Thread 64135643

I think we all know by now the choice to make the sig spear our new standard weapon is retarded. But with their line of thought and reasoning, why not just issue everyone the SCAR-H? Yeah issuing it to everyone would be a bitch on logistics, but it makes more sense than making a new rifle and caliber altogether, because either way it's gonna be a mess issuing them to everyone.

The SCAR is battle proven, reliable, highly modular, and fits literally all of the criteria set for the sig spear but better. Because we already have a fuck ton of 762 NATO

Better yet, just field it to SOF only.

>>64135643 (OP)
Or...or...
Issue the M4A1 Block II to special forces and keep the M4A1 as the standard issue rifle.
Also, reviewers will admit that the SCAR-17 is not as good as people think it is.

>>64135655
I'm saying if the army simply MUST give he conventional forces a new rifle. Also I've heard mixed reviews on the SCAR. Some SF guys like it, others don't. But that's just what I heard.

NGSW was the end result of the LSAT program, so after spending 15 years in the oven, the army wanted something to show for it investment.
>and fits literally all of the criteria set for the sig spear but better
No it doesnt, no .308 could. The ballistic demands of the NGSW program required a new round, and even then they barely scraped through.

delta doesn't use it and that's all i need to know

>>64135673
I mean, each SOF group has different missions, also delta is classified as fuck, so nobody really knows exactly the kit they use. Not to my knowledge anyway

>>64135684
we saw what they carried when they protected biden and it wasn't scar

>>64135666
.308 couldn't meet the original requirements, but it might not be that far off from the lower pressure 6.8 sig that ended up being adopted.

>>64135666
Considering the end result is a rifle that shoots 3-4 MOA and still won't pen Lvl IV plates, might as well have just stuck with .308 and saved time and money. But, that would mean SIG loses out on money, and we cannot have that.

>>64135643 (OP)
Because the point was for the MIC to make more money.

>>64135761
Or we could have gone with an M4A2 that's lighter, more accurate, and more robust, and filled it with lightweight polymer case ammunition, a portion of which is manufactured in-theater for logistical efficiency. If armor penetration is an actual concern, the only real answer has always been uranium core projectiles.

>>64135761
SIG got four major small arms contracts the last few years (M17/18, M7, M250, MG 338) along with accessories for them, AND will supply all the ammunition for the main fucking service rifle. It's crazy. And their ammunition and every last one of their guns fucking sucks. How anyone thinks there wasn't corruption involved is beyond me.

>>64135643 (OP)
Because overmatch retardation and top Army brass thinking WWII is gonna involve firefights against the PLA at 400+ yards with them using Level IV body armor. As always, the Army is staffed by absolute retards when it comes to small arms adoption and procurement.

>>64135905
The M7 and M250 are the same contract, and the answer is obvious: Sig is cutting all sorts of corners to ensure that they have the cheapest entrant by a massive margin. It's the same kind of shit that Microsoft does by providing Windows free to schools and not bothering to even try to stop piracy: there's all sorts of money to be made from owning the de facto ecosystem. Other companies aren't winning contracts because they're worried about how much money they'll make off *this* contract and not how much money they'll be able to rake in from ancillaries once they own *all* the contracts.

>>64135933
There has to be some ACU-tier shit involved, especially with the recent ND shit and severe underperformance of the M7. They will manufacture some sniper ammo too.

>>64136015
Sig already makes .277 Fury Hybrid Match ammo, the M7 shoots 3 MOA with it.

>>64135736
what was it then smartass

>>64136035
40rd URGIs

>>64136026
I mean they got another contract for 300 and 338 NM ammo

>>64135888
armor penetration is a concern but so is actually fielding ammunition in quantity holy shit is the average /k/ user really this retarded now?

>>64136278
And that's why uranium is the answer and tungsten never will be. You should take a moment to look up how much uranium exists in proven reserves in western countries, and how much of it gets used each year. You'd probably be surprised.

>>64135643 (OP)
They did field it to SOF only, and the program was arguably a disaster. The main criticism, listed, is that FN just did not give a fuck about fixing things. Nothing the SCAR does currently that other guns can't do better, cheaper. see: MRGG, recent SR-25 revisions, 417k etc.

>>64136282
yes, now go take a look where nearly 100% of it goes and how much effort is already put into that industry. spoilers: it's not manufacturing of any kind of product and it ain't a cake walk.

>>64136282
>>64136287
acutally sorry, depleted uranimum is probably more relevant- but that shit is also almost 100% in use already for very critical purposes.

>>64136282
>>64136287
>>64136290
also also, imagine carrying a carrier full of fucking mags of depleted uranimum rounds. that shit would be way heavier than lead (but so would tungsten).

>>64136287
You didn't look it up, so I'll spoonfeed you. There's more than twice as much uranium in the world as there is tungsten, and while China has fully half of the world's tungsten, Australia has the world's largest uranium deposits, and Canada, Europe, and the US have extremely large reserves as well.

On top of that, tungsten is an incredibly important strategic material that's used for lots of things on its own, but also used by the tens of thousands of tons in the production of high strength steels. Meanwhile, uranium is used for practically nothing and the vast majority of it is simply left in the ground. Tapping uranium reserves to manufacture billions of rounds of ammunition would not divert important strategic resources away from more important things the way that tungsten would.

>>64136300
You wouldn't make the whole bullet out of it, dumbass, just a penetrator. M995 WC-core 5.56x45 has a 52gr bullet, which is even lighter than the 55gr lead core bullet of the standard (at the same time) M193 cartridge. The density is uranium is very close to that of tungsten, there's no reason to expect that a uranium core bullet would be any heavier.

>>64136290
The US has a million tons of depleted uranium hexaflouride sitting around as a result of nuclear fuel enrichment that no one wants to pay to get rid of. DU penetrators would kill two birds with one stone, but it would probably be cheaper to simply use natural uranium.

>>64135655
kino, got more photos like this?

>>64136015
The entire NGSW program was borne out of gun industry people during the height of Afghanistan fighting cherrypicking and twisting data to manufacture a crisis about the US military being outranged by the enemy. You can tell the NGSW is a cashgrab by watching how the drumbeat for it never stopped even when the underlying justification was quietly changed- it started with screeching that US troops need longer range, then when Afghanistan started going cold it switched to screeching about enemy body armor without missing a beat.

>>64137711
It's disappointing that the excellent LSAT program was morphed into the monster that was NGSW, but it's even more disappointing that the literal worst competitor won.

>>64137882
That's every bidding contract

>>64136015
>>64135905
There doesn't have to be a conspiracy when they did the numbers right to be the lowest bidder. Not to mention the brass prefers to negotiate with less contractors rather than more

>>64136574
I have a similar photo.
This one's from Able Archer 83 if I remember correctly.

>>64135643 (OP)
Making the URGI + a clip-on thermal sight standard issue and increasing the combat load to 300rds would have been closer to what literally every infanteyman in Ukraine agrees is necessary for killing Russians than the Spear.

>>64135661
It had some bugs that needed to be worked out. Early adopters had problems with jamming. the reciprocating charging handle was a part of that problem. Now it is a reliable weapon.

>>64136286
I guarantee you most of the problems were due to SOCOMs dumbass requirements like a reciprocating charging handle

>>64136286
>I'm glad you like it in call of duty

Damn he basically called out everyone with this

>>64139262
>were due to SOCOMs dumbass requirements like a reciprocating charging handle
Why the hell would you want a reciprocating charging handle? Is SOCOM stupid?

>>64139262
>need to meet specific weight requirement
>USSOCOM accepts a plastic lower receiver

YUCK

>>64139286
They were concerned about jams and wanted soldiers to be able to force the bolt into battery via the charging handle.

>>64136365
NTA. My post (>>64135199) from the other thread is germane here.

Anyway, Nathaniel Fitch gamed out the issuing of tungsten bullets in a protracted peer conflict and concluded they are not viable as standard-issue. I can not find the article for the life of me but if memory serves, the US would run out of its tungsten reserves in 4 or 5 years.

>>64140173
I agree, that's why uranium core bullets are the only option.

>>64139286
I believe technically they mandated some form of forward assist. The charging handle is just the easiest way to do it.

>>64140301
Well, you can see what they ended up with

>>64135875
Why isn't the MIC that controls the gubbamint and media and world events for money straight up assassinating SIG execs for eating their lunch? How is Cohen still alive if we live under the thumb of the allmighty MIC?

the army should have gotten it right the first time and adopted 6.8SPC, be it in a hypothetical fixed Masada or a rechambered M4

>>64135643 (OP)
Maybe you should ask yourself why FN did not bid a SCAR with a 6.8mm cartridge.

>>64142333
oh no it's retarded

>>64135643 (OP)
military niggas will do anything but adopt a longer barrel AR, fine by me since golems deserve to suffer

>>64142444
They did. The HAMR is essentially an updated SCAR.

>>64142461
FN's bid was not the SCAR or HAMR.

>>64142507
It was the HAMR for the rifle and the EVOLYS for the AR.

>>64142062
>SIG isn't part of the MIC

>>64142333
>6.8SPC
I vomit

>>64142712
So the MIC just lets the new kid on the block take over?
SIG Sauer Inc isn't even the OG SIG, what kind of gentleman's agreement is this? Did they win the rock-paper-scissors tournament at the Bohemian Grove?

>>64135643 (OP)
It's an over-hyped piece of shit. A basic bitch, non-DMR AR-10 is better.