Thread 64118942

They made em in a place called Peenormonday.

>>64118942 (OP)
>64118942
PEENEMÜNDE you fucking retarded mutt.

>>64118950
>PEEN

>>64118942 (OP)
>4.5km CEP

It was fucking amazing for the time but was completely outdated by 1950.

>>64118965
So you're saying it still mogs the average Russia missile?

>>64118969
No, while I'm all for TZD I'm not delusional.

>>64118975
What is that? Grad with VT fuzes?

>>64118965
That's the average for all versions, the radio-assisted V-2 was better than a Scud of the late 1950s.

>>64118942 (OP)
What if Germany bombed London with Shaheed drones? Would it have been better for them?

>>64119025
Germany had V-1s, and that kind of 'strategic' bombing just does not work.

>>64119025
If they had modern GPS / INS guidance they would have won the war, making Shaheeds would be a waste of time but guided Nebelwerfers would be devastating.

>>64119096
>INS guidance

In WW2, Subs and Torpedos had this. It was just impossible to minituarise, as it was mostly analog, mechanical computers.

>>64119155
A physical gyro drifts a heap more than modern solid state INS and you can only have one due to size, weight and cost while solid states are so small and cheap you can easily have 3 averaging values to minimize drift even further.

>>64118942 (OP)
V-2 is the most ineffectual weapons program in history and can not be denied

1.) It was the costliest weapons program in history at the time, moreso than the Manhattan Project if you include industrial losses by repackaging production in other areas for V2 production

2.) It was useless militarily. It was too inaccurate to hit any military targets, it could only be used to take potshots at civilian areas. This did nothing but piss off the Allies even more, leading to intensified bombing of German cities that actually DID cause mass destruction

3.) Fueling the useless weapon exacerbated the already chronic fuel shortage in Germany. When potato derived fuel was used it exacerbated the already chronic food shortages in Germany. Germans were quite literally starving to death because Hitler had to kill handfuls of British grannies here and there.

4.) It killed more people building than in use.

Germans needed an effective four engine strategic bomber, non-shit/compromised intelligence network, or a working logistical resupply system, not useless wunderwaffe

>>64119527
> kill handfuls of British grannies here and there.
those useless subhuman rockets killed nothing except maybe some ants occasionally..

>>64118975
I still don't get wtf is going on with Russian clusters, the US could get a fuckton more into a tactical ballistic missile in the 80s and they even added an incendiary effect. Fifteen years later, the best they could do is 30-40 bomblets?

>>64119009
Iskander cluster warhead.

>>64119527
He was told this and blew it off. It's a real shame he was so smitten with it. It was a wonder weapon for the time, I see the appeal, but it just was not at all effective.

>>64119527
It's pretty shocking reading about Germans making all those retard-tier investments of their very limited resources in wartime, especially compared to today's Germans being fairly risk-averse folk. Was literally everyone involved on a meth binge from 1940 to 1945 or what?

>>64119746
His generals and advisors would actually tell him this shit, some of them at least, but he would generally dismiss what they would say, he had final say and once he did it was carried out. Combine this with the copious amount of lap dogs and yes men that he had and the idea of working towards the Fuhrer. It wasn't all him, you had people telling him what he wanted to hear in many cases, but he would in most cases side with those people and not dissenting opinion.

>>64118950
Noguns alert

>>64119527
That the is ww2 German weapon development in a nutshell.
And it was not Hitler fault as all the general conviniently told everyone after the war.
Have massive fuel shortages? Develop massive lumbering heavy thanks, gas guzzeling jets and rockets
Having terrível logística? Develop complicated and non Standart designs with 50 billion variants
Having material shortages? Develop jet and rockers that require special metal that you dont have acess to

The worst thing is all the wearaboos and normies VHHHGGGING Over muh german technology that for the most part where utter dead ends

>>64119527
The tech itself was ground breaking, it just wasn't what we needed at the time.

>>64118965
kek, what nukular warhead would be best to fit an to an A4 (or A9 A10 missile) ?
I assume most are either too light or too heavy

>>64119746
ideology and desperation does that to you

>>64119809
tabun or sarin
about 1/3 of the warhead would be the actual chemical
2/3 for converted sd 2 bomblets.
A clusterized chemical v2 variant would be quite devastating against south east england during 1944-45

>>64119869
Not as devastating as the massive British chemical stockpiles would be against German cities, which is probably why Hitler never went there

It is strange that Hitler, despite his catastrophic madness, even ordered the destruction of domestic infrastructure after the war, always opposed the use of chemical weapons.

>>64119958
hard to fully calculate the devastation, nerve agents is more fast acting with far higher lethal rate than older phosgene/mustard that occupied the western powers stockpile

>>64119958
>tfw reaping the whirlwind

>>64119790
we?

>>64118942 (OP)
More like a MRBM. The thing was useless on the tactical scale.

>>64118950
We don't have those funny dots over vowels in our alphabet, Mehmet.

>>64118942 (OP)
I recommend anyone visiting London to go to the IWM and see an intact V1 among other cool stuff.

>>64119975
I always thought it had something to do with the fact that he was gassed during the Great War. An irrational aversion, combined with knowledge that the allies would retaliate in kind if chemical weapons were used, so tabun/sarin/etc... were never deployed.

>>64119869
Effective dispersal and safe transport of the payload that required precise temperature ranges to remain stable would have been difficult with the V2. The V1 on the other hand as a glide bomb could have been retrofitted for chemical use with much less effort.
>>64119958
Mustard gas is pussy shit compared to any nerve agent. The Allies ignored reports of a novel German gas until they were standing in the factories producing it and effective organophosphate PPE basically didn't exist yet, it's deployment would have been a wholesale slaughter not seen until the usage of the atomic bomb. A single 500 kg bomb with tuned dispersal could kill 100,000 if deployed over typical urban densities of the time. Germs had 40,000 tons of their WMD stockpiled by the end of the war, much of it already weaponized by the critical period in 1942 where it's use would have made the most impact. It not being used was mostly down to Hitlers personal aversion to chemical warfare than flimsy interwar treaties or the dubious threat of retaliation during the period of relative parity in the air.
>>64121167
The Germans in yet another egregious intelligence failure just assumed the Allies both knew about weaponized nerve agents and had their own program, which probably contributed to their reluctance despite the alleged total war of annihilation they believed in, in addition to what you mentioned.

>>64118942 (OP)
>>64118950
PEE N ON MonDAY!

>>64121883
>The Allies ignored reports of a novel German gas until they were standing in the factories producing it and effective organophosphate PPE basically didn't exist yet,
The Allies knew about organophosphates. They were actively testing them at the time. PPE also existed and had for a decade or so by that point.

>>64121883
>A single 500 kg bomb with tuned dispersal could kill 100,000 if deployed over typical urban densities of the time.
Lol

>>64121883
>Mustard gas is pussy shit compared to any nerve agent.
Does it really matter when you're operating on the scale the Combined Bomber Offensive was? Like, oh no phosgene isn't nearly as efficient... fine, but we'd be dropping it in (literally) kiloton sized batches.

>>64123070
he's not wrong though
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK233734/table/ttt00013/?report=objectonly
Here's the modern data on tabun toxicity

>LCt50a Percutaneous, vapor 15,000 mg-min/m3
>LCt50a Inhalation, vapor 70 mg-min/m3

Even with modern gas mask that should provide protect against nerve gas, 15g of tabun vapor would be enough to wipe out 50% of the population without specialized impregnable clothes/hazmat suits
That's not even mention back in the 40s, not even M5 assault masks that was issued to d-day troops proved to be enough against tabun, so the number you be concern about within the 40s era equipment would be the lethal value for Inhalation, especially against any civilian targets.
both v1 and v2 would've been highly suitable for chemical weapon delivery, and in the case of v2, the brits didn't even have any early warning system

>>64124704
Douhet's projections were based on absolutely perfect distributions too. And you never go full Douhet.

>>64124704
>Krauts are shooting the rockets with poison gas instead of showing us their fireworks?
>oh shit, no fun in Dresden then I guess, gota bomb those launching sites instead.

>>64125713
ofc, the projected number for one single bomb in that case was rather lousy, and fear mongering, no doubt
a better estimate could be deduced from 2013 ghouta attack though
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghouta_chemical_attack
50-60 litre of sarin estimated for each grad rocket, with a total of 8-12 grad used.
so roughly 480-600kg of sarin
The fatalities range from 300 to 1700
tabun is about one and a half worse in lethality compare to sarin
with about 2500 v1 and 1500 v2 launched at britain, a fatalities figure of 500,000 to 4,000,000 would be quite plausible though.
>>64125887
Allied air force did actively engage in hunting down the launch platforms, yet v2 sites at the hague were active up until march 1945 though

>>64118942 (OP)
>German ATACMS
>can only hit a city sized target
You are better of with the V1 missile. The V1 is drastically cheaper to produce (4% of the v2), shorter build time and have the same warhead. Also unlike the V2 the V1 eats up allied personnel and resources in the form of fighter pilots, AAA gunners and support staff using radar and trying to direct intercept of V1 missiles.
V1
>Approximately 10,000 were fired at England; 2,419 reached London, killing about 6,184 people and injuring 17,98
>It was later calculated that if Wachtel had disregarded the agents' reports and relied on the radio data, he would have made the correct adjustments to the V-1's guidance, and casualties might have increased by 50 per cent or more

V2
>United Kingdom, 1,402: London (1,358)
>An estimated 2,754 civilians were killed in London by V-2 attacks with another 6,523 injured,

>>64120200
IMO Ohka is a real beauty
Shame the idea behind it was absolutely retarded and it was even worse than useless

>>64119716
> the best they could do is 30-40 bomblets?

Hey, at least the missing bomblets could be put to some good use(aka dacha for some high ranking general or more booze for comrade conscriptovich)

>>64126264
Oh yeah definitely, to walk in and unexpectedly see one staring you in the face was rad.

>>64118961
Suck it, hans. German as a language is fucking abhorrent

>>64118942 (OP)
dumping (trialen on london)

>>64128349
>>64128353
interesting, didn't know a-4b was ever more than a sketch

>>64123037
Less so than the Axis comparitively knew about atomic weapons. The Allies basically ignored its potential for weaponization in favor of "good enough" phosgene and mustard and were completely lapped by Germany in this regard. Not that it ended up mattering.

Fully protective PPE absolutely was a post war development. The closest thing to MOPP style gear was essentially just a impractically cumbersome rubber suit that was far too heavy and expensive to see field use or anything approaching mass manufacture. Chemical protection at the time consisted of a mask and maybe a plastic bag that didn't cover you entirely, and both were meant for WW1 era gas attacks.

>>64123135
If Germany had targeted UK air bases and ports with nerve agent instead of HE, the allied retaliation capability would have been severely diminished

>>64118969
>>64119716
>>64127218
You tourist niggers are so fucking insufferable

>>64118950
Pee n munch ?

>>64118969
Funny how the R1 was just a copy of the V2 with some improvements.

>>64118975
Why do that look like more of a firework show ???

>>64119096
> guided Nebelwerfers
it's called Close air support, something german couldn no longer afford by 1944

>>64121167
> it had something to do with the fact that he was gassed during the Great War
just failed intelligence effort led germans into believing Allies somehow also had or at least some clues about the nerve agents, which both eventually turned out to be the furthest from the truths

>>64126264
> useless
mostly due to it's range, forcing the carrier bomber to get as close as possible to the fleet defensive parameter

>>64131707
Found the seething vatnigger tourist.

>>64120150
Sure you do, ranjeet singh

>>64129308
>'it's tape'

>>64119821
No it’s the teuton autism

>>64119746
When you're losing and smaller than your enemy you have no choice but to gamble wildly on untried technology. V1/V2 were obviously bad though, and should had been stopped the moment it was clear they were worthless.

>>64118965
>4.5km CEP
ouch

>>64139801
> tape
Gape :^)

>>64118950
i want to play bf1942 now

>>64119771
>Develop massive lumbering heavy thanks
So instead they should've made a bunch of shittier tanks that would need even more fuel but perform worse in combat?
>gas guzzeling jets
See above
>Having terrível logística? Develop complicated and non Standart designs with 50 billion variants
Everybody except maybe the soviets had a bunch of different variants and modifications
>Having material shortages? Develop jet and rockers that require special metal that you dont have acess to
Yeah man I'm sure it never crossed their mind to just use something they had more of

>>64119771
>lumbering heavy tanks
Stug, pziv and panther were their mainstays from 1943 and on, the tigers, as unreliable as they were, weren't responsible for the final defeat at all.
Problem was, the luftwaffe was attritioned to death by allied air force endless bombing campaigns. They could have stood a chance with a timely mass introduction of the wasserfall SAM, but otherwise,no (and yes, not even the german proximity fuze would have helped)

>>64119716
>>64134082
Russians build systems for visual spectacle rather than actual effectiveness.

>>64148100
I mean the R1 was an actual improvement over the V2 if you read up on its development.

>>64119716
i expected an iskander cluster warhead to be much bigger and more damaging, this one looks like a typical MLRS barrage

>>64118942 (OP)

> ATACMS

Lmfao. Based on the cost alone, it could never be a tactical system.

>>64148089
>not even the german proximity fuze would have helped
Ironically, one weakness of German flak was that their timed shells lacked impact fuses until late in the war. A not insignificant number of Allied bombers came home with holes of shells that punched straight through an aircraft before detonating far above their formation.

Given the fundamental difficulties of beam-riding guidance, German SAM projects would never have come to fruition. Microwave tube radar and proximity fuses are essential.

>>64146336
> Everybody except maybe the soviets had a bunch of different variants and modifications
For the west, it’s just 69 Sherman variants, and they all were interchangeable.
It was the Soviet that operated on multiple tank models

>>64119757
Him insisted on upgunning the pz iv, and later on the uparmored panther from Vk30 prototype wasn’t bad decisions by any mean

>>64145678
> t.

>>64118942 (OP)
we need to bring back checkered scheme for rockets

>>64120150
thats why you fuck up word pronounciation so often and have spelling bee competitions. english written text is awful and doesnt represent the spoken language at all.

>>64151534
> this one looks like a typical MLRS barrage

retarded, are you really saying this looks like a barrage from Grads?

all bomblets arriving within a few seconds in circular pattern

vs

the dozens of seconds and massive CEP of Grad

>>64119014
did it ever reach hypersonic threshold though ?

>>64166979
No, it didn't have enough deltaV, and it would have required an slight redesign of the nosecone to avoid more spontaneous detonation of the warhead as it was already happening, the aerodynamic heating was a problem. They planned a Scud-A and Scud-B like missiles using the Wasserfall as base (very similar to the V-2 and it was the basis for the Scuds)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_V-2

>>64166979
No, it didn't have enough ΔV, and it would have required an slight redesign of the nosecone to avoid more spontaneous detonation of the warhead as it was already happening, the aerodynamic heating was a problem. They planned a Scud-A and Scud-B like missiles using the Wasserfall as base (very similar to the V-2 and it was the basis for the Scuds)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_V-2

>>64145678
I miss having the maps where you use the warships. Now all bf games only lets you control boats or limited control on a "Behemoth".

>>64118950
Why are there Dippen Dots over your U?

>>64120209
It's crazy to think that not a single country in Africa can match this