Thread 64147819

How come homemade firearms arent popular with the criminal underworld? Like doesnt it make sense to just use the disposable pig iron yet automatic spray n pray pieces instead of smuggling or stealing weapons and running a risk of getting caught?

>>64147819 (OP)
>How come homemade firearms arent popular with the criminal underworld?
They're only not popular when better firearms are available, which is the case more often than not.

>>64147819 (OP)
Because it takes work to make guns
If criminals wanted to work they would get jobs

If you are in the criminal underworld you either have the knows of how to get in touch with smuglers or are to dumb to make a gun yourself.
In japan they had an Ak47 factory for the yakuzi

>>64147819 (OP)
Because strawman sales are so much easier and less barriers to entry?
t. Region Rat

>>64147819 (OP)
Most criminals are niggers. Niggers are stupid. Stupid people don't know how to make homemade guns.

>>64147819 (OP)
It depends where, and what you consider "homemade".

Improvised firearms have been recovered in some numbers in countries where firearms are generally hard to get. Open bolt SMGs, really crude revolvers and pipe shotguns get recovered all the time in places like Brazil, Australia, Philippines and the Balkans. In places where proper factory manufactured firearms are readily available, there is usually no reason to gamble on weird homemade garbage, but it does happen from time to time anyway.

In the United States, stolen or straw purchased firearms are common enough that there is less reason to go folding sheet metal in order to make MAC-11s but 80% and 3d printed frames are a different story. Frames are easy enough to DIY with basic equipment and everything else is parts, so no background check is necessary. Parts like the barrel or slide are much more challenging to manufacture properly than a 3d printed frames, so doing that ends up making economic and practical sense to a ghetto gunsmith. The resulting firearm is not fully home made, but because the frame is the result is largely the same. No serial number to trace, no paperwork to look up. No reason to do more than that.

>>64147819 (OP)
Because criminals have low iq.
In my country (Mexico) cartels had (or still have) a cnc shop to machine AR-15 lower receivers. The rest (uppers, barrels, bcg, etc) was smuggled from the US.
https://insightcrime.org/news/made-in-mexico-ghost-guns-find-way-to-cartels/
We also have some gunsmiths who build shitty 22lr guns, shotguns and similar guns.
>>64147826
>yakuza
No, it was for Aum Shinrikyo (apocalyptic sect)
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/10/25/aum-shinrikyo-death-cult-made-ak74-assault-rifles/

>>64147819 (OP)
If you are skilled enough to whip out actually functional firearm that does not occasionally turn into pipe bomb, you are also skilled enough to make money through legal activities.

>>64147819 (OP)
>DOOR STUCK

>>64147819 (OP)
It's easier and cheaper to steal guns/buy stolen guns/smuggle guns from another country. They don't care about getting caught if they did they wouldn't be criminals

>>64147819 (OP)
Did you know criminals are stupid and if they were machinists they would you know... machine and get taxes and health plans and fuck chicks who go to church.

>>64147819 (OP)
>How come homemade firearms arent popular with the criminal underworld?
Criminals are stupid, at least the ones doing violent crimes, i've seen a vid of one doing a robbery right in front of a bank during the pandemic and the retard didn't have a mask on, the one fucking time you could stroll into a bank masked

>>64147819 (OP)
Because weapons are abundantly available. Why make some stupid shit that might explode in your hand ?

>>64147819 (OP)
The guy making those things is taking on the exact same risk for an inferior product that takes alot of work to make.
Maybe if the cost of smuggling guns went up massively, but as of now, it just doesn't make sense.

>>64147819 (OP)
Because the hard part is the ammunition and if you can source factory ammunition then you can source factory weapons.

>>64147819 (OP)
because we have millions of guns on the black market

>>64147988
or they could just pay machinists to do it for them and pay them more to keep their mouths shut

>>64148482
It's cheaper to just buy existing shit off the black market at that point.

>>64148482
Criminals are stupid. They would extort the machinist to give them the guns for free.

>>64147819 (OP)
Not generally reliable. If you can get real guns, which most people in most countries in the world can get real guns, why would you settle for handmade ones?
There was an article about a jeweler in aus who made some really nice looking mac 11s for some biker gangs, and i'm upset they were probably destroyed. These belong in a museum

>>64148538
From what I understand it's more often something like one of the family's kids gets the money to go to a machining school, gets laid off from work when the economy inevitably sours again, and comes back home to help out the old crew because they've got fuck-all else to do. It's a constant problem with soldiers, skilled workers like machinists and chemists, etc. If there's no work for anyone, then a backyard gun shop beats the hell out of boosting cars or cooking fent.

>>64147819 (OP)
Because making a gun that will shoot a couple of bullets in an emergency is really easy. Pretty much any yahoo can do it in a weekend. Which is why you see so many of them
You can build a blowback 9mm pistol that uses a basic version of the 1911 mechanism in any garage that can service a motorbike. There's a reason they're incredibly common in the Middle East and the Pacific Islands.
Submachine guns and carbines are a bitch. Especially magazines and FCGs. It's difficult but doable to make one of something that will dump rounds until it's empty or it jams, it's a shitload harder to make 50 of them that only go off when and how you want them to and have custom mags. You need good metal for the sear and trigger, a source of decent springs, a bunch of jigs, and a much more obvious workshop. People still do it but the penalties for getting caught with one are usually much more severe, and the person doing the building is up shit crick if someone knows enough to snitch on them.

>>64148592
I think it depends on the country. For example, if you have a welding or machine shop in Mexico and the cartels need something, they simply threaten to kill you (for example, they force local welding shops to make caltrops and make their shitty technicals, but it happens to many other types of businesses). If you don't want to create something for them for free, they'll burn down your business or simply kill you.
In some areas, they kidnap university students to cook meth or fentanyl for the cartel without paying them.
Also, the children of cartel members don't go to trade schools to learn new skills; they want everything right away, thus, it’s easier for them to kidnap or threaten to kill people who can do what they want.

>>64147819 (OP)
>How come homemade firearms arent popular with the criminal underworld?
Just like I mentioned in the bank robbery thread, criminals are lazy; they are not going to go out of their way to do things that take more effort. During the "80% lowers" debate, the ATF was convinced that a bunch of felons would buy an 80% kit and make their own guns illegally, and I've only ever heard of one case where that happened. It was accessible to thousands of felons, but they didn't do it because they'd rather either not own guns or convince a friend to make a strawman purchase.

>>64147819 (OP)
>How come homemade firearms arent popular with the criminal underworld?
They are in several countries.

Criminals are mostly idiots, making chump change for high risk.

You only start getting very skilled dangerous criminals in a society that doesn't allow the intelligent to rise through legit methods.
Like oligarch ruled Russia.

>>64148592
>Blowback 9mm
>1911 mechanism
>submachine guns and carbines are a bitch
Confirmed as a retard. 1911s are not blowback, and making a 1911 style tilting barrel short recoil action is a lot harder than an open bolt smg, which is literally the simplest repeating firearm you can make, literally one step up from slambang shotties and zip guns

>>64148866
Normal criminals yes, but organized crime is a different story

>>64147819 (OP)
Not all criminal organizations operate the same.
There are some places where the line between the state and the organized crime doesn't exist, like Mexico. There you have police and military working for the cartels because there's more money in it. When that happens there's no need to use janky homemade firearms when they have access to the high quality real thing and don't fear prosecution.
And then there's places where there's a steady stream of illegal firearms available to buy. It's only in tightly regulated and closed societies where a homemade firearm is the only option, and even then there are ways around it.
Where there's a will there's a way.

>>64147819 (OP)
You're just thinking of the US. It's a country with plentiful guns, and criminals, weirdly, like to steal stuff. Machining guns is hard, and smashing windows and nigging guns is easy. Also, straw purchases are a thing. Every criminal out there has a friend or family member they can get to go to the gun store and purchase guns legally for them.

In countries where guns are rare, criminals do use homemade guns all the time. The biker gangs in Australia are especially good at it. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/04/04/australian-motorcycle-gang-diy-firearms-surface/

>>64153142
To piggyback on this, look at the kinds of modifications street level criminals make to guns. It's rare to see any practical modifications that would require any level of disassembly like installing an aftermarket trigger or better iron sights. Instead they waste time installing switches to make their Glocks full auto even though they can't control them for shit. Good practical lights are rare item especially compared against lasers. It seems lights only show up if they are part of a light/laser combo. There is a pattern of extended Glock mags that are probably mostly shitty third party jamomatics. I've pretty much never seen a slide mounted pistol optic on these police haul pics. The rare optic is in the AR pistols and the assorted carbines and it's always some Walmart tier shit.
This class of criminal isn't even smart enough to put on no-background check legal upgrades on their guns. The guns are more a piece of social attire than anything. Watching videos of random drivebys where each side fires 1000 rounds and neither hits an intended target makes it clear. I mean for fucks sake one of the ARs in the pic has a proper rifle buffer and the buttstock is just missing for no good reason. Somebody shooting from down the street with a bolt action rifle who was a half decent shot would be far more lethal in absolute terms. Criminals tend to be more about bravado.

There are of course exceptions in organized crime and cartels where there are real heavy hitters, but most street trash are retards.

>>64147819 (OP)
Making homemade firearms is honest work.

>>64148592
>You can build a blowback 9mm pistol that uses a basic version of the 1911 mechanism in any garage that can service a motorbike.
says the 80% lower amerimutt who can buy critical gun parts.. so pathetic, you don't deserve or understand homemade guns because you can just buy a factory one legally
do you realize that 1911 uses short recoil and a moving barrel? how do you plan to replicate that in a shed?
do you realize that a fucking 1911 is not some old gun? it's literally perfected self loading technology, it has lots of intricate parts that you won't be able to make reliably. you are not a factory, you don't have the TDP or any sort of design, all you have is a paper drawing unless you go ahead and make a pistol in a CAD, but then again you DON'T HAVE FUCKING MODERN CNC (ordering from corpos is fuck all expensive), so you'll have to print the shit and overlay it over sheet metal, you will inevitably have to make multiple variants of components and etc. picrel is a mk3 version of a pistol that someone made. one confirmed build. ONE. and it was made by a highly skilled guy from america where it's legal (search Krikit 25 and Kolt380, the latter was unfinished iirc), he spent a shitton of time, had a very good workshop, FACTORY AMMO (guess what, gun control works and getting ammo without a license is hard), and it was all chambered for a puny .25. he experienced lots of feeding and extraction issues at first.

>>64147819 (OP)
Depends on the market. Is south america there are tons of "carlos" sub guns based loosely on carl gustav smgs, some have theorized that the design and naming was originally imported from the middle east. In Australia a dentist was making lutys for bikies, if it's easier to get than a factory pistol then that's what criminals will wind up with.

>>64148592
>>64153333
do you realize that even making a simple blowback pistol is very hard? with simple blowback you are either limited to rounds like .380 and 9x18 makarov (but the tricky thing is that you can only use .380 because 9x18 uses a 9.2 millimeter bullet and you can't source a pipe for asmoothbore barrel like that!!! and ECMing one would be quite hard) unless you use a heavy slide that is or figure out how to lock the barrel lol
t. butt blasted european who tried. I may try again but I still haven't got my loicense to buy primers which I need to reload .380 NO FUCK YOU I WON'T RELOAD PRIMERS I WANT FACTORY ONES MAKESHIFT ONES SUCK I TRIED

>>64153341
You can button rifle 1/4 schedule 40 pretty easily for 9mm. But maybe they don't make proper pipes where you live.

>>64153387
it's easier to do ECM than bother with mechanical shit. where I live we have perfect 16mm OD 9mm ID pipes perfect for smoothbore pistol barrels. for ECM you need 16mm OD 8mm ID iirc.
I hate the fact that you can rely on the fucking.. ENTIRE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX to produce your civilian guns. it's kinda the same here too with AK carbines, an AK carbine here is your PSA AR-15 (AR-15s are seen as regal, cute, sporting rifles here, guess where I live), and handguns are illegal. hence I want a HANDGUN / submachine gun. building a STEN pattern SMG is roughly the same complexity as building a self-loading pistol and I could even try fitting the magazine well for Saiga-9 mags.. also the design in first picrel accepts makarov mags and it fits .380 so it's very wonderful because magazines are unregulated here and I can buy them off local amazon.
but I need primers..

There's kind of a market for that, remember the R9 Arms machinegun?

>>64148592

Open bolt SMGs are literally the simplest repeating guns in existence. This is why they were so popular in the Balkans.

The only reason illicit manufacturing of subguns doesn't proliferate over here is that it's legally so much easier to make semi autos.

The incentive just isn't there to make a fucking Zagi illegally when the AR is an option.

>>64147819 (OP)
>How come homemade firearms arent popular with the criminal underworld?
Criminals want what the "big boys" have. They might as well be mini-warlords. Why buy potentially janky weapons, when you can steal or acquire firearms through the black market?
>doesnt it make sense to just use the disposable pig iron
Most common murder weapons are 9mm and lower caliber pistols. Buying cheap low-caliber pistols to kill people makes the most sense, so Yes? Buying a handmade 7.62x39mm weapon is asking to get your hand blown off. And if someone could make a well-functioning weapon of such a caliber, why not just go into the biz and make all the money?
> instead of smuggling or stealing weapons and running a risk of getting caught?
Bro, do you know how easy it is to score a glock with a switch? It's insanely simple and easy:

Method #1:
Go on online marketplace and attempt to buy a gun rack. Ask if guy has guns for sale (they usually do). Buy guns, walk out with guns.

Method #2:
Go to nightlife area (or Ghetto) of your city. Buy party drugs (Cocaine, Molly, Weed). Come back later and complain about guy trying to break into your house. Ask if dealer can get a gun (They usually can). Set up a sale and buy gun.

Method #3:
Go to gun show in rural area. Wait to see if anyone outside is selling guns "as is". Buy gun, walk away.

Method #4:
Make friends with niggers. Hook them up, buy them shit, and be a friend. Watch anime and smoke weed together. Ask if he "knows anybody" (they usually do). Make sale with friend of a friend. Now they know you're "cool" and will hook you up when new stuff comes along.

The above methods are how 90% of guns are sold, unless you know of a "hub". Basically a warehouse or room where there's a ton of stolen shit. Most people can't buy from such places unless they're vetted (i.e. criminals) but those criminals can sell to others. You can buy crazy shit for cheap from them even if it's "Jamal'd".

>>64147926
I can't wait till the Jews make a DNA targeting virus and gets rid of you little nasty gremlins once and for all. With Sheinbaum dancing all over an empty Mexico

>>64154327
two more weeks.

>>64147823
>If criminals wanted to work they would get jobs

If you listen to podcasts with any criminal who isn't a complete bottom rung thug, you quickly realize is is just a job with a huge risk and massive paydays.

>>64147819 (OP)
Because old war time funs are plentiful, commies sold their stuff for anyone intrested after the wall came down (only time I support and cheer them ever) and stealing guns is easier than making new ones or even reactivating old deactivated ones. And in US everyone and their mom is packin'.

For most people guns work like phones. Total magic. On one you press play and you stroke your winny, qnd on one you pull the trigger and give a shot. Most of them don't know how the gun works exactly or how to make one. And the tools can be expensive, even for home making.

>>64147819 (OP)
gang members in my area keep getting arrested for 3d printers with auto switches and shit. What kind of investment is a 3d printer monetarily?

>>64155993
I should add that none of them are completely fabricating guns, mostly creating silencers and conversion switches for automatic fire. A gun on the street is like $50. These are street gangs of young black kids. So im always shocked when they get caught with a 3d printer and $300k cash.

>>64155990
I can somewhat understand people not bothering to learn how phones and computers work because they are pretty complicated machines, but its absolutely baffling to me how people who use guns can't be fucked to understand how they work, I've had conservations with guys who shoot more than me where they give me glassy stares when I talk about the actual mechanisms of their guns

>>64156054
It's about the person not the object. Many people don't have a troubleshooting mindset. "Thing broken = take thing to get magic repairs."
A person who troubleshoots and repairs their own computer is more likely to at least attempt to take apart and understand their own gun (and vice versa). It's not 100% overlap, but a pretty decent predictor. Maybe they won't be expert or even actually fix the problem but they'll at least make an attempt.

American criminals aren't cool enough to need handmade weapons.

>>64147819 (OP)
They kinda are in some places, but it's just that if you can get a stolen pistol on the black market, there's no real incentive to build your own.

For criminal ventures, handguns are generally the most appealing weapons because you want something which you can conceal on your person or otherwise easily hide. While a 9mm Luty may be cool in its own way, it's a big and clunky fucker which does not handle well and requires a trenchcoat to conceal well at all.

You could make a smaller gun, but making a half-decent handgun which can fire multiple times is a lot less easy than making a banana slamma blowback bullet hose.

>>64147938
Anon, the entire idea with criminal profit is to try to make money faster than legit means. Sad as it is, there's not much of a legal market for pipeguns.
Setting aside risk and consequences, what is more profitable in the immediate sense, trying to sell a shitty illegal pipegun, or using that pipegun for robbery?

Anyway, the Luty is stupidly easy to make, you need no special tools or materials, you can get all the stuff you need (sans ammunition), from any common hardware store.

>>64156522
>Anyway, the Luty is stupidly easy to make, you need no special tools or materials, you can get all the stuff you need (sans ammunition), from any common hardware store.
go ahead my american nigga, make one and then file ATF form 4 to register it
have you ever even viewed the original/updated build guide? stupidly easy my ass
if you're a machinist then yes, but it still takes time and you NEED machining tools
and most importantly you need ammo which you can't get in a country where gun control works

>>64148637
are you Mexican?
fuck this gay country

>>64147819 (OP)
It's simply easier (and peobably cheaper considering the tools needed) for criminals to aquire properly manufactured firearms than to make their own. Homemade guns used to be somewhat common in places like Brazil and Europe, but nowadays you can probably go to your local mosque and buy an AK. Now the only place that really does homemade firearms anymore are Myanmar (mostly 3d printed though) and Khyber pass.

>>64155841
what are some good podcasts for this?

>>64155993
You can get a pretty good home printer for around $200 these days, filament is $5-$10 a pound.

Cause its easier to just buy blackmarket ones rather than make your own for most retarded street hoods who probably never graduated high school.

>>64156715
I had no idea it was so cheap. Is printing shit just as easy as finding the desired blueprints and buying "filament"?

Why build a gun when you can easily find them just lying around?

I saw a video of a 3d printed mold set to make a concrete frame for a lathe, it seemed like it still needed some specialist parts but I'd imagine it's still way cheaper than buying one outright. Assuming the guy manages to work out the kinks, and assuming you can source the parts that you can't print like bearings etc, being able to build a lathe for dirt cheap using a printer means you can start doing actual gunsmithing instead of 3d printing a plastic gun frame, cramming some metal in it, and hoping it doesn't explode.
What I mean by this rambling mess of a post is, at home fabrication of precision parts is becoming more and more viable, and as it happens at home gunsmithing becomes more viable too, regardless of any future restrictions on printing guns specifically.

>>64156746
Pretty much, you need to learn the slicing software to make the stl into gcode your printer will run but you should be able to make some coat hangers the day you get it if you selected a good one and are of average intelligence.

>>64147857
It’s this
>>64147822
And this
>>64147854
And this

>>64156553
>fuck this gay country
Yeah I'm Mexican (living in Mexico) unfortunately.
Things are getting worse and worse (at least where I live)

>>64147819 (OP)
Homemade firearms suck and are unreliable

>>64157680
I was out of the country for a while, and now I am back. People here also say the same thing. two kidnappings for ransom happened this year where I live. last time it was that bad was 2012.

I hate the government so much bro.

I am going to leave it there. I don't want to derail the thread

Clandestine gun factory found in Brazil recently.

>>64147819 (OP)
they'd rather put their artisans and mechanics to work making submarines instead of making a thing they can get on the black market easily. but you find some cartel made guns in brazil.

>>64157680
As an American I've been being told repeatedly for the last few years by various "media outlets" that Mexico has effectively gotten their shit together for the most part and the problem areas are all coming from south of Panama.
Disclaimer, I'm not suggesting this is true or not, this is just what the media has been trying to push here in northern America lately, I would assume news is different closer to the border.

>>64158197
Mexico is an upper middle income country EXCEPT for crime. If it weren't that and the shitty labor laws it would be comfy living. The crime is a massive handicap and everyone with good intentions just ignores it because they can't do nothing about it, and those who can are absolutely degenerate richfags who are in on it.

Yes central Americans migrate here and stay because it is objectively higher income and more opportunities than their home countries.

>>64157978
>>64157989
Interesting. I guess they did the same like in Mexico. Smuggle barrels and pressure bearing parts but machine lowers and uppers
>>64158197
No, Mexico is a shithole, not Haiti tier but it's quite bad at least in crime.
The cartels have started using IEDs w/o "Furadan" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbofuran) to make shitty chemical weapons in addition to drones, largely thanks to former Colombian military personnel / Ex Ukrainian volunteers who are being imported en masse.

>>64147819 (OP)

Because it's insanely easy to get guns illegally very, very cheap so there's simply no need to make homemade firearms.

personal experience:
I lived in Charlotte, NC, at a customer service job. Multiple people at the job sold drugs so just there you could get any drug you wanted. I didn't do any drugs. I do love guns though and have several, went to blackstone shooting sports ~1-2 times a week. People found out I liked guns. Guy offered to get me any gun I wanted. "ha no thanks I can just buy them." "No I mean ANYTHING. Full auto, I have two grenades right now I'll give you for $40 if you let me have half your chinese the next time you get it. Or if you just want a normal gun I can get you anything you can buy at that store for 1/4 the price"

And that was just me existing. Not even actively trying to find illegal guns. If you're already a part of communities who do that it's probably even easier and cheaper.

>>64147819 (OP)
Cause most people in general especially criminals aren't very smart or handy..for fucks sake there is a current thread about a retard who can't fit an RMR plate to a Glock

>>64158507
Hey! We're working on it

>>64159043
LOL Godspeed anon

>>64158416
>Mexico is an upper middle income country EXCEPT for crime. If it weren't that and the shitty labor laws it would be comfy living

Damn thats exactly like South Africa

>>64159043
I don't understand why you're bothering with the plate at all when you can just JB Weld the optic to the gun.

>>64147819 (OP)
Most semiautomatic pistols shoot faster than fully automatic stens, but mostly they're easier to get too.

>>64147819 (OP)
Because it's a lot cheaper to just steal someone's ''''self-defence'''' gun from their house than it is to build one.

>>64147826
Imagine getting a Japanese Yakuza ak

>>64156571
Larry Lawton's channel on YouTube is pretty good.

>>64159583
The Kalashnikov Everywhere System

>>64156571
There are some excons that run YouTube channels. Mostly I listen to a local radio stations crime podcast. So that's in Danish. Its run by an ex cop and an ex con. Thay talk a lot about how the amount of merchandise, maybe not by weight but by number of shipments, was pretty comparable to a regular spediton agent.

Meeting clients, handling trucks, sending unpaid bills to 'collections'. Crime is very comparable to regular business. Just instead of someone dragging you to court, they show up with a bat. Instead of there being a low risk of loosing a shipments to a train crashing, there is an added risk of cops taking it.

Bomp

>>64147943
a fucking wooden door

>>64156054
Criminals do not actually "use guns" on a regular basis. They don't do target shooting. They don't do regular maintenance. They don't have hollywood shootouts between rival gangs unless things have gone really horribly wrong.
They either have their gun jammed into their waistband or sitting around on a table in their trap house in case someone tries to rob them.
They are sometimes brandished and VERY rarely (if ever) fired.
If you look at pictures of guns seized from drug dealers they're often all rusted to shit because they don't even oil them.

>>64165082
>They are sometimes brandished and VERY rarely (if ever) fired.
Not entirely true, gangbangers tend to shoot each other fairly often. Gangsters shooting gangsters make up the overwhelming majority of all gunshot injuries and deaths in the US when you exclude suicide.

It doesn't tend to be dramatic and protracted shootouts though, more often it's someone ambushing someone else and shooting at them with a handgun, taking quick shots, and then escaping. Kinda depends a bit how the situation goes, maybe they hit the target and the target runs away and maybe or maybe doesn't survive, or maybe they drop quickly, in which case the attacker might stick around for a few more seconds to shoot the target more to ensure death.

That's still a low roundcount though, because as said, this isn't practiced for, and recreational shooting is relatively scarce (as these people are very often fugitives/convicts, being seen with a firearm at a public range is a risk).