Thread 64150233

Why is it superior to 5.56?

Ogive length. Other than that, It’s not bad, just isn’t spectacular.

We almost achieved greatness (Picrel). But the project went nowhere.

>>64150233 (OP)
it's not

>>64150233 (OP)
except it's not. it has near identical ballistics as 5.56 yet it's far more uncommon and a lot less weapon platforms use it.

>>64150233 (OP)
>>64150242
They're both roughly equivalent, each with minor pros/cons in ballistic performance, ammo storage/capacity/weight etc. depending on the logistic scenario and firearm used
5.56 is probably better for longer 300+yd range and precision fire engagement overall

>>64150410
>shorter bullet
>5.56 is probably better for longer 300+yd range and precision fire engagement overall
Delusional

>>64150527
>25% more energy
>higher sectional density and velocity
>much more accurate ammo
lay off the vatnik coolaid, pidor

>>64150527
>>64150531
If bullet material density were kept constant, Indeed the 5.45 would eventually outpace 5.56 in energy, probably before 300 yards. Though 5.45 has ample ogive allocation, the shape isn’t all that great, and the bullet doesn’t even have a boat tail. If you loaded the 5.45 with a .220 version of picrel, however, that would be a different story. But 5.56 can not load such a fine bullet.

Picrel: 750gr .510 A-max. 5 cals long, 3 cal ogive. Should fit just fine in either the 5.45 or 5.56FABRL case without breaching COAL. According to BC figures I found, the i7 form factor is below 0.8.

>>64150564
just mindlessly chasing the lowest form factor isn't appropriate to military needs as they use a variety of bullets including AP, tracers, training ammo and so on and depend of the costs of ammo, thermal stability, storability and reliability a lot more. 5.45 tracers already don't follow the trajectory of ball ammo properly, any further disparity would only make this issue worse.

to this day the bulelt with the lowest FF that saw military adoption was the first spitzer bullet ever used - Balle D for 8mm Lebel, and for a good reason.

>>64150233 (OP)
>superior to 5.56
How?

>>64150613
> just mindlessly chasing the lowest form factor isn't appropriate to military needs

Ugh, I know, it’s sooooo gay.

>Muh tracers
It’s called aiming, they should try it. Or use picrel.

>8mm lebel
Insane that nothing finer has ever been adopted. The L:D isn’t even that high. You’d think the finest bullet ever adopted would’ve been something that looks like a CETME bullet.

>>64150613
Btw just to see what happens, I looked up the ballistics chart for m855a1 vs m855a1 w/i7ff=0.8. The difference is 25% more energy at 300 yards, with less drop, less drift, and a longer MPBR. The case needs to be shorter but the bullet only needs to be a tiny bit longer (5 cals = 1.12”, vs ~1.04” for m855a1)

>>64150665
>> just mindlessly chasing the lowest form factor isn't appropriate to military needs
>Ugh, I know, it’s sooooo gay.
Unless you're 17 or younger, grow the fuck up

>>64150691
Fuck you, I can express my discontent with the state of affairs all I want.

>>64150233 (OP)
Optimized case shape. 5.56 is elongated .222 Remington, which was a relatively old and long cartridge anyway. Uses less metal for the same volume, better extraction i.e. more cone ->brass not so important.

>>64150677
Yes, the benefits of ballistic coefficient have been well understood for over a century by now.

>>64150233 (OP)
>/k/ thread is secretly gay and confused like the entire board
just use 7.62x39 you stupid faggot

>>64150531
7N6/7N10 have slightly higher BC than M855 despite been lighter.

But is it enough of a difference to make a difference?

>>64150770
They also have the muzzle energy of .30 carbine. Your point?

>>64150726
lol, yeah I was obviously expecting higher retained energy but didn’t quite know how much to expect. Cause there is such a thing as diminishing returns in BC if you’re only shooting to 300 yards. If you keep doubling BC but keep energy the same, eventually a doubling of BC will yield only 1ft*lb more at 300yds.

>>64150811
Due to BC 5.45 ball windrift (main source of error fir long range shooting) would slightly lower and it's better suited for long range shooting than M855.

>>64150233 (OP)
Everything Russia makes is superior to the West.

>>64150903
A higher velocity bullet will have less wind drift due to less time the wind can act upon it. STFU already midwit.

>>64150613
>to this day the bulelt with the lowest FF that saw military adoption was the first spitzer bullet ever used - Balle D for 8mm Lebel, and for a good reason.
And this reason Americans been ballistically illiterate but push their abominable cartridges on other countries using USA economical and political strength.


>The M1906 maximum range was originally overstated. When the M1906 cartridge was developed, the range tests had been done to only 1,800 yards (1,650 m); distances beyond that were estimated, but the estimate for extreme range was incorrect by almost 40 percent.[10] The range discrepancy became evident during World War I.
Lololololol.

>>64150923
Punch numbers into ballistic calculator

>>64150751
This. 5.56 and 5.45 are both inferior to 7.62x39. The Russians switching to 5.45 was an example of cargo cultism after they saw what the Americans were doing with the M16 and 5.56 cartridge.

>>64150932
>using USA economical and political strength.
Sounds like someone is mad they're from an irrelevant shithole

>>64150943
>5.56 and 5.45 are both inferior to 7.62x39.
>out of barrels less than 10" in length
you forgot part of your sentence, king. luckily I understand what you really meant to say.

>>64150943
>The Russians switching to 5.45 was an example of cargo cultism
And switching to 7.62x39 wasn't?

>>64150943
The Russians being cargo cultists vis a vis SCHV would imply the Americans know what they’re doing, and have a deeper methodology used to derive SCHV that is invisible and/or incomprehensible to the knuckledragging Russians.

But no, there is no cargo cultery going on. SCHV, in hindsight, is kind of an obvious/inevitable cartridge development and it’s no surprise the entire world switched over from the short and fat gen 1 intermediates (8mm Kurz, 7.62x39) over to gen 2 (5.56x45, 5.45x39, 5.8x42).

>>64150923
NTA. They both matter. Minimizing wind drift for a given cartridge selects for an arbitrarily high BC. But xBC@2000fps will have more drift than xBC@3000fps.

Anyone know how exactly wind drift changes with BC and time of flight? Not the whole formula, just “wind drift goes up with the square of x” type stuff.

>>64151016
>the entire world switched over from the short and fat gen 1 intermediates (8mm Kurz, 7.62x39) over to gen 2 (5.56x45, 5.45x39, 5.8x42).
Actually the entire world switched from full size rounds to SCHV, only rusniggers had the intermediate step monkeying Germans.

>>64150410
>5.56 is probably better for longer 300+yd range and precision fire engagement overall
Because of the inherent characteristics of the round itself, or is that a product of a better rifle and ammo production?

>>64150726
TBF that AK wouldn't suffer much from a shortened barrel.

>>64150990
I mean yes but actually 7.62x39 only loses about 100 fps going from 16" down to 12". Wagner mercs carry an AK-103 for CQB and an AK-74M for longer range engagements.
>>64150994
It was the obvious thing to do. It was obvious that the Red Army needed something that could bridge the gap between their shitty nuggets and PPS submachineguns for modern mechanized warfare.
>>64151016
The biggest advantage the 5.56 and 5.45 cartridges have over 7.62x39 are of course weight savings and cpr. Essentially they're the ideal cartridges from a government bean counter's perspective. The Pentagon hastily adopted the M16 and 5.56 during the Vietnam War because American GIs were getting mauled in the jungle by VC armed with Chicom Type 56 AKs. The Pentagon's logic was that most American boy scouts were already familiar with shooting 22s at home, so they could just take a literal squirrel cartridge and up the power a little bit so they could just hose down the enemy with bullets. Then they figured out that telling their troops to spray and pray like that negated the advantages of being able to carry more ammo, so they created the M16A2 with a three-round burst limiter and target sights because the muhreens were obsessed with the rifleman meme and Camp Perry matches. Somewhere along the way they forgot that an assault rifle was supposed to be a souped-up submachine gun (i.e. how most of us are configuring our ARs today).

>>64151092
>The Pentagon hastily adopted the M16 and 5.56 during the Vietnam War because American GIs were getting mauled in the jungle by VC armed with Chicom Type 56 AKs.
They didn't see any AK armed VC until M16 was already in widespread service.

>>64151092
>The Pentagon's logic was that most American boy scouts were already familiar with shooting 22s at home, so they could just take a literal squirrel cartridge and up the power a little bit so they could just hose down the enemy with bullets. Then they figured out that telling their troops to spray and pray like that negated the advantages of being able to carry more ammo, so they created the M16A2 with a three-round burst limiter and target sights because the muhreens were obsessed with the rifleman meme and Camp Perry matches. Somewhere along the way they forgot that an assault rifle was supposed to be a souped-up submachine gun (i.e. how most of us are configuring our ARs today).
Most braindead post on /k/ right now.

>>64151025
You’re right, I should’ve worded that sentence better.

>>64151109
>three-round burst limiter and target sights because the muhreens were obsessed with the rifleman meme and Camp Perry matches.
That's a documented fact

>>64151026
idk would've thought someone addressed that by now itt
but they're too busy on 'muh russia' and 7.62×39

>>64150994
>x39 is FUCKING cargo cultism too!!

>the coveted 2 weeks later... finally happened
>sprinting through thick foilage, sky looms with mushroom clouds
>long ass meme gun tacticool SVT/M14/SCAR H or fake SVD substitute(no PKM or 240 because you are a good goy who bowed to the NFA until the very end) gets ensared in something
>plummets into the ground face first and eats shit twice as hard because 700 rds of 7.62x54r/51 in hippy rig
>no water source, /k/ sacred tradition
>ukro-khazarian/russian ork/amerigolem/jewish/chink death drone slowly hovers into sadpepewithspilledlunchtray.jpg
>*boom*
>distant *AACKKK!!!!!!!!* echoes through the gray tinted greenery, flocks of birds disturbed
>only known legacy is gore.webm used to push a shit take by retards groomed by feds on a imageboard
in that case, 30'06 in a demonic modernized bullpup BAR is better if you are a trust fund nepo kid who wants to die in style
without the pile of brass under your corpse

>>64150233 (OP)
It kind of isn't, you can load both of them very closely.

>>64150527
>>64150242
Not significant for an infantry rifle cartridge.

>>64150794
No, but we need something to talk about

I wonder, the vz58 can push 7.62x39 an extra 200 yards over the ak in practical accuracy
if the vz58 had been adapted with 5.45, would it be able to perform significantly better than 5.56 because it lacks the drawbacks of an ak?

>>64151149
the three round burst was added as a compromise because the army wanted to remove full auto completely, retard

>>64151166
good morning saar

>>64151194
what variety of mental illness is this?

>>64153032
>what is /k/?

>>64153013
> the vz58 can push 7.62x39 an extra 200 yards over the ak in practical accuracy
Based on what

>>64150233 (OP)
Anecdotally it feels like it has less felt recoil than 5.56 but that could just be me.

>>64153331
a video a guy made where he was testing it
i mean a good ak could probably get out that far too but generally speaking 300 yards is the best you'll get out of one, and the vz58 can consistently do 500

>>64153357
ak weighs more than the ar, absorbs more recoil
its a trade off basically

>>64153357
someone did infact just mention in the thread that it had the same energy as a 30 carbine, which is a fucking shock to me
but if you had to shoot for work you'd notice that m855a1 is loaded hotter than store slop
>>64153396
link video or drop trail of crumbs

>>64153396
What allows for this? One isn't more accurate than the other and both are putting 7.62x39 out if a 16" barrel.

>>64153029
?

>>64153183
whole thread

>>64153438
>>64150811
It always bear repeating that energy is never the full story.

5.45x39mm has the same 1000ft/lbs as .30 U.S Carbine, and these ft/lbs can also be matched by 10mm Auto in a pistol when loaded with a VERY lightweight 77gr bullet, but you're looking at successively shorter effective range and weaker terminal ballistics with each of these, they are so very different from each other in all other characteristics. As saucy as you can load a pistol in 10mm Auto, it's never going to be able do what a 7n6 load of 5.45x39mm can do, 180gr and heavier being much better suited bullet weights for the vaunted "Centimeter" anyway.

While one can discuss in detail whether 5.56x45mm or 5.45x39mm is superior, I would say that both are more than adequate and have worked out tremendously well, with nil recoil, flat trajectory, light ammo, and goatse wound characteristics. Both are a .22ish caliber cartridge of similar weights which are more powerful than .22 Spitfire, which was Melvin Johnson aiming to take the M1 and M2 Carbines into the future as budget SCHV guns by necking down .30 U.S Carbine to .22 caliber.

where do you find heavy-grain 5.45?

>>64150233 (OP)
The differences are so small they are functionally the same cartridge. It really depends more on whether you like AR and its derivatives, or AKs more.

>>64150943

7.62x39 is a meme. It can't decide if it wants to be an smg+p or rifle cartridge and chose the worst parts of both. Shit ballistics. Shit armor penetration. Shit weight. Shit recoil.

>>64153028
Have you read the US Army's official M16A2 trials report? I have

>>64153470
>One isn't more accurate than the other
One must be or he wouldn't have brought it up.
Not having the reciprocating mass of a long stroke gas does keep down vibrations that can impact accuracy

>>64153643
The anime poster has said the most intelligent thing ITT

>>64150726
Let me fix this disingenuous piece of shit picture for you.

Remember, kids, if you try to compare OAL of a weapon, you start at the pistol grip. No one shoots a rifle by tucking their hand into their armpit.

>>64154473
relax there internet master armorer, you forgot to mention that availability is pretty good on this while most platforms running this are easy to maintain, isnt as sensitive to decimals to other calibers when reloading if you decide to go mountain man and that is despite the downsides you listed
that, and an sks wont make you look as weird and out of place in the woods doing normie shit compared to a 5.45 ak or an ar
all of the sudden people are wanting to post again, cool
>>64154551
this makes more sense, my point still stands

>>64153438
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEASv3stY9k
i might be overstating it since its been a while since i saw the video, but this is what im basing my statements off of
>>64153470
its about tolerances, stamped vs milled basically

Some high performing Ukie infantry guys have claimed that the 5.56 outperforms 5.45 on humans by a slight margin. I don't know if they're thinking in terms of shooting through body armor or just flesh, but I find it easy to believe if all they have is old ball ammo for the 5.45 and for the 5.56 they get the fancy stuff. Anyway for some reason I just think 5.45 is sexy

>>64150233 (OP)
Because there was once a time in the early 1990's where you could get a thousand rounds of these gay little faggots for $100
Now the only 5.45 is commercially available shit that costs 5x more.

>>64155058
THIS.

I remember a time where some American gun companies were going to make 5.45 AR-15

>>64155058
>>64155066
well at least we still have 5.56

>>64154473
The AK with its 7.62x39mm was the best infantry rifle in the world until the western world stopped with the bullshit and began looking at SCHV assault rifles.
It's certainly not as good as the later 5.56x45mm and 5.45x39mm, but it still works well for what it is, is mostly better than battlerifles in most ways, and has proven that extensively, even when the M16A1 and AK74 was better, the AKM still remained pretty damn good.

You could also shit on 7.92x33mm, which looks particularly terrible from a modern perspective, but in its day that was a cutting edge concept, in an era where most infantry rifles were still 5 shot bolt-actions, the Sturmgewehr, for all its various deficiencies, was a pretty potent force multiplier. Smaller numbers of German Volksgrenadiers were able to hold their own to remarkable lengths against larger numbers of otherwise better supplied American troops in big part because of the Sturmgewehr.

When the other side doesn't even have assault rifles, it doesn't matter if your assault rifle isn't as good as it could be, because it's a fucking assault rifle and they don't have those. If both of you have assault rifles, and yours isn't maybe as good, that's not gonna be a deciding factor.

>>64154510
I always try, even when posting from a gas station bathroom.

>>64154788
That's now how it works, otherwise a milled AK would be measurably more effective than an AKM.

>>64156219
>The AK with its 7.62x39mm was the best infantry rifle in the world
lol, so good nobody has copied it

>>64156526
People did though, aside from all the Combloc nations making their (sometimes pretty distinct) licensed clones, you have Zastava.

Yugoslavia was not offered the AK technical data package because Tito didn't want his country to be just another serf state to the Soviet Union, which made Stalin mald. When Yugoslavia wanted the AK, they had some technicians travel to Poland to try to learn from their industry and try to cut a deal with the Polacks.
This ended up not really getting anywhere in the official sense, but the Yugos got hooked up with the Polish black market, where they bought a pair of stolen Polish AKs, which they brought back home and reverse engineered.

The end result is that Zastava AKs are closely copied from the AK, but aren't 100% part interchangeable, the receivers are different and won't accept standard AK or AKM furniture.
Initially they wanted to have full LRBHO capability, like on an FAL or M16, replace the mag and hit a bolt release, but the way they went about this would preclude magazine interchangeability between Zastava AKs and other AKs (they wanted to be able to share ammo and mags with allies if needed), so the feature was ditched. The remnant of this feature is that Yugo AK mags will catch the BCG after the last round is stripped, which was the compromise solution, but Yugo AK mags will otherwise work in other 7.62x39mm AKs, and other such mags will work in the Yugo AKs.
There's also the part where Yugo AKs would typically have RPK style reinforced trunnions and then a gas shutoff doubling as a ladder sight, because the Yugo military had a very strong love for grenade launching.

Later in time, the infamous Aum Shinrikyo death cult in Japan had actually reverse engineered the AK74 and manufactured a few examples.

>>64156526
What do you call the Galil?

>>64156219
>best infantry rifle in the world
kek
Wrong

>>64156927
>sadpepewithspilledlunchtray.jpg

>>64156927
>Fuckers unironically think a g3 is better than an ak
Battle rifles are beyond retarded. Also mounting any optic to the gun and having it hold 0 is a nightmare

>>64158120
>AK Fag
>Use "Also mounting any optic to the gun and having it hold 0 is a nightmare" as an argument against any other gun

>>64158120
>Battle rifles are beyond retarded.
No country on earth has willingly replaced their battle rifle with AKM. Seethe aktroon.

>>64156684
>People did though
No they didn't. Only poor shitholes that got AKs and the tooling for free from soviets adopted it.

>>64156708
A 5.56mm rifle.

>>64158189
Modern AKs have integrated pic rails, modern g3s still use a retarded claw.

And yeah battle rifles are retarded. Cry is free.

>>64158202
And how many of those 'modern AK's are in actual service compared to private ownership?
AK's are a meme platform for tankies and 5.56 reigns supreme.

>>64158202
>Modern AKs have integrated pic rails
that can't hold a 10MOA zero, lmao

>>64158194
>i dont live on earth
>>64158196
>i absolutely detest nations that dont have to depend on a military industrial complex that also has gender awareness positions
>>64158262
>when russia and any other country formerly or currently under their sphere does it, it doesnt count
>my store slop ar15 that doesnt meet socom standards wont totally blow up and send shards of aluminum into my empty skull when i run m855a1 through it
>>64158268
>what is a dovetail mount and why am i such a noguns faggot anon
Have you hydrated properly before you went out to play with your novelty toy in the woods?
Your lips are very red and I don't see any water source on your rig, just massive minecraft squares

>>64158365
>i am a seething troon coping about my irrelevant dead rifle from an irrelevant dead nation again and again
we know. one day it'll be too much to bear and you'll surrender to the inevitable fate of every aktranny.

>>64158395
>we
Say again? Couldn't quite understand, you forgot your water source? Thought I heard you mumble that you didn't need it, going to have to speak up louder here to stay in the game, friend, that was a little weird.
Lips so red you look like your trying to be a pin up girl

>>64158512
>this babble is the best shitskins can muster
grim

>>64158544
Say what?
That you want to go to the s1 to change your gender to female?
Well, that is alot to unpack, you are a little behind on this unfortunately

>>64156219
>The AK with its 7.62x39mm was the best infantry rifle in the world until the western world stopped with the bullshit and began looking at SCHV assault rifles.

Personally Id prefer to have a Portuguese AR-10 than an AKM

>>64158637
speaking of AR-10s
the ones that you'd use for work, actually had the same moa as the fucking m4 carbine, i am not sure if it was specific to that one arms room but id actually trust the portuguese one more
wouldnt be my cup of tea, but this is a little more than numbers on the internet

>>64156927
That's not even the best battle rifle by any metric, the only thing it has going for it is style and aluminum mags.

>>64158196
>No they didn't.
Except the ones that did, like Yugoslavia.
Oh yeah, and Romania reverse engineering 5.45mm to make their own not-AK74. Also Finland, Israel, and South Africa.

So, dilate.

>>64150233 (OP)
It's not, cool screenshot though I guess you don't have a single round to take a picture of? Kek

>>64158194
Egypt moved away from their Hakim battle rifles (among other things) in favor of AKs.
Israel found the FAL fairly unsatisfactory, and outright considered adopting the 7.62mm AK straight, before opting to copy and develop the Finnish Valmet AK in 5.56mm, which is still an AK.
South Africa adopted that Israeli AK to replace their FALs and G3s.

You are a chronic and incurable homophile, and I pray for your parent's broken heart.

>>64158924
>Except the ones that did, like Yugoslavia.
AKA communist shitholes that were retarded. AK for subhumans confirmed.
>and Romania reverse engineering 5.45mm
Because 7.62x39 is and has always been trash.

>>64158951
>Hakim battle rifles
lmao
>Israel found the FAL fairly unsatisfactory, and outright considered adopting the 7.62mm AK straigh
delusional
>which is still an AK
A product improved AK that had to copy the M16 to not be dogshit.
>You are a chronic and incurable homophile
you're a literal ak shilling tranny, you should be stranged with your guts before being lit on fire

>>64150233 (OP)
Because its IMPLESSIVE!

>>64159006
>How is the hakim not a battle rifle? Unless the M1 garand isn't a battle rifle either?
>That's the truth though, does omit the fact jews had a fuck ton of captured AKs
>The only thing it copied was using 5.56, the Galil has as much in common with an M16 as a G3 has with a Mosin
You're retarded and gay, please cease posting or continue making a fool of yourself

>>64159277
>How is the hakim not a battle rifle?
it's a failed small scale project, it didn't even enter regular service to be replaced.
>The only thing it copied was using 5.56
aka the most important part. without the garbage gayk round it's actually a decent rifle.
>You're retarded and gay
you should fellate your ak and pull the trigger, tranny faggot

>>64158924
>not even the
"battle rifles" don't exist,
note reply to the other anon's
>best infantry rifle
and refer to the desuarchive.org

>>64151092
Ah but don’t forget the biggest takeaway from the adoption of 5.56: it’s designed to be as effective, if not more effective, than the typical .30 cal rounds within 300y. Another interesting thing they found was that since it dumped almost all of its energy into the target rather than going through like how 7.62x51 tends to do, it is absolutely devastating when it hits, especially within 200y out of a 20” barrel. Wounds that were normally treatable from the .30 cal rounds would be lethal or harder to treat if done with 5.56

300 BLK is superior to 7.62x39

>>64158994
>>64159277
>>64159290
You can continue moving the goalposts in impotent and balding anger, I suppose, but it will simply never ever change the fact that 30 rounds of 7.62x39mm was and is a significant force multiplier over 20 rounds of 7.62x51mm, which was the initial argument, and you were just as well incorrect about "nobody copying" the AK. You simply didn't want it to count.

I'd tell you to dilate, but you're clearly already so gaped that if you spread yourself open any further, you'd rip open a hole in space and time.

>>64151092
>It was obvious that the Red Army needed something that could bridge the gap between their shitty nuggets and PPS submachineguns for modern mechanized warfare.
The AK wasn't intended to bridge that gap, it was intended to replace the subguns entirely, the concept the Red Army had been moving towards was a "Universal Cartridge" where the M43 7.62x39mm would be shared between a rifle (SKS), a machinegun (RPD), and "subgun" (AK).

They moved away from this because they found that the AK wasn't just the superior new subgun, it was also the superior new rifle, so the SKS wasn't necessary anymore, and they felt (right or wrong), that the AK could also be a light machinegun with some tweaks, the RPK.
Obviously, you also need a proper GPMG as well as a form of DMR, which they also moved towards.

>>64159578
Battle rifles are strictly a neologism, but it's commonly used to describe full powered infantry rifles with self-loading actions. The Germans use the phrase "heavy assault rifles" to differentiate the FAL and G3 from intermediate cartridge assault rifles, and I think that sorta works, but it also excludes first generation battle rifles like the M1, SVT-40, G43, and so on.

Nonetheless, the G3 just isn't as good as an AK. It's decent, but the heavier ammo and recoil is a huge drawback, and the FAL just has a way better reload (better than the AK's, for that matter).

>>64159607
100%, it does pretty much the same thing (supersonic .300BLK is in fact extremely close to 7.92x33mm ballistics), but without being as needlessly tapered and fat assed. Better suited for suppressing, too.

>>64159598
Here’s some more on that, with the Brit’s being borderline scared by it lmao. Now I doubt 5.56 out of the 20” ar15 was the most lethal round of its time, but clearly it was no slouch and able to keep up performance with the other common military rounds within its own range

>>64159641
Yes. 5.56mm didn't have the profound barrier penetration which some had grown accustomed to with 7.62mm NATO, but it was an absolute fucking beast in terms of wounding, which is why Russia realized that upgrading the AK to a similar cartridge was important, and why other western nations were faced with the realization that they needed their own 5.56mm rifles.

7.62x39mm was pretty good, but SCHV is the optimal approach for an assault rifle cartridge.

>>64159656
Some of the initial reactions are kinda funny, like how they thought it was so lethal and created such vicious wounds that it would be a war crime to field it.
As an aside, you’re right the penetration is lesser, but it still being able to penetrate as steel helmet out at 500m is pretty cool

>>64152651
> Not significant for an infantry rifle cartridge

So use FABRL magic to lighten the cartridge and increase the combat load. A larger quantity of ammunition IS significant.

>>64159634
>the G3 just isn't as good as an AK
Wrong.
put two separate opposing squads of infantry in the same terrain, equipped the same except each squad armed separately with the G3, AK and see who wins

>>64159863
>g3 in general use dies screaming from recoil management, shorter capacity, heavier longer shape and overall being overwhelmed by a higher volume of fire without having to break it up in retarded hypothetical scenario that some faggot daydreams about
>xister!! watch my back im about to make a push for semen!!
>im up they/them sees me im d-
>*im reloading xister!!*
>*gets grapeshotted by storm of 7.62x39*
>AACCKKK!!!!!!!!!

>>64159863
NTA but the G3 would lose that hypothetical everytime. Heavy battle rifles suck ass for combat, the AKs are much better suited for volume of fire. Battle rifles are only worshipped by europoors who have never fought an actual war.

>>64160114
>>64159884

YOU FOOLS, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? HIS ANUS HAS TORN ASUNDER AND BECOME A SUPERMASSIVE BLACK HOLE, YOU'VE DOOMED US ALL!

>>64159863
>far longer and heavier gun
>far more recoil
>far heavier and bulkier ammo
>somehow even worse reload than the AK
Yeah, so fucking good.

>>64159616
>the fact that 30 rounds of 7.62x39mm was and is a significant force multiplier over 20 rounds of 7.62x51mm
that's the opposite of reality and clutching to mag capacity as cope won't change that AK users always took massively greater casualties when facing troops using better rifles, which obviously include full powered ones.

>>64160133
>far more accurate and lethal
>recoil doesn't matter because unlike ak subhumans that spray and pray you aim and shoot
>while the ammo and the rifle are basically just as heavy as a battle rifle
admit it, ak is an obese glorified bullet hose

2013-ass debate

How many battle rifle seethe threads does this homosexual have to make? We're at 3 currently, all filled with the same self-deluded wanking over his pet FABRL copy.

>>64160139
>far more accurate and lethal
Milspec G3 accuracy is the absolute definition of nothing special. Also the lethality doesn't matter for shit, real life isn't Jeff Cooper's delusions, a center mass hit of M43 within 100yds is virtually guaranteed to drop a man like a sack of potatoes.

>recoil doesn't matter because unlike ak subhumans that spray and pray you aim and shoot
Volume of fire is a critical component of infantry combat, they deduced this by studying statistics of WW2 infantry engagements extensively, and it's easily demonstrated by again looking at what German soldiers with the Sturmgewehr managed to achieve. Rene Studler just fucking refused to acknowledge this and sperged about muh individual marksmanship.

>while the ammo and the rifle are basically just as heavy as a battle rifle
For an early milled AK with the 1mm sheet steel mags, maybe, but with an AKMS it's considerably lighter and shorter (less than 8lbs, versus the almost 10lbs of the G3), and with recoil which is almost nothing.

>glorified bullet hose
A modern infantry rifle NEEDS to be a bullet hose, you faggot retard.

>>64160134
>and clutching to mag capacity as cope won't change that AK users always took massively greater casualties when facing troops using better rifles
Because having better air support and artillery support, particularly against forces which are irregular, makes a far greater difference than the infantry rifles.

>>64160158
>Milspec G3 accuracy is the absolute definition of nothing special.
and AK accuracy is 6 MOA even before the crooked front sight and the rainbow trajectory of the shitpile round
>real life isn't Jeff Cooper's delusions
nice name drop out of nowhere, good to see that scum still fears his name like always
> center mass hit of M43 within 100yds is virtually guaranteed to drop a man like a sack of potatoes.
center mass hit of M43 is less effective than a .22 lr in dropping someone down, it's literally the worst performing round ever designed in terms of terminal ballistics.
>Volume of fire is a critical component of infantry combat
you don't realize what volume of fire means because you're a nogunz loser that only saw guns spraying in video games.
>and it's easily demonstrated by again looking at what German soldiers with the Sturmgewehr managed to achieve
losing to Garands?
> but with an AKMS it's considerably lighter and shorter
irrelevant
>and with recoil which is almost nothing.
unless you're sending children to fight anyone can handle 308 recoil.
>A modern infantry rifle NEEDS to be a bullet hose
your thinking explains things. full auto is a very niche thing for real militaries, to the point that they drill troops not to use it. using a gun like a bullet hose is the hallmark sign of a third world military.

>>64160166
>Because having better air support and artillery support, particularly against forces which are irregular, makes a far greater difference than the infantry rifles.
why can't ak users afford better air support and artillery support, why are they always reduced to irregular fighting? can't ak use that superior bullet hosing power you're so obsessed with to gain any superiority?

>>64160186
forgot pic related, M43 is the singular worst performing military cartridge of the last century, exclusing the pre-spitzer round nose bullets.

>>64160186
>center mass hit of M43 is less effective than a .22 lr in dropping someone down
c'mon now m8

>>64160186

>unless you're sending children to fight anyone can handle 308 recoil.
Well maybe you niggers should have won nam with your m14s against their AKs. Full power 7.62x51 sucks ass full auto, its why every battle rifle also weighs a million pounds to try to soak up some of that recoil.
>full auto is a very niche thing for real militaries
Thats why every gun in a modern squad has full auto. Thats why squads have machine gunners. Its not like the machine gun completely changed how wars were fought.
>center mass hit of M43 is less effective than a .22 lr in dropping someone down, it's literally the worst performing round ever designed in terms of terminal ballistics.
Beyond copium. Anything 7.62 moving 2000fps+ is one tapping your ass.

>>64150233 (OP)
It is not. 5.45 and 5.56 are both completely useless for modern combat.

Full power rifle rounds are superior between the expected modern combat range of 600-800.

>>64160153
>BR vs AR
>Milled = moar accurate
>7.62 stoppan powah
Lmao you're right, what a time capsule this thread is

>>64160212
>Well maybe you niggers should have won nam with your m14s against their AKs
They did win every engagement but the point is moot because they switched to SCHV mid-way which was actually revolutional unlike ak.
>Full power 7.62x51 sucks ass full auto
it's good enough full auto for the niche things that full auto is used.
>Thats why every gun in a modern squad has full auto.
it's still a niche thing, underage noguns. several militaries either considered or outright removed full auto from their rifles because of its limited utility.
>muh machine gun
don't shift the goal post, we're talking about infantry rifles here.
>Anything 7.62 moving 2000fps+ is one tapping your ass.
spoken like someone who never studied a thing about ballistics outside of video games. all that 2000fps round is doing is ice picking and going clean through without any disruption or cavitation, much like a .22lr would. it sucks so bad it's like your nigger mom behind a bar on a friday evening.

>>64156927
As somebody with both a 7.62 ak and a G3 I can firmly say that the akm was and still is a significantly better fighting rifle in every way with the singular exception of the DMR role. The G3 is a gigantic heavy piece of shit. It's my favorite purely because if the sexiness of it.

The anon saying that 7.62x39 from an AK was the best bullet/rifle of it's time is correct. Up until the end of Vietnam it was the best rifle for infantry fighting that was widely in use. An actual assault rifle. Everyone else was using m14's (lmao), FAL's, g3's just meme battle rifles. Obviously the M16 and AK74 changed that.

>>64160186
>center mass hit of M43 is less effective than a .22 lr in dropping someone down
Behold, the hyperfudd.

>>64160243
> They did win every engagement
Copium
> it's good enough full auto for niche things that full auto is used
> they switched to SCHV
Clearly it wasn't. Intermediate rifle cartridges like 7.62x39 and 5.56 were better hence their adoption.
> it's still a niche thing
Please watch any of the footage out of ukraine or any modern conflict. Yes full auto is extremely useful whether its trenches, forests, or urban warfare. Basically anything where you want the other guy to die and it isnt a flat field for miles.
>spoken like someone who never studied a thing about ballistics
Says the guy claiming a cartridge with 1500 ft lbs of energy will do the same internal damage as one with 150 ft lbs of energy. Even if it only dumped a fraction of its energy in the target that, along with the larger mass of the bullet would be more than sufficient. But I guess your nigger brain can't comprehend that, just like it can't comprehend battle rifles were a step backwards in firearms development from the AK platform.

>>64160134
>they took casualties in my demented coping fantasy dream where i imagined the G3 won flawlessy
>>64160186
>more useless hypotheticals, now theyre assumptions
>YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO SHOOT THE 240/M2/MK40 IN SEMI!!!!!!!! FULL AUTO IS FUCKING NICHE!!!!!!!!!
>>64160189
>g3 wins because of support, gotcha *retard shit eating smirk*
>>64160201
>ignores countless testimonies where 5.56 does not do shit and wont do shit
the reason why m855a1 was brought up is not because the army wanted to be vegan, but because the predecessor(anything that isnt 55a1 or the tungsten) is dog shit in the mountains of afghanistan, the high altitude meant there was less gravity thus had way less resistance to maintain accuracy, could not fucking hit shit even with the acogs
meanwhile their 7.62x39 was already a heavy round so it was not fucking affected by high altitudes
i know you werent there, or else you wouldnt have such a faggot piss baby bitch take, plus good luck dragging your "battle rifle" up there, or anywhere without bitching out to your friends for help if you somehow have any, god forbid you get them killed too, let the ammo bearer take your food and water, you wont be needing it buddy
>>64160243
>full auto is okay now for battle rifles, especially building clearing being one of the "niches"
>dont move the goal posts, 7.62x51 is only better in battle rifles, not the machine guns la la la guu gah gah
>here you are speaking like someone who is obsessed with video games haha, gotcha, i totally wont get shin splints marching around with a combat load of 7.62x51 like a little bitch, by the way 22lr is better
>20 inch m16s are not based but muh battle rifle is

>>64160186
>nice name drop out of nowhere
Because he was very outspoken about how 7.62x39mm and 5.56x45mm were just completely incapable of killing and we should never have moved away from glorious 7.62x51mm, if he was alive today he would be a sigger.

>>64160285
>the high altitude meant there was less gravity thus had way less resistance to maintain accuracy
What the fuck am I reading?

>>64160283
>Copium
who died 10:1 again when wielding AK?
>Intermediate rifle cartridges like 7.62x39 and 5.56
5.56 is worlds apart and revolutionary unilike the shitpile x39
>Please watch any of the footage out of ukraine or any modern conflict.
yes, like i said, untrained subhumans use full auto. actual militaries use semi.
>Says the guy claiming a cartridge with 1500 ft lbs of energy will do the same internal damage as one with 150 ft lbs of energy.
you still don't know what ice picking is. get a hint noguns kiddie
>just like it can't comprehend battle rifles were a step backwards in firearms development from the AK platform.
ak was a stillborn failed abortion of a rifle copied from a wartime failed experiment that was discarded in favor of a real rifle. ak is a garbage bullet hose and always will be.

>>64160285
>YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO SHOOT THE 240/M2/MK40 IN SEMI!!!!!!!!
imagine going back to the falsehood that you got a specific rebuttal for. i guess ak shitskins just can't help themselves.

G3 pros:
>good aluminum mags
>pretty good sights
>decent accuracy potential
>flat trajectory and good barrier penetration (real missed opportunity nobody ever made a GPMG in that there 7.62mm NATO cartridge)
>looks sick as fuck

G3 cons:
>+9lbs, just about 10lbs loaded if it's the G3A4 model with the sliding stock
>7.62mm NATO recoil in a 9lbs select-fire rifle is still kind of awful
>made a bit worse by the violent delayed action
>farts carbon all over the inside of the gun with every single shot
>worst controls ever, like reloading a Mauser rifle while holding it from the muzzle end, awkward mag release, no LRBHO
>big slot on cocking tube invites dirt, even the slightest bit of sand getting in there means the rifle is gonna seize up hopelessly
>only way to mount optic back in the day is a bulky claw mount
>milspec German triggers are completely atrocious because "muh dropsafety" autism
>bad triggers, military ball, and G3s not actually being built to PSG-1 standards means accuracy really isn't anything special
>launches brass into the stratosphere, mind your squadmates

AK / AKM cons:
>mediocre at best accuracy
>manlet length of pull
>kind of terrible sights
>no LRBHO (can almost get there with Yugo mags, but not quite)
>rainbow trajectory
>magazines are kind of awkwardly shaped, little awkward going prone with
>can't reach selector without breaking grip
>no ready way to mount optics on old milled AKs, later AKMs with the side mount are about as gracious and sleek as the G3's claw mount, ergo not really (the top cover is kind of awful)
>MP40 style underfolding stock on AKS and AKMS is uncomfortable as fuck to shoot
>Romanian/East German wire sidefolder doesn't loosen up in the same way, but feels similarly awful
>Bulgarian AMD65 has a barely nicer sidefolder but is instead a shorter carbine with a brake which habitually rapes your hearing during field exercises
>Yugos have no chrome

AK / AKM pros:
>larger magazine capacity than G3, and can easily carry twice the ammo, later bakelite mags mean the load is even lighter than before
>recoil is easy to manage, short and long salvos are both a breeze, rapid single shots are trivial
>manages to have a better reload than the G3 in spite of not even trying
>still pretty good barrier penetration with that heavy bullet
>famously durable, fairly easy to unfuck if it gets fucked, even the dumbest conscript would struggle to ruin it
>Yugo mags at least have that partial LRBHO I guess, and very conducive for launching grenades

>>64160367
>and can easily carry twice the ammo
b8

>>64153470
Stamped AKs have more barrel whip than milled due to the way the barrels are attached to the front trunnions. If you watch a Type 3 AK and AKM firing in slow motion, then you'll see the Type 3 barrel has slightly less of the rubber banding effect.

>>64160371
You're carrying 120, maybe 150 rounds of 7.62x51mm NATO for a G3 or FAL (and not even all in magazines depending on the time), while you can carry 300 rounds of 7.62x39mm for an AK, particularly when you're using lighter weight bakelite mags instead of the old ribbed steel ones. That makes enough of a weight difference that you could throw in another 30 if you really wanted to.

>>64160379
>You're carrying 120, maybe 150 rounds of 7.62x51mm NATO for a G3 or FAL (and not even all in magazines depending on the time), while you can carry 300 rounds of 7.62x39mm for an AK,
more nonsensical b8

stop pretending 7.62x39 is 5.56. it's an obese dead weight. you get 10% at most.

>>64160377
Now post accuracy results

>>64154473
>It can't decide if it wants to be an smg+p or rifle cartridge
What exactly do you think an assault rifle is supposed to be?
>Shit ballistics.
It's considered effective out to about 300 yards, which is better than 55gr M193 that everyone shoots due to Newton's Laws of motion (force = mass x acceleration).
>Shit armor penetration.
So again just like 5.56
>Shit weight.
DYEL?
>Shit recoil.
Skill issue
>64156526
The Finns, Israelis, South Africans, Columbians, Swiss, Belgians, and Swedes all copied the AK. American AR babbies copied the 7.62x39 cartridge and called it 300 chimpout.

>>64160393
>It's considered effective out to about 300 yards, which is better than 55gr M193

>>64160329
>who died 10:1 again when wielding AK?
Not the viet cong if US estimates are to be believed. Also totally not inflated by air power/arty or anything.
>you still don't know what ice picking is. get a hint noguns kiddie
Clearly the AK did enough damage since the losses made you pull out of nam. So much for "ice picking". Also the human body isn't a uniform block of 20% ballistics gel. Clean pass throughs are much more rare when you're passing through several mediums of different density and thickness, and not striking at a perfectly orthogonal angle.

Anyway its a moot point because all AKs are chambered in 545 anyway (what this thread is about, aka not your shitty battle rifle cope cartridge).

You can cry all you want about the AK but it was infinitely more influential on firearms design and modern doctrine than your retarded battle rifle fetish.

>>64160382
7.62x39mm, M43 Ball weighs 288gr for the full cartridge weight.
7.62x51mm NATO has a full weight of 388gr in both the older M59 Ball and the later M80 Ball loading.

The G3 evens things out a bit with the aluminum mags (particularly versus the first gen slabside AK mags), but the later bakelite AKM mags with the still lighter M43 Ball load adds up a lot.

>>64159607
7.62x39 has more case capacity. The only things 300 gettheblacksout has going for it are projectile selection and reloading with trimmed 5.56 brass.

>>64160400
>Not the viet cong if US estimates are to be believed. Also totally not inflated by air power/arty or anything.
Cope, lmao.
>Clearly the AK did enough damage since the losses made you pull out of nam
Clearly M14 did enough damage to make viets sign the peace treaty.
>So much for "ice picking"
just google it you underage loser.
>Clean pass throughs are much more rare when you're passing through several mediums of different density and thickness, and not striking at a perfectly orthogonal angle.
delusional cope.
>Anyway its a moot point because all AKs are chambered in 545 anyway
Yes, good on them to copy Americans in their wonderful SCHV invention. Good on soviets to recognize the dogshit qualities of the original, for once.
>You can cry all you want about the AK but it was infinitely more influential on firearms design
there's not a single thing ak has lead to except filled the armories of third world dictatorships with guns built by slave labor.

>>64156684
>Yugos got hooked up with the Polish black market, where they bought a pair of stolen Polish AKs, which they brought back home and reverse engineered.
They 100% just stole them from the Poles. It's funny that they think the whole black market story is believable.

>>64160409
I mean, the Polish black market is just Poles stealing from the Polish government, so that's pretty much an academical difference, the rifles were illicitly acquired from Polish inventory no matter how you look at it.

>>64160201
>another thread where AR tards compare modern 5.56 projectiles to WWII-era 7.62x39
Why can't you fags ever argue in good faith?
>>64160398
Being able to hit a stationary steel plate at 500 yards when there's no wind is not a realistic representation of combat effectiveness. A 7.62 projectile has more momentum at range due to its higher mass.

>>64160427
>modern 5.56 projectiles to WWII-era 7.62x39
who's to blame that soviets kept using those ww2 era projectiles until they collapsed?

>>64160427
>A 7.62 projectile has more momentum at range due to its higher mass.
therefore 7.62x51mm is superior. good job debunking the ak meme.

>>64160406
I mean you can keep crying about the most produced assault rifle of all time, or just accept that it was a good firearm. It was way ahead of its time in 1947 and as a result its derivatives are still used now.

But yeah you think .22lr and 7.62x39 have similar terminal ballistics. You can google all you want nothing will corroborate that.

>>64160427
>>64160431
Because if they argued in good faith they'd have to accept that the G3 and battle rifles as an idea might as well have died the day the m16 was invented

>>64160431
Retarded noguns doesn't know about 8M3.
>>64160435
It's superior in effective range, yes. No one is denying that. We were talking about 5.56 though.

>>64160437
> the most produced assault rifle of all time
mass produced garbage is still garbage
>It was way ahead of its time in 1947
it was the same backwards failed abortion of a gun it is today
>But yeah you think .22lr and 7.62x39 have similar terminal ballistics
M43 does, and this is an objective reality admitted by numerous ballisticians. it's the most dogshit round made in the last 100 years.

>>64160445
>muh niche round that soviets totally used actually makes ak good
keep going underage noguns, you're one search away from what ice picking means.
>We were talking about 5.56 though.
and 5.56 has more than twice the effective range of 7.62x39.

>>64160447
No even m43 with no expansion will still create a larger hole than .22lr, and penetrate deeper. Only a tranny retard could convince themselves otherwise.

>>64160460
>No even m43 with no expansion will still create a larger hole than .22lr, and penetrate deeper
.22lr with a flat nose will create a bigger hole than a spitzer .308 and will penetrate fully through a human torso. overpenetrating non deforming spitzer bullet just sucks absolute ass at wounding, it's the truth.

>>64160431
>soviets kept using those ww2 era projectiles until they collapsed?
They made literal billions of them and up until Vietnam it was the greatest small arm on the entire planet. By the time anything challenged it they were moving to 5.45 anyway.

Why did you try and sound intelligent with your retarded comment? You should be asking why NATO adopted a round designed to mimic a round from 1906, just shorter, and did fuck all with it until the 60s.

If you're going to cope with German meme ammo and LC match then the soviet's did make other 7.62x39mm rounds and in greater quantities than NATO.

>>64160464
Yeah it can be ass at wounding? and it can be better than .22lr what about this breaks your brain? Also nobody uses the term ice picking in any technical manner, its a term made up by hunters for .223s effect against deer.

>>64160466
>and up until Vietnam it was the greatest small arm on the entire planet
no matter how many times you repeat this stale lie it won't become true. it was literally nothing and nobody who the soviets weren't sponsoring adopted it.
>If you're going to cope with German meme ammo and LC match then the soviet's did make other 7.62x39mm rounds and in greater quantities than NATO.
delusional tankie faggot, lmao

follow your failed shithole and blow your brains out.

>>64160471
>nobody uses the term ice picking in any technical manner
you don't even know what the term means, underage tankie shitstain

>>64160472
Name a better cartridge pre schv that had mass adoption. If it isn't 30 carbine you're completely full of shit.

Again why was NATO using a round mimicking a round from 1906 which was in turn replicating a Mauser from the 1800s?

Why talk shit if you can't back it up?

>>64160466
>Why did you try and sound intelligent with your retarded comment?

>>64160473
Clearly because it seems to be this divine technique that gives .22lr the wounding capability of a 7.62

>>64160452
>>muh niche round that soviets totally used actually makes ak good
Isn't that what AR fags do when they say 5.56 is the best cartridge ever because of boutique rounds like 77gr Black Hills Mk226 and 75gr Hornady TAP?

>>64160475
>Name a better cartridge pre schv that had mass adoption
.308 win.
>Again why was NATO using a round mimicking a round from 1906
because it works great, unlike 7.62 kurz
>Why talk shit if you can't back it up?
i've backed it all up while you're screaming falsehoods about ak as russia is getting stomped and destroyed today. i can't wait until the disgusting shitstain that rusnigger union is on the world is completely destroyed and wiped out.

>>64160475
Its because he believes AKs shoot 22lr despite many wars pointing to the contrary.

>>64160479
>still trying to deflect from M43 to other .30 cals
you're so bad at this, you should take some more lessons from your fellow tankie troons.

>>64160484
Unfortunately they'll be around forever given that with trump they have all the bargaining power. Not to mention both sides are primarily using AKs for their infantry rifle oh.

>>64160485
>despite many wars pointing to the contrary.
which wars featuring ak users had them fight at a positive k:d ratio?

>>64160491
>trump will save us
nothing will save you, zigger scum. all russians will die and the world will be infinitely better for it.
>both sides are primarily using AKs
Ukraine is already dumping the ak for better rifles and will the rearmament complete it'll be gone forever.

>>64156526
Galil
RK62
Yugo M70
SG550 was heavily inspired by the AK
Same with the FNC IIRCC
Not mention all the countries who found it more convenient to just buy AKs from someone

>>64160492
Pick any war the AK fought in, it killed people. Find a war where an army used .22lr for anything. You can't, stop coping.

>>64160499
>Find a war where an army used .22lr for anything
Vietnam, duh. .22lr still kills people dead, it's just not good at it, much like M43.

>>64160495
I wish, but again at best ukraine can get a ceasefire which that probably won't happen till 2028. As much as I'd love russia wiped off the map the war has been mostly static frontlines for the last 3 years with no end in sight.

>>64160498
>Galil
5.56.
>RK62
forced onto finns politically.
>Yugo M70
broke bitches couldn't afford anything else.
>SG550 was heavily inspired by the AK
5.56, "heavily inspired" means shit, ak design doesn't have a single original idea in it.
>Same with the FNC
not even close.
>Not mention all the countries who found it more convenient to just get aks for free from the soviets
ftfy

>>64160507
>but again at best ukraine can get a ceasefire
delusional zigger
>2028
there won't even be a russia in 2028

>>64160508
ohno 556 its still based on an AK not a G3 cry

>>64150233 (OP)
7.92

>>64160513
genuinely im curious what do you think will happen, that results in russia not existing by 2028. Nuclear war?

>>64160515
who gives a shit? the only thing special about the ak was the garbage round, after it copied the M16 it became another mediocre irrelevant gun.

>>64160519
russian economic collapse and civil war.
>ook nook
lmao, ziggers can't help themselves.

>forced onto finns politically.
Yes because the finns were such big fans of the russians

>>64160530
>he doesn't know
being fans has nothing to do with it, same reason they adopted the BMP for example.

>>64160527
Ik tankies are big on copium but this is on another level. They have their oil money and the worst of the sanctions has been weathered theyve found new buyers who don't care.

>>64160539
>They have their oil money
not for long with the way things are going
>and the worst of the sanctions has been weathered theyve found new buyers
pidor, please

wouldnt ukraine collapse economically first, everyone has either fucked off into the rest of europe, they are being bombed unlike russia

>>64160523
The AK-74 is still seeing combat today. The M16 is getting replaced by some Sigger piston rifle.

HK33:
>still has goofy and bad reload, but recoil is nothing
>most other flaws still apply
>20rd mags are kind of weird for 5.56mm
>40rd mags are long, but that extra capacity was appreciated by some
>trying to M16ify the HK33 into the G41 is an awful idea (at least in its execution) and the G41 is heavier than both the M16A1 and HK33
>HK53 is kinda cool, particularly with a sliding stock and 40rd stendo

HK36:
>obvioussly made under the influence of expired panzer chocolate
>the side door magazine with plastic 25rd Mannlicher clips and "spoontipped" 4.6mm bullets are the visions of absolute lunatics
>cyclic rate of an MG42
>no irons, only a 1960s reflex sight
>thankfully put out of its misery by the G11 project and for 4.6mm being appreciably inferior to the SS109/M855 cartridge
>G11 project in turn thankfully put out of its own misery by German reunification

AK74:
>5.45mm is better than 7.62mm (either) in every metric that matters, much lighter ammo, flat trajectory, light recoil, wounding almost as good as 7.62mm NATO
>bakelite mags are light and rugged
>5.45mm combined with a strong muzzlebrake means the gun has virtually no muzzle climb, followup shots are very easy and controlling the gun even in sustained fire is a breeze
>still has the not very good sights, controls, scope mount, etc, but still a lot better overall
>not as good barrier penetration, but that's what you have your DMR and support weapons for
>grenade launcher has much more kick than the American 40mm, but it's servicable

Galil:
>ripped off from the Finns, but they add a bottle opener and built in bipod
>5.56mm AK in the 1960s, meaning the Finns beat the AK74 to the punch by roughly a decade
>milled receiver is probably excessive, but the much better sights alone are very welcome, as is the thumb selector
>because Israel is absolutely deathly allergic to paying for their own shit, ever, the Galil ends up being heavily sidelined by free gibs M16s from the U.S, so times have not changed much

>>64160549
>they are being bombed unlike russia

>>64160545
Looks exactly like the second Soviet rapist.

>>64160553
>The AK-74 is still seeing combat today.
pic related
>getting replaced by some Sigger piston rifle
zister, ak-12 didn't pass sigger quality standards, do take note.

>>64160553
>The AK-74 is still seeing combat today.
Primarily by brown and asiatic faggots who lose five to ten guys for every enemy they kill.

>>64160557
I know its mostly in jest but ukraine can maybe hit a couple strategic targets, not really anything inland russia meanwhile all their cities are actively getting shelled and droned the economic effects are hardly comparable

>>64160553
I don't see the DOD being able to reconcile the conceptual problems of the NGSW project with reality, it's a fundamentally bad idea executed badly and grunts are hating it. Even if you iron out the problems of Sig Saar's bad execution, the XM7 and XM250 aren't going to become good guns.

>>64160569
>Sigger quality standards
>p320
lol

>>64160576
>maybe hit a couple strategic targets, not really anything inland russia
AHAHAHAHA, the zigger cope is hilarious

>>64160582
siggers still make better guns that kalashnikov, that's how subhuman rusniggers are.

>>64160584
not comparable. cant replace all the people that left for good

i fucking wish they'd just let ukraine get long range missiles and level moscow gaza style

>>64160589
cope at least when the ziggers shoot themselves its intentional

>>64160596
>cant replace all the people that left for good
can't replace those cracking towers either, LMAO, and unlike the rusnigger slave cattle every ton of petroleum lost actively brings russia closer to death.

keep pretending that you're not a zigger, you're totally fooling everyone.

>>64160589
Have you seen the INSAS?
Have you seen an Indian FAL?
The latter at least functions, but it has last ditch WW2 era tier machining to it.
Having seen some XM7s and reports on it, I'm not better impressed.

I would much rather take any AK100 series rifle over any of those, and I say that while being of the opinion that the AK as a whole is an obsolescent relic.

>>64160600
>cope at least when the ziggers shoot themselves its intentional
does it help when their ak fails to work? >>64158395 at least sig can put the sight on their guns straight.

>>64160603
>I'm not better impressed.

>>64160576
Are you retarded? The vatniggers are wasting an enormous amount of their long range weapons striking targets that have no strategic value.
I can't fathom why they do it either. One assumption would be terror bombing, but the more likely reason is a combination of poor accuracy and the strategic targets having better protection. Or maybe they're just fucking retarded. It's probably a combination of all three.

>>64160602
dont need to pretend idgaf, but if you follow it at all you know that ukraine is not winning this anytime soon. people have been saying russias economy would collapse since 2022. prighozin was the best chance at a coup

>>64160379
>>64160382
>>64160403
300 rounds of 7.62x39 M43 is equal to 2.370 kg

300 rounds of 7.62x51 M80 is equal to 3 kg

15 140gram 20 round aluminum G3 mags is equal to 2.100 kg

10 Early 430 gram 30 round steel AK mags is equal to 4.3 kg
10 330 gram steel reinforced rib AKM 30 round mags is equal to 3.3 kg
10 250 gram steel-reinforced plastic 30 round AK mags is equal to 2.5 kg

The man carrying 15 20 round G3 loaded mags is carry 5.1 kg. If you combine that with the G3A3 (4.38 kg) then you get total weight of 9.48 kilo

The man carrying 10 30 round AK loaded mags carry 6.67 kg, 5.57 kg or 4.87 kg. if you combine that with the AKM (3.3 kg) then you get a total weight of 9.97, 8.87 or 8.17 kg depending on mag. Going by these numbers then the 7.62 AKM does not have a signifcant weight advantage over the G3A3 if equal number of rounds carried.

Now if we use pic related from wikipedia and then throw in the weight of the gun
>AK-74: 3.07 kg + 9.92 kg =12.99 kg
>M16A1 2.89 kg + 9.80 kg =12.69 kg
You have double the firepower for only about 3-4 kg extra weight versus the AKM or G3A3.

>>64160620
>I can't fathom why they do it either.
They pretend to work while government pretends to pay. A soviet proverb. They waste priceless munitions pretending they're hitting anything valuable.

>>64160623
>dont need to pretend idgaf

>>64160620
cuz if people leave the country over being bombed 24/7 you won't have any manpower to fight with. not like theyre coming back once they flee to poland

>>64160312
I accept your concession, come back with a expeditionary medal instead of google search numbers. experience counts
you wont because you are just a useless retard
>>64160334
>i deny the dumbassery i wrote
your entire string of posts is a falsehood, now that you want to bring politics into it, ukraine winning is also a falsehood
now post your cope gore, prove everybody right that you wont ever be a woman, go on to using made up faggot buzzkill words thinking you are really cool, not totally alien to everybody seeing the heap of shit coming out of your mouth

you unironically ruined the only decent /k/ thread by being such a faggot, notice how some old heads were talking about how it felt like a time capsule before you started samefagging your unholy jewish tantrum cope just because you are neurotically envious of the practicality of 7.62x39
You lost tranny, and you missed. I offered invaluable info and you instead let out a screeching reddit tantrum
this is a really good thread showing that (((people)))(if its not just one seething troon) are instead obsessed with russians to the point that they are willing to give bad advice like bringing a clunky heavy fucking rectangle with squares bigger than the sincgars radio batteries into modern trench warfare
thats a done deal, especially when the troon forgot to trash on the 5.45 it was too focused on how much better x39 is

>>64160642
>cuz if people leave the country over being bombed 24/7
russia can't even disable the power for a day nowadays in Ukraine, best they can bomb is empty fields around Pokrovsk.

>>64160642
That shit's never really worked. It just makes people angry.

>>64160644
uh oh, this zister is out

>>64160657
>t. i am army and the troon wishes i was russian

>>64160653
true and russia is retarded. in other news the sky is blue

>>64160644
>you unironically ruined the only decent /k/ thread by being such a faggot, notice how some old heads were talking about how it felt like a time capsule before you started samefagging your unholy jewish tantrum cope just because you are neurotically envious of the practicality of 7.62x39
where have i heard this line before?

>>64160642
You know what would actually make people flee? Destroying the Ukrainian power grid, and their access to essential goods. Randomly lobbing shit-tier missiles and drones at huge cities does almost nothing.

>>64160662
>picrel validates thread
good job nafo xister

>>64160668
zero self awareness

>>64160669
>i am a jew
everybody knows

>>64160644
You cant make this shit up.

Dude unironically hates russia so much he is willing to die on the hill of 7.62x39 being the same lethality as .22lr

>>64160672
cool samefagging zister
>also STILL shifting away from M43 to all .30 cals

>>64160672
cant fucking believe it myself, but honestly it is what it is, thats how things are when you have to include everybody with cool shit

>>64160671
are the jews in the room right now?

>>64160678
>am i here shitting up the thread for everybody?

>>64160186
Post a single gun you own

>>64160671
>i am a jew
Of course you are, Chaim.

>>64160679
>zero self awareness

>>64160682
>let me make it clear, i am a jew
people have eyes, you know
>>64160683
>i am unaware of losing
this thread did make a black hole out of your retarded battle rifle mumble that now you devolved into politics

>>64160688
>absolutely zero self awareness

>>64160680
inb4 its a .22lr

You guys are retarded

>>64160691
>projecting an anti semetic trope
classic admission through accusation

>>64160694
we know, i went to the zoo and decided to jump in with all the animals

>>64160688
>loses an argument
>starts crying about politics
>in a vatnik wank thread
every
single
time

>>64160699
>is gay and confused
>uses politics to explain why

>>64160695
>anti semetic

>>64160697
Makes you especially retarded then

>>64160699
this is what wokeness does to a generation, thinks everyone who tells them the fucking obvious is some kgb agent

>>64160712
>wokeness
so true zister!

>>64160706
>will capitalize jew all the while saying
>vatnik
>zigger
>zister
>or whatever the fuck else thinks it will help it fit in
>>64160712
>if you don't side with cuckraine or israel, you are brown and you work in the russian ministry of interior
7.62x39 is still better, faggot

>>64160720
>will capitalize jew
get your eyes checked, zister
>cuckraine
not helping the brown accusations here, pal

>>64160720
>7.62x39 is still better
better at getting one-sidedly killed, yes, we know

>>64160734
your zigger dumbass wishes it could own guns legally whatever brown shithole you live in

>AK-47 Kalashnikov: The firearm which has killed more people than any other
how do you respond without sounding mad?

>>64160743
communists aren't people

>>64160734
>i will let a brown jew get ukranians killed en masse for post modern faggotry as long as i dont speak russian, you are brown if you call me out on it
>>64160736
>incoherent madness
its still better
>>64160744
communists are jews most of the time, see karl marx and lenin, so you are right, but they dont kill eachother unfortunately, so the kill count still counts

>>64160749
>but they dont kill eachother unfortunately
least brainrotten zigger shill

>>64160750
>jews genociding is actually warfare, goy
where have i heard that before

>>64160743
I wonder how many people AK-47 has actually killed. Was it used in any major conflicts before they replaced that POS with AKM?

>>64160744
The communists were using AKs to kill people, retard-kun.

>>64160758
>the communists didn't kill communists
impressiev!

>>64160749
>its still better
better at getting killed, yes. no need to repeat yourself.

>>64160766
If they had g3s in nam they would have won and you know it

>>64160756
you can probably look up the numbers and the places it was used just before the AKM came to be for a good estimate
>>64160762
>everybody was a commissar, of jewish descent and they openly had glorious battles where every single person had an ak
>>64160766
>incoherent babbling
Yes, it's infinitely more practical than your novelty toy, you can untwist your panties now so everybody can understand you better next time.

>>64160784
>it's infinitely more practical
practically useless? true.

>>64160778
they'd probably kill viets 20:1 instead of 10. Idk why you keep screeching about the G3 though.

>>64160788
Yes, the g3 you spent an entire thread defending is practically useless, for other than DMR role.

>>64160784
>glorious battles
ak's don't win glorious battles, the kill count was achieved in the back of the head.

>>64160796
what, malnourished shitskin twig arms can't lift a wittle rifle?

Is there some schizoid dickriding the G3 so hard he's accusing Russia of undermining his shit take in here?

>>64160784
>you can probably look up the numbers and the places it was used just before the AKM came to be
Yeah but what happened to the original 47s? A good chunk of the original production was probably sold to some african warlords who in turn got plenty of less-documented use out of them

>>64160799
>back of the head
more likely with nagant revolvers or tokarevs if you dont want to be disingenuous about it
>>64160801
(You), and I am trying to save you from getting yourself killed, since I actually had to do this for work

>>64160379
>>64160382
>>64160403
>1 round of 7.62x39 M43 is 16.5 grams
300 rounds of 7.62x39 M43 is equal to 4.95 kg
>1 round of 7.62x51 M80 is 24 grams
300 rounds of 7.62x51 M80 is equal to 7.20 kg

15 140 gram 20 round aluminum G3 mags is equal to 2.100 kg

10 Early 430 gram 30 round steel AK mags is equal to 4.3 kg
10 330 gram steel reinforced rib AKM 30 round mags is equal to 3.3 kg
10 250 gram steel-reinforced plastic 30 round AK mags is equal to 2.5 kg

The man carrying 15 20 round G3 loaded mags is carry 9.3 kg. If you combine that with the G3A3 (4.38 kg) then you get total weight of 13.68 kilo

The man carrying 10 30 round AK loaded mags carry 9.250 kg, 8.250 kg or 7.450 kg. if you combine that with the AKM (3.3 kg) then you get a total weight of 12.550, 11.550 or 10.750 kg depending on mag. Going by these numbers then the 7.62 AKM only have noticble weight advantage over the G3A3 with equal number of rounds carried using the lighter mags.

Now if we use pic related from wikipedia and then throw in the weight of the gun
>AK-74: 3.07 kg + 9.92 kg (540 rounds) =12.99 kg
>M16A1 2.89 kg + 9.80 kg (600 rounds) =12.69 kg
You have double the firepower (M16) for less, same or slightly higher weight versus the AKM or G3A3.

>>64160802
>>64160806
Pretty much.

>>64160814
cute samefagging zister, i'm sure ak will be relevant again now

>>64160801
Shit isn't even a particularly good dmr by modern standards either .308 BC is trash compared to modern cartridges.

>>64160810
>more likely with nagant revolvers or tokarevs if you dont want to be disingenuous about it
that's for organized killings, for sporadic anti-civilian violence ak is the goto

>>64160824
at least the ak was relevant at one point, cant say that about the g3

>>64160688
>people have eyes, you know
Yeah, and kikes like you have huge noses.

>>64160829
>at least the ak was relevant at one point
yeah, due to one jewish shithole littering the world with them with the help of slave labor.

>>64160835
thank god so i can listen to people like you meltdown about it for hours

>>64160837
you're welcome. this will help russia stay relevant and peddle their propaganda rifle a little longer surely.

>>64160840
id rather russia be relevant, then worship some shitty 50s battle rifle

>>64160834
>I am the only one with the huge nose here
Yes, you made it clear already.
>>64160835
this is actually not that shit of a take, i guess you are here forever now
>>64160840
>its russia's fault that my "battle rifle" is not good
for the accusation that people are obsessed with jews, you sure are obsessed with russians

>>64160850
>no u
Uncle Adolf had a quote about kikes like you.

>>64160849
>id rather russia be relevant
we know. good thing you'll die along with it and ak sooner than later.

too bad all you weren't killed before you were born though.

>>64160850
>for the accusation that people are obsessed with jews
i didn't accuse you of such. are you seeing things again zister?
>you sure are obsessed with russians
how is this obsession if they are the ones making shill threads like this one here? it's either them or their shitskin quislings.

>>64160853
Ill die laughing first, or more likely my arteries clogging.

>>64160856
>shills g3 in a thread about 556 vs 545
>gets rightfully clowned on for battle rifle
>blames the glowies

>>64160873
>shills 7.62x39 in a thread shilling 5.45
>gets mocked and laughed at
>meltdowns and goes full zigger mode
>still deflects to G3 as the last straw grasp

>>64160201
M43 was designed to penetrate armor no shit it doesn't expand as much...

>>64160873
>blames the glowies
actually it's just chug troons. glowies already did their job poisoning the small minds and drawing together all sorts of brown scum

>>64160852
>n-no u
Yeah, jews like you were willing to say he was jewish even.
I never even talked about the ak, just the caliber, I don't even own an ak but you had to do mental gymnastic about it being a super giga organized russian psyop then say >>64160856 that it's not an obsession, its just a fucking american staple, do you go hunting with 5.56 or worse 5.45 if you are jumping straight into the hobby? i suppose in russia they use it for hunting but here?
>>64160876
>I am very gay and confused
use 7.62x39 faggot

>>64160876
I don't even like the cartridge ironically but it is infinitely better than .308 for an assault rifle

>>64160879
>M43 was designed to penetrate armor
it was actually designed to save up on lead, the flat top unhardened steel core penetrates jack shit. notice how it completely fails to tumble in flesh at any reasonable depth, this is the key to its atrocious performance.

>>64160876
>>gets mocked and laughed at
by who just you? Im in shambles

>>64160885
>for an assault rifle
meaningless buzzword, .308 is a much better rifle cartrdige. if you're a shitskin that sprays and prays at every opportunity then you're not hitting anything either way btw.

>>64160882
>>I am very gay and confused
>use 7.62x39 faggot
i will if i ever want to kill myself. then i'll use the 41% cartridge fior gays and trannies.

>>64160898
dont lie you want to kill yourself a little after this thread

>>64160891
i didn't make any of the original G3 related posts, you're just a clown.

>>64160901
no, i'm fully reinforced in my opinion that anyone sucking up to the ak in the last decade is either completely mentally retarded or is a closeted communist.

>>64160887
it was actually the same thing for m855, to save up on lead as well
>>64160893
>a much better rifle cartdige
>only excels in the m24 or 240
>not with battle rifles or some DMRs
>>64160898
No, don't use 5.56, that is a slow death, atleast use something in 308, or a slug, you stupid faggot
>>64160906
>i have an opinion

>>64160913
>it was actually the same thing for m855, to save up on lead as well
not really, M855 doesn't have a full length steel core to give any meaningful savings, it was designed to punch through soviet steel helmets at furter ranges which was a pretty poor attempt to shoehorn the cartridge into a long range role.
>No, don't use 5.56, that is a slow death
>5.56
>slow death
it's like you haven't learned anything about ballistics in this thread despite my efforts educating you.
>i have an opinion
you keep proving me right, you know.

>>64160913
>>only excels in the m24 or 240
>>not with battle rifles or some DMRs
it's a vastly better rifle cartridge in any rifle you can conceive, by any meaningful metric.

>>64160927
>>slow death
I saw it myself, you'd let out a slow groan and say it hurts, twice
>ballistics in this thread despite my efforts educat
experience over your google search, sorry bud
>>i have an opinion
remains true
>>64160930
i didnt ask, sorry, id get the m24 for the 308, not a fucking g3 or a battle rifle, its not that deep

>>64160956
>experience
the only experience you have is sucking miles of cocks
>>i have an opinion
you keep proving me right.
>i didnt ask, sorry, id get the m24 for the 308, not a fucking g3 or a battle rifle, its not that deep
i didn't ask either, i simply stated the facts. sorry not sorry they hurt your pinko feelings.

>>64160965
>i actually have experience sucking cock
>>i still have an opinion, thus it is not fact
>picel is point blank, not muzzle making contact
>only a jew got hurt in that picture

>>64160975
>gets called out on being a know nothing noguns sucking up to the gun of the jewish state
>screeches about jews
every time

>>64160956
>i would get an m24 for .308 not a battle rifle
>argues about why it would be a better infantry rifle/assault rifle cartridge for hours
>truly the finest /k/ommandos

>>64150233 (OP)
>Why is it superior to 5.56?
Because people make a 300+ post thread about how it's only competitor (5.56) is better than the round it replaced.

5.45 chads stay winning!

>>64160913
5.56 is absolutely devastating, what are you talking about? Even during the development, one of the requirements was at least being as effective as .30-06 and .308 within 300y

310
holy shit what happened to this thread overnight, spergout

>>64160982
>shows kenosha jew pic getting held accountable
>a background check is too hard to do
>is a noguns(You)
true, you dont know what you are talking about
>>64160988
Never argued about 308 being a better assault rifle lmao, you did not just think all 7.62 is the same right buddy?
>>64160990
>absolutely devastating
>only maims terrorists wearing no fucking body armor
Wow, truly devastating

>>64160998
Two guys thinking that they’re actually fighting the Russo Ukrainian war right here in this thread, it’s fucking ridiculous. They might be bots frankly

>>64161003
>incoherent schizobabble
at least he dropped the jew thing

>>64161003
>>64159598
>>64159641
The documentation speaks for itself, 5.56 is absolutely lethal, as much if not more so than the .30 cals of its time

>>64160989
less than 50 posts itt are about 5.45, majority of them being ak suckers coping about their irrelevancy much like you are doing.

>>64161008
>>incoherent schizobabble
You just said I argued that 308 is better for assault rifles and you think all 7.62 is the same, there is no way to confuse x39. no taking that back now
>>64161012
>5.56 is much more lethal than 30'06
>the documentation speaks for itself(my opinion)

>>64161024
>You just said I argued that 308 is better for assault rifles and you think all 7.62 is the same
incoherent schizobabble x2

>>64161024
It’s not my opinion, one of the parameters for its development was being as effective if not more effective than .30-06 within 300y. That’s not my opinion that’s fact. As for lethality, that was discovered after. Here’s another paper from the wounding trials

>>64161015
>5.45 so objectively btfo 5.56,7.62 Soviet, and 308 that it's not even a topic of discussion
Truly God's cartridge.

By the way, guess what no one fighting the only European war in the last quarter century is doing? That's right, asking for battle rifles.

>>64161045
>5.45 so objectively btfo 5.56,7.62 Soviet, and 308
lol
>By the way, guess what no one fighting the only European war in the last quarter century is doing? That's right, asking for battle rifles.
yes, SCHV rounds are better for infantry rifles, they almost completely replaced them. we know.

>>64161026
And no, I haven't dropped jews. Not only you cannot read, you confused 7.62x39 with 7.62x51 and mumbled like a retard about how I argued in favor of it.
nice one
>>64161040
>it says they used a goat
>so its still an opinion
Discussing the anatomical difference between a terrorist and a goat is not up for debate, however it was observed that there is attempted reproduction between the two, does not mean they are similar in any way, retard
>>64161045
respectfully op, you are gay
7.62x39 is better

>>64161057
>we know.
Someone tell the LGBT army adopting 6.8 rn.

>>64161067
6.8mm is quite a bit lighter than .308 so it might be worth exploring.
>LGBT army
russia isn't adopting any new ammo currently

>>64161061
>7.62x39 is better
I'm going to snap my fingers and you'll forget you were advocating for a homosexual round with a 200yd effective range.
*Snibbidty snapbitity*

>>64161061
>And no, I haven't dropped jews. Not only you cannot read, you confused 7.62x39 with 7.62x51 and mumbled like a retard about how I argued in favor of it.
>more incoherent schizobabble
>so its still an opinion
is this the jewish communist thing where you pretend everything is an opinion and thereore you can believe whatever you want with no reprecussions? because it doesn't work.
>7.62x39 is better
better at getting its users killed, we know.

>>64161061
Anon these are the wounding trials, of course they’re going to use thin skinned animals with similar profiles to humans and gelatin than actual people. What that doesn’t change is that within the ranges 5.56 is made for, it is about as effective as .308. This isn’t up for debate, it’s just fact. Not to mention you yourself have provided absolutely nothing to dispute what I’m saying. Which makes sense, as you’re just blatantly incorrect

>>64161076
>*Snibbidty snapbitity*
well... okay i-
Woah, not today fedboi op
>>64161069
>russia is not adopting 6.8 but they are
>>64161084
>i still have an opinion
>5.56x45 made Kamala president
>>64161093
>30'06 does the same thing as 5.56

>>64160802
Yes. I actually like the G3 (in part because it's so goddamn fucking stylish, especially with the old wood furniture), but it's funny watching this guy wig out.

>>64161124
>picrel
honestly you might change my mind, that doesnt look as retarded as i thought it did

>>64161113
Yes if you look at the document excerpts I posted, 5.56 was designed to be as effective as .30-06 within 300y.

>>64161005
>right here in this thread
Isn't that the whole board /k/ these days, though

>>64161132
Look, i'll give you an edge, i'll use the 5.56(it was against my will because of a paper i signed at 18) over the 30'06(original point was the 7.62x39), only because of the fucking EPR, before that and any other variant of the 5.56? Not even a chance, even if it has more "effective" range, fucking run and climb up into the gunner's turret with the m2 ready to run
motherfucker, you have to know, that when you hit people with it, it traveled across their fucking body, sometimes not even doing anything to the organs. hit them in the chest? came out of their fucking foot, hit them in the fucking skull cap? it would literally come out of their ass.
these are WW1 fucking ballistics, the only way you'd get your hands on 55a1 or tungsten is if, you are really cool, like me or you are not really cool and you joined the reddit legion in ukraine, or when something finally Happens where you can scavenge for it, which Nothing Ever Happens
do you get it now?

>>64161174
adding onto notes, good fucking luck finding an actual m4/sopmod upper or m16 to shoot it from that wont blow up
theres a reason why the beloved corps wouldnt touch it with a fucking pole(the pole being the m416/m27) to the point where they were declared not interchangeable between those two weapon systems
my point stands
7.62x39 is better for you and I, and anybody else lurking by

>>64161127
They're fucking cool rifles, if you're looking for this sort of gun as a collectible or just for fun, you're probably gonna enjoy it (which is how I also view the AK, incidentally).

It's like with an old Winchester 1894, long outclassed, but it's just such a nice and cool gun to have, to hold, to fire. A kind of rifle not quite of today.

>>64161174
awful larp, imagine shilling a round so hard while never even touching it. pathetic nogunz loser.

>>64161258
>sincere advice is shilling
I accept your concession, any further self abasement is kept for the record, but further invalidating your faggot seethe.
You lost, tranny.

>>64161267
>sincere advice
vomiting buzzwords to cope with being completely and utterly disproven is not advice.

take the advice and take your pills, you cannot stop rambling like a fentanyl nigger

>>64161174
I recognize this mentally ill schizposting style.

Helmetard, is that you?

>>64161272
>>sincere advice
Still is
>vomitting buzzwords to cope
Lets see the ridiculous faggot buzzwords you used in this thread.
>vatnik
>rusnigger
>something gay
>zigger
>tankie
>russian
>the list goes on
Oh wow, sure looks like cope from getting your face dragged across the concrete. make sure you sanitize your axe wound and take your tranny pills. Xister.
>>64161280
>not being reddit is Mentally ill now

>>64161293
>It's really helmetard
Hello there little guy. Still holding up? You've been awfully quiet as of late. Good to see you still refuse to take your lithium and stalk /k/.

>>64161293
>Still is
nothing about it is either sincere or advice, nor are you in position to give one after this thread.

>>64161303
>has been here long enough to know what helmetard is
sounds like hallucinatory cope
>>64161308
>>Still is
as its written
But you were never in a position to give one for browsing /k/ope and this thread proves it
thank you for adding to the archive

>>64161317
Good to see you're getting even less distinguishable from an average cum/chug/ger tourist by the day. You didn't seethe like that about /k/ back in the day, these humiliating russian losses must've taken a toll on your mental well being, or not well being since your lithium is still waiting for you untouched.

>>64161323
>is still obsessed with russians
>anybody not eating turd cake infused with semen is a tourist
>and its taking a volatile toll on your mental well being
to your complete dismay, 7.62x39 is still better

>>64161329
I don't really care about the subject you've attached yourself to this time. It's just funny to me that your shilling for russians has toned down so much. No more su-57 spam, no more F-35 seethe, just some old small arms round parroted as "better" incessantly. It's really quite a change compared to how you used to be. US of A won't notice your efforts to get back at them for booting you from the army like that, you know.

>>64161337
>ITS THE ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSIIIAAANNS!!!!!!
who the fuck are you talking about, i got an honorable
holy fucking neurotic

>>64161350
So you're back to playing ignorance? This doesn't really work after you've already confirmed >>64161317 here that it's you. Not that i'd need your confirmation, your obsessive habits are still as clear as day.

>>64161361
>tranny dialogue
this isnt the marvel movie you thought it was, you just have a shit faggot take, its not that deep, the g3 is not that deep, 5.56 is not that deep, russians chattering inside your head is probably deep and you are going, way too deep

So, are the russians in the room with us right now?

5.56 > 5.45 > .223

>>64161280
Tell me about Helmetard.

>>64161511
could look in the archive to find out, to see if i fit this persona

>>64161526
I'm completely unfamiliar with him. I've been drifting in and out of /k/ for a while because the Ukraine war brings out this kind of absolute mental derangement as you see in this thread.

>>64161542
>helmetard for the genuine user searching the archive
it looks like hes really into fighter jets, maybe he likes the ones we have or the russian ones couldnt be fucked to check which ones. he springs out of nowhere to defend one of them and shits on the other one, is apparently an airman
what it looks like to me that hes just a genuine autist that lives rent free in their heads, somehow this constitutes for a boards' archnemesis, an obsession with planes
i wouldnt know a fucking thing about air assets, closest i did was the 155s so i couldnt genuinely hold my own if it came to this
that is way beyond the average joe's sphere of influence so i dont know why bother

>>64160364
when my father was in the army he said that the recoil of the G3 wasnt noteworthy and they shot pretty accurate. Maybe the reason there is so much hate against the G3 is the average german is a bit bigger and stronger than the NATO twinks to our west?

>>64160515
>on an AK not a G3

itsn ot like the AK was the soviet attempt to recreate the predecessor of the G3

>>64160556
>HK36:
>>obvioussly made under the influence of expired panzer chocolate
>>the side door magazine with plastic 25rd Mannlicher clips and "spoontipped" 4.6mm bullets are the visions of absolute lunatics
>>cyclic rate of an MG42
>>no irons, only a 1960s reflex sight
>>thankfully put out of its misery by the G11 project and for 4.6mm being appreciably inferior to the SS109/M855 cartridge
>>G11 project in turn thankfully put out of its own misery by German reunification

your mixing the G36 with the mp7 up, my dude

>>64160965
I actually thought that those graphics looked wrong and were done by lazy dev. Looks like rittenhouse proved me wrong

>>64161040
the M14 looks a lot more deadly than the ar15 in this test. In a fight its more important if the enemy cant fight back, which the m14 does much faster in comparison and thus makes it more deadly.
I still think that 5,56 weapons are the better choice for the average infantry but I dont agree with the conclusion of the paper

>>64162898
The HK36 is not the G36, nor the MP7, maybe you should try reading it again and consider how much what's in that part doesn't apply or fit for either of them.

The HK36 was an H&K project in the 1960s, for a roller-delayed assault rifle in a new 4.6x36mm cartridge. It had concepts in common with the G11, and H&K opted to abandon the HK36 in favor of the G11's development.

>>64160812
Soviet's issued AKM and AK-74 with 4 magazines only.