Thread 64150653

You can't fucking see them in low light conditions, even just being out in the woods on a cloudy afternoon they become useless. You can't see them against a dark colored target. It pisses me off that this is becoming standard.

>>64150653 (OP)
skill issue

>>64150653 (OP)
If you are focusing on the rear sight you already fucked up

That's what weapon lights are for, in any low light scenario the moment you turn on that light it's not going to matter what type of sights you are using, they are going to become a blackout silhouette

>>64150730
That's what I do when I want to shoot accurately. I don't just do rapid fire at human silhouettes from 7 yards all the time like YouTube shooters.

>>64150744
handguns are for shooting humans at 7 yards

>>64150743
In extremely low light at close range that works. At dusk at longer ranges that does not work. I also do not like weapon lights on my carry pistols.

>>64150744
Yeahhhhh that's weird and you shouldn't do that. Kudos for shooting beyond 7 yards but I can't think of a single time you should focus on your rear sights. How long have you been shooting?

>>64150759
A handgun is gun that you can carry with you at all times and is for doing anything that you would ever do with a gun.

>>64150766
I've been shooting for 20 years. I routinely train at 50 and 100 yards.

>>64150763
I can see that being an issue, but at the same time, working with a handgun with irons in low light past the ranges where something like an X300 is going to effectively outline your sights, seems like a scenario where you're not bringing enough gun for that fight

>>64150809
Unfortunately I cannot pull up a magical inventory like an RPG character and select any massive weapon I want while time stands still around me. Handguns are what I carry, handguns are what I train with.

>>64150653 (OP)
>becoming standard
Blacked out iron sights were more standard in the past than they are now. Every old gun has blacked out iron sights both front and rear (i.e. 1911, revolvers). What are you talking about?

>>64150780
20 years of doing it wrong is impossible to correct now. Just don't buy blacked out sights if you don't like them.

>>64150823
But that was just because they were too lazy and stupid to make them any better. It wasn't intentional. In the old days almost every new gun out of the box needed shit tons of work to even begin to be useful.

>>64150831
It is not possible to accurately engage targets beyond 20 yards in dim woods with black rear sights.

>>64150839
It's only impossible for you cause you've got 20 years of doing it wrong baked in.

>>64150836
Jeff Cooper preferred blacked out sights to anything on the market.

>>64150848
Jeff Cooper also preferred the weaver stance and considered the isosceles the wrong way of holding a handgun

>>64150855
But can you shoot as well as Jeff Cooper?

>>64150831
I know all about the "focus on the front sight" meme. I was reading Ayoob right from the beginning. That technique works well for rapidly engaging large targets at close range. But that style of shooting isn't very difficult to begin with, you do not need to waste live ammunition for that type of training unless you're competing at a high level. What is difficult is engaging targets at long range, so that's where the brunt of my live ammunition training goes. Proper sight picture is just as important here as it is for a rifle.

Get some white nail polish and paint it on the rear sights.

>>64150847
I guess every precision target shooter in the world is also doing it wrong.

>>64150771
>A handgun ... is for doing anything that you would ever do with a gun.
idk anon I think that a handgun is not going to be very useful for laying down suppressive fire, anti-materiel, or shooting past 300yd

>>64150864
I did this with my front sight too to change the color from white to bright orange. Just drop a bit of nail polish in there, let it dry then put some transparent nail polish over it to protect it. Held for years at this point.

>>64150872
You're right, there are significant limitations to what a handgun can do. But it's more like 100 yards and not 7 yards.

>>64150815
what gun do you carry? a tlr-7 doesnt add any length to a compact handgun

>>64150860
You've been doing it wrong for so long it's impossible to talk sense into you so I'm not even going to try.
This is the equivalent of wanting to see the ghostring instead of having it ghost out on an ar.
Let's put it like this ak sights are basically pistol sights and they are blacked out.

>>64150883
Most of the time a G19. I just don't like the added bulk and weight of a light and I don't find it necessary. I already EDC a flashlight so I'm not handicapped in the unlikely event that I have to engage a target in conditions so dark I can't identify my target.

>>64150890
I'm sure your 50 yards Glock groups are fantastic.

>>64150823
Heh, I remember buying a pinned&recessed era SW29 that had the sights blacked. Someone really, literally, actually took a sharpie and painted them over.

>>64150744
Target focus and dont even look at your sights, theyre only there for visual confirmation of alignment. I regularly shoot c zone targets at 100 yards with this method. The 1980s 3 dot whites are incredibly slow and less accurate than target focused aim.

>>64150876
Did you also learn the trick from Paul Harrell, like I did?

>>64150904
This advice flies in the face of what everyone knows about using iron sights. You focus on the front sight, not the target.

>>64150653 (OP)
Guy, go shoot more. A lot more. You're going to get called a faggot for your lack of knowledge. Hit the range every week for a few months or shoot some shotguns and you'll probably figure it out.

>>64150893
Many lawyers advise this. Pointing your gun at someone is aggravated assault and can put you in prison for 7 years. It's best to check dark areas with a handheld light, not a weapon mounted light.

>>64150910
I've shot thousands of rounds of 9mm every year for over ten years.

>>64150904
Nobody could accurately engage a target at 100 yards without a very precise sight picture. That is physically impossible.

>>64150933
See
>>64150890

Gods peed

>>64150763
>do not like weapon lights on my carry pistols.
Skill issue.

>>64150973
Front sight and target focus are techniques for rapidly engaging large targets at close range.

>>64150991
Both of those apply to rifles which make your pistols long range look like a joke.

>>64150997
Rifles have much longer effective range so 50-100 yards is "close" range for a rifle. You are NOT a long range precision pistol shooter and you have no idea what you are talking about.

>>64151018
Rifles have with blacked out rear sights and its the norm. If you were right about blacked out rear being unusable why would it be acceptable on a gun meant to be shot longer distances?

>>64151027
It's not acceptable. That is why sight upgrades were seen as mandatory in the era before scopes for any rifles meant to be used with precision at long range. Even in the early 19th century it was common practice to keep sights polished for maximum brightness and marksmen were extremely particular about the designs of rear sights. The only style known to use the front sight focus philosophy were peep sights, which were kind of like ghost ring sights except with an extremely small aperture, and even these were not really seen as offering maximum accuracy potential. It has always been a truism in shooting that you need a good sight picture to shoot accurately. That is why optics exist. Front sight and target focused shooting are techniques for speed, not for precision.

>>64150653 (OP)
It's a target sight thing, problem is damn near all modern sights are coarse as fuck so it's really just cargo culting. If you want target sights in the current year without competition restrictions, you may as well just get a dot and a rest so you can really dial it in. Actual target sights are going to cost you an arm and a leg.

>>64150901
Hey if something's catching your eye and fucking up your focus you deal with it.

>>64150836
>they were too lazy and stupid
No dumbass, it's because sights just weren't used at close range. If you were using them at all you were taking a longer shot and therefore wanted finer sights.

>>64151050
>Even in the early 19th century it was common practice to keep sights polished for maximum brightness
Are you retarded? a polished sight is the exact opposite of what you want.
Using a lighter to darken your sights with carbon is what people did.

>>64151060
I don't care, you're just another "7 yarder". You have no conception of what handguns are capable of or how to unlock that potential. I do from experience.

>>64151066
Theres really no point in trying to reason with somebody whose been doing it wrong for over a decade. Bad habits are engraved in you.

>>64151083
Why do optics exist if you don't need to use sights at all?

>>64151087
>man who fundamentally misunderstands shooting with irons immediately gives up on them and installs a scope or reddot.

>>64151193
Didn't answer the question. You think sight alignment is not important. The popularity of optics contradicts that. It turns out the gun has to be fucking pointing at the target in order to hit the target, who would have thought. And you cannot show me a single excerpt from any shooting instructor or expert anywhere where they advocate your pistol shooting style in any context other than close range defensive shooting.

>>64151224
https://youtu.be/XPtTs42sVAM

>>64150855
Yes

I only train isosceles for when I'm wearing armor

>>64150653 (OP)
I just like night sights, even if some homo says theyre not the peak optimal choice because a competition shooter they like uses some other getup

>>64151236
Not watching a 3 hour video. What range does he shoot at? 90% of people shoot handguns exclusively at less than ten yards. Gun magazine writers shoot handguns at 7 yards in slow fire and then call them "accurate". The vast majority of people view handguns as being a weapon for conversation distance like a sword. I don't. I do not do live fire training at less than 25 yards. Dry fire is sufficient to maintain proficiency for engaging close range targets. I shoot at 25, 50, and 100 yards. Survival shooting, guerilla shooting, and anti-mass shooter tactics are my domain and the focus of my training. I don't give a shit what someone thinks if they've spent most of their training hours and rounds shooting massive sheets of cardboard at 7 yards.

>>64151240
Why would you wear armor that compromises your freedom of motion?

>>64150872
Maybe you're just using the wrong handguns

>>64150909
>You focus on the front sight, not the target.
Again, this is advice from the 1980s it works but its not fast and its not accurate. All you have to to is stare at what you want to hit, take your support hand thumb and use it to point at what you want to hit. Sights come up in your peripheral vision, more or less on target. At this point you can make slight adjustment to get them where you want. The key is you do not adjust focus from the target to the sights. Do this over and over and over in dry fire practice. Now load up and do live fire. We're not interested in sight alignment, that will happen automatically when you train index. You want the gun to come to the same place each time you come out of a holster, low ready, off a table whatever. This is how people shoot dots, it applies exactly the same as irons. There's a ton of videos explaining this method.

>>64151574
I don't know. It sounds like you're describing point shooting. Iron sights aren't there to be stared over.

>>64151574
> Needs a "method" for hitting a 2 foot target at 7 yards

>>64151614
No, it is target focused shooting.
>>64151765
0 reading comprehension, this works at any distance

>>64151880
Yeah, it works at 7 yards, and even all the way out to 11 yards!

>>64151765
NTA but try hitting a 2 foot target at 7 yards 6 times within 2 seconds

>>64150839
Get a red dot

>>64150744
Get a red dot

>>64151995
If my first shot hits where I'm aiming then every subsequent shot will hit the same spot as fast as I can pull the trigger.

>>64152022
If you had a red dot, then while staring at the target you can see your red dot appear where you want it for confirmation that you’re where you want to be and then while you’re shooting you can watch the dot streak up and down. If you’re not wear you want to be you can adjust without focusing on anything but the target

>>64150763
>at dusk at longer ranges
you fucked up being out in the dark without your rifle. Your pistol is for engagements of under 30 yards, and fighting your way to your rifle.

>>64152064
I have extensive experience with red dots. I don't like them on carry guns. I don't need them to rapidly engage a close range target, and I don't need them to make a precise long range shot either. It's just another gadget that can break or run out of batteries and contributes to the concealability footprint of the weapon. I would only use one if I were a competition shooter.

>>64152066
I don't carry rifles. I don't train with or care about any weapon I can't conceal and incorporate into a backpacking system.

>>64150653 (OP)
Good thing there are a thousand options and you can get whatever you like instead of whatever some idiot on the internet tells you to get.

>>64150743
Sights are for aiming. Weapon lights are for working in a group. Solo its a fucking larp and a retarded one at that. Its low iq lemming nonsense.
>>muh home defense
No, stop being retarded. If pistol light is your home defense plan enjoy being dead or in prison wishing you were.
>>muh target identification
You already lost
>>muh ambient light
You already lost
>>muh low light s/d carry
You already lost again
Seriously so many fucking tard level assholes with lights on pistols

>>64152796
Just blast at noises in the dark, that's a good plan