← Home ← Back to /k/

Thread 64136033

103 posts 40 images /k/
Anonymous No.64136033 >>64136041 >>64136043 >>64136050 >>64136051 >>64136057 >>64136136 >>64136624 >>64136857 >>64138602 >>64141221 >>64141734 >>64146159 >>64147906
Why did the Chinese love these things so much?
Anonymous No.64136041
>>64136033 (OP)
smal weak pls understan
Anonymous No.64136043
>>64136033 (OP)
because mass production
Anonymous No.64136050 >>64144650 >>64147115
>>64136033 (OP)
It’s easier to build 10,000 crossbows than it is to train 10,000 archers.
Anonymous No.64136051 >>64136075 >>64136075 >>64136182 >>64138602
>>64136033 (OP)
look it is another fake 'chinese artifact'
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/jul/17/jibaozhai-museum-closed-fakes-china
Anonymous No.64136057 >>64136113 >>64136182
>>64136033 (OP)
I think it's very funny that that crossbow is supposed to be 2000 years old. Do they chinese ever stop lying?
Anonymous No.64136072 >>64136182 >>64138254
Even funnier is the chinese claim to have 'invented' the crossbow given its primal form is and was used worldwide by hunter gatherers in prehistory
Anonymous No.64136075 >>64136101
>>64136051
>>64136051
Crossbows have been around since the 6th century BC, retard
Anonymous No.64136082 >>64136108 >>64136116 >>64136124 >>64136201 >>64136388 >>64136553 >>64139195
can’t have one thread mentioning China without some polnigger chimpout
Anonymous No.64136101
>>64136075
Crossbows have been around for far longer than that see bow and bird traps neatherthals were probably using them, but what has defitely not bee around is that crossbow in OPs image which purports to be a quin dynasty artifact more than 2250 years old

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/thousands-of-fake-artifacts-force-closure-of-chinese-museum-26150
Anonymous No.64136108 >>64136116 >>64138121
>>64136082
Well trained americans will be triggered by the faintest propaganda campaign of the DoD or media, amplifying it into a loud mob that will destroy any dissonance, truly the final form of a retarded ochlocracy maintaining their walled jail.
Anonymous No.64136113 >>64136118
>>64136057
I literally grabbed a random image of a crossbow that looked Chinese-y, I wasn't saying anything about that specific object
Anonymous No.64136116
>>64136082
>>64136108
Anonymous No.64136118
>>64136113
it is a fake like much of chinas heritage post mao
Anonymous No.64136124
>>64136082
You have to make a non-polniggger chink thread first, one that hasn't already been created multiple times with the obvious intent to fuel chink wankery like this one has been. I know, challenge impossible, we'll get them next time.
Anonymous No.64136136 >>64136170 >>64136176
>>64136033 (OP)
Because it's kino. It has a sighting system, and since it used a full sized bow it could shoot full sized arrows while also being able to shot shorter bolts (broken arrows)
Anonymous No.64136158 >>64136477
One of the most hilarious things about the ridiculous terracotta warriors hoax is that they claimed to have recovered a strung crossbow which was supposed to be 2000+ years old. The teracoota warriors dig is the greatest example of a national goverment deliberately falsfying history ever. A huge scam.
Anonymous No.64136170 >>64136477 >>64147906
>>64136136
it's fake and created in the late 60s/70s as part of the terracotta warrios fraud. The Chiense barred any obsevation or invesitagtion by iternational archeologists at the time by the way. Local Chinese families are quite open about the fact the whole thing was a scam set up by the CCP
Anonymous No.64136172 >>64136179
I don't usually come on /k/, is China a trigger word for your Eglinbots or something?
Anonymous No.64136176 >>64136194
>>64136136
implessive waow chyna technology
Anonymous No.64136179 >>64136189 >>64136266 >>64146166
>>64136172
this you?
Anonymous No.64136182 >>64136214
>>64136051
>>64136072
>>64136057
So the Taiwanese are lying about it too?: >>64132369
Anonymous No.64136189 >>64136195
>>64136179
There are no geopolitical stakes to the question of pre-modern Chinese crossbow deployment, you can go sperg out about tencent or whatever in a different thread please.
Anonymous No.64136194
>>64136176
Yes, you can find the same trigger and sighting systems in both Chinese and Taiwanese museums about the earring states and Han dynasty periods: >>64132706
Anonymous No.64136195
>>64136189
why are you acting like there haven't been 3+ threads about this shit that were just incessant shilling like any other chink thread?
Anonymous No.64136201 >>64141647
>>64136082
nu/pol/ worships chicoms wtf are you talking about?
Anonymous No.64136214 >>64136477 >>64138602
>>64136182
Thwere is no fake teracotta army or fake crossbow in that thread chang further there was no 'cultural revolution' and destruction fo all pre communnist artifacts there. the teracotta warriors are fake. Many chinese artifacts and claims are fake and its something very much associated with chinese archeology. That is beyond dispute. The Chinese also fake fossils etc etc. The bigest chinese hoax is the teracotta warrriors, but there are thousands of them..the claim to inventing the crossbow is facetious and rooted in Maos propaganda campaign about the "Four Great Inventions of Ancient China" with a mountain fake documents and artifacts and fake quotations form western sources etc etc.

The CCP is the mother and father of lying.
Anonymous No.64136266
>>64136179
I was in that thread! I said that I wanted to fuck her.
Anonymous No.64136388 >>64136438 >>64136454 >>64136501 >>64136528
>>64136082
Au contraire. The Chinese people have given the world plenty of things, and have a rich and vibrant culture. What we hate is the CCP which has erased Chinese culture and everything beautiful about it.
Anonymous No.64136438
>>64136388
So true! Chinese are a part of valuable and diverse BIPOC peoples that should be appreciated and supported against the centuries of racist white oppression!
Anonymous No.64136441
I mean, everybody loved crossbows eventually and then guns after that
Anonymous No.64136454
>>64136388
The CCP is just the latest boot on the neck of the Chinese people throughout history.
China has thousands of years of culture and has contributed heavily to weapons design found throughout Asia. Crossbows like the Zhuge Nu and all manners of swords, spears, bows, and big ass sticks.
Anonymous No.64136477 >>64136499 >>64136638 >>64138158 >>64146495 >>64148133
>>64136158
>>64136170
>>64136214
Be honest your name is david zeihan zhang? I hope you know that Japan, Korea, and Britain are all in on the crossbow hoax... and so is the rest of the world hence their presence in museums and uncontested authenticity. Also I just checked the entire board, where are the other crossbow threads? It just looks like youre here to chimp out; I get that you are getting paid for it but you dont have to pollute every thread. Silly billy weener head. Go back to your /pol/containment thread about brittle ships or something; identified storm shill. We want to discuss /k/ related kino in this thread.
.... ANYWAYS an actual contribution to the thread.
Heres what the trigger group looks like of one of those crossbows.
Anonymous No.64136499
>>64136477
implessive deflection, surely this will help you wank to chink eunuchs in peace
Anonymous No.64136501 >>64136509
>>64136388
Modern has PLA that fake and gay, slop FPS bad guy faction look vs cold war era G&C generals godless communist horde kino
Sure there's still the norks but chink pine green > ugly KPA dull brown green + the norks have stupid hats and don't have a pathological SKS obsession
Anonymous No.64136509 >>64136532 >>64144901
>>64136501
You know what I dont usually agree with this kinda talk but you are not wrong. I personally want the ccp to shed its communist veil and go for neo tang dynasty maximalism like they are doing to their cities. In xian they tore down a bunch of kruschevkas and restored the western market region to look like a cyberpunk version of the old tang dynasty western market district.
Anonymous No.64136512
Im tired of pretending the chinks are based for engaging in total war amongst themselves whenever they fight each other
Anonymous No.64136528
>>64136388
Speak for yourself. I hate them racially.
Anonymous No.64136532 >>64136579 >>64144901
>>64136509
It'd definitely be a step in the right direction but current chink muh heritage shit usually looks really tacky
Also all the current CCP twink suppression is NOT trad and goes against their spenglerian cultural soul.
Anonymous No.64136553 >>64136587
>>64136082
The best bet to convince other anons you arent a shill is to first mention Tiananmen being real, THEN you can talk about China like a normal person
Anonymous No.64136579 >>64144901
>>64136532
I agree most are tacky and inauthentic looking I hate the actual fake "ancient" towns like furong. You get a few proper reconstructions here and there usually done with the help of japanese expertise as they carried the architectural mantle while china sperged out 15 times in a row. Also tragic they will not succeed.
Anonymous No.64136587
>>64136553
NTA but it wont make a difference they go around threads even outside of this board to implessive spam. Its really sad. Anyways heres to hoping your theory works. Uighur genocide is happening in xinjiang. Free east turkestan.Taiwan is its own country. Xi jinping does look like winnie the pooh. Free tibet. Free hongkong. The tianenmen square massacre was real. Mao is a fat retard.

Also another historical photo to add to the discussion because I want to see a good thread about old weapons.
Anonymous No.64136624
>>64136033 (OP)
Easy to teach a peasant how to use it
Anonymous No.64136638 >>64138953
>>64136477
Wow. Even "handmade, ancient" Chinese parts have shitty welds. I didn't know that China had an arc welder 8 billion years ago or however old they claim to be.
Anonymous No.64136857 >>64137642 >>64146142
>>64136033 (OP)
They are great for large armies. Easy to train troops in use, economical use of ammo in that you can aim easily. They are banned in many nations to this day due to history of peasants using them to kill the kings knights.
Anonymous No.64137642 >>64138281 >>64138504
>>64136857
The English would take a lifetime to learn the longbow, whereas crossbows and eventually muskets could be used to arm peasants who could become soldiers with a few months of training.
Anonymous No.64138121
>>64136108
You wish it was Americans but China has spent decades picking fights with every other slope country in the vicinity, and thousands of years further back antagonizing their peoples. When you see anyone shitting on Chinks its obviously ESLs from India, Korea, Philippines, Thailand, etc and not anglos, because anglos just see nonwhite foreign gibberish and lose interest immediately.
Anonymous No.64138158 >>64138185 >>64138222 >>64138328 >>64138602
>>64136477
Crazy how all this technology was lost when even the Greek, Roman and Islamic world failed to get past basic one off casting of metals due to the necessity of better manufacturing processes like moderm mechanically accurate lathes which didnt exist until the 17th century to make mass produced parts work.
Anonymous No.64138185 >>64138222
>>64138158
Pre Imperial Rome people seem to care about precision, but the interest was lost and the skills to make things like pic rel too until the 1000-1200.
The "old period" from 2000 BC to 200BC - 200AD in the Mediterranean seems to had been 'decent' at retaining knowledge but that was lost after the 3rd century, there's no kind of 'inevitable progress' accumulated for centuries.
Curiously the isolation of Europe due to bad relations with the Byzantine Empire and Arabs caused a new incentive for "ersatz tech" that the early Middle Age didn't had.
Anonymous No.64138222 >>64138643
>>64138185
>>64138158
The technology was never lost in the case of the crossbows. Their relative usage dropped during the tang but it was back up by the song and ming. The qing even used repeating crossbows in the opium wars. One is in a photo of the aftermath of the battle of the taku forts. I wouldnt say rome lost interest in that kind of technology either as cicero references at least 2 more advanced orreries than the antikythera mechanism. Greece had a long tradition of this kinda gear work. By the time of eastern rome they basically truncated the machines to be more portable and reproducible. The byzantine sundial calendars were produced in quite a number which is why we see islamic scholars writing technical treastise' about them and making their own capable versions.
Anonymous No.64138254 >>64141298
>>64136072
that's a stretch
Anonymous No.64138281
>>64137642
>The English would take a lifetime to learn the longbow
There was an English saying that went something like: "to train an archer, start with his grandfather".
Anonymous No.64138328 >>64138630 >>64138853 >>64139136
>>64138158
Surprisingly simple technology can take a long time for a society to develop. And the inverse is true too. Surprisingly advanced technology can be "wasted" on mundane purposes for lack of interest and/or supporting technology.

E.g. In Britain, coke (the fuel) was only discovered in like the 1600's. And for about 100 years they just used it to make beer, inventing pale ales. But coke is a very good fuel that burns hotter and cleaner than charcoal and unlocks a ton in terms of mass production of iron and steel.

The process to make coke? Get a big pile of coal and light it on fire. The inside of the pile will have no oxygen to react with, but the high temperature will cause it to soften and liquify, then harden into a porous solid of almost pure carbon.
Anonymous No.64138504 >>64138580 >>64138822
>>64137642
To be fair archery is an excellent sport. I bet those peasant fucks had a hoot with their archery contests in between getting drafted for the invasion of France.
Anonymous No.64138580
>>64138504
>Practicing archery with your village bros on a warm summer evening while getting thoroughly drunk on a really good batch of ale
Anonymous No.64138602 >>64139005 >>64139015 >>64141299
>>64136033 (OP)
Because they're just great, way ahead of their time imo. At the time the Chinese were mostly fighting in open terrain and they developed massed fire formations similar to our napoleonic era.

They had a modern crossbow trigger group, interchangeable parts and a rear sight with multiple elevation notches. The system was not very accurate but accurate enough to hit when shooting in groups.

The fact that they used a full sized composite bow meant that they had a much higher power crossbow compared to their European counterpart.

>>64136051
In China the fakes are usually pottery, because well made fakes are indistinguishable from originals as long as there's no organic matter in the finished product. Organic materials and metals can be tested which can roughly determine when they were made, so you cannot fake them and get away with it for long. Even with pottery you still get found out, like here

>>64136214
I've never heard of the idea that all Chinese archaeology was fake until earlier this year, and suddenly it was popping up everywhere at once, not unlike South African White Genocide rhetoric, strange.

>>64138158
What do you mean "lost"? China is geographically very isolated, especially ancient China. The Chinese crossbow trigger group works with loose tolerances and was made with basic bronze melting, a technique nobody forgot.

Mass production is not a technology, it's a method.
Anonymous No.64138630
>>64138328
>But coke is a very good fuel that burns hotter and cleaner than charcoal
Perhaps it leaves less ash behind and/or soot in the chimney, but a far greater concern for smelting iron is the sulphur it leaves behind in the metal. And so its use didn't take off until refining methods to scrub that sulphur out again were well enough established.
Anonymous No.64138643 >>64138853
>>64138222
Repeating crossbows were triggerless designs and while complex were buildable by hand.
Anonymous No.64138822 >>64139003 >>64139004
>>64138504
These bows had a draw weight of over 100 pounds, some say 200 pounds, and the skeletons looked like half a popeye, there's no way in hell this was enjoyable. Even if they had leather pads to protect their fingers from the draw weight, every arrow fired would have sucked.
Anonymous No.64138853 >>64139112
>>64138643
Yeah, what I meant to imply was that even the repeating crossbow tech wasnt lost in addition to the typical bows but I understand after reading what I said that it was not conveyed particularly well at all. Oops.

>>64138328
Yeah this happened in china too with natural gas. They mined for brine deposits and got sick from gas. They realized it burned but it took them a while to put 2 and 2 together and use the conviniently placed gas as fuel for their salt boilers.
Anonymous No.64138953 >>64139112
>>64136638
Have you never seen corroded bronze before?
Anonymous No.64139003
>>64138822
I'm guessing there's a post workout euphoria for doing that much arm work plus you often practice and operate with your drinking buddies so the motivation was higher than you'd think.
Anonymous No.64139004 >>64139319
>>64138822
I searched for a source on this and its all appears to refer one book. I dont have access to it, but it appears to use terms like "skeletons recognizably affected" which does not imply that they were deformed warbeasts. Medieval people had recognizably larger mandibles from eating harder foods, the longbow shooting adaptations seem similar in scale, ie. minor.
Still, having those changes to your arms means they were indeed hardcore about archery. Men must have been quite motivated to keep at it so why? Martial culture? Harsh punishments for dissenting? Women getting hot an bothered at the sight of a strong archer?
Anonymous No.64139005
>>64138602
>I've never heard of the idea that all Chinese archaeology was fake until earlier this year, and suddenly it was popping up everywhere at once, not unlike South African White Genocide rhetoric, strange.
implessive
Anonymous No.64139015 >>64139112 >>64146439
>>64138602
>Mass production is not a technology, it's a method.
That's why your shithole uses 500 people to do the task of 5 machines.
Anonymous No.64139112 >>64141750
>>64138853
IIRC the Chinese were even the first to build high furnaces and make cast Iron, which they used to make the most basic swords.

>>64138953
You just witnessed the most intelligent "China fake" poster, who apparently cannot tell iron from Bronze and doesn't know anything about welding either.

>>64139015
Where you you think I live?
Anonymous No.64139136 >>64141307
>>64138328
Wheeled luggage postdates the atomic bomb. George Washington riding into battle wearing sunglasses and smoking a Cuban is historically plausible. Germany and Italy as nation-states postdate the USA.
Anonymous No.64139195
>>64136082
You could stop pretending like China is a state of human beings when they clearly aren't, for starters.
Anonymous No.64139319
>>64139004
There's no mystery about motivation, even in these modern times, with all the disincentives and basically no reward, the majority of men like to play pretend at war even though there's no reward for doing so. Add that to the obvious utility and status of being proficient at a weapon in medieval times.
Anonymous No.64141221
>>64136033 (OP)
Anonymous No.64141298
>>64138254
It's not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amappo
Anonymous No.64141299 >>64141313
>>64138602
>Mass production is not a technology, it's a method.
Retardation. It's an idea, which is a technology. For a comparable example, an assembly line is a method and also a technology.
Anonymous No.64141307
>>64139136
>wheeled luggage postdates the atomic bomb
Wheeled luggage was, famously, invented during the crusades retard.
Anonymous No.64141313 >>64144323 >>64146692
>>64141299
Not really, stone axes were mass produced during the stone age by having craftsmen specialise in harvesting, rough breaking and polishing and even back then they made it so efficient they could export their axes all over and turn out a profit, in a very low technology environment. They didn't even know about metal.

Think of it like Ford, cars had existed before him and they were made on demand by highly skilled craftsmen in well equipped workshops, one at a time. The technology was there, but Ford came up with a different organisation of labor to make economies of scale.

The same was true for guns too btw, they used to be made by hand and were not really standardised. The effort required to make sure they all had the same caliber, or even interchangeable parts was simply not worth it.
Anonymous No.64141647
>>64136201
ali, chang, igor and pajeet are a blight on humanity and they rule /pol/
Anonymous No.64141734
>>64136033 (OP)
bc they are retarded bugmen and can't make guns
Anonymous No.64141750
>>64139112
A shithole.
Anonymous No.64144323 >>64146094
>>64141313
You're describing the division of labor with stone axes (which is also a method and technology)
Anonymous No.64144650
>>64136050
This seems the most likely.. Just grab a peasant and give him a crossbow when you need them. At other times the crossbows store in an armory and don't need to be paid.
Anonymous No.64144901
>>64136509
>>64136532
>>64136579
Agreed. It's a step in the right direction but the they need to follow a few key rules: Don't pretend it's old or real if it's not and tone down the LEDs. It'll take several more generations to temper their barbarism but at least they can prevent their new cities from looking like budget Vegas.
Anonymous No.64146094
>>64144323
Method yes, technology no. Their tech was sticks and stones, their high tech was rope and fire, but the division of labor and the mass production is not a technology in itself.
Anonymous No.64146136
Much like the musket or plumbata the reason is probably due to the crossbow being easier to use when massed.
Imagine you had a thousand peasant retards, all armed with pikes, their tactical utility is limited, in many situations you'd get zero value out of these troops. So the theory is probably to give as many pikemen as possible some ranged utility, probably so they can face off against other masses of pikemen.

The bow is always drawn, so easy to fire volleys. if you archers are running forward, firing, running back to reload, there's a strong case for reducing the time needed to fire the weapon, rather than the time needed to load the weapon. In face-off situations, the number of crossbowmen would trump the range of bowmen, because at volley range neither archers could really target each other individually so the bowman not having to run so far forward wouldn't have mattered much.

Another issue is the time needed to season bows. bow wood needs to be very supple and that means a long and labor intensive curing process. crossbows have shorter, thicker arms and require far less flex so are far easier to manufacture. And minmax, a shitty crossbow performs better than a shitty bow, because of overall poundage.
It was also far easier to make short bolts than it was to fletch arrows.

Chat GPT sumation:
Crossbow was better as an auxiliary weapon because poor quality crossbows were still effective and any pike-tard could pick on up and shoot it, even if the pike-tard couldn't reload it.
Anonymous No.64146142
>>64136857
>They are banned in many nations to this day due to history of peasants using them to kill the kings knights.
Anonymous No.64146159
>>64136033 (OP)
Same reason Europe did, a lot less training.
Anonymous No.64146166 >>64146205
>>64136179
You faggots kvetch so hard and make it so obvious. Low iq behavior
Anonymous No.64146205
>>64146166
good morning saar
Anonymous No.64146439 >>64146923 >>64148601
>>64139015
You are confused Pablo. Here you have fully automated Chinese ports for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99sTFSYwNE0
Anonymous No.64146495
>>64136477
>zeihan
Lmao that guy really lives rent free in bugman braincases
Anonymous No.64146692 >>64147929 >>64147947
>>64141313
would those guys really have worn those massive hats, indoors, while working?
not only is it rude, it seems like an accident waiting to happen
Anonymous No.64146923 >>64147143
>>64146439
Ironic that the dock worker chimpout in the US a while ago was because we were trying to implement this shit and the wagies didn't like it
Anonymous No.64147115 >>64147663 >>64147706 >>64147929
>>64136050
Why would you use bow over crossbow anyway?
in Army situation
Anonymous No.64147143
>>64146923
we were very upset about our lagging behind, chang
Anonymous No.64147663 >>64147698
>>64147115
Nearly everybody switched to crossbows after it became easy to mass produce.
Only the english kept the longbows as they became a tradition of theirs to raise their kids as soon as they could pull a bow.
Anonymous No.64147698
>>64147663
it's even sillier than that: Richard I of England was actually such a big fan of crossbows he introduced their use in several regions of France he ruled over after Normans brought them to England. Yet the bongs decided to latch their national myth on the peasant levys relevant only during a war they lost instead.
Anonymous No.64147706
>>64147115
Bows have a better rate of fire
Anonymous No.64147906
>>64136033 (OP)
Because mass use of crossbows was the epitome of rich empire's warfare at the time. You don't need the greatest soldiers, you don't need the greatest army leaders, you just need an absolutely humongous population, manufacturing and logistics base and then bury the enemy under a mountain of bolts. Also it's really good for fucking with horse nomad armies, aka some of the most prolific enemies the Chinese fought.

>>64136170
>it's fake
Prove it.
Anonymous No.64147929 >>64147947
>>64147115
If you have the required 15 years of weekly training you carry a lighter and cheaper weapon, which is easier to maintain and shoots faster.

Also since the bow on a crossbow is held horizontally, it take up a lot of space. In Europe we used much smaller steel bow that had enormous power to compensate for their short draw. In China they kept the regular sized bows.

>>64146692
The machinery is hand operated which makes it very safe. I haven't machined bronze but if it's anything like brass the chips will fly everywhere, so the hats may help.
Anonymous No.64147947 >>64147962 >>64148598
>>64147929
Steels bows are much easier to manufacture, even with medieval metallurgy, but shoot a lot slower due to the weight of the steel slowing it down.
>>64146692
Probably a cold, drafty and completely unheated building.
Anonymous No.64147962
>>64147947
>Probably a cold, drafty and completely unheated building.
It was English so yes. Partial heating from the foundry next door though.
Anonymous No.64148133 >>64148598
>>64136477
Pretty obvious its same sperg that shits up every China thread, there are multiple crossbow triggers from different time periods everything is well documentated.
Anonymous No.64148598 >>64148611
>>64147947
Not at all, you can fell and cleave a piece of ash into dozens of bow staves in an afternoon. It only takes a couple of hours to complete a bow too, only the very best European bows take longer and the reason is simply that you need to find a well suited piece of yew which is rare.

Keep in mind that at the time all materials were made by hand, and the bow needs elasticity so it has to be steel. That represents dozens of hours just to smelt the material and refine it by hand, not to mention the cost in coal, the forging or all the rest of the hardware.

>>64148133
I'm not even sure it's a person, just like the South Africa situation I just kept seeing the same lame arguments pop up everywhere at once then suddenly vanish.

Oh and the clumsy race baiting too.
Anonymous No.64148601
>>64146439
Implessive for a country that fakes a lot and relies on food imports.
Anonymous No.64148611
>>64148598
>leddit spacing
>seething about the South African situation
Fuck off leftoid.