Thread 64150422

Would having battle priests on the battle field have had a positive effect on morale durying the crusades?

Armor of Matthäus Lang von Wellenburg, a cardinal of the Holy See under Pope Julius II, "the warrior pope". The Pope also had a habit of leading troops dressed in full armor, which shocked Martin Luther when he saw him in Rome and drew the mockery of Erasmus

>>64150427
>The Pope also had a habit of leading troops dressed in full armor, which shocked Martin Luther when he saw him in Rome and drew the mockery of Erasmus
>shocked Martin Luther
Why?

>>64150464
He was just a huge faggot all around, seething at beauty, chivalry or dignity at every step. He was also a sinner and a huge hypocrite.

The issue with christian radicals tended to be that they had no military experiences, their magical thinking made them a liability in all contexts, and were panicked as easily as they were radicalized

>>64150467
You seem to be educated when it comes the Marthin Luther. Could you elaborate on his faults?

My knowledge on him is limited to him not agreeing with the church and wanting the bible in other languages.

>>64150621
NTA but anon is correct. Martin Luther had some solid points regarding reforms in the church but like most revolutionaries was a holier than thou (ironic) prick and kind of the progenitor of pearl clutching Christian everyman whose mindset holds society back. He may actually have been the first boomer.

We would be living in space right now if it wasn't for Christians

>>64150822
>We would be living in mud huts still if it wasn't for Christians.
ftfy

>>64150467
>>64150621
Luther gets an indulgence.

>>64150822
I dare you to qualify that assertion.

>>64150822
Technology stagnation in the Middle Ages is a myth.

>>64150837
This is equally ridiculous. The Egyptians, Romans, Inca and others all had relatively advanced civilizations without or before Christianity.
The Church has been the benefactor behind many scientific advances, which children and idiots are either ignorant or in denial of. Science was seen as coming closer to God and better understanding His might and wonder.

>>64150422 (OP)
There actually was a number of battle priests during the crusades. Bishop Adhemar was one of the big names during the crusade and is depicted fighting in armor.
>>64150853
I mean, there was some stagnation but that was due to the Fall of Rome more than anything. Christianity was desperately trying to keep the whole thing running while the barbarians marched in.

>>64150422 (OP)
>whip soldiers into a fervor when fighting heathens
>actively reinforces righteousness of the cause when in combat and the going is toughest
>instills discipline because the vigilant conduit to god is standing right next to you
>negative psychological impact on enemies when some madman screams rebukes at them while laying into them with a large mace at the head of a formation of other madmen
I don’t see how it could hurt. Would be very hard to find a priest who would make a good battle priest though because it kind of needs an exemplary person with a certain outlook and temperament.

>>64150822
Ah yes, the church destroyed knowledge by being the only people at that time who were recording knowledge in books.

>>64150422 (OP)
I mean you could always scare the boy conscripts into action by threatening to have them buggered I guess…

>>64150621
You should watch Grzegorz Braun's Luther and the Protestant Revolution documentary, it explains everything, if you find it with eng subs.
https://youtu.be/sfyoYMaShsE
https://vod.braunmovies.com/en/movies/luther-and-the-protestant-revolution-en/?
https://luter.braunmovies.com/en/
https://youtu.be/zeE5b0TWUVw

>>64151036
>the church destroyed knowledge by being the only people at that time who were recording knowledge in books
The word is "hoarded", you could also use "censored".
They bitterly resisted public education that wasn't under their total control and when it was, preferred to abuse children rather than teach them any independent thought.

They have and, to the best of their ability, continue to do immense harm.

>>64150422 (OP)
As real life isn't a video game with stat effects it would entirely depend on the charisma of the respective priest.
There were however banner wagons (there were also examples where the key to the city was exhibited) which served as mobile symbols of prestige for their respective side and also as easily visable rallying points. Sometimes they were acompanied by priests.
There is also the case of Walter Dodde, who was a lay cistercian, who held a rousing speach to rally a contingent of peasants and urban militia during the Battle of Worringen in 1288.
>>64150464
Martin Luther and Pope Julius II. never met. In fact Julius II. was dead for four years when Luther publicised his 95 Theses in 1517. Luther did criticized Julius II. briefly in one text of 1520 - but more so as a symbol of the of the ever secularising, warmongering and wasteful papacy of the 16th century. Something that Luther really disliked as he belonged to the order of of Saint Augustine, which subscriped to the commandment of poverty.
>>64151036
>mace
There is no church law that mandates maces or other blunt weapons as weapons for ecclesiastical men. It seems that this whole trope is based on Odo of Bayeux, who is depicted on the bayeux tapestry wielding a club.

>>64150422 (OP)
Yes, they're called chaplains and religious affairs specialists

>>64151840
chaplains aren't armed i think thats the difference OP is alluding to, however i know of a chaplain who may have been handed an object in the shape of an M4 while their transport was under direct fire, cant confirm or deny

>>64150621
Martin luther was mad at the church for protecting the jews.
The church allowed the jews to exist because the were neccessary for society to function. Because back then usury(profiting from interest and money lending) was a grave sin. So the jews were allowed to exist so that capital projects could be financed without endangering the souls of good christians
Luther was generally upset that the church was fun at all and jealous that jews were able to profit. So he wrote about how bad jews were and reinterpreted the bible so that germanic types could replace jews as moneylenders.

>>64151530
>church bad
>public education good
>me independent thinker
The period in when using parentheses goes inside the parenthetical, retard.

>>64154546
Those are quotation marks, ESL-kun.

>public
In this case means "literally anything not explicitly controlled by the Roman Catholic Church" and yes, public education is a good thing. It's why Protestant countries are full of white, intelligent people, and Catholics are poor, corrupt, brown, and unintelligent.

>>64154553
>Those are quotation marks, ESL-kun.
You got me there but your grammar still sucks.
>In this case means "literally anything not explicitly controlled by the Roman Catholic Church"
I am a product of the American public education system. Having a bunch of secular liberals brainwash children into becoming whatever the fuck is produced today is objectively not good. There is no independent thought produced.
>Protestant countries
Complete myth. You can easily argue many western nations were once "protestant countries." Now they are secular shitholes which are importing the third world at an alarming rate at the behest of monied interests to run out the logical conclusion of the enlightenment. Most people don't notice this because of public education. Unless you really want to pretend the modern world is fine. You're entitled to your delusions.

>>64154620
The third world are the Catholics.

>>64150422 (OP)
I know it worked for the Swedish Karoliner Army

>>64154621
>he mindlessly bleated out as his gay woman pastor preaches about diversity
Yeah.

>>64154648
sorry homo, my straight male pastor doesn't allow women to speak at all in church.
>diversity
lol

>>64154648
>his gay woman pastor preaches about diversity
I don't have one and I've never met one. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I think they're incredibly rare. Gay male pastors are incredibly common in every denomination, though becoming less so, but I think a Roman Catholic criticising anyone for that would be throwing stones in a glass house. My vicar's wife makes nice lamingtons though.
>NTA, but a protestant.

>>64154508
This is not it. Luther had a lot of issues with the Church, and usury is not the crime you think it is. Usury is still a crime, and a sin, in every part of Christendom because modern loans (in Christendom) are not full recourse loans, and usury is the sin of charging interest on full recourse loans. If you doubt this then you are a turbonigger who as never read Aquinas.

Calling the loans that happen in modern Christendom usury is a Muslim thing because they have similarly named sin (iirc usufruct) that's a hybrid between the Jewish sin of rabbat and Christian sin of usury, and Christian lending would be in breach of it, and the closest English translation for their sin is usury, so they use that.

>>64154653
>sorry homo, my straight male pastor doesn't allow women to speak at all in church.
Thats nice. I don't believe you.

>>64154661
>I've never met one
I have.
>but I think they're incredibly rare
Not at all. It has been a growing trend and actively encouraged in many non-denominational "churches" which are essentially political rallies pretending to be faith.
>but I think a Roman Catholic criticising anyone for that would be throwing stones in a glass house
The Church, for all its faults, does not even tolerate the concept of a woman becoming a priest or gay marriage. This cannot be said for most Protestant denominations.
>My vicar's wife makes nice lamingtons though.
Had to look up what that is. Sounds delicious.

>>64154695
>non-denominational "churches"
I don't see anyone from them, so perhaps you are right. I don't think this is a criticism against organised and denominational protestant churches though.
>The Church, for all its faults, does not even tolerate the concept of a woman becoming a priest or gay marriage.
? I was talking about male priests who are gay. They are legion in churches of all stripes. How many are practicing gays I have no clue, and nearly all are somewhat closetted. The old ladies in most denominations think they're especially lovely and sweet, from my experience, but it could just be that they all have non-functional gaydar or are closetted lesbians with beards themselves.
>delicious
Yes. They can be a bit dry. The rare skill, I think, is in making a suitably moist, but also rigid and light, sponge. My wife is a better baker in general, but her lamingtons aren't nearly as good. I have to be very careful not to let her suspect that I think that, because I don't want to be forced to either hurt her feelings or lie about it.

>>64154763
>I don't see anyone from them, so perhaps you are right.
There are 4 down the street from me. I'm not kidding. Keep in mind I'm American so I live in a looney bin. Even then the denominational ones have pride flags out and one of the guys I work with is a former member of an Episcopalian church with a woman paster. It is just odd.
>I was talking about male priests who are gay.
And I was talking about gay woman priests preaching diversity. You said stones in glass houses and gay male pastors. I am saying the Roman Catholic Church does not tolerate the concept of a woman becoming priests or gay marriage. Both are allowed under many Protestant denominations organized and denominational or the opposite. There are faults with Roman Catholicism it but a cohesive tradition and philosophical foundation are not those.

>>64151036
No. Because Priests would use divine authority to countermand Generals. It's a disaster waiting to happen. The risk of some zealot leading your men on some batshit insane mission is too great.

Now that I see a catholictard and a protestard beefing it out in near time: why have I never seen someone sperging out about the thirty-year war on here

>>64157845
>Now that I see a catholictard and a protestard beefing it out in near time
Wdym?
>why have I never seen someone sperging out about the thirty-year war on here
There is the occasional thread about the 30 Years War but most people just have a barely surface level understanding of this conflict and they generally mix it up with the previous wars of religion. And generally this conflict was barely about religious matters and secular ambitions quickly overtook in importance.

>>64150422 (OP)
>get out of your rented cybertruck wearing that after it finally comes to a stop

>>64157900
>>Now that I see a catholictard and a protestard beefing it out in near time
>Wdym?
fucked up while editing. it should have been in near *real* time

But you are most likely correct. there are very few people, even amongst the war and history autists, that are interested in anything after rome and before the napoleon wars. I was just thinking about your random effort post about the rwanda civil war and stuff and how I have never seen on for the 30 year war.
It could be quite interesting because iirc it was the first real land war that saw use of black powder and it shaped europe and subsequently the american continents for centuries

>>64157948
>there are very few people, even amongst the war and history autists, that are interested in anything after rome and before the napoleon wars.
how new r u
>It could be quite interesting because iirc it was the first real land war that saw use of black powder
is this nigger serious? there has to be a limit to ignorance but i guess it doesn't apply to ESL thirdies.

>>64157948
>it should have been in near *real* time
I still don't know what event you are alluding to.
Anyways...
>there are very few people, even amongst the war and history autists, that are interested in anything after rome and before the napoleon wars
I wouldn't go this far. It just happens to be that many threads that cover those topics quickly devolve into shitty meme fests and this deteres effort posts and genuine discussions imo
>your random effort post about the rwanda civil war and stuff and how I have never seen on for the 30 year war.
I've never made ony about the rwanda civil war but I have made multiple that cover the 30 Years War. The last one I did was this one: https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17612858/#q17617126 - I mainly did the post chains that are longer than two texts.
>It could be quite interesting because iirc it was the first real land war that saw use of black powder
There were many wars in the 16th century that were dominated by gunpowder weapons. From the ottoman expansion into the Balkans and Hungary to the Italian Wars.

>>64150616
True for untrained masses which is why some Crusades were incredibly mediocre in results but a lot of clergymen at least had an education that made them develop some levels of logic and critical thinking.