Thread 64142853

Why did James Bond swap from a Beretta to a PPK, when the Beretta is objectively the superior weapon?

>>64142853 (OP)
This belongs on QTDDTOT

>>64142886
James Bond always deserve their own thread.

>>64142853 (OP)
This is pretty clearly explained in Dr. No

The Beretta in question was a 418 in .25 ACP, which Q argued was underpowered for serious protection. While 32 or 380 ACP aren't particularly powerful either, almost anything is better than .25 ACP.

>>64142853 (OP)
Easier to hold after having a few martinis.

>>64142853 (OP)
.25 acp is why, he shouldve switched to a beretta 81BB for a better .32 acp but idk if it existed at the time it was set

>>64142948
>>64142956
Film is because it jammed.
Book is because it got stuck in his clothes.

>>64142956
No, that wouldn't be until the 1970s. If he wanted a Beretta in 32 or 380 he would need an M1935 or an M1834, which are pretty solid but not as small or safe to carry as a PPK.

>>64142853 (OP)
>>64142894
>>>/tv/

>>64142975
M1934 was the best sidearm used in WW2

>>64142948
>>64142956
These are all irrelevant to a spy. There's three use cases for a firearm for a spy, right. The first is for assassination, walking up behind a guy and shooting him in the back of the head. The .25 will do that just fine, plus it's quieter and easier to suppress. The gun is lighter and more concealable, beating out the Walther in all those areas.
The second use case is to point at people to make them do what you want, and neither PPK or Walther is particularly large and intimidating, so both will do this equally well.
The third use case is magdumping down range as you try to cover your escape. The .25 is objectively superior because it's more controllable and the Walther has one more round in the magazine.
Anything else is unlikely, because spies aren't meant to get into gunfights. In fact getting into a gunfight is pretty much mission fail 99% of the time.
The beretta also has better build quality and accuracy than the ppk. It is objectively a superior gun for a spy to have.

>>64142980
>Talking about guns
>Not /k/
I wish turdies would leave.

>>64142853 (OP)
It looks cooler than any Beretta.
That's all the reason you need.

>>64142989
But he technically used this?

>>64143003
Nope

He should of gone with something a Desert Eagle-a real man's gun than all this pussy shit

>>64142989
It was a pretty well liked one, but I wouldn't take one over a PP or PPK. The old single action Berettas are pretty crude and don't have a very positive safety, which could be an issue if carrying without a holster. PPK is DA/SA with a decocker which I'm not a huge fan of, but it's more likely to be drop safe at least.
>>64142995
It's possible to argue in circles about the merits of a .25 vs 32 or 380 for a spy forever. Point is that Q told 007 to get a better gun even if it isn't as small as he would ordinarily like and he got a PPK.
>>64143034
Of those, only the 950 might have existed at the time and then we're still dealing with either 25 ACP or 22 Short.
>>64142995
Beretta doesn't have better build quality than an original German PP/PPK. Those Walthers are pretty damned well made.

>>64142853 (OP)
The real question is how did he screw on a suppressor without a threaded barrel?

>>64143145
Same way bad guys would thread a suppressor the size of a roll of dimes to the non threaded barrel of a 357 Magnum revolver and have it somehow fully suppress multiple shots. Movie magic.

James Bond ass slap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY4K5PtfhKA

>>64142995
you seem to know an awful lot about spies and how they use guns...

>>64143312
Just autism I'm afraid.

>>64143157
>>64143145
Q can build a bomb into stick of gum, an AR-7 (rechambered ito .25) into a briefcase, a rebreather the size of a pen that gives 4 minutes air supply, a rocket launcher in a cigarette box and a pocket sized automatic safe cracker. I think putting a threaded barrel into a PPK is well within his capabilities.

>>64143003
False
>>64143016
Yes, but the post I replied to wasn’t talking about the 418

>>64143044
At least pick a gas operated pistol that won’t jam like a desert eagle. Bond would have used something more like this. The PLR16 has the same muzzle energy as a 44 magnum so plenty of power, the barrel is already threaded for easily mounting a suppressor for doing secret agent stuff, the long sight radius will allow him to make shots more easily, and it uses common STANAG magazines and 5.56 ammunition so he won’t have resupply issues in field. In fact, it’s pretty dumb that NATO militaries aren’t using PLR16s as their new sidearm.

>>64142894
All of those movies are pure shit.

>>64143584
Funny, your mom seemed to like them enough to insist on doggy style when we watched them while fucking.

>>64143610
They're enjoyed by retards who make "ur mom" jokes.

>>64143690
Funny because your mom quite enjoyed my jokes about her when I had my hard cock shoved up to my nuts in her guts.

>>64142853 (OP)
Because this guy told him .25 ACP is for sissies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Boothroyd

>>64143584
GO BACK TO YOUR TENDIES AND MLP MARATHON. The adults are talking.

>>64143736

He wasn't wrong. .32acp > .25acp.

>>64142853 (OP)
Put a silencer on it and it looks stylish sleek and sexy as fuck.

>>64143736
>send author an um ackshually letter
>he takes your advice and puts you in the series
based

>>64142995
You forgot the fourth use case... Blowing your own brains out to avoid inevitable capture. I'd rather have the bigger bullet for that.

>>64142948
>>64142956
>>64143016
>Beretta in question was a 418 in .25 ACP
This.

>>64142975
>M1935 / M1934
Yes but as neat as those are weren't really 'concealed carry' they were mil issue holster sidearms

>>64143003
Hm difficult call.
Both Beretta, and Walther made some of the most iconic looking pistols of all time and particularly of the first half of 20th century.

He should have carried one of these though

>>64143584
Embarrassing post.

>>64142948
B-but all bullets are the same...shot placement...I bet you say stappin powah...don't shit on my 9mm...

the PPK looks better

I tried reading some of the comic books and Q felt like a /k/ shitposter giving Bond things like that RIP ammo and a S&W 500

>>64142995
Anon you are talking about realism in a series with Pussy Galore, Holly Goodhead, Oddjob & Jaws.

>>64143736
I wonder how much the change wasn't just saying .25 ACP is for faggots but that also the PPK makes a pretty good stand in for a Makarov when those weren't readily available?

>>64143584
So is your life.

>>64142853 (OP)
Read the book you fucking asshole. Its literally in the Wikipedia article. Shut up.

>>64144775
The world is not enough

>>64144765
why would that matter?

>>64142853 (OP)
>He thought of his fifteen years’ marriage to the ugly bit of metal. He remembered the times its single word had saved his life – and the times when its threat alone had been enough. He thought of the days when he had literally dressed to kill – when he had dismantled the gun and oiled it and packed the bullets carefully into the springloaded magazine and tried the action once or twice, pumping the cartridges out on to the bedspread in some hotel bedroom somewhere round the world. Then the last wipe of a dry rag and the gun into the little holster and a pause in front of the mirror to see that nothing showed. And then out of the door and on his way to the rendezvous that was to end with either darkness or light. How many times had it saved his life? How many death sentences had it signed? Bond felt unreasonably sad. How could one have such ties with an inanimate object, an ugly one at that, and, he had to admit it, with a weapon that was not in the same class as the ones chosen by the Armourer? But he had the ties and M. was going to cut them.

>M. swivelled back to face him. ‘Sorry, James,’ he said, and there was no sympathy in his voice. ‘I know how you like that bit of iron. But I’m afraid it’s got to go. Never give a weapon a second chance – any more than a man. I can’t afford to gamble with the double-0 section. They’ve got to be properly equipped. You understand that? A gun’s more important than a hand or a foot in your job.
kino scene desu

>>64142853 (OP)
Fleming didn’t really know much about guns. He had the Soviet Air Force guarding a tarmac with thompsons in From Russia With Love.

>>64144831
Fleming wasn't doing prop design for the movies, and that scene isn't even in the book at all.

>>64144838
based

>>64144843
I was talking about the book I just finished reading you fucking mongoloid retard shitskin.

>>64142989
>no hold-open
>.380 ACP
That's fine in a service pistol, provided it's the type of service pistol you give to general officers because 'they have to have something, right?' And even then, the M1908 Pocket Hammerless does everything the Beretta M1934 does, only it's better looking.
If issuing a .380 to junior officers and machine gun crews, you're doing something very wrong.

>>64144955
>If you're issuing
ftfm

>>64143044
The guy who told Fleming about the PPK suggested it as a fallback. His preference was for Bond to carry a 6" .357 Magnum revolver when concealment wasn't an issue and a .38 Airweight when it was.

>>64144974
It took ten years, but they got there in the end.

>>64144831
Various Soviet backline units (like border patrol and MPs) used lend-lease thompsons well into the 60s.

>>64142853 (OP)
>Why did James Bond swap from a Beretta to a PPK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU98uP7pXA8

>>64144948
Oops, you're right I was thinking of the scene with all the Spectre training.

>princess margarets body guard had a ppk
>it jammed

fucking retard body guard should have just had a snub pistol or big fuck off bulldog

>>64143034
those look nice, but the beretta 418 is ugly

>>64143044
Anon if you are going to make a shitpost suggestion then propose something more realistic like this piece of naval artillery?

>>64146004
This would clearly have been the better Bond gun, as it's technically not a firearm it would easier for him to smuggle it onto civilian airlines.

>>64143610
No that was camelot.

>>64143584
Did Sean Connery slapped your mother?

>>64142995
see the problem is, this argument would make sense if he was moving from a tiny gun to a duty pistol, but he was moving from a tiny gun to a very small gun, which implies that all these things were considered (by Fleming, who knew this sort of stuff from essentially being in M's role during ww2) and dismissed on the grounds that while these things are STILL GENERALLY TRUE, the .25 beretta was still inadequate to the task and the larger but still very small .32 PPK fulfilled the roles you mentioned

>>64143000
Did you not know? Anything that's not talking about ARs or gearfaggotry or ecelebs is a big no-no on nu-/k/

>>64145002
Russians and ukrainians pulled out Thompsons in the beginning of the war too

>>64144765
I believe the letters have been published if you want to look. He recommended a revolver, it was Fleming who wanted a semi-auto.

>>64142948
Didn't he even say he missed his 22?

>>64144180
I concur. Lovely little pistol, I wish SIG/Sauer had kept the cocking feature when they designed the P225 & descendants.

>>64149175
It's an extremely under-recognized pistol that deserves further mention and discussion on /k/ and elsewhere.
First handgun with a decocker
Still don't have a vintage PP but the 38H was one of the first WWII-era sidearms I sought.
Pic is one of the variants without the slide safety

>>64149175
>>64150074

>Pic is one of the variants without the slide safety

>>64143748
Adults? Ah, but the films are functionally stuffed with advertisements for products someone's mildly beer-gutted father would think is cool. The things men hoard during a mid-life crisis.
Such as, a 60 year-old classic British car which keeps up with a modern sports car. Pure fantasy of a decrepit country bereft of its industry—and of equally well-meaning, but desperate vintage men.

>>64150490
Kek

>>64142995
>>64147916
>>64143119
but more broadly would a typical 1950s western/NATO deep cover spy have carried such a handgun?
(irrespective of the Fleming novelization/fiction)
seems that at least, most spies would have carried compact/smaller semiautos or revolvers
also on the 'assassin' mission end of things, my understanding is that CIA at least was fond of .22LR pistols (High Standard H-D) Also in one of the early Bond films, 'Dr. No' iirc he had an AR-7
I don't buy the 'mag dumping' theory and most of these guys would be carrying these as backup or 'last ditch' pistols anyway, unless as in the Bond movies/stories some 'big gunfight' occurs in which case they end up wielding larger mil-spec firepower

>>64150697
If I remember, at least in the books, Bond had a large calibre hand cannon in his carvas well as his concealed lady-pistol.

>>64150708
*in his car as well as

>>64150490
It's a bit weird how turdies go out of their way to attack the UK in every post they make.

>>64150708
Found it: a Colt Army Special long-barreled .45. Bond keeps one in his Bentley’s glovebox.

>>64150727
Ruzzians especially seethe about Bongs. I think it's because they got btfo every time they crossed swords.

>>64150697
A spy (that wants more than a very short career) does not carry a gun except in the unlikely circumstance that they have a cover that requires it. James Bond is not a spy in any realistic sense, he's closer to one of the Cold War 'special operations' men the CIA had, or (thanks to Flemming's background), an OSS commando.

>>64142853 (OP)
>>64142948
>ITT: anons and tripfags learn about in-movie product placement

>>64143044
Fuck off, jew

>>64150768
See that is what I was thinking. Most actual deep cover spies wouldn't be packing heat (most of the time, and in most instances). Only when required for a particular mission, would they dig up one of the Operation Gladio stash-crates full of ordnance.
and yes perhaps the JB character isn't really a 'spy' such as that

>>64150727
>implying
How is your NHS, your railroads, and your councils doing, by the way? Oh, and your internet and civil liberties? I'm sure, just like your politicians, that AI will come around any day now to magically fix everything without demanding any actual investment or reform. And if it doesn't, you can just let the army fill in the gaps to kick the can down the road a bit further, like you did with your truck driver shortage.
Assuming, of course, your various levels of government have the time from their busy schedule of playing capture the flag against a fucking Facebook group.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c626vxyxgj6o

>>64150985
These random turdie screechings in a thread about James Bond's pistols are very weird.

>>64144180
That’s the ugliest 32 pistol I’ve ever seen and I’m aware the Dreyse 1907 exists. The only good pistol sig ever “made” was the p210, but that’s just a design they bought off the French.

>>64144955
If your junior officers and machine gun crews are fighting with their pistols then you’re doing something very wrong and the difference between a 9mm and 380 isn’t going to help them. The M1934 is the best because it’s the smallest and easiest to carry.
>reloading your duty pistol in combat
lol, WHEN? Call of Duty is a game, jackass.

>>64151303
A Colt 1908 Hammerless isn't really any bigger than an M1934. It is a pretty slick gun.

>>64151353
It’s a faggot gun thought

>>64150812
>Operation Gladio stash-crates full of ordnance.
QRD on these?

>>64151401
>Operation Gladio stash-crates full of ordnance.
>QRD on these?
CIA-backed right-wing terrorists in Italy robbing banks and blowing up train stations to own the libs, more or less.

>>64151399
What was the symbol that Italy was using to represent itself as a nation during the 1930s and 1940s again?

OH RIIIIIGHT

>>64147925
I’d rather a thousand AR and gear threads than the wave of retarded slop threads about some stupid Slav war nobody cares about we’ve been drowning under for the last few years.

>>64151285
Wrong.
and it's not a SIG.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauer_&_Sohn

>>64151511
You actually made me chuckle anon

>>64150727
Not only is the UK a superior white nation, most lesser countries cannot hold a candle to their weapons and military. Posters who talk bad about the UK are just humiliating themselves, and usually seething because they want to post disinformation narratives (see >>64150985) unopposed.

>>64145362
Wrong.

>>64143044
Only the Duke can carry the Eagle.

>>64143574
LEL KEK

>>64142989
It was certainly very solid as a compact sidearm, and I wouldn't feel naked with one, but doing gruntwork in WW2, I would much rather rock a Hi-Power, 1911A1, Vis-35, P38, or Luger, with strongest preference for the Hi-Power, offering 13+1 of 9mm Parabellum.

>>64142853 (OP)
007's Beretta was a ratty as fuck 418 which almost got him killed, moving up to a more dependable .32 which he presumably wasn't allowed to fuck with in the same way only did him favors, and he grew very comfortable with it in time.

>>64142950
True.

>>64142995
James Bond is a fantasy super spy, not a real one. Setting that aside, a PPK would still be suitable.

>>64143584
You are a Communist.

>>64144427
lmao what

Interesting video about the change

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuO34MDezzU

>>64144822
Made me shed a single tear in manly empathy.

>>64144991
That's a .44 Magnum S&W M29, mind.

>>64150768
>James Bond is not a spy in any realistic sense, he's closer to one of the Cold War 'special operations' men the CIA had, or (thanks to Flemming's background), an OSS commando.
Kinda true, but there's still spy elements like intel gathering, assassination, sabotage, receiving defectors, and so on, and he will collaborate with people from organizations like the CIA, and sometimes be directly at odds with KGB operators, so he's like an OSS Commando combined with a spy.

Nonetheless, I'm glad for the fantastical depiction, because it makes for more wild and exciting stories. You don't make 30 movies out of a guy who copies some sensitive paperwork at an office to quietly turn over to an enemy.

>>64142948
>anything is better than .25 ACP
>implying

anglos have vitriolic hatred for italians

>>64143044
in some of the books he has a mystery colt 45 in the glovebox of his car

I liked when Bronson Bond briefly had the Walter P99.

>>64156118
>Nonetheless, I'm glad for the fantastical depiction, because it makes for more wild and exciting stories. You don't make 30 movies out of a guy who copies some sensitive paperwork at an office to quietly turn over to an enemy.
John le Carré made a career of making stories that are just that

>>64158264
He also wrote a great article about how spooks go weird
https://web.archive.org/web/20190325215513/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/09/29/the-madness-of-spies

>>64157123
nobody expects the Lercker machine pistol

>>64143584
Stupid shit zoomer. You probably watch chaterbate, gay porn, and these nu-cartoon abominations all day long.

>>64154019
https://youtu.be/gvBci9LU7Ek

>>64151520
Did something else blow up?

>>64142853 (OP)
Because it's like a brick though a plate glass window.

>>64142853 (OP)
Because of this proto-/k/ turbo autist. Although in the video below he says he would prefer Bond to use a revolver for the sake of stopping power.
>>64155979

>>64158136
>a mystery colt 45 in the glovebox
How is it considered a mystery gun? Bond was a WWII veteran in the books, so it was obviously a 1911 that he used during the war.

>>64160152
Because it's really not clear by the words used, it doesn't specify and it could just as well be a 1911 in .45 Auto (which OSS did use some), as it could be a revolver in .45 Long Colt.

>>64160169
There were what, 7+ million 1911A1s produced by 1946, it was a ubiquitous pistol in the English-speaking world during 1950s

>>64160152
Didn't the British use Hi-power?

>>64163085
There also weren't any real options for getting one with a longer barrel or slide at the time.

>>64158136
>>64160152
>He felt under the dashboard and from a concealed holster took out a long-barrelled Colt Army Special .45 and laid it on the seat beside him. (Casino Royale)
>He reached under the dashboard and from its concealed holster drew out the long-barrelled .45 Colt Army Special and laid it on the seat beside him. (Moonraker)
it's not really ambiguous imo, it just reads as him getting the caliber wrong

>>64163655
That or Q made up a custom job for him.

>>64163655
Could he be confusing it with something like a Colt New Service? That'd be a DA/SA hand-ejector revolver which was made in calibers like .45 'Long' Colt
Later you would have the M1917 pattern, where both Colt and Smith & Wesson adapted their commercial large frame revolvers for .45 Auto (and clips), to fill gaps in military sidearm procurement (not enough 1911s fast enough). I could imagine some of those making it across the ocean and staying in Britain, maybe or maybe not converted to one of the British large bore revolver cartridges like .455 Webley or .455 Eley

Flemming was not much of a gun guy, and I could see it being the kind of error he'd make, and the moniker of .45 'Long' Colt came about because normalfags not much into guns needed a clearer differentiation between the .45 Colt revolver cartridge and the Colt 1911 in .45 caliber, which sometimes get referred to as a ".45 Colt"

Also, man you guys, I haven't watched the 007 movies in so damn long, really, haven't had much time to watch movies at all, I'm missing it.

>>64143584
Goldeneye alone is better than almost every action movie made in the past 20 years.

>>64163950
Goldeneye is basically on the level of Die Hard, it's such a fucking well executed action movie.

>>64163949
OR Q, the literal genius MI6 keeps on the staff built a custom job for James Bond.

>>64163953
Yeah and it also suckered me so hard because every Bond movie I've seen since then fucking sucked in comparison. Fucking ice palace and super sunbeams and shit. Casino Royal had the poker scene which was great but that was about it.
And hell don't even get me started on the opening, Goldeneyes title sequence alone was insane, I could watch that shit ten times in a row and have more fun than with all the other Brosnan movies.

Maybe I should just watch the old ones in order... I have the entire series twice on original discs, the remastered one in the attaché briefcase and the very first release that spelled out a giant 007 logo on the spines.

>>64151285
>That’s the ugliest 32 pistol I’ve ever seen
Now you've seen the Webley self-loader, Glock's great-grandad.

>>64163949
>.455 Webley or .455 Eley
Literally the same thing anon, pretty much goes for .476 Enfield as well. Hell, I'm almost sure Brit revolver cartridges were reverse-compatible all the way back to .450 Adams.
Fleming not being a gun guy, when he says Colt he means "one of those revolvers that doesn't do the top break thing" and when he says ".45" he means "the bullets I used for target practice in WW2".

>>64163962
Brosnan's movies were lackluster after Goldeneye. Goldeneye was originally written for Timothy Dalton (who shares Roger Moore's spot as my favorite 007), and that may have a lot to do with it.

>>64151285
How the fuck is the 38H ugly? It's sleek and compact, everything a .32 should be.

>>64163959
Q wasn't a character in the fleming books.

>>64163613
Never saw the full context quote until post immediately below (You)rs, based on which obviously it's a Colt revolver.

>>64163655
>>64163949
There's several other .45 Colts in British service in both World Wars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_New_Service
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_revolver

That Bond keeps a Colt revolver in some .45 cartridge in his glove box is as good as we're gonna get, I think.

>>64142853 (OP)
Wut?

The whole point is Bond isn't a spy or extraterritorial policing agent. He's an assassin whose schtick is he's so obviously an assassin who stinks of cop he must really be a mildly self-delusional otherwise harmless spy or cop.

Thus in 'Spy Who Loved Me' he tells the mafiosi he's police. He isn't police. He has already decided they will never see another sunset. In 'Goldfinger' he says he's an agent. He isn't there to fine him and collect back taxes. He isn't on missions to put handcuffs on bad guys or steal the secret plans. He's there to kill someone and GTFO. He stops the nuclear bomb or saves Fort Knox or rescues the girl and the kid's kitty cat stuck in the tree on the side, that's swell.--but he's there to kill.

The gun is thus only so relevant. He'll beat your brains out with it if he has to. M may say go here or there and look around and not get into trouble, but Bond knows what his real mission is. His mission is make somebody completely, undeniably, and certifiably dead.

dumb frogposter

>>64142853 (OP)
The gun is thus only so relevant. He'll beat your brains out with it if he has to
THIS

>>64166943
dude thought he was dropping bombs with this one

>>64166943
That’s obvious, and I fail to see how it invalidates OP’s question.

>>64166963
>>64167016
>>64167050
This.

Because Fleming carried a PPK and wore a Rolex Explorer.

>>64165066
>38H
checked, it's the perfect .32 w/ enclosed hammer, decocker