Thread 64144825

WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON THE KABAR 1217 USMC COMBAT KNIFE?

>>64144825 (OP)
sharp

The point should be in the center.

I've owned two kabars.
on both of them, the blades weren't straight, and both bent at the hilt under heavy use.
those and my early experiences with CRKT as a teenager are the reason I am very picky about knife design and materials used.

>>64144825 (OP)
Feels nice in the hand

>>64144825 (OP)
KILLED DEM GOOKS GREAT IN DUBYA-DUBYA DEUCE AND AGAIN IN NAM, MUCH BETTER DAN DAT SISSY MATTELL TOY DET ISSUED ME IN THE MUHREENS. SEMPER FI, GOBLESS.

-Pvt. 3rd Class Joseph "Bubba-Joe" Buttfinger
-USMC Ret. 1978-2009
-WTS 1989 Chevrolet Corvette, desirable rare sun-baked yellow, 209k mi, ran when parked, wife put her foot down and WANTS IT GONE asking $56,000 no low ballers I know what I got... heheheh

>>64144825 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYbEf-JKZnA
It's really dangerous and you have to respect it like a lightsaber. I sliced open my hand really bad on one.
Sharpen at 20 degrees per side.
It's a weapon of war.

Cheap and gay

>>64145020
It's a fighting / utility knife, so it's best used in combat or something you would use a pocketknife for. A Fairbairn-Sykes should only be used for combat. For heavy use, it's best to use a full tang bushcraft type knife.

Beautiful

>>64145164
>It's a fighting / utility knife, so it's best used in combat or something you would use a pocketknife for
It's best used for neither because it sucks at both. Its design isn't some functional compromise, it's just bad.

>>64144825 (OP)
Mediocre at best. It was okay when it was first introduced, it's awful in current year.

>>64145206
>Its design isn't some functional compromise
It is though. Soldiers complained that they couldn't use their Fairbairn-Sykes' and trench daggers for utility tasks, so the Ka-Bar was made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI3z23y2028
I'm surprised how much abuse it took in this video.
The human body is softer and squishier than wood.

>>64145249
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx2xmGfsLNo
Which would you rather have?

>>64145072
Thank you.

>>64145274
For combat? A Kabar. For woods stuff? A Garberg. Although that seems like a very nice knife. I don't even know if it's available in the US.
A guard and 7 inch blade is nice to have.

>>64144825 (OP)
Ka-Bars suck unless they're the Cold Steel SF

>>64145336
>For combat? A Kabar
bad choice
>For woods stuff? A Garberg
Even worse choice god that's the worst knife Mora makes. I hate it so much.
>I don't even know if it's available in the US.
It is.

>>64145366
>god that's the worst knife Mora makes. I hate it so much.
explain.

>>64144825 (OP)
show tang

>>64145366
The Mora Garberg is not generally considered the worst knife Mora makes. It's actually one of their higher-end, more robust models. While it's more expensive than some other Mora knives, its full tang construction and thicker blade make it a durable choice for demanding tasks like batoning. Some users find it a bit heavy or prefer the smaller size of other models, but it's not known for being a bad knife, according to some outdoor knife reviewers.

>>64145388
It ruins everything that is good about the Mora.
>Cheap
Now it's like $100. For what is basically the same blade as in a Mora HD, the blank is just cut slightly differently. Same steel, same thickness. They've managed to sell a $15 knife for $70, it's absurd.
>sheathe
Is fucking retarded. No simple sheathe with carefree retention that just works, now shit is loose as hell or you deal with the version with a button you have to unclasp. Ass. And the worst part is it has a belt loop instead of the clip. The mora sheathe's belt clip is the best part about the knife, being able to clip it on or off at will.
>handle
Is slippery as fuck when wet and less comfortable than the standard mora grip.

AND THE ABSOLUTE WORST PART? The fucking dogshit secondary bevel. Who asked for this.
>>64145397
I don't care about your chatgpt reply, the knife sucks ass.

>>64145416
All Moras have a secondary bevel except for the "Scandi Grind Zero" carving models.

>>64145428
They have a tiny microbevel that's barely there. That's very normal on scandi grind knives.

The bevel on the garberg is much more noticeable and pronounced, and has an effect on slicing. It's not just because the blade is thicker than the cheap moras, the companion HD is the same thickness, does not have this issue.

Anyway if you have a garberg and like it, that's great. I have one and don't. Wish I saved the money, or bought like five more standard moras instead.

>>64144825 (OP)
Carried one in the military. Still have one I carry hunting and fishing. Ive read a lot of negative stuff about them. Personally mine always held up. Used them pretty hard. Id recommended one to anyone who isn't retarded.

It's a good combat knife. The barrel grip is perfect for aggressive thrusts and the gaurd is just big enough to provide adequate hand protection both offensively and defensively without adding significant weight or bulk. The blade length is right in the Goldilocks zone to fully penetrate vital organs and slice deeply under worst case conditions while still being easily carried and concealed in a variety of positions, and not being awkward for utility work. The stock thickness and central ridge provide good rigidity without compromising cutting geometry too much. The clip point/swedge is deep enough to put the tip close enough to the centerline without creating a drag spot that would need to be sharpened. The 360 degree pommel swell provides good lower security, allows for a 3/4 grip for more slashing power without requiring a lanyard, allows for power assist techniques with the offhand, and hammering capability. The steel is just what you want in a large combat/survival fixed blade, impact resistant carbon steel that is easily sharpened with any kind of abrasive you can get your hands on, and can have major damage worked out with a file.

It would be a nearly perfect knife if it weren't for the narrow tang construction, which creates a stress riser that can break when used for certain applications or subjected to repeated heavy impact. The Cold Steel Leatherneck is an extremely similar design with a much better tang, but unfortunately uses D2 steel which is one of the worst blade steel choices for this type of knife.

>>64145474
Moras have the worst edge geometry of any knife you can buy. I fucking hate them with a passion.

>>64144825 (OP)
It's a piece of shit

>>64144825 (OP)
I'd have preferred the 225Q or PAL RH-36 to survive, but whatever.

>>64148203
They are not perfect, but they're cheap as fuck, and the steel is super easy to work with. That's what makes them great. And that's most of why I hate the garberg, it loses the 'cheap as fuck' part of the equation. I personally love the cheap moras.

I've drilled through them and mounted them to a piece of pipe to cut shit in impossible to reach places at work. Saved me having to waste a whole bunch of time doing a confined space entry. Wouldn't do that shit in a million years with my fallknivens, a knife that's basically disposable instantly increases its utility.

>>64148200
>It would be a nearly perfect knife if it weren't for the narrow tang construction
Ding Ding Ding
Fortunately they recognized the problem.

>>64148235
There's plenty of cheap knives that don't have a fucking ten degree primary bevel. The Glock knife has an 8 degree bevel.

>>64148239
But then ruined the gaurd, and presumably the steel too. And you can't actually buy one of those.

>>64144825 (OP)
It technically can be classified as a bowie knife.
Prove me wrong. Pro tip; you can't

>>64148244
Glock knife is $35, Mora is $15.

>The Glock knife has an 8 degree bevel
What? No it doesn't. I don't even know how or why you would think that. Neither is anything close to the number you are giving. That is significantly thinner than a razor.

>>64148249
To me a Bowie knife is defined more by it's weight and balance than by the mere presence of a clip point. A Bowie knife balances above the gaurd and has blade "presence" reminiscent of a light sword or hatchet. It's primary cutting attack relies on momentum. It's essentially a short sword compressed into the OAL of a dagger. Most knives like this weigh at least 16 ounces, with 20 being more common.

The Kabar at 10 ounces is an extremely lightweight knife which balances below the index finger and handles like a hunting or utility knife. It's primary attack is to stab, and to cut with direct application of pressure rather than momentum, much like a kitchen knife. When swung, the energy stays in the hand and the blade cannot cut deeply with this technique, so swinging the knife is performed merely to intercept an opponent's hand, and then perform a secondary pressure slice. It's a completely different form and attack strategy from a proper Bowie knife.

>>64144825 (OP)
I've had one for 13 years. To be fair I only put hard use on it the first year. When I was active duty I thought it would be really sick to wear it on my belt in the field, and it was, but i kept getting made fun of for being a boot so I stopped using it.

I keep a razor sharp edge on it today and honestly the balance, feel in hand and the length of it is really good. It was a good knife at $60USD, but I wouldn't pay what their asking for these days. The sheath is very aesthetic and nice but its basically useless, you basically gotta use the crappy polymer one for it to be functional, or something on a teklok.

It's first and foremost for killing people. It's not good at any tasks and I wouldn't use it for food prep or tindermaking. It's just for stabbing and slashing at hostile opps

>>64148257
Yes it does. I measure all of my knives with an inclinometer. The Glock 78 and 81 knives have primary bevels of 8 degrees per side. The Kabar is 6. Most full flat grind knives are 2 or 3. The basic Mora is 10, so with the Mora you're either stuck sharpening a ridiculously wide bevel, or applying a micro bevel with shitty geometry behind it.

>>64145416
Agree. I prefer the HD for all those reasons. Just buy the HD basically. The full tang is a meme for how long the blade is.

I like my kansbol a lot, really good for food prep and it can make push cuts if I want to do that for some reason

>>64148288
Oh, I misunderstood, my mistake. I misread and thought you meant the edge/secondary bevel.

So you just don't like Scandinavian grinds, or at least steep variations of it. I have to fully disagree. They carve wood like butter and are excellent at skinning and butchering too.
>so with the Mora you're either stuck sharpening a ridiculously wide bevel
It's really not a big deal. Plus, carbon steel strops like a dream, sharpening is a meme.

>>64148315
They only cut well if you maintain that singular flat bevel consistently. There's a tall order. I only carry knives with extremely narrow working bevels that I can easily maintain with field-sized sharpening stones and equipment.

>>64148328
>There's a tall order
No it's not. Here's how to keep your knives sharp:
>stop sharpening them all the time
>just strop them
>stop trying to cut rocks it doesn't work
Scandi grind is easy as fuck to sharpen when you have to. It helps that all the good Scandi knives are carbon steel. Only using small/portable stones isn't a problem.

>>64148345
If you think stropping is a viable long term strategy for keeping knives sharp then you must not cut very much stuff.

>>64148353
You need to sharpen eventually. Most knife autists oversharpen constantly. Both are true.

And a strop is easier to carry in the field than a stone. Any scrap of leather will do.

>>64148345
Every time you sharpen a scandi edge by hand, you are making the bevel more and more rounded. That means a smaller and smaller percentage of your strokes are actually contacting the edge apex with every successive sharpening job. Over time it starts taking exponentially longer to produce a properly finished edge. The way to resolve this is to sharpen a much narrower bevel, and the way to keep cutting power good is to have much thinner geometry behind that bevel. That is why ALL knives except Moras are designed this way. Moras are popular because they are cheap, and that is why people use mental gymnastics to defend their shitty geometry. At best, the Scandi grind is useful for very specialized wood carving applications that should only matter in the context of professional use.

>>64148373
I sharpen as often as needed to keep my edges up to my standards. As a professional butcher for over a decade my standards might be higher than most people's.

If a sharpening stone of some kind isn't part of your basic kit, that tells me enough about your experience level here.

>>64148382
>Over time it starts taking exponentially longer to produce a properly finished edge
diamond stone go brr
>That is why ALL knives except Moras
Except that's far from true. I just posted two knives that obviously are not Moras, yet are similar in terms of grind.
>that is why people use mental gymnastics to defend their shitty geometry
Except Mora is far from the only Scandinavian grind knife.
>At best, the Scandi grind is useful for very specialized wood carving applications
Again, that is wrong. It is ideal for any wood carving, and very good at cutting meat and hide. The lack of a pronounced secondary bevel makes it good at any kind of cutting/slicing. Really the only thing it's bad at is slicing root vegetables.
>>64148389
>If a sharpening stone of some kind isn't part of your basic kit
Who says it isn't? I just don't need to use it since stropping does the job 99% of the time.

>>64148410
>diamond stone go brr

You are rounding the edge with your hand no matter what type of abrasive you are using.

>Except that's far from true. I just posted two knives that obviously are not Moras, yet are similar in terms of grind.

Okay, then all knives except Moras and two or three other obscure Scandinavian manufacturers.

>Again, that is wrong. It is ideal for any wood carving, and very good at cutting meat and hide. The lack of a pronounced secondary bevel makes it good at any kind of cutting/slicing.

Yes, they perform very well new out of the box.

>Who says it isn't? I just don't need to use it since stropping does the job 99% of the time.

Stropping cannot outpace the damage caused by bushcraft work day in and day out for more than a week tops unless your standards are extremely low. I consider any knife that cannot shave hair to be effectively dull.

>>64148425
>You are rounding the edge with your hand no matter what type of abrasive you are using.
Yes, I am. So?
>nooo the slight convex will ruin everything!
No it won't.
>Okay, then all knives except Moras and two or three other obscure Scandinavian manufacturers
Yes, that's right, except make it dozens instead and numerous American ones now too.
>Stropping cannot outpace the damage caused by bushcraft work day in and day out for more than a week tops
If you are battening your shit every day for a week you need an axe.
>no I totally mean other buschraft like uh, I don't know!
yeah sure bud

>>64148442
Okay well enjoy using shitty edge geometry for no reason then.

>>64148461
I will, thank you

>>64148479
Literally a cold chisel

>>64148488
you're goddamn right, my chisels are cold as fuck

Thoughts on the 5.25" KA-BAR Tanto? I want to get a smaller knife like it.
I currently have a KA-BAR 1217 that i got when i was 16 and i recently acquired a second hand KA-BAR Next Generation Combat Knife (which i hear is pretty rare) from the 1990's.

>>64148551
Western tantos are useless.

>>64144825 (OP)
eh, worse than the Glock knife, at least that has a bottle opener...

>>64148603
I love the Glock knife, but the edge angle is a bit extreme and you need to sharpen it in a very particular way to get good cutting performance out of it. And it just doesn't have the width to be good for certain techniques, and it suffers in light chopping duty due to its light weight. It's best as an ultralight backup rather than a primary blade, probably the best knife you can buy for that role.

>>64148274
>To me
Didn't ask.
>It's a completely different form and attack strategy from a proper Bowie knife.
Lmao. Knife fags are the worst.
The kabar is an American fighting knife with a clip point and a cross guards.
It's technically a bowie. I don't give a rats ass about "fOrM" or "aTtAcK sTraTeGy"

>>64148898
>>Bowie
The original Bowie didn't even have a clip point. It was a version of a butcher knife. There are literally so many different knives made with the label Bowie over the years its silly
All that said since the 1970s or so the Bowie has been the crocodile dundie style Bowie knife we all expect when someone says Bowie. And the Kabar and all the era hunting knives the kabar was based on are in fact Bowie knives.

>>64148914
What did butcher knives look like in the early 19th century?

>>64148898
You literally cannot use a Kabar knife the way you can use a Bowie knife.

>>64148914
A Bowie knife is a knife that feels very heavy above the hand and you can swing it at stuff like a hatchet. Is that dumbed down enough for you people?

>>64149132
>You literally cannot use a Kabar knife the way you can use a Bowie knife.
Yes you fucking can...
Will the kabar give you +2 heck'n damage to slash attacks? Probably not but it can be done.
The absolute state of knife fags.

>>64149160
The balance is IN your hand. You cannot put any momentum into the blade by "slashing" with it.

>>64149199
Your head is IN you ass. You absolutely can put momentum into the kabar by "slashing" with it.
It just won't be as powerful as something that's blade heavy.

>>64148239
>giant hole

>>64144825 (OP)
Doesn't stack up to the GOAT

>>64149242
It's a completely different category of weapon just as a dagger is a completely different weapon from a sword.

Significantly inferior to modern bayonets

It's not a weapon or a combat knife. It's a camping knife. Knives are arguably not weapons, and if we allow that SOME are, then this one certainly isn't.

Also this >>64145072

>>64150714
>Knives are arguably not weapons

Where does this attitude come from? I could do more damage to your body with a knife than with any handgun ever made.

>>64150552
>It's a completely different category of weapon
Yeah, small bowie and big bowie.

>>64151569
If you had any experience with these weapons you would not be classifying them as being the same. If you train with a Kabar your entire skillet becomes useless when switching to a Bowie and certain techniques can actually be dangerous such as grip transitions. When you pick up a knife that weighs 22 ounces and balances 2" above your hand it is IMMEDIATELY obvious that you will need a completely different technique to use it than a war era combat knife. They are NOT interchangeable. The are NOT different examples of the same category of weapon. You would know this if you ever held a Bowie knife in your life. One of the best in the old days was the Ontario Marine Raider but sadly the company went under recently.

>>64151569
A word for any weapon or tool should capture and reflect how it is used, not what it superficially looks like.

>>64151600
I have bowie knife and I use it for throwing. Inb4 that causes you to seethe.
>A word for any weapon or tool should capture and reflect how it is used, not what it superficially looks like
>should
Well that's not how it works woth bowie knives, princess.
Civil war confederate bowies were essentially used as machetes and short swords. Still bowie knives though. Cry about it.

>>64151684
A Bowie knife IS a short sword. That is why it is distinct from a lightweight knife which balances in the hand and which cannot generate meaningful amounts of momentum in the blade.

>>64150213
Not a knife guy-why is that? Is the Mk.2 full tang or something?

>>64144825 (OP)
I'm willing to bet any "knife guy," who has an opinion on it doesn't even have callouses on their hands.

>>64151708
>A Bowie knife IS a short sword
Nope

>>64144825 (OP)
not a fan!
t. picrel

>>64152133
In a time that a pioneer's sword bayonet is also a sword, yeah.

>>64152133
I challenge you to come up with any definition of "sword" that distinguishes itself from "knife" which is more useful than "a blade with sufficient mass and high balance to generate enough momentum with swinging strikes to produce effective cuts against an opponent". Even thrusting swords have this balance as a rule.

>>64152181
>>64152218
It's called a bowie knife. So it's a knife.
Simple as.
Most big bowies are too short to be considered a short sword. Again, don't give a fuck about "muh balance point"

>>64152616
Because you have no experience. I'm sure there's lots of dumb fuck noguns who don't couldn't understand why why a Keltec P32 isn't a "duty pistol". If you have to use a certain tool with a completely different set of skills and techniques than another tool you still eventually start considering them to be two different things and you will call them by different names. Only someone who has no experience with knives and edged weapon combat would call a minimalistic war era combat knife and a Bowie knife by the same name merely because of cosmetic similarities.

>>64144825 (OP)
its a run of the mill tactical knife to make boomers and movie fans coom.
IMO Tactical Knife < Tactical Survival Knife

>>64153209
Most survival knives have really bad geometry for combat, obtuse points, inadequate grip security, and no gaurd. The best combat/survival knife on the market is the Cold Steel Leatherneck. It's very similar to the Kabar, but has a much stronger tang. The downside is it uses D2 steel, which isn't as tough as lots of similarly priced options and makes you dependant upon diamond abrasives to keep is sharp.

>>64151749
It's the USN MK-2 made by Camillus, marked Ka-Bar, and it's full tang. It's useful as a hammer or a chisel. They got really pricey though so you can't even find one under $300 in good condition.

>>64152218
Swords have two edges. Sabers and backswords (including honorabry folded ones) are big knives.

>>64153735
Uh, some swords only have one edge.

>>64145164
>A Fairbairn-Sykes should only be used for combat

tee period white trash guy who throws knives at plywood and slashes at invisible bad guys in his room.

>>64153739
Those ones are big knives.

>>64153750
knives are just short swords

>>64153750
Wrong
>>While most Viking-Age swords are of the classic straight two-edged design, about 20% of those found in Norway are single-edged (Geibig XIV). These weapons cannot really be classified as long-saxes as they had orthodox sword-hilts. Single edged Viking swords were still in use at the end of the 9th C and early 10th C. Their nearest Medieval equivalents would be the Falchion and the großes Messer. An interesting weapon, the single-edged sword is worthy of study.

>>64153771
>Their nearest Medieval equivalents would be the Falchion and the großes Messer
>großes Messer
>literally g*rman for "big knife"
What an illiterate retard. It's a big knife.

>>64153850
Um, no. Its a sword. Its classified as a sword by the experts who classify swords. Its classified as a sword by the experts that trained the experts that classified it as a sword. Its classified as a sword by the men who used it and the way they used it. Its classified as a sword by the men who designed it and those who built it. Its parts are classified as sword parts, and when put together all those parts are still classified as a sword.
You, have a child's brain. Run along now child. Run along and be wrong somewhere else. You used up all the wrong in the room.

>>64153878
The experts literally compared it directly to a big knife called the "big knife" by the people who used it. The only said that they're not long seaxes, not that they aren't big knives.

>>64153907
When you have to do as much mental gymnastics as you are to try to show the thing that has been declared a thing by the experts is not the thing the experts claimed it was, you are not only wrong, you are a fucking idiot.

>>64150738
*tactically significant weapons

>>64153923
>Expert says it's the equivalent of a big knife
>Somehow this means it isn't a big knife
Who's doing the mental gymnastics here?

>>64153907
Messer has a knife hilt, shape and profile. Falchion has a sword hilt and a large knife profile blade.
The single edge viking sword has a sword hilt, sword blade profile type, sword length and is in every way a sword. Just a single edge. Even some with the same fuller as the double edge counterparts. They existed and were used at the same time. They are virtually identical aside from the aforementioned single edge...you are simply wrong. And apparently kind of soft in the head.

>>64153951
Expert said it was a sword. Closely related, most Closely related, nearest count part does not mean they are the same.
A pig is the nearest relative of the bear. Bears are not pigs.
Its a sword. Proving you wrong.

>>64153961
>Experts say it's equivalent to a grosse messer
>Anonymous says it's nothing at all like a grosse messer
Okay then, I'll just take your word for it then. Obviously the experts have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.

>>64153974
>expert
Expert on what?

>>64153974
A pig is not "equivalent to" (not my words) a bear.

>>64153975
>>nearest mideavel counterparts
>>nearest
Not the same, the closest thing that they could be compared to being SINGLE EDGE from the mideavel counterparts.
That does not make them the same. Not remotely. You aren't very bright are you?

>>64153980
A pig is the nearest living equivalent to a bear on earth. But its not a bear.

>>64153982
Even fucking better. The thing most likely a bear on earth is a seal. A fucking seal. So the nearest equivalent to a fucking bear is a god damn seal.
You are arguing that a bear is a seal. You are literally fucking retarded.

>>64153980
Literally you are retarded.

>>64153982
>It totally changes the meaning of the sentence if you change the words!
Wow, really? I had no idea. Would you like me to change around some of the words?

>>64153987
Correct. Thus, they are not equivalent.

>>64153998
no u

>>64154006
>>tard noises

>>64153062
>Because you have no experience
Studying the blade doesn't count as experience.

>>64152218
>a blade with sufficient mass and high balance to generate enough momentum with swinging strikes to produce effective cuts against an opponent
Behold! I've brought you a sword.

>>64145072
Based Boomerposter

>>64152133
yes

>>64153324
theres plenty of survival knives that have tactical features. thats why i clearly stated i would take a "tactical survival" knife over a tactical knife. tactical survival knives have guards. keep in mind i already have multiple tactical knives and survival knives so its erroneous for me.

>>64158212
>>tactical survival knives have guards
Says who. There is barely a firm definition on anything in the knife world when it comes to overall labeling. Tactical and survival being perhaps the most freely slapped on.
Pic related is probably the best definition of a tactical survival knife both by definition and who has used it professionally for what combined with original design intent.
There are however many examples of knives that fit the definition with absolutely no guards.

>>64144825 (OP)
OKC is better.

>>64144825 (OP)
pointy

>>64144825 (OP)
Not impressed. Combat knives are tools and should have wide full tangs and tough as a cold chisel. I broke the one I used on deployments opening crates which are far more abundant than throats to cut.

>>64145020
^This too. Ancient standards for knives are obsolete.

>>64158494
I bought an SRK and was thoroughly disappointed in it.
It is unironically designed for obese people

>>64148560
Yep, probably only folded 200-500x times. Disgraceful

>>64153384
I thought I had decent understanding of US Navy knives from WWII. So this MK-2 knife is manufactured by Camilus, but also marked Kabar? Is that right?

>>64153384
Sounds more like one of the “Q” quartermaster knives. Same guy that’s wants to know more about the Camillus made mk-2 knives that are marked Kabar.

>>64149114
Butcher knives and the original Bowie made for Jim were what one would call a basic "knife". The classic Bowie shape we know now didn't get applied the Bowie name until much later. Pretty much the American pattern knife, or the western knife of a clip point, gaurd, fixed blade sheath knife are all Bowies, or Bowie more accurately is a reflection of them.
Either way Bowie at this point is the name applied to the distinct American pattern fixed blade.