy, I guess, selling an AR out of his trunk. When he went on to describe the rifle, he pronounced the chambering “five point five six millimeter” and you instantly knew he’s a hired actor. “Clip” is one of those things. It’s only ok for people who don’t know any better and aren’t pretending to know better.

>>64108839
>cost


Fair point, I should’ve specified I wasn’t considering cost. More like comparing the guns in a vacuum and keeping constant that which can be made equal.

I don’t have anything in any pistol caliber. Is 9mm significantly cheaper than 5.56?

>>64108852
>ALL gun people will call a magazine a magazine
My grandpa's a Nam vet who regularly buys and sells guns, and he says "clip", because he isn't a Redditor afraid of getting downvoted by mallninjas and larperators

>>64107977
>Space
checked

>>64107453
>never even heard the term until I came here
Yeah there's a coterie on /k/ that insists.
Separate thread >>64997897
All select fire rifles from 1950s forward were, from military doctrine and manufacturers worldwide, named automatic rifles no matter their caliber chambering. (Until the 2010s, see thread^)

>>64107615
>>64107647
>marketing, "assault weapon"
Unfortunately in the United States both 'battle rifle' and 'assault weapon' were terms invented by 1980s gunrag scribblers one of which has made its way into the legal lexicon to be wielded as a weapon in official case law against Americans' Second Amendment rights. Another reason that by joined-extension at the hip I have an inherent bias against 'battle rifle' as part of that pair of meaningless '80s gunrag scribbler terms, one of which is now firmly, directly and deliberately utilized against us.

>>64107726
>they coined “assault pistol”
Yeah that's a bridge too far and veers into drooling tardblather. But as with 'assault weapon' they'll push anything as far as it'll go into leveraging the gungrab and "won't anyone think of the chilldrunz"

>“modern sporting rifle”
Agreed even though this is nominally correct it does play too much into their legalese rhetorical gotcha-game. From the 2A or our perspective it's analogous to the tongue-in-cheek sarc term "safe and effective" RE: the jab

>>64107807
>Self loading rifle
imho ^this term, and automatic rifle, are the only 2 terms any of us should ever be using with regard to *all* mil-issue select fire, or civilian semiauto, pattern rifles no matter the caliber. Any type of semiauto-only rifle should be a self loading rifle (SLR) and any type of select fire rifle should be an automatic rifle. Period. And it puts the ball back into 'our' court as regards to clarity, nomenclature and the authoritarian tyranny gungrab debate from mis-informed and non-informed soccer moms, govs, attorneys/legal activists.
This isn't an online game for funsies

>>64109434
>Separate thread
>>64097897

>>64104969 (OP)
I shot one once and the concussion was so much worse than my AR. Like I'm pretty sure it was full length and the chinaman who owned it had it tuned or whatever and kept bragging about lol no recoil, but holy shit the concussion.

>>64105497
Simple truths are simple.

>>64104969 (OP)
steyr makes the best guns from europe

>>64108178
>Hesse
Haven't seen that name in a while. Maybe changing his name yet again to avoid his deservedly bad reputation did the trick.

>>64105455
An infantry rifle is supposed to be a lowest common denominator master-of-none that's "just" goodnuff for Bubba and his 35 ASVAB score.
A Gucci AR is every bit as retarded as adding body kits and lighting to a Volkswagen if not worse.

>>64107427
You're right for the wrong reasons
>t. HBAR gang

>>64109746
I'm actually thankful for the name being on the receiver as it was in the Gunjoker ad title and I think it scared away more than a few serious buyers. Didn't even mention the trigger job in the ad either. Only thing wrong with it was a broken charging handle knob which was easily replaced.

>>64104969 (OP)
Shotguns are better for home defense than any rifle.

10mm is a dumb overrated meme, there's nothing wrong with piston AR gas systems, and most civilians don't need anything more than a revolver in practical terms.

>>64109821
what if i have more than 6 niggers running at me?

>>64109827
pull out your second wheelgun, dingus

>>64109827
Consult the Official Chimpout Advisory Guide.

According to the guide, being hunted by a pack of niggers of size 6 or greater constitutes a Category 2 Flash Mob. A rifle is recommended for adequate defense.

>>64109827
Then your tactics suck and you deserve to be in that situation

>>64108400
SMGs still offer the best space to performance ratio. That’s why they’re still used in roles where space is important like in vehicles, or in security applications. For example, if you are rolling up on your opps while you or your homie drives, you will find it much easier to maneuver, aim, and fire an SMG. It’s not going to matter that it’s a pistol caliber because the guys you are shooting at aren’t wearing armor. Or if you have a p90 or mp7, even if they do have soft armor.

Also the AR-15 is a shit platform for this, which is why it took forever and a half for shorty ARs to become mainstream.

>>64109914
THANKFULLY most of the US is still at 1-2 with the occasional 3 flareup, and there are still 0 areas if you know where to go (don't say so obv). As hard as the littlehats are going on diversifying what's left of America we're still in a much better situation than we could be. Just don't get complacent.

>>64109962
>best space to performance ratio

Only if fed through the grip. Otherwise, 300 blackout is superior. But it’s splitting hairs, like you said if the opps are 10 yards away and unarmored, none of this caliber talk matters. Still, the mag-in-grip gives you a much smaller and lighter gun that makes your life easier, being closer in size to a pistol, vs being a truncated “rifle”. Easier to ditch or hide from the racist cops when they come to harass you for your skin color (you dindu nuffin, you’s a good boi)

Come to think of it, if drive-by’s are the use case for the gun, maybe full auto Glocks aren’t the worst idea. Moving car and target so you can’t apply marksmanship, and a short window of opportunity to get shots in.

>>64107863
You didn't say anything about supremacy you just said that anything the mp5 can do the ar15 can do better. Look, it's right here in writing >>64107670 and the ar15 cannot collapse its stock better than the mp5. It doesn't make one or the other a more superior gun, but the mp5 does the thing specifed here >>64107831 better

You don't need a WML on a carry gun

>>64110061
Eh I used to work 2nd shift and would walk my dog at night when I got off. Dog leash in one hand (can't let him go in case of meth head attack or charge by stray dog) and pistol in the other, it was really nice in that scenario to have to light on the gun

>>64110116
>This fucking autist walks around at night with a loaded handgun with a light on it because he’s scared of the dark

If I saw you, I’d call the cops and watch as you tried to explain how retarded you are to them.

>>64105473
>>64105508
>>64105524
>>64107592
>>64109779
Interesting arguments, now post hands fatties.

>>64105830
>snubbies
Bad-breath distance gun. That's it that's the whole point.

>>64104969 (OP)
It insists on itself

>>64107677
The fluted chamber seems good for its intended purpose but after seeing a guy shoot commercial ammo out of his H&K-built G3 - man, split casings and the works. Is surplus brass just thicker?

>>64108585
Some people (myself included) just prefer semi-autos and preform better with them. Shooting non-DAO pistols and shooting snub-nosed revolvers are completely different animals, so expecting people who're used to shooting semi-autos to carry a completely different platform while there are semi-autos that are roughly the same size and are just as if not more capable is an exercise in futility

>>64104969 (OP)
While the M16A2 had retarded decisions, the M16A4 is the real mindfuck and i cant believe people dont acknowledge it.

>keeps the burst long after everyone accepts its useless
>keeps the A2 barrel that just fucks with the balance and isnt any more accurate or durable
>meant to be used with standard optics, does not have a folding front sight post by default
>meant to be used by soldiers with more gear and armor vests, does not use a collapsible stock like the C7A2

Besides having a KAG rail and a flat top, what the fuck did the A4 even improve? The current M4 sopmods and the URGI are much more of a radical change.

>>64108585
because I am not going to carry a pocket full of speed loaders, at that point you're just larping.

>>64111474
I'm pretty sure it's because the A4 is a strict upgrade to the A2, where as the A2 is not an upgrade to the A1 and the Army didn't adopt the A4 in large numbers, they went to the M4 so only the marines were stuck with a gun that had the same flaws as the previous gun

>>64111474
The A4 was something of a rush job and some saved costs, which is really ironic because the C7A2 explicitly avoided the quad rail because of costs and weight. The only objective “upgrade” of the rifle is that being a fat pig with rifle gas meant its got .22lr levels of recoil even by 5.56 standards. The later iterations being equipped with maytech irons is arguably better than the A2 irons as well, but that isn’t exclusive to the A4. Personally, the A4 should have been similar to the marine SDM-Rs which were just arms room A4s with a free float KAC rail and stainless barrel as a quick DMR mod

>>64104969 (OP)
11.5 ARs and gen 3 Glocks are overrated, a 16in AR and an RXM is a direct upgrade

>>64110130
>if I saw you
Good thing you don’t leave the house

>>64108706
>Same weight as 556
>Significantly smaller mags
>Significantly cheaper
>147+can prevents getting permanent EEEEEEEEEEE
>Doesn't blow up when using an FRT
>Not a gay modern caliber, from an era when people knew what people wanted from a gun
>Kills people justasgud
9mm wins yet again, you can even get a retro larp AR9 if you want to post on /gayrg/

>>64112262
You forgot
>Good for concealed carry AND home defense
Which is 99% of gun owners, no your autistic interest gun isn't necessary for the average person

>>64112262
9mm supremacy is so real that .45 fudds AND 5.56 virgins can't stop seething

>>64109434
I have never heard of any legal action involving the term "battle rifle".

500 dollar ARs are justasgood. People who buy expensive ARs exclusively shoot prone, because they're not good enough to shoot the sub MOA groups that their rifle is capable of. They do not have the upper body strength to shoot standing up, and if they did, they'd be shooting worse than some guy who magdumps into trash piles in the woods, OR they'd be shooting one round every 3 seconds like a 77 year old.

>>64112262
I literally only shoot .38/.357, 9mm and 7.62 NATO now because of how decent modern 9mm is.

>>64112823
Counterpoint: people who buy 500 dollar ARs buy 150 rounds of .223, shoot 2 mags then out the gun and 90 rounds away satisfied. Ive yet to see anyone who shoots a lot treat a 500 dollar AR as anything but a novelty for seeing how long it lasts before it chokes up.

>>64111583
If you're carrying a bunch of extra mags for your tiny lightweight pocket pistol, then you are missing the point completely
>the guy who thinks he's gonna be doing a bunch of tacticool reloads during a mugging calling anyone else a larper
lol

>>64112846
That is likely because you only shoot at a geezer range where everybody is bench resting or prone. If you go to a 100 yard range, you will see poors with their PSAs mag dumping at 25 yards while wearing a plate carrier with who knows what kind of mystery meat plates from opticsplanet.

>>64112301
booo hiss
put the collapsible stock on it

>>64108585
>single stack 9mm pocket pistol
The sig p365 is the same size and (loaded) weight as my model 36 and it carries 11 rounds. Revolvers are obsolete.

>>64113117
Are you just trying to.talk about your own kit? What kinda cringe sperg town do you live in where thats the norm? Where I live the people with nicer guns tend to shoot more often.

>>64113148
Im talking about the average people i see at the range. People with amazon kits and psas magdumping shit. I dont know why this offends you, is it because poor people shoot more than you?

>>64113177
No Im just baffled as to why you're passing off memes that I joked about 5-6 yeard ago as anecdotes.

>>64105249
I love my retarded aftermarket triggers like anyone else but the first time I shot a Glock I really didn't notice shit about the trigger. I think it was a Gen 5 though so not sure how much better that is compared to, say, a Gen 3. Can't say for sure because it was some random guy's factory Glock at the range. Not as bad as I was lead to believe, much to my surprise.

>>64105253
That's such a weirdly low range but I do kinda understand it. 1x for close and 4x for low-medium distances with some ability to hit out to further ranges? Reminds me of some old Bushnell or Weaver hunting scopes that are like 1.5x or 2.5x to 6x or 7x max. I would look for the one I'm thinking of but don't feel like sorting through all of them. Absolutely a bit of a niche use case though. If anything of decent quality on the used market ever actually lost value anymore (and didn't gain it when it gets discontinued) I'd love to buy one or two for 22s.

>>64105830
>if someone says they shoot X number of rounds a week/month/year, divide that number by 20 to get how much they actually shoot
I can probably estimate my rounds/wk or month but hunting makes me limit my range time in the part of the year I actually want to go. And fuck the summer, too hot. I'm best off going by how many cases of ammo I buy and subtracting leftovers. It's much less rds/month than I'd like.
>underfolder aks are awful and do nothing that a side folder does better
Bought a pack of rough condition UF stocks for a 10/22 project. Put one on my project stock. Immediately stopped after learning how much they suck.
>wood stocks on hunting rifles are a fashion statement by people who spend more time talking about their hunting gun then actually using it
Wood stock user here (B-TM); folder helps ease of carry in brush. I'm out multiple times a week from Sept/Oct through February for small game. But yes it's partly for style as well; it might as well look good too. Fixed wood stock CZ in 22 mag next.

>>64107592
>original surplus mags are ridiculously expensive.
Not to mention nearly always fucking out of stock and pricey. I own zero FALs but do own three mags just because I know I will one day buy a FAL and I know the mag situation isn't getting better any time soon.

>>64108585
What handgun has single stack mags holding only 6 rounds in 9mm? Only thing I can think of that's single stack 9mm is a Star BM and that holds like 7 or 8 + 1 (but I'm not exactly up to date on somewhat new handguns).

>>64108595
It still gets annoying because I had to clarify talking to a guy because of this. He's an older collector than me (probably ~50+ easily) so I have no doubt he's been exposed to the "everything is a clip" era/type a lot more than me. I was complaining about the huge abundance of and disappearance of military surplus rifle clips locally over the past ~10 years. He asked "wait, clips, or do you mean, like, clips?" and had to clarify "stripper clips for loading surplus rifles, not magazines." Yes, pedantic, but "everything is a clip" makes easy conversations require unnecessary clarification (even if you're the kind to also call clips clips and mags clips). Just like calling ammunition "bullets" and any 22 rimfire cartridge (22 S/L/LR/Mag) or any 22RF (22 S/L/LR/Mag) gun a "twenty two" (especially when models in the same line come in LR and Mag and the model number is not specified), calling mags clips makes discussion need unnecessary additional clarification and/or creates confusion when reading old forum posts. Often it doesn't matter and everyone knows what you mean, especially in person, but it can lead to a lot of unnecessary uncertainty when reading up on guns, especially online. Pedantic, but for a reason.

>>64109698
I was recently looking at their rifles and the Zephyr II is pretty damn sexy. Though WTF is with their "scout" 22LR/22Mag rifles? God dayum did that get hit by the ugly truck. Everything else they make looks fine.

>>64113472
There's stamped Austrian spec repros now for 35 dollars each. You can find the site on /brg/.

>>64113505
I thought I heard mixed things about them. I bought those FAL mags way before that was a thing, too, btw.

>>64113547
There's mixed reviews on the DSA mags for sure, these other ones seem alright.

>>64112301
>>64113123
fixed stock is best for the mp5
it just looks cool

>>64107592
>KT I have nothing bad to say about other than wishing they could make their products just a tiny bit tougher.
i like how their products are inexpensive and light, but so many of their guns just feel flimsy.
passed on an su16 because it just felt like a toy, id rather just build a really lightweight AR, even if it costs more overall.

>>64112188
>The later iterations being equipped with maytech irons is arguably better than the A2 irons as well,
looks like the maytech irons have a 200 meter setting which makes them better than the A2 sights lol

>>64104969 (OP)

Once you have your rifled zero'd there's virtually no reason to train with it at the range. Rifles are basically aimhack guns you have to be retarded to not be able to hit something with it. It's not even fun to practice with because how easy it is.

Range time should be spent practicing with your handguns. Firing your rifle only occasionally to ensure it operates normally. You don't actually have to practice shooting with it. It's just aim and hit if it's zero'd right.

>>64108400
What if you are worried about overpen, like in a close hostage situation? Or you want to run suppressed as quietly as possible?

>>64104969 (OP)
Vastly superior weapon to the AR both with the gas adusted as a marksmans rifle and for use in urba and open field combat. It will penetrate more cover and hit fiurther away and has a more adequate cartridge, the G3 and even the garand are vastly superior to the AR as rifles easpecially when dealing with opfor wearing armour

>>64113472
>I know I will one day buy a FAL and I know the mag situation isn't getting better any time soon.
That's only if you obsess over original mags. Modern FN SCAR 17 mags are compatible with the FN FAL and vice versa.

>>64105249
My favorite triggers are on anschultz target rifles. Glocks are an unsafe weapon completel unsuitable for police or home defense. No debate the only reason you don't realise that is glock legal and marketing

>>64113928
I kinda agree with this. 90% of the time when I go shoot I just shoot handguns because imo it’s the most challenging firearm type (although shotguns + clays is another strong contender) and because I don’t have enough range where you can really practice rifle “skill” and shoot long range.

>>64107807
British firearms terms in general are a lot more sane and descriptive. Probably because there isn't a combination of competing marketing and Jewish word games muddying the waters.

>durr it's a revolver not a pistol
vs.
>pistol, revolver
>pistol, self-loading

>>64114004
>Glocks are an unsafe weapon
>hair triggers are safer
What planet are you on and what are you smoking there?

>>64113928
>Once you have your rifled zero'd there's virtually no reason to train with it at the range. Rifles are basically aimhack guns you have to be retarded to not be able to hit something with it. It's not even fun to practice with because how easy it is.
Train with smaller targets. Shoot more 22LR. Stop shooting so many flat shooting calibers. Stop calling a hit on target "good enough". I'm not saying it's x times harder but it's definitely a lot more difficult. Yes I can hit ~12-15" square plates at 300 with a 10/22. But can I shoot a 5" or 7" square plate? Smaller? KYL racks? Random small rocks and shotgun shells at unknown distances? While braced with sticks? While kneeling? While braced on a log? While braced against a tree? Standing? Small game is all about that kind of skill.

>>64114003
I thought you had to modify them to fit an FAL. Past research indicated that IIRC despite them being FAL mag based. Do you have both to test?

>>64110116
Shoot that mut

>>64114041
>I thought you had to modify them to fit an FAL. Past research indicated that IIRC despite them being FAL mag based. Do you have both to test?
I called up my buddy who constantly brags about being able to use the same mags on both, and you are correct; he did have to modify them. Now I'm mad at him. I'm going to go send him some AR-10 superiority memes.

>>64106227
The term battle rifle exist because people use it. Ergo battle rifle is a term that is used. Simple as.

>>64114244
A lot of stupid people say a lot of stupid things.

>>64113959
Scenario 1: mag-in-grip SMG or some limited penetration 300 blackout
Scenario 2: same thing.

It just bothers me when there is a magazine located outside the grip that could fit within the grip. The gun is 4-5” longer and a bit heavier than it needs to be.

>>64107677
HK slap (which shouldn't really be called that since it's on a million non HK guns) is ergonomic as fuck. Having a manual bolt lock open that doesn't need an empty mag in the well is great for clearing jams and sending the bolt home on a fresh mag is fun.

>>64109926
are you saying my tactics suck?

>>64112262
Since we're being contrarian in this thread, I'm gonna say it.

9mm sucks. Not because I think it's weak or 45 is a mans caliber or whatever, it's just non-optimally designed. It's from the wild west of cartridge design and given the progression of the ballistics sciences we can do so much better.

> But we can just apply our knowledge to 9mm
OR we can go further beyond. TL;DR I'm mad about there being less guns in 30SC

>>64110116
This. People need to stop being afraid of being flagged. I'm a gp, and frequently use the WML on my m&p to look at my patients' ears/eyes/throat. Being flagged with a handgun is a normal part of living in America. Not my fault a surefire WML is better than the stupid Allegra branded pen light they expect me to use.

i know AR15s are good guns, but damn they're not fun to shoot. i'd rather be shooting my pistols/revolvers or a rifle in a full-sized cartridge.

>>64110130
You... you do realize I'm not walking around using the flashlight to see my way around, right? I have the light on the gun in case I need to pull out the gun (it would be nice to see what I'm aiming at)

>>64114311
I used to agree with you, but after shooting at a private range/innawoods/berm, I enjoy shooting my ar more than any of my leverguns or full powered calibers. Having almost no recoil makes mag dumping steel at 50 yards fun as fuck, and I like practicing splits, or switching to my pistol/reloading during exercises. Maybe a certain degree of larping is required for a fun experience?

>>64114311
Yeah the lack of recoil makes it no fun. I sold my AR for a full power rifle just to feel something

>get an ar
>get it in 300blk
>put a stupidly short barrel on it
>run subs with a silencer
>"WOW GUYS SMGS ARE USELESS, THE AR IS STRULY A WUNDERWAFFE DO EVERYTHING GUN!!!"
words cannot express how tiresome it all is

>>64112301
>9 mm supremacy
But it's still a pistol caliber. It can do the job, but it's still a pistol caliber.

>>64108400
>No matter what you need, it is never the case that the best option is a pistol caliber non-pistol

Fire that rifle in your room without a suppressor and get back to us.

>>64105253
I have a 1-8 (I think?) and it's an even worse meme

>>64114373
A 1xAnything is a meme because your ass is never using the 1x in the first place and you'll just default to the maximum

>erm yes as you can see my target is optimized at a 5.5x setting

Said and done by fucking no one ever

>>64114344
You forgot that 300 chimpout owners (niggers and gay larpers) are too poor to afford ammo, so they never shoot it. SAD! Many such cases

>>64112865
>strawman: The Post

>>64109821
You sir, are based

>>64112823
They aren't. I have a colt a that worked perfectly right out of the box. My buddy has a PSA for about 500 that jammed a whole bunch right out of the box

>>64114300
Im really hoping 30sc or something like ittakes off but I won't buy one myself until I know it will stick around and I'll be able to find it

>>64114395
Back When I did keep it on a gun I actually just left it on the 1x setting. Should have just spent the dough on another red dot.

>>64114524
I dont have a psa, but I have what I assume most shooters would consider a low tier rifle; a spikes tactical, and it just werkz. It has never had any issues out of the box. My friend bought a psa and had a ton of problems until I took it apart for him, cleaned out the shavings that the subhuman builders at psa left in the rifle, and it worked perfectly well after that. Will the BCG or barrel last as long as a better rifle? No, but an AR can't not work unless the operator is a fucking idiot. It is an extremely simple weapon, and nothing needs to be tuned to work properly. If you can't figure out how to make a DI gas system, a buffer, and a fucking spring cycle properly, then you shouldn't own a rifle.

>>64109926
>tactics
Are you some elite grayman that moves tactically, gives everyone an ocular pat down as you scan your environment for threats, and always runs away when he sees more than one groid on the street? I don't need "tactics" to walk around in an urban environment, I have a fucking gun.

>>64114244
>>64114266

see ------- >>64097897

one of my dream guns is a retromod FG 42, totally exact select fire replica except in 6.5 Grendel (only difference would be barrel internal bore and magazine, bolt, breech)
Solves the full auto shootability / controllability and retains long range punch

>>64114335
My Block 1 abomination with a 16" carbine gas kinda kicks due to it being overgassed to hell, only AR I enjoy messing with.

>>64105249
But you just contradicted yourself you fucking idiot. The people without experience who don't shoot well are who good triggers matter to the most. I can get new people who've never or barely shot before to hit a target at 50 yards with my Staccato P with an RMR a lot easier than I can with my Glock 17 with an RMR because the trigger is just that much easier to use

Red dots with magnifiers are ass, I’ve never seen one that looks good. Red dots are bad enough on their own, with a 3x magnifier they are 3 times as bad.

>>64114589
We did take down and clean both guns and their bcgs and trigger groups prior to use. He may have just gotten a lemon, idk

>>64116543
I used to think that until I tried Eotech and magnifier.

>>64111447
I'm waiting for S&W to put out a Plus variant (new trigger/upgrades) of the Shield 45

>>64118959
Nobody cares about or wants fuddslop, grow up already

>>64118960
>triggered, Controversial

>>64118960
>muh fuddslop
>grow up
but fudds are old doe they already grew up

>>64113589
Agreed
except that anon's picrel isn't a select fire submachine gun MP5

>>64118980
He's just malding about picrel

>>64107647
sounds like a machine carbine to me
>>64114244
>tfw they stopped calling it an automatic rifle

>>64104969 (OP)
>9mm snubnoses are based and make sense and I wish more people would make them
>MLOK is fucking RETARDED and I hate putting accessories on it vs quadrails
The damn things always slip, how the FUCK is anyone supposed to keep that shitty little tab from slipping when screwing it in? JUST GIVE ME A FUCKING 1913 SECTION GODDAMNIT
>.45 just isn't fun to shoot
I've shot a Px4, 1911, XD, and P220. None were good. The 1911 and Px4 especially had problems feeding fucking ANYTHING. I'm convinced it just isn't good.
>the types of people that have MOLON LABE/Punisher skull/III%er paraphernalia are fags who would hesitate to pull if the assailant was black
>two-tone was ALWAYS meant to be chrome/nickel/silver on top and black on bottom; any other combos of colors is gay
>box magazine fed shotguns are stupid and always will be; feed it from a tube or not at all
We figured this shit out already-- over a century ago. It's time to stop attempting to turn the shotgun into a rifle.
>anyone who buys Turkish deserves what they get

>>64105455
>>64110446
The barrel profile is inferior to nearly any alternative and it's an objective fact that it was adopted to address a problem that actually didn't exist.
The burst fire with no full auto option is the single most idiotic decision made in the realm of standard issue rifles until the adoption of the M7.
The A2 grip is a straight downgrade that almost no one likes.

>>64108178
>second hand Arizona Response Systems built "G3" using a PTR 91 receiver and Kongsberg parts and a legit HK G3 barrel

Nothing against you personally Anon but this uniquely American phenomenon where thousands of people get embittered on a particular firearm design because a bunch of drunk monkeys in a garage put together a "G3" or "AK" using a bunch of mystery meat surplus parts and sub par new manufacture will never stop being funny to me. If a G3 clone won't shoot straighter than a FAL, there is something very wrong.
...
Actually scratch that, now that I think of it, there IS a parallel here, back before anyone could be assed to import a decent AR from the states, the only ARs we could get our hands on were Chynese Norinco CQ A1s, Canadian Dlasks, IDS (mystery meat rifles built in Britain using Vietnamese parts, until the owner of the company was arrested for attempting to sell missiles to Azerbaijan), and later DPMS and eurotrash Oberland Arms / Hera, and this has soured an entire generation of shooters on AR-15s, contributed to the view that these rifles are trash and spawned multiple new piston ARs.

>>64104969 (OP)
G3 was the better wide adoption rifle for the time.

>>64120336
idk if that was true at the time. today the G3 is the best of the 7.62 nato rifles because it's the easiest one to mount optics, it's the easiest one to make accurate and it's the easiest one to reliably suppress

>>64119518
>but this uniquely American phenomenon
yeah, because yurostanis can't own guns

>>64106227
>>64114244
>>64114936
it's a retroactive term like how we have over 6 million different words for swords or polearms or how we have rules for what is a saber that a ton of sabers don't follow

>>64105800
>the Belgian French speakers are dicks
No we're chill

>>64116543
Red dots with magnifiers are an imperfect solution for somebody who primarily shoots at close range but wants the option to take magnified shots. They aren't as good at range as a proper scope, but that's because the magnified role is essentially a backup.
So it's only retarded for somebody who uses the setup to shoot more with the magnifier than the bare CCO.
>red dots are bad enough on their own
I am ready for your elaboration

>>64120404
careful, you're going to summon elmslie

>>64120404
It's a collector librarian funkopops-on-shelf term.
Military operators don't make the distinction, select fire rifles are all Automatic Rifles no matter their caliber chambering

>>64120336
>G3 was the better wide adoption rifle for the time
Agreed.
I've posted threads that it's the best post-World War II military rifle which cause a lot of schizo glownigger post-2014 Ukebro-on-/k/-staff butthurt.

>>64121011
>ukraine bad cumrade
what blew up this time?

>>64121011
For battle rifles I would agree but for 556 the ar18 platforms if they ever got wide enough adoption would be better than the AR15. The only issue is everyone makes everything nearly proprietary on their special ar18/masada/scar like gun.

>>64121080
>triggered hurr durr muh plootimmy

>>64121210
See picrel, the fate of all puccians

>>64119518
>Nothing against you personally Anon but this uniquely American phenomenon where thousands of people get embittered on a particular firearm design because a bunch of drunk monkeys in a garage put together a "G3" or "AK" using a bunch of mystery meat surplus parts and sub par new manufacture will never stop being funny to me. If a G3 clone won't shoot straighter than a FAL, there is something very wrong.
The fact that everything you stated about my rifle's situation is wrong is highly amusing. ARS is one of the better HK/FAL gunsmiths in the business and thinking Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk AG3 surplus parts are somehow of low quality is amusing.

The G3's stock is its Achilles Heel. Spur making his inline stock is the greatest upgrade to the platform money can buy.

>>64121929
>ARS is one of the better HK/FAL gunsmiths in the business

And yet your G3 couldn't shoot for shit and beat you up when rifles put together by pakiniggers using surplus bundeswehr parts and potmetal POF housings are ~2 MOA and shootable just fine. Curious.

>>64110061
Most people don't. (anon that replied to you, is example of someone that does)
Can understand WMLs for home defense handguns, that is the nightstand ones (aren't carried publicly in holster)

>>64122426
I'll go further and say that pistol optics on a CCW are kind of a meme. Pistol optics are obviously better to shoot with, but a high factor in carry guns is low size and weight. I know a number of people who started out thinking they were macho dudes carrying full sized or "compact" Glock 19 sized guns and they ended up either not carrying eventually or being really lazy about doing it maybe 1/4 of the time.
A tiny pocket sized gun in a little holster might be unpleasant to shoot, but there's a far better chance somebody who chose it will actually stick with it. Most of those guns can't even really support optics to start with.
(Before anybody replies that they personally carry a full sized gun, note that it low IQ to respond to generalities by citing your specifics)

>>64122160
>~2 MOA
Bull. Shit. That's a fairyland number made up by forum posters who take more pictures of their guns than pulling the trigger. Even MKE lists their copy as having 4 MOA.

>>64122471
I'm with you anon.

>>64119349
>two-tone was ALWAYS meant to be chrome/nickel/silver on top and black on bottom; any other combos of colors is gay
( know this is mildly related at best but...) Ah yes, gotta love two-tone tan/black. Eugh.

>>64119518
>Chynese Norinco CQ A1s
(NTA) God I want one. So weird and funky.
>IDS (mystery meat rifles built in Britain using Vietnamese parts, until the owner of the company was arrested for attempting to sell missiles to Azerbaijan)
Lol I own one of his piece of shit mags. It's weirdly tight in the magwell but not scraping. Note that the receivers I have tried are absolutely perfect and have fit and worked with every mag I've ever owned except an exceedingly impressively out-of-spec Spanish CETME L 10rd ("12rd"). The follower is super thin, is colored a strange dark blue, and it's fucking BOWING because it's so god damn cheap and thin. The mags can be identified by:
>no markings (at all IIRC)
>follower is weird blue color
>follower is super thin
>they are steel (magnet test)
>weird light grey finish (parkerized, no bluing)
>underside of follower marked "ENGLAND"

>>64108585
Did the guy making those grips ever pull through, or did he disappear into the ether?

>>64107670
Faggot

I personally think that people who can't even carry a compact probably shouldn't be carrying.

>>64123806
Good job outing yourself as a recoilet