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Thread 64127703

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Anonymous No.64127703 >>64127705 >>64127720 >>64127724 >>64127727 >>64127741 >>64128008 >>64128023 >>64128083 >>64128494 >>64128553 >>64129452 >>64129478 >>64129943 >>64131392 >>64136144 >>64139445 >>64141427 >>64141650 >>64142123 >>64142450 >>64144352
So who is the premier manufacturer of boats?
For Tanks we have up and coming Korea. Leopard tanks were the main tank exports but has been overtaken by the K2.
For planes its always America.
What about boats? Is it Germany? Sweden? Korea? Or is it now Japan?
Anonymous No.64127705 >>64127712 >>64129820 >>64141658
>>64127703 (OP)
The US or Japan.
Anonymous No.64127712 >>64127735
>>64127705
the us isnt exporting ships
Anonymous No.64127720 >>64130982
>>64127703 (OP)
Uhh china because they will have the first operational goon batallion super mechs. Worst Korea banned fertility and these will make the problem even worse.
Anonymous No.64127724
>>64127703 (OP)
>Leopard tanks were the main tank exports
They were major exports because Germany had thousands of them left over as cold war surplus and the buyers bought anywhere from a handful to a few dozen at a time.

>boats
No one, really. It's such a niche sector that there's no one dominant firm.
Anonymous No.64127727 >>64127729
>>64127703 (OP)
probably France
they are willing to sell you just about everything and are selling just about everything
diesel subs to Indonesia, nuclear subs to Brazil, frigates, amphibious assault ships
Anonymous No.64127729 >>64127737
>>64127727
They almost sold ships to Russia.
Anonymous No.64127734 >>64128008 >>64129660 >>64142460
Here are the major exporters of naval ships:

France: A leading exporter of frigates and submarines.

Germany: Renowned for its advanced, high-tech submarines.

United States: A primary supplier of a wide range of vessels through government-to-government sales.

Russia & China: Significant exporters of various warships, from frigates to subs.

South Korea & Italy: Major players with advanced shipbuilding industries, securing key contracts for frigates and other vessels.

Sweden: A niche but important exporter, specializing in highly advanced submarines.

Japan: An emerging player in the naval export market.

These nations consistently lead the global market for warships.
Anonymous No.64127735
>>64127712
The question was manufacturer, not exporter.
Anonymous No.64127737 >>64127743
>>64127729
I don't see how that makes them any less of a naval exporter
Anonymous No.64127741 >>64127753 >>64128029
>>64127703 (OP)
Purpose of that stupid 1nm gun at the bow?
Anonymous No.64127743 >>64127748
>>64127737
Just adding to his point.
They almost didn't give two shits on who's buying.
Anonymous No.64127748 >>64127982 >>64128075
>>64127743
when they signed the contract the russians weren't invading Ukraine the funny green men didn't even show up jet
Anonymous No.64127753 >>64127772
>>64127741
>what is this? a boat for ants?
Anonymous No.64127772
>>64127753
Hypothetically speaking, could you stock enough provisions on that boat to ferry an ant colony through the atlantic and into say calais?
Anonymous No.64127961
italy
Anonymous No.64127982
>>64127748
Point still stands. Not even 25 years prior they woulda been shooting at eachother in Germany.
Anonymous No.64128008 >>64128086
>>64127703 (OP)
>So who is the premier manufacturer of boats?
For export, on the top end it would probably be the UK (BAE). Given the Type 26's price point / capability and so far the ONLY exporter of SSNs.

That's not including Babcock's Type 31 whose successfully bidded Poland and Indonesia FFGs programmes. They're aiming for 30 unit orders by 2030.

>>64127734
You're amiss to exclude the UK. They're a resurgent market player. You also forget to mention Spain (Navantia) and the Dutch (Damen). Both successful FFG and naval auxiliary exporters.
Anonymous No.64128023
>>64127703 (OP)
>overtaken by the K2
That's not actually true gooktard
Anonymous No.64128029
>>64127741
iirc it’s supposed to be an OTO 76mm but it looks comically undersized for the ship
Anonymous No.64128075
>>64127748
They had invaded georgia at that point though
Anonymous No.64128083
>>64127703 (OP)
>For Tanks we have up and coming Korea. Leopard tanks were the main tank exports but has been overtaken by the K2.
LOL Lmao even
Anonymous No.64128086
>>64128008
He is without a doubt some upset frog
Anonymous No.64128494
>>64127703 (OP)
>For Tanks we have up and coming Korea
lmao
Anonymous No.64128553 >>64128878 >>64129072
>>64127703 (OP)
>but has been overtaken by the K2
In Poland sure but the K2 has yet to find a single foreign buyer besides them. Meanwhile a bunch of European countries made fresh orders for Leopards 2A8 in the past two years.
Anonymous No.64128878 >>64131464
>>64128553
Is the A8 so much better than the K2? I was thinking the K2 is much cheaper and is on par with A7.
Anonymous No.64129072
>>64128553
aside from ukraine, Poland has the greatest need for modern tanks in the entire world. The fact that they chose the K2 can't be overlooked.
besides, the turk atlay is basically a K2 so there is another buyer
Anonymous No.64129452
>>64127703 (OP)
You fucking korean gook nigger. Why the fuck are you lying.
Anonymous No.64129466
>thinly veiled Korea numbah won thread
Tell me about the SLBM again
Anonymous No.64129478
>>64127703 (OP)
Premier currently, Japan or maybe Sweden.
Premier in the next 5 years? uSA.
They're rebuilding steel mills and boatyards
Anonymous No.64129660 >>64129735
>>64127734
America doesn't sell ships unless they're retiring them
Anonymous No.64129735 >>64129829 >>64131827
>>64129660
Ask the Saudis about that.

Also, the US exports and licenses missiles, VLS, torpedoes, radar and sensors, etc.
Anonymous No.64129820 >>64129897
>>64127705
It kind of depends on what the question means. The US is terrible at manufacturing hulls but excellent at manufacturing almost all of the actual systems which go into those hulls. Arguably that doesn't mean they're good at manufacturing boats, even if most of the boats which get manufactured use the American AEGIS combat system with American missiles and Raytheon/Lockheed SPY-6/7 radars, Raytheon sonars, L3Harris electro-optical systems, and GE gas turbines to power them.
Anonymous No.64129829 >>64131827
>>64129735
>Ask the Saudis about that.
*checks notes*
Ah yes, the last successful contract won was 45 years ago...
Anonymous No.64129897 >>64130636
>>64129820
US overpays out the fucking ass for their ships so fleet size keeps shrinking
Anonymous No.64129943 >>64130652
>>64127703 (OP)
>For Tanks we have up and coming Korea. Leopard tanks were the main tank exports but has been overtaken by the K2.
KEK
Anonymous No.64130636 >>64130833 >>64133008
>>64129897
Why doesnt the US just buy hulls from Japan then retrofit it with all their systems? Isnt thtat just far far cheaper? You could effectively shift all your hull building costs into bonuses for sailors, meaning more sailors and more ships.
Anonymous No.64130652 >>64130973
>>64129943
Poland saw what was going on in Ukraine and decided to purchase a fuck ton of K2, despite existing logistical infrastructure for the Leo2. I mean, the writing is on the wall. Either the K2 is far more cost effective despite Poland being right next to Germany or it's just that much better spec wide.
Anonymous No.64130833
>>64130636
US standards for durability are honestly pretty fucking insane to the point no one else really matches.
>Oh there's a 20ft whole in the side of your ship gushing water?
Sucks for the guys in those rooms but the ships leaving under it's own power.
Like anything south of a direct nuclear hit i wouldn't bet on sinking a carrier
Anonymous No.64130973 >>64130979 >>64131995
>>64130652
If you think Poland purchased the K2 because it’s better than the leopard, then you might actually be retarded
Anonymous No.64130979 >>64131011
>>64130973
Ahh yes the ad hominem. Of course. You lost, kraut.
Anonymous No.64130982 >>64133749
>>64127720
>implying that isn't just an Oriental whore in an elaborate costume
Anonymous No.64131011 >>64131073
>>64130979
It’s ok retard
Anonymous No.64131073 >>64131984
>>64131011
K2 will be replacing your POS tank. Imagine not having an autoloader
Anonymous No.64131392
>>64127703 (OP)
??? I don't know. Who is fucking exporting boats? Feels like everyone is using their designs nowadays unless it's hand me downs.
Anonymous No.64131464 >>64131539
>>64128878
You were thinking wrong, A7 is better than K2.

Don't forget that Norway's tank bid put the K2 against A7V and it lost. It was only later that the deal was upgraded to A8.
Anonymous No.64131539
>>64131464
Does the A8 have an auto loader? I know it has hard kill APS compared to K2's shitty soft kill
Anonymous No.64131827
>>64129735
>Ask the Saudis about that.
>>64129829
>the last successful contract won was 45 years ago

Well, how do you respond? America is not a ship exporter.
In fact, it's IMPORTING the FREMM design, which it has attempted to change and promptly fucked up royally.
I mean, America has fucked the Constellation class WORSE than Australia would. And that's saying something.
Anonymous No.64131984
>>64131073
LOL lmao even. Sorry but K2 ain’t replacing shit
Anonymous No.64131995 >>64132007
>>64130973
Poland bought K2 and Abrams, not Leopard.
Anonymous No.64132007 >>64132023
>>64131995
Reread the comment and maybe you will get it
Anonymous No.64132023
>>64132007
sorry I didn't read the one before it. my comment stands alone
Anonymous No.64133008 >>64136068
>>64130636
The US damage control requirements do not gel well with how most countries build ships.

You can see this in how different nations build ships from the same lineage. Japan and Korea have both built Burke derivatives. They build them faster and for lower costs than the US does. They pull resources and expertise for warship construction from their commercial shipbuilding industries, which are large and productive. In comparison, US shipbuilding is specialized on building military ships and is slow and expensive.

The Japanese and Korean designs make modifications to the base design which speed up construction and reduce costs.

The issue is that lots of those modifications would also give USN naval architects a fucking stroke. They simplify construction but at the cost of significantly lower resistance to battle damage.

Complaints include:
-Using too much flammable material.
-Reduced mechanical and electrical system redundancy.
-Reduced density of water/airtight bulkheads leading to unacceptably large internal voids.
-Reduced robustness of bulkheads meaning that many of the the already insufficient number of bulkheads would likely not remain water/airtight after taking a hit.
-Not spacing out your fucking machinery so that a single hit can't take out your already insufficiently redundant systems.

The Chinese have never built a Burke but they likely suffer from the same issues if those stories about Type 052 damage control requirements are true.

US warship construction is very different from basically all foreign ship construction even if the end product looks very similar on the outside. Having Japan or Korea build a Burke the way the US does would cause some issues because doing it to spec would require them to do some things which are fundamentally very different from how they typically construct ships.

It might still be cheaper and faster but it's not straightforward.
Anonymous No.64133749
>>64130982
That would be pretty impressive levels of sameface heh. Also these are more glorified animatronics than anything they cant even walk. Japans hrp-4c was better and its much older.
Anonymous No.64136068 >>64137166
>>64133008
That's not the case for Japan though.
The JMSDF, drawing lessons from WW2, gives great importance to damage control, has a long history of naval engineering and institutional knowledge inherited from Imperial Navy, so they do know how to build a real warship. Also Mitsubishi Nagasaki shipyard, which will build a Mogami exported to Australia, is the same shipyard that built a Yamato class BB (Musashi), they know how to build a super durable warship as well.
Anonymous No.64136123 >>64136130
>not a single correct answer in the thread
Anonymous No.64136130 >>64137416
>>64136123
>b-but those are civilian ships
wake up you fucking morons, we have a huge problem here
https://www.americanmanufacturing.org/blog/chinas-shipbuilding-capacity-is-232-times-greater-than-that-of-the-united-states/

>A leaked slide U.S. Navy briefing slide reveals that China’s shipbuilding capacity is 232 times greater than the United States. Specifically, Chinese shipyards have a manufacturing capacity of roughly 23,250,000 million tons, whereas U.S. shipyards have less than 100,000 tons. The authors of the briefing slide predicted that by 2035, China will have amassed 475 battleships; the U.S. will have between 305 and 317.
Anonymous No.64136144 >>64141459
>>64127703 (OP)
What lesson can we learn from Indonesia's defense trade with South Korea? South Korea has matured on aerospace industry, particularly jet fighter. But in terms of naval industry, Indonesia should be careful. Look at the fate of submarine Indonesia bought from South Korea.

South Korean allege that loss of Nanggala was due to Indonesian. Despite the fact that defects have been found in every single one of South Korea's locally built submarines, and since Indonesia become submarine operators in 1960s, it only had one catastrophic sub accident with the sinking of KRI Nanggala which was overhauled by.....South Korea in 2012

Indonesian no longer trust South Korean products after the loss of KRI Nanggala. Which DSME blamed on Indonesian until defects were found on ALL of ROKN's KSS II Type 214

Three of our newest Nagapasa-class submarine, which is made and its construction here in Surabaya is supervised by DSME of SK, cant even submerged let alone fire its torpedoes because of poor construction and material used by the SKan.

Never ever make deals with the South Korean shipyards. Just remember what had happened with Nanggala because of cheap MRO by DSME… Those Korean made subs with fake labels of "Karya Anak Bangsa" are just scrappy toys.
Anonymous No.64137166 >>64137324 >>64141479
>>64136068
The Mogami's have extremely limited redundancy and survivability in battle damage conditions because the Japanese don't value it highly it let them cut down on crew requirements.
>A study of the CIC and bridge explains why Mogami frigates have achieved such small crew numbers – and it is not just due to high levels of automation but also alterations to how the ship is managed. The two best examples are that Kumano has neither a separate radio room or a damage control centre, the former usually directly behind the bridge and the latter buried deep in the bowels of the ship in a spot least likely to be hit during combat.

The logic goes:
>The calculation is simple: there is no need for the Mogami class to have a separate damage control centre because if the ship receives a major hit to the CIC – including from future hypersonic missiles – there will be no point in trying to continue operating. The most likely outcome of such a scenario is that the surviving crew will be heading for the life rafts. This also explains why the ship is without an emergency CIC, with further savings in personnel numbers.
https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/mogami-frigate-fast-and-stealthy-like-a-ninja/

But this is extreme cope. While a direct hit from a huge warhead will likely render any frigate unusable, the Mogami's configuration means that it's likely to suffer unrecoverable damage from even much smaller warheads. Even a badly damaged ship can be repaired much faster than building a new one. It's typically not a good idea to have your damage control strategy be "abandon ship".

The Japanese have chosen this option for exactly one reason.
Anonymous No.64137324
>>64137166
It's an acceptable trade off given the aggressive delivery schedule required. There's always scope to remediate if the ship's conops doesn't work in a later batch.

What you can't remediate is unavailable hulls going EoS which is the risk the RAN is facing.
Anonymous No.64137360
The US is the undisputed king of military shipbuilding. In terms of project scale and complexity no one else comes close. Next are the major European yards, notably the French. There is no one relevant below Europe. Asia has military shipbuilding but they make trash.
Anonymous No.64137416
>>64136130
ror, rumaor
Anonymous No.64139445 >>64141403
>>64127703 (OP)
>Tanks
America
>Planes
America
>Boats
>America
>Everything else
America

Its not that other countries don't have a contribution to make, its that they were never even a player.

>inb4 something something mutts or manufacturing or chinese century
Yes, we know you're a thirdie shill, fuck off and die already.
Anonymous No.64141403
>>64139445
America has never been a major player when it comes to tanks wtf
Anonymous No.64141427 >>64141438 >>64141453 >>64141461 >>64141999 >>64142172
>>64127703 (OP)
Only he could do this. Look at them grovel. I fully understand why euros cope so hard about him
Anonymous No.64141438 >>64141442 >>64141445 >>64141539
>>64141427
They don't appear to be grovelling. His minions in the background look fucking nervous though.
Anonymous No.64141442
>>64141438
Holy cope
Anonymous No.64141445
>>64141438
>n…n..no u
Anonymous No.64141453
>>64141427
No red carpet treatment for weak heads of state. Based
Anonymous No.64141459
>>64136144

The indonesian sub was sunk by a rare underwater wave phenomen that sucked it down to crush depth.
Anonymous No.64141461
>>64141427
Blessed image
Anonymous No.64141479 >>64141634
>>64137166
>https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/mogami-frigate-fast-and-stealthy-like-a-ninja/


"For the Mogami class, damage control and communications are run from the CIC. This has come about for two main reasons – the effectiveness of new generation Chinese anti-ship missiles, coupled with careful analysis of the sinking of the 12,000 tonne Russian cruiser the Moskva by one or two Ukrainian missiles on April 14, 2022. Japanese analysists believe that the Moskva was a highly capable, well defended ship but noted that it sank within a few hours of being attacked."

This is just bullshit, Moskva was in a very dilapidated state and what sunk it was not the missiles, it was the fires that the missiles started. And what do you need to fight fires? Crew! And Mogami is only going to have a 60 man crew in wartime.
Anonymous No.64141539
>>64141438
The Europeans ability to cope is one of the natural wonders of the world
Anonymous No.64141634
>>64141479
You shouldn't conflate the ship's normal and wartime compliment.
Anonymous No.64141650
>>64127703 (OP)
Does a warship really need a soccer field?
Anonymous No.64141658
>>64127705
U guys just copy or buy boat from France and Italy
Anonymous No.64141999 >>64142382
>>64141427
Merz is such a chad holy shit
Anonymous No.64142123
>>64127703 (OP)
France probably, it's one of the only one that has nuclear reactors figured out
Anonymous No.64142172
>>64141427
Roll your fighter
Anonymous No.64142382
>>64141999
Such a chad that I don’t even know who he/shey/they is
Anonymous No.64142450
>>64127703 (OP)
>Is it Germany?
Anonymous No.64142460
>>64127734
Thank you Grok GPT
Anonymous No.64143345
Anonymous No.64144352
>>64127703 (OP)
Is this the anon that shills Korean equipment?