Thread 64111511

Hypothetically, speaking. I'm not talking about buying a glock from Tyrone,

I'm talking actual ordinance; MANPADs, mortars, etc. Even larger stuff.

I've heard some big name defense contractors actually engage in selling this shit to non-state actors, particularly the French, but I have no clue.

Educate me, gentlemen.

>>64111511 (OP)
During the Chechnyan Wars, Russian soldiers steal guns, ammo and whatever and go to a Chechnyan town and sell it like they're in a bazaar. The "Fly" ATGM was in demand back then.

>>64111511 (OP)
depends on where the stuff you want is manufactured

if it's Germany, Denmark, Sweden or something similar
tough luck

if it's France, Poland, even better Hungary or Turkey or some developing country
it's gonna be easy
well depending on how "shady" the manufacturer is

typically you'd have a middleman who brokers the deal
what happens is you have a legitimate / legal consulting / engineering / servicing contract with the manufacturer (through some shell company)
which is your entry ticket

from there you get "research samples" or certain export free parts delivered
if the manufacturer itself is willing to circumvent legal exports, they just manufacture small quantities outside the books (modern software (ERP/MES) makes this increasingly harder though, you can work with "reject" /faulty parts)
if not you might have to do some work yourself

but usually you don't need to
different countries, different laws
so they manufacture and export different parts in / from different countries where it is legal and you "assemble" it yourself

if this isn't an option
you have an export chain through legal countries
until you find a vendor that is willing to just sell you the stuff

never done this myself but I work for a machinery manufacturer and we have many customers in the defense industry

>>64111511 (OP)
Depends on the country. Lot of times black market weapons are either stolen or recovered from a floundering military. Sometimes it's glowies ordering the weapons to sell/donate to insurgents which later flow into a larger black market. Another way is through lying about who's actually buying the thing or lying about what actually being sold, IIRC that's how France got away with selling Russia thermal sights for their tanks after 2014 because they labeled them as "industrial equipment" or something like that

>>64111649
First of all Danish weapons are a meme.
Second, i think it matters more based on who uses the weapons rather than just manufactures. Some shithole like india buys a load of gustavs or whatever, the QM is bribed with vagen pics of private poojeet mustsheet's sister/wife and 'loses' a couple, poojeet sells them on to shlomo marketberg for a new phone and he sells them to whatever client after that.
I'm no black marketeer, but I'd be willing to bet most shit for sale is procured via corrupt officers or qms or whoever handles inventory.
If it's a corrupt shithole that also at least nominally produces their own kit (russia) it's gonna be much more prevalent, too.

>>64111649
>f it's Germany, Denmark, Sweden or something similar
>tough luck
Doesn't German SIG keep getting in trouble for illegal weapons exports and using company cards to fly to and bang female gun influencers?
I just realized there's a non-zero chance but most of the sig sponsored gun bunnies have shat on Hans chest.

>>64111686
>First of all Danish weapons are a meme
might be
i was just speaking from experience on how the factories are organized
though Germany is probably the strictest, best organized and most digital

>corruption in the military
I purposefully left this out
for one because that's not a dependable way
but mostly because if you get caught, you end up in jail easily
or on some EU / US terrorism list (and if you live there, your life would be pretty much over)

going with the consulting route is (in most countries) completely lawful
and so is getting legal parts and assembling them
you'll only commit minor crimes by "inappropriate" usage

there's of course a big black market for stolen stuff
but why bother when you can get it safely and directly from the manufacturer?

>>64111710
>Doesn't German SIG keep getting in trouble
not the German one directly

and they use exactly the methods I describe
>Kazakhstan
no permit in German, export to -> sig sauer inc usa -> some usa based brick and mortar "shop" -> sold to middleman -> export as personal guns to shell company -> export to Kazakhstan
>Colombia
export parts to sig sauer inc usa -> "assembly" in USA -> mixed in with us manufactured one to us dod which supplied to colombia
>iraq
same scheme as colombia, only no us gov involved, just 2 shell companies in between

and as you can see from the german court rulings
they got away with fines
no jail, no terrorist list, no out of business
just fines

>>64111511 (OP)
lord of war was a documentary

>>64111511 (OP)
You go to the local gypsy and he tells you where to find the guy that knows the Romanian gypsy that knows the gypsies in Romania and Serbia where the warehouses are.
If you want western weapons, the source is corrupt Ukranian officers or corrupt Israeli officers. Both of them sell weapons paid for with US tax dollars and pocket the cash.
The Soviet stuff is largely expended in Ukraine, the Yugo stuff is pretty scarce too, but most of it ended up with gangs in Sweden because Serb gangsters would gleefully sell to the mystery meat Stew of Somalis, Arabs and whatever else the cuckolds dragged in.
The more modern Russian stuff is hard to get to now, but you can usually get Chinese equivalents although the exact route I'm not sure about. Probably coming in from like a dozen different African countries.
From what I read somehwere, you can get NK stuff extremely easily as long as you can pay. They literally had a black market catalogue with anything from guntrucks over MANPADS to grad rockets.
>wait it's all gyppos
Yes

You just buy them from a third world army like Russia or (insert Middle Eastern or African nation). If you’re talking about high end shit you just go to a friendly but corrupt government and pay them a broker fee to straw purchase them for you. Look up Frank Amadeo. He probably did it the best of anyone.
>Decide to take over the world through gigabased totalitarianism via capital genesis
>Cheat on your taxes and formulate boiler room scheme to become rich and fuck over investors
>Open shell company in Cypress or Malta or some shit
>Purchase an entire fleet of fighter jets and Blackhawks
>Pick which Congolese presidential candidate you want to back
>Threaten to level the capital if Col Ungabunga don’t stop fucking around
>Get invited to the White House for your “humanitarian” contribution
>Tell a bunch of NAFO fucks to their faces that you’re going to replace them through a hostile takeover

>>64111511 (OP)
Read 'The Shadow World' by Andrew Feinstein
it goes into the back office deals and how the global arms trade does some real clever shit to circumvent laws and embargoes

>>64111511 (OP)
>US sends arms to Ukraine
>Ukrainian generals sell half of that to the highest bidder
>10% for the big guy
Replace Ukraine with any other "freedom fighters" of the last century

>>64111511 (OP)
Short answer: Through intermediaries and a lot of money to grease palms.

>>64111977
>Ukrainian generals sell half of that to the highest bidder
Vlad is projecting on the Ukranians again

>>64112025
I don't support Russians, just bitter that my tax money is wasted on foreign nations
And Ukraine was selling weapons internationally during the first year of the conflict, it may have been older stock but still, they were at war at the time so it was quite sketchy. I think they are under higher scrutiny now

>>64111511 (OP)
Stuff gets stolen, "lost" or taken from the dead or defeated. Since this stuff is effectively free to you, you can sell it at a far reduced from market rate to offload it very quick, basically just to the highest bidder in a short period. They get the stuff cheap, you offload hot product and make some money

>>64111511 (OP)
Bulk arms sales of heavy weapons are done by intelligence agencies only.

>>64112074
Oops i lost my T-72 during exercise again haha...?

this thread has been very insightful in figuring out who thinks "i watched goyslop" qualifies as an answer, and who has some actual info

>>64112053
Guess what retard nigger, YOUR TAX MONEY IS WASTED ANYWAYS!!!
AND STILL YOU KEEP VOTING LIKE A GOOD GOYIM
HAHAHA IMAGINE THINKING THE 0.05 PERCENT OF YOUR NATIONAL BUDGET GOING TO UKRAINE IS ACTUALLY THE REASON YOU'RE POOR

LOL, LMAO, EVEN

>>64112053
>>64114069
I've curbstomped people IRL for not supporting the Ukraine.

>>64111649
>>64111722
This is a real answer. Thank you.

>>64114107
Hey janny I know you find this pic humiliating, eat shit. This is no more off topic than the retard I'm replying to, you faggot cuck. This is why we hate you. You ruined this board more than anyone else. You are why this board is just unfunny faggotry now. This is your fault.

>>64111977
>>64112025
>>64112053
>>64114069
>>64114107
>>64115357
Faggot (OP) here.

Kill yourselves.

>>64111511 (OP)
Just make your own. A weaponized RC jet can chase down a slow moving plane. Model rockets can be used in place of mortars, though they would not be difficult to make. It's just a tube and cannonball type that ignites when dropped onto a firing pin. You have to be dumb to not figure this out.

>>64111511 (OP)
There is a whole film with explanations.

>>64111649
where does the US rank in this?

>>64111511 (OP)

Mexican cartels managed to buy like 10k G36s from HK directly a few years ago. They bribed a couple of large metro police departments to generate official purchase orders for them, then bribed the salesman to look the other way by offering above MSRP. IIRC HK got basically a slap on the wrist from the German government for it years later. I assume most arms dealing is done this way.

>>64115476
>where does the US rank in this?
depends on what exactly you want to do and where you are from

surprisingly less loopholes than most EU countries
and (from what I know) more "lenient" on the actual criminal stuff (also because it's harder to control, less bureaucracy leaves less paper trails)

generally easier / more options to export stuff legally
but there are longer (binding) blacklists for countries, persons, companies etc.

I mainly work in Europe, so I don't know that much about the US

>>64114069
And I'm bitter and don't support all the other ways the government wasted my taxes, as an American bitching about taxes is both patriotic and a constitutionally protected right

>>64114107
Lol
I bet you're 350lbs, have purple hair and cut your penis off
You remind me of the "I punch Nazis" faggots

>>64111965
>real clever shit to circumvent laws and embargoes
TL;DR please?

>>64111511 (OP)
>larger stuff.
>big name defense contractors
don't be stupid. even a light artillery piece is too big a thing to be caught selling

>particularly the
CHINESE

>MANPADs
North Korean MANPADs have been spotted going around

anything else up to HMGs and RPGs, inclusive, it's just a matter of finding a turdie African corrupt enough to sell you their weapons while they order more from legitimate contractors
for example, even EU weapons companies aren't going to blink at selling rifles and rockets to, say, Liberia
but how robust are Liberia's internal controls to prevent its officials from reselling them and marking them as "expended in training"? Jack shit

>>64111649
Y

>>64116624
i'll trust the equipment manufacturer guy over you.
but of course, i don't doubt chinese and NK sale of weapons to non-state actors. i am more interested in how people acquire actual quality weapons.

>>64116624
whats stopping muslims from getting manpads in europe?

>>64118587
Same reason nobody else can get them in Europe, their governments hate fun and won't spend more than the bare minimum on making cool shit

>>64118602
kek

>>64118587
they're achieving their aims far more effectively pretending to be refugees, why rock that boat by committing terrorism?
they were probably crying over shit like Bataclan and Hebdo because it exposed their infiltration and turned some public opinion against them before they're ready to strike

>>64111511 (OP)
> How do black market arms sales work?
Typically what happens is enlisted personnel sneak an M60 from their base and sell it to a boomer who then resells it from a hotel room in Las Vegas

>>64118587
Probably a combo of not knowing the right people, not having the money required, and people not wanting to sell to them. Any arms dealer not looking to get black bagged isn't going to sell a bunch of manpads to some random Arab with a European passport.

I can actually explain.

Usually there are arms brokers who buy from manufacturers. 1000 guns for 100k.

Then they sell those '1000' guns to african dictator. African dictator recieves only 900.

Arms dealer sells the 100 AK's to willing buyer for 20k.

Arms dealer gives dictator 10k an pockets 10k.

Arms dealer now waits for payment and then discloses in what container in warehouse X the 100 ak's are stored and the buyer can pick them up.

>>64111511 (OP)
>I'm talking actual ordinance; MANPADs, mortars, etc. Even larger stuff.
From what i've learned with an legit arms dealer that has an international scale business
>certain entities like terror groups, guerillas and even intelligence agencies create international companies (full legit business) specialized in arms dealing
>said companies goes to auction markets located in different countries (mostly africa or ME)
>they all bid to get what they want (can only find second hand stuff, very rarely brand new shit)
>whoever made the biggest bid win whatever he set his bid on
and then they have to ship it all the way back to their warehouse, using once an other legitimate shipment business.

basically unlike buying a glock from tyronne, it's all done by corporation that do pay taxes and have employes except all employes are part of some group that want the guns and purchase directly from official government entities that sell surplus weaponry to whoever can afford it.
Some that got duped (like for exemple that was a case of Talibans wanting AK rifles but got STG-44 instead) will resell the weapons to get rid of the unwated shit at a private auction and then other will try to get it from them, litterally funding the legit taliban owned business in the process (and so give the talibans more money)

>>64122041
>like for exemple that was a case of Talibans wanting AK rifles but got STG-44 instead
Working original STG-44s, replicas, or non functional ones? I can imagine a collector seething because a bunch of authentic STGs got diverted to an anti Taliban glowie op.