Thread 64136735

If you were to be sent back to February 2022 to take charge of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, what would /k/ have done differently?
Personally I'd have only two axis of advance. The first and main push would be the Kiev front with 75 BTGs coming from Belarus and the second in Donbass with the remaining 25 BTGs to keep the Ukrainian forces fixed there. I wouldn't have bothered with Kharkov, Odessa or the Crimean land bridge since with Kiev under control the war would be won.
This way, all the logistics and command problems that the Russians had during the start of the invasion would be minimised since they can't coordinate so many fronts at the same time.

>>64136735 (OP)
>what would /k/ have done differently?
not invade

>>64136735 (OP)
I would not invade. NATO was on its way out

Not invade

>>64136735 (OP)
mobilize twice as many troops first of all, second thing would be making sure the supply lines are working like clockwork to avoid a 60km long column of vehicles stuck because they have no fuel and drained batteries, and troops have no food.
also probably avoid smashing a good chunk of my troops into prepared defenses in donbass, just hold position there while i push for odessa.
day 1 amphibious landing in odessa, relay back and ferry as many troops as possible there before the ukies start plinking my ships.
finally avoid the fight in mariupol, just cut them off and starve them out instead of losing thousands of men and razing azovstal in the process, which is what ukrainians also did during the summer counteroffensive, bypassing all the towns and settlements and just cutting off russian supply lines.

the fact that russia failed in this invasion with all the advantages they had is crazy, this war should've been over by march 2022

>>64136735 (OP)
I would read Sun Tzu and realize that the best option is to not invade.

>>64136754
Retard

>Do anything differently
>"why bother we're gonna win in 2 weeks tops lol"
>nothing changes

>>64136764
It was a couple of hours according to Russian propagandists. It only got stretched to 2 weeks because the advance stalled due to russians getting BTFO with helis shot down and tanks blown to bits even before they ran out of fuel

>hour players thinking they can fight wars
I think autists should be sent to the front

>>64136754
>mobilize twice as many troops first of all,
Ha ha ha
>second thing would be making sure the supply lines are working like clockwork
Hee hee hee
Nigga forgot he supposed to be ru*sia, not US

>>64136777
He plays hoi4. He knows what he's talking about

>>64136735 (OP)
>If you were to be sent back to February 2022 to take charge of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, what would /k/ have done differently?
Not bothered with anything besides the southeastern land corridor, and start fortifying it very early on (I'd assign baldhead whatshisface who ordered the fortifications to be in charge of the whole thing from the start). Don't give Ukraine the early propaganda wins of the failed attack on Kyiv and the early (massive) territorial regains in their massive counterattacks against improperly-staffed BTGs. Focus everything on the southeast and lock it down. Present a "fait accomplis" to the west of just taking those areas and promptly offer peace, suggest we have no problem with Ukraine joining NATO and EU if they recognize those territories as ours but that if the war continues we will push and take more. At that point, without the whole clown show in OTL, our bluff may be taken seriously.

This might lead to Germany and France shrugging and agreeing since they're still on the oil at that point plus there's no feeling of "Ukraine is likely to sweep out the rest of the Russians shortly" which is, IMO, what spurred a lot of the initial aid. It would also preserve Russia's international image of "world's second army."

Basically, want to avoid the absolute disasters around Kyiv and Kharkiv. If we don't get the peace treaty then we try to steer it towards a frozen conflict; no attacks on cities, and we don't try to push; if they attack our areas they face our fortifications and take a lot of losses, if they don't attack then we don't attack - let that status quo play out for a few years and eventually it just becomes the new normal. Be sparing with nuke threats - don't use them until the conflict's frozen, then suggest that any reopening of the conflict on Ukraine's part would see us use nuclear weapons defensively.

>>64136795
What about the objective of stopping Ukraine from joining EU and NATO?

>>64136735 (OP)
When I had the opportunity overthrow Putin and become the new Tzar to not snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

>>64136797
I was rooting for him. What the fuck happened? Putin fled Moscow and it was literally his for the taking. He could have taken it and ended the war.

>>64136796
I wouldn't bother with that objective. See:
>suggest we have no problem with Ukraine joining NATO and EU if they recognize those territories as ours but that if the war continues we will push and take more
We can just lay off for 10-20 years and let NATO loosen / fall apart and grab more Ukraine later. You can't get greedy.

Well apparently all Russia really wanted was Donbass and Luhansk and everything else was a feint, so maybe just concentrate on taking those areas.

>>64136763
nigger

>>64136777
>Nigga forgot he supposed to be ru*sia, not US
yea, it's a fictional scenario, the fact we're having this discussion is because russia was too retarded to get it right in the first place.

>>64136778
why are you so butthurt?

>>64136796
Ukraine wasn't on the path to either of those institutions without major reforms. You could just work to get a Russian puppet government in power again which would happen well before EU or NATO membership was on the cards. Russia chimping out repeatedly over Ukraine being a good little slave state and what pushes them to face the EU and caused the 2014 protests.

I wouldn't invade a single town to them. I would listen to what they have to say and that's what no one did

>>64136735 (OP)
>If you were to be sent back to February 2022 to take charge of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, what would /k/ have done differently?
What happend in 2022 was meant to be a fast thing, shock them into a peace deal which almost happend if Boris and the West had not interrupted it.
If I knew beforehand this fast style would not have worked I'd not even try to go to Kiev, just concentrate on the East and start attrition warfare sooner.
The army right now is almost all volunteers which asks the question if you start mobalizing from the beginning like "Strelkov" kept saying would this have been better.
I don't really know, the morale would probably be worse and it would damage the economy, Russia's economy has been doing fine and the main reason is probably because normal life is continuing on this volunteer system.

>>64136797
Prigozhin was a retard.
>According to a senior U.S. Department of Defense official, U.S. intelligence agencies monitored the defection of large numbers of Russian soldiers from their military commanders, who then joined the Wagner movement. The official further stated that the operations carried out by Wagner were widely supported by soldiers and officers deployed inside Ukraine as well as in Russian territory and bases near the Ukrainian border.
Instead of advancing into Moscow slowly like a retard, he should have broadcasted far and wide about his desire to end the war and restore democracy in Russia. He would have won immediately the support of the people who already love him.

>>64136830
He should have gone straight to the Kremlin. Declare an end to the war when he took it and immediately receive NATO funding for a short civil war. Putin would have been hanged in Kyiv and he would be the first truly democratically elected President of Russia. Instead he chucked out and got his plane shot down.

>>64136735 (OP)
I would not have invaded. To invade a nation of 30+ million people with an invasion force of 120.000 to capture many cities with 500,000-1,000,000 people was insanity

The whole invasion was insanity. Do you have any idea how many troops are necessary to hold down 30,000,000+ people who don't want them there?

The same madness that makes Putin think the regions he has invaded will be rusisan because trump waves a want when there are active and effective ukranians partisans fighting theroughout them and hundreds of thousands of people in the Ukraian forces who had their homes and land stolen and given to Russian scumbags in 2014.

You don;t even do this invasion unless you are 100% certain that the vast majority of the population inncluding the media and political leaders of all parties will welcome you and you need to commit not 120.000 but over a million right from the begining.

That was never going to be the case for Russia invading its neighbour Ukraine. Russian shills spent the year leading up to the invasion even denying the Ukranains were a nation or a people, flying in the face of history and even literature and linguistics for their trite ussr 2.0 muh russian 19th century empire shitting on everyone near it thug life crap. It why half a billion people want every living Russian adult dead at this atage and it may come to that yet if Russia does nto get out of Ukraine in good time, no matter how much the retard in charge of teh USA sucks putinns asshole. Eruope does not want Russia in Ukraine. Ukraine does not want Russia in Ukraine. The Rusisan poulatation needs to ask themseves if they are all winning to die for Putin because if Russia does not collapse first that's what's next. There is no winning this war for Russia and there never was. It is unnwinnable.

>>64136754
>the fact that russia failed in this invasion with all the advantages they had is crazy, this war should've been over by march 2022

Why do you think that a few hundred thousand troops could EVER have controled a hige country with a population over 30 million? It was detrranged form the start and modeled on the Putting down of teh hunarian revolution in 56 and the attack on Prague in 68. It was going in to smash civlians about. Its been beautiful to see Russian get it's ass shanded to it in a basket

>>64136844
They took crimea easy. They assumed that taking all of Ukraine would be a cake walk. Also, there is no large scale insurgency even now.

>>64136735 (OP)
Real talk:
Had Russia invaded Moldova, they would've conquered it already.

If I wanted to eke out any kind of win?

Stop at Kherson, and not even try for Kyiv. Beforehand, get independent spooks to vet the military, and get a no-nonsense report on readiness, with full first-hand inspections of units. Brief units the night before the attack. Shore in the logistical units, and have them work with front-line officers.

I would still drop the VDV into the Dnieper, for the continuity.

But seriously, I wouldn't invade, and if Hitler forced me to, arrange for the first flight to Kyiv, hand them the invasion plans and get on a bus to Warsaw.

>>64136847
They had a huge staffed military base in Crimea of course 'taking it' was easy.A lot fo good it has done them in the black sea and they won;t even get to keep it. Agent Trump wants Putin to have it but he can go piss up a rope with maga when it comes to letting Putin winn and that is what will happen not just from Europe but from Ukraine. Europe has been stalling on a shwodown with Putins agent and rightly focusing on finishinng Russia and backing Ukraine but if trumpo starts blaming Zenensky for not surrendering and startinng shit, you are going to see some pretty blunnd requests to vacate US bases in western Europe start rolling in. If America wants to fight and die with Russia againnst democracies then so be it.

>>64136856
Traitor go to the deepest depths of hell. Field marshal Haig has commanded that you march your men into enemy fortifications and any cowardice will be met with a firing squad.

>>64136835
Eh, I figure there are dimensions to that shit we will never know. Seems clear Putin had some kind of leverage on him that made him back down, maybe told him what they would do to his daughters or something.

>>64136864
Damn, that's crazy.

>>64136863
Turn on autocorrect, faggot

>>64136856
>But seriously, I wouldn't invade, and if Hitler forced me to, arrange for the first flight to Kyiv, hand them the invasion plans and get on a bus to Warsaw.
smart

>>64136865
>Cross the Rubicon
>Putin flees Moscow
>Decide to back down
He's a low iq giganigga retard.

>>64136865
>leverage
rookie mistake.
turns out pringles was a retard just like the rest of them.

>>64136867
No it is spyware, you just don't know that.

>>64136863
That would be based but won't happen, Europeon democracies are full of people who are in it for themselves, not their countries and they will not take any actions that require them to make visionary or difficult decisions. They still aren't taking the war in Ukraine seriously, its something happening 'over there'

>>64136876
Alright in turning mine off

>>64136737
This. Monke could have just waited a few years and then leisurely stroll in.

>>64136884
Wise

>>64136886
I dont know man it feels weird to ha e to correct my shit myself

>>64136806
>it's a fictional scenario
It is, but you are supposed to tackle it in a plausible way.
>ru*sia
>working supply lines
Is not a plausible scenario. Eveer.

>>64136879
You're wrong there, Putin has a goal of destoying the EU and this whether the Russian population or not want it is their lives on the line. The EU tried everythinng to build bridges with Russia from food aid in 1991 to peace through trade and that's after teh horrors of communist terrorists and threat of nukes. The Europepan nations have contributed far far more than the US in support of Ukraine as they did being on the frontline of the cold war. Putinn vsion is flooding the EU with immigrants, sponsoring populist quslings, sponsoring terroism, invading his European neighbours etc etc. The EU has brought 50 years of peace and prosperity to Europe and rebuuilt eastern Europe. It has 20 times Russias economy 2000 modern jet air craft and three times Russias population. I'n in a European nation and would be glad to fight against Russia in my nations uniform if Russia won't back down and learn its place. This goes on right to to the deaths of every man and woman in Russia if that's the way they want it because the EU is not going to step aside and betray Ukraine like America did. They know what Putin is.

The UKranian population has ittle to fear. The Russian population is facing not just defeat extermination at this stage. One wrong whisper about nukes at the wrong point and they are gone.

>>64136891
I also have damaged hands. From killing communists. Thankfully I can still kill communists but my touch typing is not so good.

>>64136905
Based. May you kill a million commies in your lifetime.

>>64136735 (OP)
>The first and main push would be the Kiev front with 75 BTGs coming from Belarus
And lose even more pidors? You do realize that that's exactly where most of them got turned into fertilizer in no time?

>>64136754
>mobilize twice as many troops first of all, second thing would be making sure the supply lines are working like clockwork
1. You're trying to put out a fire with gasoline, faggot. The more troops you use, the more fucked the logistics become.
2. There's no capacity to use more troops, since more troops need more gear, more transport, more fuel, more food, more everything.

>>64136735 (OP)
>Don't terrorbomb Ukraine focus on UAF facilities
>Demand Prigozhin not be a retard with Donbas
>Don't siege Kyiv take it immediately
>Zurge rush Lviv to cut off the oil
>Ally with the Tatars against the Ukrainians
>Ignore Odessa

>>64136735 (OP)
Cap the funny penis musician. If you're feeling frisky, go west/south and capture that part of the country where Ukrainians haven't built trenches in for a decade.
Dig in, sit in your shitty encirclement of entire country until they keel over and die because there's no foreign aid anymore since they're cut off and penis musician isn't there to negotiate.

>>64136795
I agree with all of this. Scrapping everything that isn't the southeastern front would save Russia from completely losing all of their legitimacy but you would still have some drawbacks. You can't use airborne or air assault maneuvers as you'll still get shot down as you have no air superiority. You basically need to just do what Russia is doing today and just spam dinky cars and maybe more assisted tank assaults considering atm Russia would still have a usable offensive tank force. A frozen conflict would be what you need and arguably it could be what Russia is steering the actual war today to as they suffer more and more losses. But the reality is none of this would have happened because the Russian commanders genuinely thought they were capable of crushing Kyiv in like a day or two with the VDV and Russian SS police shortly behind them.

Not invade.
The puccian war machine was unprepared in every way, the fact that OP even has to mention the BTG should say plenty about how dysfunctional it was.
The only thing that would've allowed stronger advance would've been additional turncoats and betrayals from the ukranian side. But if the ukrainians were to surrender en masse, that's a decision made by ukrainians, and isn't strictly a factor that puccians can control.

>>64136994
Possibly the dumbest post in the thread

>>64137102
Just retarded with lack of basic understanding

>>64136994
>Don't siege Kyiv take it immediately
>just win bro
yeah

>>64136994
I think I got a stroke while reading this.

>>64136994
Im shocked no one gets the reference lmao

>>64137102
>>64137120
>>64137156
I was referencing this shitpost, retards

>>64137173
>you have to know every shitpost in existence
first time i see it and i'm an oldfag i've been here all summer

>>64137173
This one is less retarded actually

>>64136735 (OP)
turn it around and charge for Moscow

>>64136797
yeah boy

>>64136800
>What the fuck happened?
I'm willing to bet that Putin played a De Gaulle and radioed every Wagner sub-unit and told them they would be betraying Mother Russia

>>64136865
>told him what they would do to his daughters or something.
"He that hath wife and children hath given hostages to fortune, for they are impediments to great enterprises, either of virtue or mischief."

if he was stupid enough not to secure them beforehand, he should have considered them lost.

>>64136737
NATO was on its way out, now NATO is kill. It took some swings and roundabouts but ultimately the road led exactly where monke wanted it to.

>>64137193
>K-1 bricks stacked in K-5 configuration in order to simulate protection
Shiggy diggy and all that.

>>64137194
>now NATO is kill
NATO is in its strongest state since maybe the 70s. Even the krauts with their eternal cuckoldry about muh Hitler simply went "lel 1 trillion for defense".

>>64136735 (OP)
Assuming that I'm actually trying to win and not doing the standard vatnik corrupt officer schtick:
Win conditions for Russia were the land bridge, securing the Donbas and forcing Ukrainian military and political isolation to prepare further schenigans/attacks.
To this end, decapitation strike on Kiev is out, we're going to economically and militarily undermine them.
Kharkiv is still a tempting target and the region will enable an envelopment of the Donbas from the North, so that is still a go.
Southern axis gets the investment, the airforce, the tanks, the VDV, the marines, all hands on deck to capture the coast. Odessa, Mykolaiv, Kherson. Making contact with Transnistria and securing a deep bridgehead over the Dnipro is vital.
Once the land bridge is secured follow up attacks will attempt to outflank the Donbas fortifications from the West.
Mariupol is not assaulted, to preserve the integrity of the quality units that would've been used for such, as well as Russian reputation (This and Bucha is where a lot of the western sympathy came from).
Assuming this works Russia must then goto go on the defensive across the front excepting the attempts to flank the Donbas which leaves the war raging away from the fortification belts where over time the Ukrainian position becomes untenable.
Win condition achieved, sue for peace with a Ukraine that has not had its hero moment(s) and has much less sympathy and support, worse economy and means of keeping up the fight.

>>64136800
>What the fuck happened?
1. Some of the FSB faggots knew of the plan ahead of time.
2. Some of the people whom he expected to come out with support did nothing of the sort, most likely because FSB had them by the balls;
3. In the end FSB threatened his kids (the retard didn't extract them out of russia under the guise of vacation before his march);

>>64137215
>Win conditions for Russia were the land bridge, securing the Donbas and forcing Ukrainian military and political isolation to prepare further schenigans/attacks.
You are retarded. Based on their premature victory articles and leaked attack plans the win conditions were always getting the whole country, maybe with just a sliver given to others (e.g. to Hungary and so on).

>>64137215
>>64137225
>the win conditions were always getting the whole country
This. Peter The Great 2.0 wanted to remake the USSR and "fix" the demographics by simply conquering other nations and brainwashing the younger generations into thinking they are Russians. It was never about the eastern provinces. The victory articles were published on the third day of the invasion, they legit thought it would be over by then.

>>64137173
Ok that is pretty funny and you fucking got me

>>64137225
>>64137240
I posted the article...
I'm aware that it was the plan. My understanding is that the Kiev strike was to decapitate the government so they could install a puppet regime that would agree to it. Not an outright annexation from day 1. Are they even more retarded than I thought?

>>64137240
>"fix" the demographics by simply conquering other nations and brainwashing the younger generations into thinking they are Russians
This

The goal was not rare earths, not arable land, not petroleum. It was to acquire 44 million new producing and consuming citizens. Even if the land resources were not fully exploited, due to sanctions or inefficiencies or whatever, that would have been a full 33% growth in the Russian economy overnight. A HUGE amount of instant wealth.

>>64137260
>My understanding is that the Kiev strike was to decapitate the government so they could install a puppet regime that would agree to it. Not an outright annexation from day 1. Are they even more retarded than I thought?
They had a multi-layered plan actually:
- decapitate the government using specops and drones, install a puppet regime;
- if that stumbles, use the Hostomel landing operation to actually storm the city's government district;
- if even that stumbles, then surround the city from both sides and take the city outright;

They've failed on all three.

>>64136994
Shall I post what this references to or continue savouring the infuriated ignorance

>>64137304
>ignorance
ironic

you should scroll up, is what you should do

There isn't a single thing I could do which would have meaningfully effected the chances of success. Russia's limitation was and remains it's poor organizational power, and the operation they launched was already beyond their command and logistics capability, there's nothing at all anyone could have done to fix that except to spend a decade of intensive effort to fix these shortcomings. But Putin didn't have a decade. What I would have done was create a battle plan better suited to Russia's organizational capabilities, basically what they are doing now except in a better starting position.

>>64137265
The ruling elite of Russia don't care about the demographics of Russia, they care about energy exports, specifically exports to Europe. The US was partnering with Ukraine to take over that market and cut off Russia and that was something which the elites simply couldn't accept.

>>64137265
>It was to acquire 44 million new producing and consuming citizens.
It's a bit more than just population, it's also the land and dismantling of independent Ukraine for propaganda and national mythos reasons, i.e. the existence of Ukraine, especially an independent one, is kryptonite for russia's imperial national mythos, doubly so when it has people living better than in russia - not only that erodes the bullshit foundational mythos behind the regime, but also can affect russians so that they start asking unpleasant questions. For a long time putin's regime styled itself on a couple of things:
- stop "national humiliation" (of the 1990s), yes they are full blown weimar syndrome there about the lost cold war;
- improve living standards (from the catastrophe of the 1990s) by swapping political freedoms for personal income;
- depolitization of the population, i.e. "the state doesn't ask anything of you, you don't ask anything of the state", as in a opposite of USSR, which demanded people do weird shit for a good cause and for the future, instead you can live your life normally just don't touch politics;
- and a dash of "vladimir the gatherer of the russian lands" shit, i.e. putin returns broken off pieces of the empire piece by piece, e.g. when he annexed Crimea the russian society was orgazming for a couple of years, despite the country going downhill overall;
At most russia could tolerate a puppet regime Ukraine a la Belarus 2.0, poor, fucked, living worse, less developed, with people from there going to russia for work, etc.

>>64136735 (OP)
I would coup Putin and installed some loyal puppet as a president. I would try to paint myself as a hero since I evaded potential conflict with brotherly country and got rid the world of senile Monke thus gaining support from both western countries and domestic populance alike.

>>64136994
>>Don't siege Kyiv take it immediately
That's exactly what Putin tried.

>>64137329
You are naive and trying to rationalize russian imperial bullshido through wealth shit. If money was important, they wouldn't do shit. Gazprom isn't a business, it's a political weapon. Additional pipelines russia build over the last 15 years never had any economic sense and were done to:
a) try and strangle ukies financially by denying them gas supply and money for transit;
b) make export to europe safe in case of a having to do a full blown war in ukraine;

>>64137350
You are both correct. Russian oligarchs do care about energy exports and profit. But Monke and his inner circle view that only as a tool for their big pp goal of Russia spanning from Vistula to Pacific. For what purpose you might ask. And the answer is simple. Banan.

>>64136830
>>64136835
They had his fucking family what don’t you retards understand. He had no choice.

Also no promoting democracy doesn’t work ,because then the military not only won’t support him but they will attack his forces rather than let him move on Rostov and Moscow without a fight like they did in reality

>>64136838
They wanted to go in take out the leadership, install a puppet and leave . I believe if they were competent and not Russian they could accomplished this

>>64137295
>They've failed on all three.
At least they succeeded in digging trenches in the Red Forest.

>>64137667
"there's no mention of radiation on our maps, stop bullshiting and dig"

>>64137329
>The ruling elite of Russia don't care about the demographics
The economy is built on demographics

>>64137684
1. That's why they've imported 20+ million migrants since ~2000.
2. Less than 40 million people would be enough to service hydrocarbon extraction and export, as well as the regime itself. Other people are disposable.

>>64137571
>They had his fucking family what don’t you retards understand.
then he was an even greater retard for not making sure they were safe beforehand, in addition for being a retard for taking a (real or presumed) swing at the king
>He had no choice.
Should have just told those guys on the phone "ok, you got them, nothing I can do about it. Just so we're clear: once I'm tsar I'm doing what you do to them ten-fold to you and yours"

I would do a pre-Prigozhin, without pussying out, and march on Moscow.

>>64137695
>taking a (real or presumed) swing at the king
The issue is that he thought he could take a swing a part of the regime, while officially not taking a swing at the king.

>>64136735 (OP)
>If you were to be sent back to February 2022 to take charge of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, what would /k/ have done differently?
Turn the army around and depose the retards in Moscow. Simple as.

>>64137682
>there's no mention of radiation on our maps, stop bullshiting and dig
>B-b-but it says here red rape forest?
>It's red rape in every forest, retard. Everywhere is not gay male rape.

>>64136735 (OP)
Tell the US to provide air support.

>>64136735 (OP)
I wouldn't do the same.
>try to end the war quickly by rushing to Kiev capture as much land as possible
>if it fails, go into attrition mode and shorten the frontline while holding land and keeping the pressure on Ukraine
anything else would result in devastating and unsustainable casualties, where no invading would've been the better option

>>64138060
*would do the same

>>64136735 (OP)
Put him in charge, and let him finish what he started.

>>64137695
>once I'm tsar I'm doing what you do to them ten-fold to you and yours"
he had no outside support the coup had already failed. empty threat

>>64136737
Doesn’t matter, NATO is dead now anyways

>>64136735 (OP)
If I were Ukraine I would have not started the war in the first place

>>64136801
>We can just lay off for 10-20 years and let NATO loosen / fall apart
And when that doesn't happen?

>>64136801
>We can just lay off for 10-20 years
chief monke won't live for 20 years

Nuke em

>>64136736
This, the invasion force was sized as an occupation force, not one to go to a war.

Stall and don't even try unless you have at least 1000000 soldiers, not the measly 200000 they had back in 22.

>>64136795
If they had scaled down the invasion to better match their capabilities, it wouldn't have been such an embarrassing failure. However, the goal of the war was never about grabbing territory in eastern Ukraine.

Putin wants control over all of Ukraine. In 2022 he tried to topple the Ukrainian government, they focused on conquering territory when that failed. If Putin wanted territory, he already got it, he could end the attacks today and walk off with the donbas. However, he won't, because Putin believes that if he keeps on fighting, Ukraine might eventually collapse or be forced to accept a "deal" which leaves them unable to fend off a future attack.

He's not going to lose the territory he's already conquered, he doesn't care about throwing Russians into the meatgrinder, in his view, he got nothing to lose and time is on his side, so with Putin in power I think this would have devolved into a war of attrition even if the Russian generals weren't quite as incompetent.

Of course the best strategy would have been to not throw away Russia's future in a retarded war. Even if he succeeded in taking Kiev Russia would still have faced sanctions, brain drain, insurgents, a rearming and hostile Europe, and of course stransforming into a Chinese vassal state.

>>64137692
>Other people are disposable.
no
all economies need producers and consumers, the more the better
it's why India and China are relative economic powerhouses even if they're poor per capita - dogshit poor in the case of India

>>64138161
How would you have done it?

>>64136735 (OP)
Turned my forces around and deposed monke.

I wouldn't be able to fix the millennia old genetic memories that plague the Russoids, but I could at least try and stunt some of their worst habits. Eventually I'd die, sooner or later, but for a time there would be something we could look at as 'relative normalcy', I feel.

>>64138308
You are thinking of normal modern western economies. Russia isn't one. 75% of the economy is in the hands of the state and financed through a trickle down effect of oil and natural gas exports. Everyone else is just a parasite on that. That's not even me trolling here, that's how many in russian government believe. As the quote goes "god has blessed us with oil, we can purchase everything else" or something like that. Hence nobody cares that housing development are getting fucked, despite them being the lifeblood of the russian banking. And nobody cares that russian car industry is going down the tubes, switching to 4 day work weeks and son. Because in the grand scheme of things in the russian society those are just crumbs, glorified welfare for retards.

pro-Ukie thread is dying on /bant/
>>>/bant/23132319

>>64138432
And pro-Zigurs r dying in the trenches, so what?

>>64137194
>NATO is kill
Putin managed to pull together a crumbling alliance, convert the Baltic Sea into a NATO swimming pool, and get peacenik EU countries to rearm. Plus Poland decided to prepare for the intergalactic hyperwar and buy every weapons system on the planet.

>>64136735 (OP)
>>64136736
>>64136737
I'd conduct even more intensive military exercises all up and down the Ukrainian border, and right when the US and UK had convinced all of Europe WW3 was imminent I'd just have the troops turn around and go home. Western powers would look like warmongers, NATO would appear to be no longer of any use, King Monke would look like a crafty Bond villain pulling the world's strings, and Russia's weapon sales to thirdie countries would get a boost for striking fear into the hearts of the evil West. Plus Garasimov would still be around to give everyone hotdogs.

>>64138539
>Garasimov
*Prigozhin

Anyone know why he didn't invade in 2014 after the pro-Russia president was overthrown? The country was in chaos and he could've had a more legitimate cassus belli by claiming he was going to restore the democratically elected president back to office, then occupy the country. Monke just took crimea and let Ukraine get stronger before going back in.

>>64138628
>Why didn’t he invade
>Describe his invasion
More seriously he was hoping the little green men would nab him eastern Ukraine without needing an all out war.

>>64138432
Oh no a thread dying on a shit board on the asshole of the internet truly the fate of Ukraine is sealed. That pipeline isn't coming back by the way.

>>64136735 (OP)
1st objective, meet with Comrade Supreme Commander.
2nd objective, shoot him twice in heart once in head for giving such a retarded and unachievable command.
3rd objective, live as a hero and not a sniveling dog.
4th, if possible get buried next to wife and kids.

>>64138679
>invade
Meant full scale invasion. Why didn't he just grab everything under the guise of putting the president back in power?

What conditions prevented him from doing that in 2014, with a much more palatable cassus belli, but made him think a more forceful invasion with no justification to nab Ukraine would work in 2022?

>>64138763
russian army was always a paper tiger, it would've been stoned to death by civvies in 2014 just like it did in 2022.

>>64138628
>Anyone know why he didn't invade in 2014 after the pro-Russia president was overthrown?
They didn't have the forces. They've tried using proxy forces and glowies, got fucked and had to push in a tank army to save them from total collapse, got bloodied in the process and that was it. They had neither the detachments ready, not the soldiers, not the logistics. The 2022 invasion was an 8 year in preparation round 2.

>>64138510
Not once in the cold war were nuclear bombs this close to bursting the innards of the Petrograd and Moskali. This is all thanks to Comrade Supreme Commander wanting to set his name in some placard.

Convert all the money that would have been used for an invasion into hardcore propoganda to get Zelensky out via popular coup. NATO was dying at the time and would have been dead during Biden for his failure in Afghanistan (if timeline remained the same) if not for the Russian invasion

>>64138806
>Zelensky
when will you thirdies learn that in democracies the president is barely relevant at all

>>64138806
Zelensky was the pro-Russia compromise candidate, dude. He was already Russia's guy. That's how retarded Russia was attacking. At the start of the war he could barely even speak Ukrainian.

If he got couped he'd be replaced by someone actually anti-Russia.

>>64138806
And then what?
Do you really think Z is holding back the glorious popular reunification of the ukrainian and russian people or something? Before 2022, he would have told you his goal was to normalize relations with russia.

>>64138806
Bruh, Zelensky was considered a disappointment by most people by 2022, he would've lost the vote in 2024 guaranteed is russians didn't invade

>>64138815
>>64138825
>>64138846
>Zelensky was pro Russian!
He and Ukraine litterally had an advanced spy network which specifically listed when and where the Russian invasion would take place, which was critical to Ukraine's initial survival. He was at best appeasing Russia believing they would not invade, but was not friendly. Since the initial invasion was all about targeting and murdering Zelensky, it is safe to assume that Russia felt that he was enough of a threat to remove.

>>64138864
He was pro-russian, he was for a diplomatic solution to donbas shit, but he was brought a capitation accord to sign by russians and said "lol, lmao"

>>64138846
2022 Z was amazing in removing any shroud some people had about russians. No, don't feel like reposting how they massacred occupied town officials and raped the women and children. That is the "peace" Ukrainians are being suggested.

>>64138388
no, it applies universally no matter the type of economy
>those are just crumbs, glorified welfare
it really isn't
in all economies, people either work to create exportable goods and services, from which the state takes a cut via tariffs, duties, forex fees and taxes; or work to support those people via the internal economy, from which the state also takes a cut via tariffs, taxes etc. Virtually all state revenue comes from siphoning money from this hamster wheel of life, so to speak. The more hamsters in the wheel, the more the state siphons.

>>64138908
Just a little counterpoint, if more hamsters on the wheel is good, lower always bad.
Then africa would be winning in all metrics, they're the only continent with rising birthrates.
Sorry about going out of /k/ bounds, btw.

>>64138908
That's the point, my retarded friend, 87% of russian export revenue is from raw resources

>>64136804
The funny thing is they're gonna get them.

The even funnier thing is that this opens the gates for more landgrabs as it shows the US is unable to do anything about it.

Things are going to get spicy, wonder what's next. Taiwan is an obvious possibility.

>>64138940
I doubt it, but let's see how this develops.

>>64138940
If recent Chinese drama posters are to be assumed then maybe. If Xi is in charge than No. If anything we might be closer to seeing a russian/Chinese conflict if this Ukrainian peace ends up happening.

>>64136735 (OP)
I would fill up on gas beforehand lol

>>64138940
>The funny thing is they're gonna get them.
not gonna happen ivan, eat shit.

>>64138957
This China scaring is the dumbest shit ever. We saw fucking one YEAR force development after RU proclaimed to have stopped a military exercise. The attack was so blatant european military stocks jump in 2021 november.

China has to cross a goddamn ocean. That kinda buildup does not remain unseen out side fiction.
Tunnan just because.

>>64138935
yes; African countries would be even worse if not for their large populations
India is another fine example

>>64138936
doesn't matter, silly
governments earn (much) less from the internal economy i.e. the hamsters only making domestic goods for domestic consumption, but they still earn more than if there were NONE
the math is really very simple

>>64138970
Trump literally hinted at this already. Without Trump who the fuck will support Ukraine? The Eufags? Lmao.

>>64138936
you need hamsters in their wheels to extract, refine and export those

>>64139030
That's the point, ~40 million pidors are enough to extract and pump the oil and gas and keep regime safe, everyone else is excessive, just extra mouths to feed. And no, this isn't me trolling, this is thoughts of many people in russia.

>>64138962
Logistics are western decadence.

>>64139026
trump ate more shit than you did and that's fucking saying something

>>64139018
India hasn't got control of their eastern or western provinces. Nigeria with the highest birthrate is in complete chaos.

Now compare that to SK or JP. it's not even a competition. Just in case you go about the usual conspiracy route, then let me remind you Israels total pop is falling as well.

JP and KR just have less functional people.

Just capture kiev. It wouldn't have been that hard, they already got all the way to kiev in a week or whatever and backed out for the turkey peace talks before the bankers decided it would be more advantageous to kill off every military aged male in the country so nobody could stop blackrock from buying up the country and taking its resources afterwards

>>64139067
Kiev in a week bot. Glad to see you again.

>>64139050
Support staff in general is western homosexuality, people here write that they need 1 million army in the field, with 1:5 ratio that would mean they need 5 million of support staff, like what the fuck how do you even get that

>>64139067
>kiev in a week or whatever and backed out for the turkey peace talks
Anon, i...

>>64139097
6 Boris Johnsons personally held Zelenskyy hostage until he agreed to war!

>>64136735 (OP)
I am not the USA so I can't attempt a shock and awe campaign and hope for quick capitulation when NATO had spent the last 7 years building up an army on the doorstep. Maybe go in with 100k instead of 30k instead and maybe I could have blitzed Kiev.

>>64137194
Post NATO loses you hiv monkey

>>64139114
Child rape was your tactic since 2022. Guess people don't crumble as well as you hoped moskali scum.

>>64136769
I remember first week of war, sitting in basement with friends, downloading fucktons of data Ukrainians were posting everywhere because public googledrive was about as safe as military datalink at that point.
I remember captured russian radio transmission, some poor fucker junior officer trying to explain that his entire regiment is almost gone, commander is dead together with entire front of the column caught in ambush, everyone else is cramped on the road because they have 60 yo maps and don't know where to go, enemy artillery is very effective because they have drones that spot them live and the guy his talking to is only able to ask "what"

>this is pidor A, 6th regiment is lost
>what
>pidor B, this is pidor A, entire regiment is lost
>what casualties
>still gathering but commander with entire front is gone, enemy artillery and drones pound us, they were waiting
>sort out casualties, contact everyone and get back to me

>>64139211
You'll learn to make enemy life worse than hell soon enough. Just keep your head screwed on straight. No air support, barely any intel. Just actual war goal that matters Well to some.

>>64136736
reddit

>>64136735 (OP)
1. Commit entire VDV to the attack on Kyiv (formerly Kiev) for maximum airborne Кинo
2. Don't reinforce them, order entire 35th army to start looting chornobyl new safe containment for scrap metal
3. Go back to playing with my state sponsored belarusian twinks

>>64139211
Do you think he ever got back to them?

>>64139114
So your plan is to run out of supplies in a third of the time?

>>64139308
>1. Commit entire VDV to the attack on Kyiv (formerly Kiev) for maximum airborne Кинo
Nah, fuck everything and do Dollar Store D-Day in Odesa instead

>>64139064
>Just in case you go about the usual conspiracy route
no, that's not my style
>Japan
has different issues, mainly lack of innovation and productivity, but they would in fact benefit from having more people, especially since they have an advanced tech base
>India hasn't got control of their eastern or western provinces. Nigeria with the highest birthrate is in complete chaos.
yes, I know
but imagine them with half their population. how do you think that would improve their lot? any scheme for improvement you can think of involves them doing something different other than being jeet retards. ceteris paribus, having a bigger population is generally better

>>64136735 (OP)
Impress upon tsar monke the need for enhanced internal security in Moscow to keep internal dissent under control, establish a large reserve that can be deployed quickly wherever needed, then whe it's go time, kill monke and his entire government and take over. Work out a deal with the west ASAP and give Ukraine its land back, with agreements that allow access to the Black Sea and ironclad security agreements, disappear the donbabwe traitors and offer the FSB fucks amnesty if they swear loyalty to me and torture to death the ones who won't along with their families. The violence will be over quickly and the zigger cattle will do as they're told.

>>64137211
>>64138510
The USA have effectively left NATO and with that NATO is braindead even if it technically still exists.

>>64139695
But they didn't leave at all.

>>64136797
My understanding is that he never intended to overthrow Putin. He felt that Shoigu, Gerasimov, and the MoD were withholding resources and using Wagner as fodder. He wanted Russia to commit to the war even harder than they were.

>>64139276
>reddit would improve russia
this tells us more about how bad russia is

>>64136735 (OP)
Literally ALL Russia had to do was commit three or four battalions of VDV instead of one to the Gostomel air assault and they would have won the war early. The airfield seizure was honestly a great plan to stage an air bridge next to Kiev. There was a 144 page US army report that was published a month or so ago that stated basically this same thing. The VDV initially secured the airport but didn't have the man power or reinforcements to maintain it. BMDs are made to be parachuted, with crew inside, idk why Russia didn't parachute in some armor to back up the lightly armed VDV paratroopers. Instead they had to rely on the armored column from Belarus and that gave Ukraine too much time to prepare in Kiev.
It's basically the Slavic version of Market Garden, with the exact same mistakes made

>>64139695
Let's see you nuke UA. She's not even in NATO, let's see how this plays out for the moskali.

>>64140187
4 VDV battalions is like 400-700 airlifted troops. Dropping into a location that expected exactly that? I'm not a tactician but why would 4 or 5 more hundred landing to a readied kill zone make a difference?

>>64140244
Four VDV battalions, if fully manned, would be 1400 men.

You could also just read the report yourself instead of getting your info from 4chan

>>64140244
>anon confuses battalion size with company size
these are the people you're arguing with on /k/

>>64140244
You're not an expert indeed, because the first few hundred VDV that assaulted the airport cleared out the 300 defenders despite them having armored vehicles and heavy weapons.

>>64136838
>Russian shills spent the year leading up to the invasion even denying the Ukranains were a nation or a people, flying in the face of history and even literature and linguistics

the prototypical ukrainian is genetically indistinguishable from an ethnic russian idk how you fake that

>>64136735 (OP)
>take charge of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, what would /k/ have done differently?
mobilize literally the entire military and push 2 giant spearheads from the (on your picture) central grouping and western grouping towards kyiv and completely ignore the rest of the country
im talking it literally doesnt matter how many die in the push just ram full force to kyiv
russia failed for 3 reasons
1: they didnt take it seriously because crimea rolled over and accepted it in 2013
2: they massively overestimated how large and capable their military was, aka believed their own propaganda
3: they put ANY energy into taking any other part of ukraine other than kyiv, kyiv is all that matters, take the capital and the rest falls, no question.
they tried to do 3 first but failed because of the first 2 reasons
their day 1 invasion was fucking pathetic

Not again...

>>64138940
>US is unable
unwilling

>>64140323
Nice revisionism. The airport was defended by lightly armed TDF units composed of conscripts that were also outnumbered.

When the Ukranian army showed up the airport was retaken.

>>64140187
>>64140302
Your assumption rests on the idea that Russia would be able to airlift enough troops to take Kiev, a city of several million people, against a pissed of and armed populace. Furthermore the idea that the airfield could be shelled by conventional artillery, making the entire thing moot, apparently never came up.

>>64136822
shut the fuck up, you retarded revisionist subhuman

>>64136735 (OP)
Give everyone a gen 3 g19 and an 11.5 PSA AR then flee to my mansion in florida

>>64141383
300 BORIS JOHNONS IN KYIV
OBLAST UNTAKEABLE BLYAT

>>64139695
>The USA have effectively left NATO
Inside of zigur mind, US left NATO lol lmao even
My sides left orbit tho

>>64136970
>what would you do differently
>i'd fix their logistics so that they can support more troops and vehicles since that's the reason why their push for kiev failed, also mobilize more troops from the start to have troops ready to deploy and fill the gaps in case of counterattack
>NOOOOOO NOT LIKE THAT!!!
these threads are always so fucking retarded

>>64142099
300 die, 400 more take their places

>>64136735 (OP)
Buy all the local elections in the US and then get them to hand over Alaska and Hawaii.

Much better value for my money.

>>64136735 (OP)
I kill Boris Johnson.

>>64142173
You can't fix logistics, because there is no transport or people available for it. You can't wave your hand and have 25,000 additional trucks appear, with additional fuel carriers for them, with additional bases to load them, with additional personnel, etc. God forbid about the additional roads for them kek. That's the fuckin' point, retard, you can't fix shit which fundamentally broken for decades in a short run.

>>64139276
> reddit is largely pro-Ukraine
> this causes immense vatnik seethe
> run glavset psyop across 4chan
> muh reddit
> all the butthurt /r/the_donald refugees join in
> muh reddit
> literally just ad hom ‘reddit’ at everything
> muh reddit
> /k/nowers don’t fall for this
> muh /k/

If Rassiya is so based and trad, why is its propaganda so nihilistic? Their entire casus belli argument is predicated on logical fallacies such as ad hominems and outright fabrications.
Igor Girkin, a spiritual /k/ommando started this conflict a decade ago on behalf of Russia, and like all spergtard milshit autists he didn’t know when to keep his mouth shut and openly blabbed in an interview that the Crimea annexation only happened because his ‘little green men’ herded the Crimean legislature into the voting chamber at gunpoint and then locked them in. This simple admission shoots all your lies and bullshit misdirection about the beginning of the Donbass war in the foot, hence why your shilling will never stick here. Now go back to /pol/ and whine about /k/ like the good little pidor troll that you are.

>>64136736
This. The main reason Ukraine got so little western help in beginning because it really was 50/50 or closer with Russia. There was great risk it would simply flip. But the longer Russia continued with it's incompetent terror and nonsensical WW2 rhetoric the more they alienated Ukraine and tore up all historical ties they had.

The main point of Zelenskis campaign was peace trough cooperation with Russia. He'd gladly sign any deals Putin would've put in front of him just to end the Donbabwe situation. But that delusional manlet in Kremlin decides he'll get ousted if situation in Russia starts to normalize and puts out his December ultimatum instead.

>>64142328
>they scream “reddit” at everything
>many of them are reddit refugees
>scream at Twitter trannies ruining everything
>tons of accounts using meme arrows on Twitter
It’s always some level of projection with them.

>>64142203
It takes a few weeks to clone another

>>64142134
Right now the US would most likely not help in a case of article 5 being triggered,.
That is effectively the same as leaving NATO

>>64142806
You're actually delusional if you truly think that.

>>64143227
It is what the us leadership has communicated over the past months. Nato membership has become a partisan issue in the US

>>64142806
Is this a bot or something? No way you retards genuinely believe this

Shout out to that retarded Monke Putin for making NATO as strong as it's been since at least the 1970s though lmao

>>64143639
Thats just not true. One of Trumps biggest gripes was that NATO members weren't paying their fair share. If you look now, Trump is openly praising NATO members for the new defense spending commitments. Also, NATO membership is not as partisan as you think. Even amongst Republicans, NATO favorability is around 50/50. Of that, only a minority would actually want to pull from NATO. Just because someone is critical of it, doesn't mean they'd want to leave it.

>>64136835
>He should have gone straight to the Kremlin. Declare an end to the war when he took it
Polish defence website defence24.pl has a lengthy analysis on what troops defended Kremlin plus Moscow and they were quite substantial. Not a walk in the part at all. Plus Russian society didn't really support him and didn't want a return to the 90s warlord era

>>64136865
>Seems clear Putin had some kind of leverage on him that made him back down
Neither the Russian civilian population nor the military supported him. Moscow was strongly defended by several units.
He would lose.

https://defence24.pl/wojna-na-ukrainie-raport-specjalny-defence24/pucz-prigozyna-jaka-obrona-moskwy-kluczowe-lotnictwo-i-gwardia

>>64136903
>. The EU has brought 50 years of peace and prosperity to Europe and rebuuilt eastern Europe
EU is a corporate oligarchic tyranny.
They introduced law that forces people into debt and will make me homeless.Fuck the EU.

>>64136735 (OP)
>what would /k/ have done differently?
I would've just
done nothing

>>64139026
Trump also said he doesn't appreciate Putin talking a big game, then firing a bunch of missiles immediately afterwards, because it feels like Putin is mocking him behind his back.
Which Putin has continued to do even today.

>>64136735 (OP)
First, I would start by making a nuclear threat to Ukraine "Regime change now or nook".
Then I would detonate a nuclear device on Russian soil to demonstrate that I mean business
Then, should my demands not be met, I will start nuking Ukranian cities.

>>64144222
>detonate a nuclear device on Russian soil
based belkabro