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Thread 64153436

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Anonymous No.64153436 >>64153444 >>64153445 >>64153541 >>64153560 >>64153710 >>64154364 >>64154439 >>64154574 >>64154608 >>64155969 >>64156924 >>64157082
PSA (H&R) is making an M14
The only way I can see this thing being competitive against the others on the market is if they're able to sell it for significantly cheaper. And either way it'll still likely be ~$1,200. I'd be genuinely amazed if it's priced under $1,000.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6LZhzehNDc
Anonymous No.64153444 >>64153513 >>64154346 >>64156539 >>64157159 >>64162773
>>64153436 (OP)
Bet I won’t be able to order it in nj. For a company that wants to put guns in the hands of as many Americans as possible they sure are cucking out real easy. They won’t even ship to your ffl. You have to find one of two psa dealers in the state.

It’s incredibly easy for companies tos hip noncomplaint guns to any ffl who can make it compliant. Fuck these cocksucker in North Carolina . Literally making it harder to buys. Gun,because they are scared of doing actual litigating that will help gun rights.
Anonymous No.64153445
>>64153436 (OP)
I wonder what fuckups they will have on this throwaway rifle project?
Anonymous No.64153458 >>64153478
>has no history of m14 pattern rifles
>has no sub companies that made them either
If they pull off a good gun at a good price that can BEAT the m1a I’ll buy it
Anonymous No.64153478 >>64153497 >>64153727 >>64154585 >>64155037
>>64153458
They acquired the company that had H&R's old IP and tooling from when they made them. This might have included a stash of original parts as well.

That said, building M14s properly is very hard. Back when H&R had government contracts to do it, they couldn't get it right. The knowledge to do so is out there nowadays, but if PSA treats it the way they treat their AR builds, people are going to be paying a lot of money for the privilege of being guinea pigs.
Anonymous No.64153497 >>64153504 >>64153505
>>64153478
>but if PSA treats it the way they treat their AR builds, people are going to be paying a lot of money for the privilege of being guinea pigs.
Man these things will be shilled left right and center and then normal people are gonna have literal pieces of unacceptable shit.
Anonymous No.64153504
>>64153497
The cycle of PSA. Should've bought polytech or norinco
Anonymous No.64153505
>>64153497
I'm not lining up to buy one. I got my battle rifle needs met already.
Anonymous No.64153513 >>64153531
>>64153444
m14s are banned by name and design in new jersey
Anonymous No.64153531 >>64154450 >>64158474
>>64153513
I love how we are living restricted by rules that were made in the 60s. They literally only banned the m1 carbine because black people stormed an m1 carbine factory during the Plainfield riots in the 60s
Anonymous No.64153541 >>64153677
>>64153436 (OP)
Still mad as hell about the STG-44
Anonymous No.64153560 >>64153666 >>64153677 >>64154597
>>64153436 (OP)
all of the bullshit side projects instead of the stg44 that would have sold out every batch of production
Anonymous No.64153666 >>64153682 >>64153752
>>64153560
It wouldn’t have sold out. They are also impossible to make a reproduction for which is why they couldn’t do it. They weren’t the first company to try
Anonymous No.64153677 >>64163490
>>64153541
>>64153560
What actually happened with that? I remember them trying to pass off some bullshit about manufacturing being difficult. Now, I don't know shit about machining or gunsmithing, but I can't imagine it would be THAT hard to take an STG-44, strip it, make whatever measurements you need to, and make one yourself if you have the means to do so..
Anonymous No.64153682 >>64153700 >>64153711
>>64153666
>They are also impossible to make a reproduction for which is why they couldn’t do it.
Why?
Anonymous No.64153700 >>64153706
>>64153682
he is a retard, it is possible to make a reproduction, a german company is selling true replica of STG-44, MKB-42 and FG-42 in their original caliber for around 5k€ each.
BUT, all of their guns are handcrafted and assembled, so yes, you can have replicas of ancient guns but the problem comes when you have to do mass production of them and reducing the amount of fuck ups each machines that are present in the production process then everything become slow, tedious and incredibly costy, even more when you are trying to build a gun which all factories got annihilated more than 80 years ago.
Anonymous No.64153706
>>64153700
To add to this it doesn't help that PSA bought the idea from a literal grifter who likely had WAY less work done than he said. PSA is in their degenerate "buy up other people" phase, so they lack the ability to make something that others haven't completed work.
Anonymous No.64153710 >>64153722 >>64153734
>>64153436 (OP)
>AR's on average come down in price, but the lower end is still 400-500 range
>mini 14's just go up and up and up
Whyd they become so expensive?
Anonymous No.64153711
>>64153682
Having to invest in an absolute shit ton of dies and presses, both are really expensive start-up cost. Each stamped part needs its own dies, and those have to be dead-nuts perfect or all you'll produce is scrap.
It's very possible, but so fucking expensive to get even just one off the line, that a company doubts whether sales will cover the investment in tooling
Anonymous No.64153722 >>64153732 >>64153787
>>64153710
Nobody buys them. Do you have any idea how basic basic economics work?
You have to train more people to make them.
Materials cost more because you don't buy in bulk.
List goes on and on.
Anonymous No.64153727 >>64153748
>>64153478
What's wrong with PSA ARs? They perform like milk spec in my experience.
Im sure these M1s will perform like the original mil specs. And I'm sure little feminized boys will cry because they dont shoot one moa not that these scrawny kids could utilize that accuracy anyway.
Anonymous No.64153732
>>64153722
>barely anyone buys it
>keep raising price
>now definitely no one will buy it
>sits in inventory forever and no one buys
Nice plan
Anonymous No.64153734 >>64155089
>>64153710
Literally nobody but hobbyists and 70+ yo buy mini 14s,
3x more expensive
Require gay optics rails
Heavy
Need to dump more money into 1500$ rifle for it to be half as capable as a PA15.
meanwhile the ar15 continues to be literally the best platform so more people make them, making them cheaper. Economy of scale ig idk
Anonymous No.64153748 >>64153760 >>64153764
>>64153727
Absolutely nothing. People are on crack if they think these cheap ARs aren't enough for 99% of buyers.
The cost of an AR has probably been at rock bottom for going on 7 or 8 years now, just inflation caused a little bump

Seriously we are in the golden age of firearms when a quality handgun that won't explode costs $300 and a rifle that will work for probably 10000+ rounds costs $400.
Anonymous No.64153752 >>64153755 >>64153765
>>64153666
if making stamped aks is possible then what the fuck is it ablut stg44 that would make it impossible
Anonymous No.64153755 >>64153898
>>64153752
nigger have you seen an stg44 technical drawing?
Anonymous No.64153760
>>64153748
Now that guns have been pigeonholed into singular form factors, they can go of the way of the lightbulb behind closed doors
Anonymous No.64153764 >>64153869 >>64155539
>>64153748
Genuinely for 800$ you can an extremely capable AR15 + an optics cut threaded barrel full sized pistol that will be completely reliable. We literally live in the renaissance of poor people guns but people have a superiority complex and feel the need to spend more money for insanely diminished returns
Anonymous No.64153765
>>64153752
We decided as a society that we’re too good to do manufacturing and killed off all of our tool and die makers.
Anonymous No.64153778 >>64157104
>a gun notorious for needing pixie dust sprinkled on it to run right
>will need to be at a significantly lower price point from springfield to sell
lol
Anonymous No.64153787 >>64158231
>>64153722
>Do you have any idea how basic basic economics work?
Do you?

If nobody is buying your product because it's too expensive, what does keeping the price the same or making it even higher solve? Why would you keep making a product that isn't selling?
Anonymous No.64153788 >>64153800 >>64153897
aren't the most "good" ones $3000+ on the market rn?
Anonymous No.64153800 >>64153897
>>64153788
2000$ for the bare minimum, then about 400-500$ to make it actually enter the 21st century because why would it come stock with what you need
Anonymous No.64153869
>>64153764
It is also brand recognition like anything else. I can understand if some people want to recreate historical pieces, but shelling out for something like Knight's Armament I don't get.
Anonymous No.64153897
>>64153788
>>64153800
The lowest I've ever seen them go is like $1600-$1800.
Anonymous No.64153898 >>64154589
>>64153755
its not like you cant make some design changes those guns were not suppose to.be stg clones but essentailly modern iterations of the stg
the were supposed to have barrel nuts and handgiard like ar15s
Anonymous No.64154346
>>64153444
PSA is retarded if you live in a shit state, I tried ordering a H&R lower because muh rollmark to Maryland which is perfectly legal but they wouldn't ship until I asked my FFL to order one for me.
Anonymous No.64154364
>>64153436 (OP)
i always thought i wanted an m14 because they look nice, but after i got a mini14, i dont think i'd ever want to buy one for more than 1k (and even then it'd be a tough sell to me) which is never going to happen lol.
Anonymous No.64154439 >>64154969
>>64153436 (OP)
>H&R still spiritually exists
Make some more kino dirt cheap plinker DA/SA revolvers you nigs
Anonymous No.64154450
>>64153531
>They literally only banned _________ because black people
True and I'm tired of having to have my rights lessened by lessers
Anonymous No.64154574
>>64153436 (OP)
If their AKs are any indication of how things are going to work they are going to be shilled by every guntuber and their mother and everyone is going to shell out for one only to find out down the road PSA hasnt the first fucking clue how to build a rifle that didnt start from a box of OEM parts. literal monkeys worse than centurys finest must do the engineering over there because they rush into these dumb projects and cut every corner expecting everyone to just be ok with the shit original products and think no one who bought a psa ak, or jakl, or whateverthefuck actually shoots it enough to see the issues.

tldr save up for a fulton m1a and stop giving your money to these stupid, lazy niggers
Anonymous No.64154584
They fixed JAKL yet?
Anonymous No.64154585
>>64153478
The H&R that they bought out has about as much connection to the original company as Springfield Armory has to the original government arsenal. It's just a rollmark to slap on half assed PSA garbage.
Anonymous No.64154589 >>64155501
>>64153898
And that's why they were gay and not worth being made.
Anonymous No.64154597
>>64153560
lmao no
too expensive for your average PSA customer
looks nothing like a real STG for customers who want an actual replica
classic case of trying to please everyone and pleasing no one
Anonymous No.64154608 >>64157515
>>64153436 (OP)
>I really wish I had a low quality semiauto replica of the worst firearm ever adopted by the US military!
Anonymous No.64154969
>>64154439
Based. I just bought one of their old top-break 22 sportsmans.
Anonymous No.64155037
>>64153478
All of H&R's tooling and parts went to Taiwan back in the late 60s.
Anonymous No.64155089
>>64153734
Mini 14s are also popular in ban states
Anonymous No.64155501
>>64154589
you will never have an stg then
Anonymous No.64155539
>>64153764
Diminished returns are still returns, poor.
Anonymous No.64155969
>>64153436 (OP)
If it happens it'll be garbage.
Not because it's PSA but because it's an M14. Probably the worst small arm adopted by the US military during the 20th century. No good reason for anyone to buy it. This is a stupid idea on PSA's part and I hope they drop the idea like a cobalt source and run from it just as fast.
Anonymous No.64156539 >>64157061 >>64157108 >>64161078
>>64153444
Why should Palmetto State Armory fight for the gun rights of NJ citizens when it is you morons that elect the politicians that pass your retarded gun laws ?
Anonymous No.64156924
>>64153436 (OP)
I would've honestly preferred they start out with an M1 carbine instead.
Or maybe this is actually better, because they can fuck up the action on this one, then iron it out for the carbine, so there isn't another shitty flavor of Universal tier M1C out there floating around?
Anonymous No.64157061
>>64156539
Yeah I’m sure it’s the republican gun owners who elect these people and not the 3 million foreigners that have been imported in the past 10 years.

Also it’s not even fighting every gun company will ship a noncompliant gun to an ffl.except the one gun company that is supposedly explicitly fighting for gun rights.you don’t see the lack of logic there???
Anonymous No.64157082 >>64158481
>>64153436 (OP)
Sounds awesome. Will it have 6MOA like the Springfield Armory does, lmao?

If it doesn't i might pick one up. It's a fckn classic
Anonymous No.64157104
>>64153778
To be fair the springfield is fckn expensive for what it is.
Anonymous No.64157108
>>64156539
>Why would the pro second amendment company not fight for gun rights
I'd say it's all a grift and a facade to make money but whatever
Anonymous No.64157159 >>64157495
>>64153444
Lol you remind of this dumbfuck that came to my old job trying to buy a gun with a (out of state) California license and flipped shit when we told him we couldn’t.
Anonymous No.64157495
>>64157159
yeah thats the same as having a gun shipped to an ffl to make it compliant which is normal everywhere in the country.
Anonymous No.64157515
>>64154608
Hey, it’s not an M7
Anonymous No.64158231 >>64158261 >>64160649
>>64153787
>what does keeping the price the same or making it even higher solve?
It covers the cost of manufacturing + profit margin + tip.
If you already gave up on the design you can drop prices to clear inventory and cut your losses by never producing it again. But if you plan to make another batch next year, you have to charge enough money to keep that production line open. Doing maintenance on the machines costs money, tooling wears out and replacing it costs money, the people who make the damned thing cost money to remain employed.
This just reminds me of the /biz/ poster who had to be told that someone else had to buy the stocks when you sell them. He thought you just clicked "Sell" and poof the stocks went back to the stock market and money appeared on his account.
Anonymous No.64158261
>>64158231
>This just reminds me of the /biz/ poster who had to be told that someone else had to buy the stocks when you sell them. He thought you just clicked "Sell" and poof the stocks went back to the stock market and money appeared on his account.

I mean we all start out not knowing much, but I'm still wheezing at that.
Anonymous No.64158474
>>64153531
>they stole M2 carbines
>blacks use them to shoot up police department and vehicles
>the National Guard with M113's and .50's had to save the police
>government says that they'll do a 100% amnesty no questions asked return
>blacks
>FUCK NAW MAN WE BEEZ RULING THIS MOTHERFUCKER NOW
>national guard and police begin house to house search
>Jewish lawyers
>TALMUDIC DEMONIC SCREECHING
The more I read about the "Civil Rights" era the more I hate.
Anonymous No.64158481
>>64157082
>6MOA
The M1A isn't a FAL though....
WhatGripWhatStock !!iWd8rTeW/1k No.64158803 >>64158817
The most tragic aspect of this nonsense is PSA is taking legit historical parts made with real tools by real gunmakers, and wasting them on their low grade toy consumer slop.
Anonymous No.64158817 >>64158823
>>64158803
That's what truly sickens me. As it stands the only fresh M14 clones on the market are Sprinshit's abomination and Bula's overpriced work. It's a real tragedy the Chinese import ban happened because polytechs and norincos were legitimately the best thing to happen for M14s. Wild that the commies made them better than our commercial companies did but that's how it be. I want to hope for PSA's attempt, I really want more of the BR triumvirate to make a return but knowing them they're gonna fuck it up in ways not even my inebriated mind can concoct, and mind you I'm a creative soul when drunk. Also thank God for spell correct otherwise this'll all be unintelligible. Also fuck you tripfag, almost forgot to say that as is tradition
Anonymous No.64158823 >>64158841 >>64160703
>>64158817
But why do you think that. All the recent H&R products have been good and recieved nothing but praise.
Anonymous No.64158841 >>64158891
>>64158823
First of all I'm drunk. If it weren't through technology you wouldn't be able to understand me. So my thought process is compromised. However despite H&R putting good out ARs the M14 is such a radically different beast that I feel confident in saying H&R, as they currently exist, has next to no experience manufacturing M14s and the M14 is such a mess of a rifle they're damn near guaranteed to fuck it up. The AR is akin to the VW beetle, just about everyone and their dad knows them every which way to the point the goddamn sand Canadians could make them. The M14 is like an old caddy back when they made their own bespoke engines, you had to be there making them to understand how the fuck it works
Anonymous No.64158891 >>64160703
>>64158841
And I should say, before you ask how the chinks managed to copy it so well, you should know the Chinese national pastime is copying other people's ideas 1:1 so it's no shock to me they can make a cromulent M14 clone despite lacking the institutional knowledge
Anonymous No.64160649 >>64161037
>>64158231
It doesn't cover anything if you're not selling the product itself, which is the point of contention here.
Resident Wumbologist !!aZ2iZUdyUbF No.64160703
>>64158823
Anon is correct. Building M14s is pretty straightforward on paper but the devil is very much in the details. Things have to align correctly and tolerance stacking is an absolute bitch, this is true of any Grand derived design because the whole system is somewhat like stepping stone between bolt actions being converted to self loaders and modern automatic rifles. It does work, and it can work very well indeed, but an absolutely inordinate degree of care must be taken to do it right and to do so consistently across serial production is a nightmare task. This is very unlike an AR-15 where tolerance stacking can happen, but the design is fundamentally better to where you can get away with lots of small mistakes without messing up the final product too much.
For instance if you have upper/lower play on an AR you can just shim it. Even if you don't fix it all the accuracy is determined by the upper so most shooters won't notice, and there's enough leeway with hammer drop/magazine alignment/buffer tube to upper fitment that it'll work fine.
If the stock on an M14 is loose you absolutely have to fix it or you'll get shotgun patterning. Changing out a trigger group can affect fitment and therefore accuracy. Things on an AR are more compartmentalized and modular.
>>64158891
They didn't do it perfectly. They were notorious for soft bolts, horrible fitment, crappy barrels and awful chu wood stocks that are worthless on an M14. The two redeeming features are the price point and hammer forged steel receivers. Even then, some of their forged receivers were done wrong and ended up too brittle.

M14 builders typically buy polytech rifles and strip them down to the receiver, using either custom or USGI parts for everything else.
Anonymous No.64161037
>>64160649
>It doesn't cover anything if you're not selling the product itself, which is the point of contention here.
But if a product exists, and it's in current production, then it is selling.
The contention is that if Mini-14s dropped in price, people would buy them. But the reality is that even a cheap Mini-14 has less mass market appeal than a similar priced AR. Investing in the production capacity to pump out Mini-14s in an already saturated self-loading 5.56 market is most likely going to result in a ton of wasted money and unsold inventory taking up space in the warehouse.
So the Mini-14 production has to be scaled to people who want a Mini-14. They're not interested in something else. They want it like some people want a Desert Eagle because of videogames or a Jericho 941 because of Cowboy Bebop.
What I'm trying to get at is that not every product can survive a race to the bottom. If you make Mini-14s so cheap people would actually reconsider an AR purchase, they couldn't recoup the costs. But Mini-14s can survive as a niche purchase with a matching price.
Anonymous No.64161078 >>64162769
>>64156539
Plenty of other sites ship AR's and AK's to NJ but for whatever fucking reason PSA refuses to ship to NJ, pretty gay
Anonymous No.64162769
>>64161078
Good, it makes me like PSA more.
Anonymous No.64162773
>>64153444
>in nj
Move or join the mob you dumb wop
Anonymous No.64163490 >>64164691
>>64153677
>be PSA
>hurr durr lets buy this eclectic start up making a meme gun
>what can pawsibly go wrong?
>measure and study all 9001+ pieces of the STG-44 clockwerk
>HOLY MOLY.mov
>this fucker is going to be $5000+ a piece just to break even with no way to scale up production
>lets shake things up a little.gif
>simplify gun
>still too expensive and doesn't work
>simplify gun
>still too expensive it still doesn't work
>simplify gun
>gun no longer even resembles an STG-44 and still not working
>also likely still a $2000 gun
>proceed to surrender to krautism and move on to the next project before releasing the most embarrassing disaster in PSA history
wa la
Anonymous No.64164691
>>64163490
>>measure and study all 9001+ pieces of the STG-44 clockwerk
>>HOLY MOLY.mov
>>this fucker is going to be $5000+ a piece just to break even with no way to scale up production
>>lets shake things up a little.gif
>>simplify gun
>>still too expensive and doesn't work
>>simplify gun
>>still too expensive it still doesn't work
>>simplify gun
>>gun no longer even resembles an STG-44 and still not working
>>also likely still a $2000 gun
Hill and Mac did all these steps long before PSA ever got involved. Which makes it an even dumber decision to pick up that dumpster fire.