Thread 64125078

With F-5s being retired by RoCAF and RoKAF as well as countries keeping them on storage, is it a good idea to upgrade them sensibly before giving them to Ukraine?

It's a supersonic jet capable of launching sidewinder, Amraam/Derby and paveway/JDAM, it 's cheap, definitely cheaper to run than F-16 (let alone Mirage 2000) and some F-5E version are even more advanced than whatever third hand F-16 that Ukraine got rn

>>64125078 (OP)
no

>>64125078 (OP)
>is it a good idea to upgrade them sensibly before giving them to Ukraine?
Upgrade them senselessly, mount phoenixes and napalm canisters

if someone wants to pay for it sure

>>64125078 (OP)
>F-5s being retired by RoCAF and RoKAF
the airframes that are retired even by these guys are so clapped-out that it would be a disservice to the AFU
they would probably make better use of PC-7s armed with prox-fuzed cannon pods for killing Gerans over Kyiv with

why do people dickride the f-5 so much
it's an okay plane that's cheap, it's nothing special. it's not like it's cheap enough for (you) to own.

>>64125287

It's good a good aesthetic, unique approach to design for a US aircraft, and people are usually interested in "What if..." more than "What happened was...".

>>64125078 (OP)
Who gives a fuck

>>64125078 (OP)
No more free rides, slavs. Pay up in blueberries and blondes.

>>64125078 (OP)
>can't fly from Kiev to Donetsk without fuel tanks

>>64126521
no one thinks your canadian mr chink

>>64126597
you're

>>64125078 (OP)
No because gooks refuse any equipment support to Ukraine because they don't want to upset relations with Russia and China would throw a massive hissy fit if Taiwan sent anyone weapons. Either way those F-5s are probably held together by duct tape at this point with how old they are and there is a reason they are being retired.

>>64126716
>he doesn't know

>>64126716
Didn't SK offer Ukraine and the EU their gear for sale when it was confirmed that the Norks had joined the war?

>>64126833
they were amongst the first to hand over large amounts of materiel; he's an ignorant fool
they did it quietly because they didn't want to rile up the Norks, up until Putin openly went to Kim for help. after that there was no more point in hidng

>>64126803
>>64126833
>>64126842
They haven't sent anything past some humanitarian shit. They can't even send any lethal weapons due to their laws, but they've spent the last 2 years saying they are 2 weeks away from giving Ukraine a couple of K600 CEVs. Even the nips have sent more shit with much tighter laws.

>>64126882
>South Korea lent 550,000 rounds of M107 155 mm artillery shells to the United States in 2022 and 2023, which the shells were originally produced by the United States and brought to South Korea between 1974 and 1978 as WRSA-K (War Reserve Stockpile for Allies–Korea) then transferred the ownership to South Korea. Since South Korea law prohibits sale or transfer of lethal weapons to Ukraine, the shells filled the U.S. inventory while the United States supplied Ukraine from its own inventory. The United States requires to sign a contract with South Korean company for recompense, and South Korean military seeks to receive the state-of-art ammunition instead of old M107.[741][742][743]
>South Korea provided 100 million KRW worth of non-lethal military supplies such as bulletproof vests, helmets, gas masks, medical supplies, ready-to-eat (MREs), etc., which were originally to be delivered to the military of Afghanistan. Delivered via NATO in March 2022.[744][745][746] As of July 2023, South Korea sent a total of 4.85 billion KRW worth of non-lethal supplies in four occasions, with portable mine detectors and bomb proof suits included in the 4th shipment.[747]
>South Korea donated US$100 million (as of Dec 2022) to international organization for humanitarian aid in Ukraine.[748]
>Bilateral official development assistance to be increased by designating Ukraine as key 중점협력국 "Priority Cooperation Country" for years 2021–2025.[749][750]

Now go away you ignorant fuck

>>64126895
>They haven't sent anything past some humanitarian shit.
>Here's a bunch of humanitarian shit
Like I said everything is bog standard to what even the nips were able to provide on much more restrictive export laws. Japanese mortar rounds sent through the US were seen as early as 2022. They are doing the same shit with Patriots too, and they sent a bunch of retired HMVs and Pajeros along with mine clearing tractors. If you are being handily beat out by the nips in terms of equipment sent its sad since they have some of the most restrictive export laws on the planet. Find me a single picture of anything Korea sent like the vests or uniforms being used in active service.

>>64126929
>Like I said
no, what you said was
>They haven't sent anything past some humanitarian shit
half a million 155mm shells is some crazy humanitarian shit you got there, dawg

>>64126933
>half a million 155mm shells is some crazy humanitarian shit you got there, dawg
WRSA-K isn't even administered by Korea it's a US stockpile for them to dip into in the event of a war that Korea doesn't have permission to touch without US permission. The US had to transfer the WRSA-K stockpile to Korea to then release them as the US couldn't just take them off the peninsula according to the agreement. Korea had a whole 5 minutes of ownership as an administrative requirement according to some agreements. The US literally took their own shells back and let Korea participate because of a contractual obligation.
>Find me a single picture of anything Korea sent like the vests or uniforms being used in active service.
Still waiting

>>64126964
>WRSA-K
those shells were sold to Korea two decades ago, not five minutes
>picture
goalpost shifting, but sure

>>64126982
>those shells were sold to Korea two decades ago, not five minutes
And Korea still gave back US produced artillery shells back to the US for the US to send to Ukraine. Again, still on the level of nips who have much tighter laws except they are actually sending stuff off their own production lines instead of handing the US back it's own missiles.
https://www.stripes.com/theaters/asia_pacific/2024-08-01/japan-patriot-missiles-ukraine-14688361.html
At what point does giving back the US it's arty shells for them to send completely different ones to Ukraine lead to Korea sending over F-5s (even with the US as a middleman) when they are still struggling to send 2 K600s that they promised back in 2023?

>>64127009
>it's own
you have a very weird sense of ownership

>>64125078 (OP)
Nah. They've barely gotten the f16 crews up and running. Sweden offered them some gripen so they have pilots training on it but they can't really deal with the extra logistics yet

>>64127022
>you have a very weird sense of ownership
The US held ownership of them and basically gave them to Korea for peanuts to hold onto in the same warehouses with the status quo staying the same. They were 1970s shells with a lot of them requiring de-milling during the original sale because they weren't safe to use which is why Korea didn't both using the stock and replacing them with newer shells. They gave them back to the US and the US gave entirely different shells to Ukraine. They are simply to fill US warehouses instead to never be used to maintain reserve requirements. Korea couldn't even be bothered to send the US newer, domestically produced shells. Again Japan is one of the most restricted countries when it comes to exports and this is the disparity. Please tell me in what world does this lead to Korea sending F-5s?

>>64127050
>same warehouses
wrong
>entirely different
wrong

You've been corrected a few times, yet you're still deliberately distorting the facts with your imagination of what those shells might be, twisted in the worst possible way, because there's no way you can know that they were "entirely different shells".
The WRSA-K stockpile is an active stockpile in Korea that is gradually replaced as the shells go out of date. The shells that went to Ukraine are from the last batches, still usable and in-date; they were scheduled to be demilitarised and disposed later. Instead they were transferred early, so to speak.

>Please tell me in what world does this lead to Korea sending F-5s?
Yet another goalpost shift, and irrelevant, because your original claim had nothing to do with F-5s, it was
>They haven't sent anything past some humanitarian shit
and that has been soundly disproven.

>>64127087
>You've been corrected a few times, yet you're still deliberately distorting the facts with your imagination of what those shells might be, twisted in the worst possible way, because there's no way you can know that they were "entirely different shells".
https://www.reuters.com/world/south-korea-lend-500000-rounds-artillery-shells-us-report-2023-04-12/
>The newspaper said the shells would be used primarily by the United States to fill its stockpile.
The shells were always meant to fill depleted US stockpiles. Even the most generous Korean sources try to say its "unclear" if they were transferred to Ukraine. The transfer didn't even facilitate
>The WRSA-K stockpile is an active stockpile in Korea that is gradually replaced as the shells go out of date.
>The shells that went to Ukraine are from the last batches
Your own source says they were the 60s-70s oldstock
>which the shells were originally produced by the United States and brought to South Korea between 1974 and 1978
>Yet another goalpost shift, and irrelevant, because your original claim had nothing to do with F-5s, it was
>>They haven't sent anything past some humanitarian shit
>and that has been soundly disproven.
The thread is about transferring F-5s and my reply is in response saying no way are they sending F-5s because they've sent fuck all besides some humanitarian shit and some ancient shells back to US reserves to rust away. Your whole logic was that SK was "holding back" until NK joined, then it was gloves off, but they haven't sent anywhere close to what Japan has sent without even having a mortal enemy directly involved. They couldn't even meet their promises of 550,000 because most sources even from 2025 only put the transfer at 330,000.
>South Korean law prohibits providing weapons to war zones, but U.S. officials sought to persuade Seoul to provide munitions, estimating that about 330,000 155-mm shells could be transferred by air and sea within 41 days from Korea, according to the WP.

>>64127119
>The transfer didn't even facilitate
the US to provide extra shells to Ukraine since this was done, most upticks have come from increases in US domestic production that is kicking in this year.

>>64127119
>The shells were always meant to fill depleted US stockpiles
It's a political blind that anyone can see: shells go into stockpile and become "American", shells then go to Ukraine
if newer shells were substituted, there would be no point to this farce at all; the US can just issue shells from its own stockpile
but you twisted that, and furthermore injected your little entirely false
>The transfer didn't even facilitate
claim, hoping that it wouldn't be noticed, and also hoping that it wouldn't be noticed that your own source contradicts your claim.
Caught lying again.

>Your own source says they were the 60s-70s oldstock
Nope. The 60s-70s date that you disingenuously refer to is the program, but the shells were in-date up to 2024.
Caught lying yet again.

> my reply is in response saying no way are they sending F-5s because
Irrelevant; I'm calling out your claim that
>they've sent fuck all besides some humanitarian shit
as has been disproven.

>>64127160
>It's a political blind that anyone can see: shells go into stockpile and become "American", shells then go to Ukraine
Why? The US sent plenty of J-marked Japanese made mortar rounds with no issue. Again where they have much tighter restrictions
>if newer shells were substituted, there would be no point to this farce at all;
There is no farce.
>the US can just issue shells from its own stockpile
They did. Again there was no massive spike in 155mm deliveries after the transfer from Korea. They were simply to fill US reserve requirements that were depleted from earlier transfers.
>Nope. The 60s-70s date that you disingenuously refer to is the program, but the shells were in-date up to 2024.
It says in plain text that the shells were produced in the US from 1974 to 1978. There is 0 reference anywhere saying more modern shells were replenished by Korea then they would be Korean made rounds and not US made ones.
Here's another source.
>Among the possible candidates are 155mm shells that the US first brought to South Korea in the 1970s as part of its War Reserve Stocks for Allies (WRSA-K) to prepare for a possible total war on the Korean Peninsula, but that ended up being acquired by South Korea in 2008 due to the associated management costs.
>Irrelevant; I'm calling out your claim that
Irrelevant when the entire thread is about that and initial response was directly addressing that?
>as has been disproven.
Again, hasn't. They provided Ukraine with humanitarian shit and they provided the US with shells to replenish reserves that had long already been transferred to Ukraine.

>>64125287
Because Sprey.

>>64125078 (OP)
> Amraam/Derby

Nope, no one ever upgraded them to use those. Certainly not the Taiwanese or Koreans

>>64125078 (OP)
Canada's F-5s are nerfed versions of the F-5s sold around the world, as far as I know. They may serve better as drones, or even kamikaze drones.

>>64133183
What about using them as trainers?

>>64132692
>With F-5s being retired by RoCAF and RoKAF as well as countries keeping them on storage, is it a good idea to upgrade them sensibly before giving them to Ukraine?

You sure about that.

>>64133403
The F-5 was already based on the T-33 trainer.

>>64136120
>The F-5 was already based on the T-38 trainer
FTFY

>>64135117
If no such upgrade package currently exists, why bother to go through the expense of developing one when it would just be easier to upgrade older F-16s instead?

>>64136142
Thanks.

>>64125078 (OP)
Not only would it cost more than it's worth, those airframes are ran into the ground, and are kinematically dogshit for BVR.

>>64125287
>>64126187
The problem with keeping it in service is it was designed to defeat Mig-21s. It was perhaps the best WVR fighter ever designed for its time, but that doesn't mean much anymore. The more modern variants are serviceable to a degree but its original design limits its BVR capabilities to the point where it's not worth keeping around unless you can't/don't want to pay for a replacement.