Thread 64157684

Explain to me how some sort of PDW sized semi-auto PCC wouldn't be better in almost every conceivable way to a patrol cop's service pistol for every day usage.
>plenty of options and price points
>not an absurd weight penalty
>slung rather than holstered, to reduce risk of gun getting wrestled away
>options for 9mm, 40 cal, 10mm, etc.
>"short" mags of 20 aren't that much bigger than what a cop normally carries in their duty pistols
>pistols are some of the more difficult weapons to shoot, a shouldered weapon lowers the bar considerably for accurate shots, reducing the risk of hitting bystanders
>adding a suppressor, if the department has the funds and paperwork for it, can protect ears and increase situational awareness that would be lost with noise
>otherwise it's just a bigger, easier to shoot pistol
Am I missing something here? Am I retarded? This seems like it makes all the sense in the world, and even people against "muh police militarization" who aren't dumbasses should be for this.

>>64157684 (OP)
the rapiers of the gun world if there were no NFA etc

>>64157684 (OP)
The overwhelming majority of policework does not require a gun at all and it would be extremely tedious to have to these things at those times. Whatever advantages you think a PCC has over a pistol, they simply don't outweigh the convivence of having a smaller weapon in a holster.

I can think of a couple reasons but they all revolve around how an SMG might be perceived hanging on the chest of a peace officer, or doctrinal idiosyncrasies that will probably never change.

Only single point slings would probably meet their requirements/expectations for firearm retention. it absolutely cannot leave the officer when he takes a shit at the waffle house or be left in the squad car when he's just writing a report and shit goes south.

It's kind of overkill for the normal routine duties of a cop, especially in rural areas. Cops probably spend less than .01% of their time getting into gunfights, and the majority of time they are significantly better shots than the perp, even without a buttstock. But yeah cops basically just write reports and talk on the radio and deal with minor public disturbances and traffic accidents and no matter how small a PCC is it's just going to be cumbersome compared to a pistol, in a belt holster, attached to the rest of the gear they commonly need.

>>64157684 (OP)
It's about image; officers who stop bystanders or visit people's homes to do "wellness checks" would not look good in court after shooting them if they approached the citizen with a PCC/SMG.

>>64157684 (OP)
Besides what the other have said in this thread, there is also the money issue, not every department has the same budget as big as New York or Los Angeles.

>>64157684 (OP)
>>slung rather than holstered
That is a huge problem. The average cop doesn't want a big clunky gun slung on his chest.

The advantage of a stock is huge, but that's too big of a weapon for the average cop. And if they need to get a bigger weapon there's little reason go grab a PCC over something in an intermediate cartridge.

>>64157684 (OP)
Speed of draw, but a 10" barrel PDW that shares mags with their pistol would be great in the center console or something, to be more accurate, have low recoil and body armor is effectively a non factor, plus they can still have an AR in the trunk. SMGs for patrol police forces is better in every regard when not on foot, not for SWAT or other similar tasks though

>>64157684 (OP)
A lot of places do this with visible police in high security areas near government installations and such. In London, there’s armed police with G36Cs or MP7s with 20 round mags, Eotechs, and suppressors all over.

>>64157939
Those are special units, like SWAT, anti-terrorist, not the average cop.

>>64157684 (OP)
Cops should carry PDWs akimbo, instead of a pistol on the belt and a rifle in the cruiser, but y'all ain't ready to have that convo. Don't @ me.

>>64157684 (OP)
>and even people against "muh police militarization"
...this is the objectively correct position

>>64157962
No, they’re armed patrol units, they are regular cops that carry guns for visibility, I would know, I spoke to them.

>>64157684 (OP)
something like the b&t usw definitely make more sense than pistols, but anything that can't be worn on a holster is just going to get in the way

>>64157939
How many foot pursuits do they get in? How many petty squabbles between suburban Karens do they have to mediate? How many traffic accidents do they respond to? It makes no sense for a normal patrol officer to have more than a pistol on him at all times.

>>64157982
forgot to mention that also needs to be comfortable to wear while sitting in a car

>>64157684 (OP)
Pigs don't need anything more than a .357 wheelgun carried on a Sam Browne belt. FACTS.

>>64157995
Since they’re walking around tourist areas with pubs, probably quite a bit, why don’t you go over there and survey them yourself? It’s cheap to fly right now.

>>64158003
>meanwhile in Miami 1986

>lets give the pieces of shit that enforce our corrupt politicians laws even better weaponry!
nah. hell nah, even.
cops should have at a maximum stab vests not capable of stopping bullets and 10 round mag limits. No shotgun or rifle in the squad car.

>>64158091
The FBI agent who was carrying a .357 revolver actually loaded with .357 instead of .38 +p is the one who ended the fight, taking out both guys

>>64157995
>It makes no sense for a normal patrol officer to have more than a pistol on him at all times.
Especially when they can easily have a proper long gun in their patrol vehicle. If they're responding to a serious call they can just grab that.

>>64158165
I would never want to send an officer into the hood with just a .357

>>64157684 (OP)
>Am I missing something here? Am I retarded?
Yea, it's the part where cops jobs are 80% writing tickets, 19.99% manhandling an uncooperative but unarmed individual, and .01% shootings. You're increasing the risks in their day to day life and making their jobs more difficult for moderate theoretical advantages for a situation most officers will never even find themselves in. Handguns with retention holsters are the best tool for the job, and if they need a long gun they should be grabbing a rifle or shotgun.

>>64157684 (OP)
Cops mostly deal with drunk fools, car accidents, and domestic disputes. Often, they're trying to wrestle a suspect to the ground to cuff them.

It's complete overkill, expensive, and an administrative pain in the ass.

>>64157684 (OP)
>patrol cop…every day usage.
It’s a talisman of power and a security blanket. 90+% of cops could carry a .38 or no gun at all with no change to how they carry out their duty.

>>64158201
A revolver on his person and a carbine in the car, but honestly, they don’t need a carbine. Being a cop in the hood is dangerous because of how cops act when they feel like they have enough power to be secure and begin to become arrogant. Take some power away and they will act more intelligently and be at less risk.

>>64158263
kek

>>64158253
>It’s a talisman of power and a security blanket.

shut the fuck up lol you just want cops to be less of a threat to you.

>>64157684 (OP)

Pic Related is the ideal service weapon.

Police units switched to semi-autos because gangbangers started carrying higher-capacity small arms. Instead of sending in SWAT to deal with said gangbangers with heavier weaponry, they let them fester and instead demanded cops carry semi-autos.

The majority of the time, a .357 Magnum or 1911 in 45ACP is enough.

It's those narrow few situations where PDs inexplicably demand patrol officers deal with organized crime that anything more is required. Instead of calling SWAT, they make regular guys do it or the patrol officer just stumbles into a situation they weren't expecting.

Fun fact, 3/4's of all police officers have never fired their weapons on-duty. And of those situations, it's often 2-4 officers shooting at the same time. And of those officers, only one usually gets the final "killshot".

Cops really don't need semi-autos or PDWs but, SWAT is also expensive to maintain and keep sharp, hence why only large cities have SWAT units. SWAT really should just be absorbed into the FBI and called (upon request) when local cops can't handle it. Like Spec Ops, there should be a base for every two states where they can be called in to handle stuff.

Thus, when a gangbanger tries to get tough, 30-50 pipe hitters kick in his door and fill him full of holes.

It's a simple equation:
>Deal with the nice officer who will arrest you, take you in, for your day in court
OR
>Deal with the psychos who will kill you and everyone inside your house and have carte blanche to do so.

>>64157684 (OP)
Seems a solid idea to me.

>>64157684 (OP)
>slung rather than holstered, to reduce risk of gun getting wrestled away
think about this for more than 5 seconds

>>64157939
>>64157971
they don't actually patrol, that's just the job title since they're not in a specialist unit. They stay in one area.

>>64158322
how come its ok to say cops don't "NEED" a certain type of gun but YOU should have access to any firearm you want?

also what is this alternate timeline you come from where SWAT are BOPE?

>>64158263
Being a cop in the hood is dangerous because it’s populated with the Great North American Pavement Ape.

>>64158306
Hearing the truth hurt your feelings?Being a police officer is dangerous because they drive squad cars everywhere, not because of gunfights. A beat cop’s gun is most dangerous to his family, first, himself second, and innocents third. Bad guys fourth.

>>64158352
Cops in the hood are still more likely to die from being fat fucks who can’t pass a doughnut up or from getting in a car accident on duty than because of the urban super predator boogieman they use as an excuse to act like dicks to regular people.

>>64158382
>being a cop is dangerous because they actually exist in the wild!
>they should just never go out, just stand in front of the police station and twirl their billy club while ruffling the hair of passing whippersnappers
>oh but also SWAT should be a literal death squad that just kills niggers without mercy

>>64158392
>boogieman

You’re cute.

>>64158348
>cops don't "NEED"
Cops aren't soldiers, they're job is not to kill people, their job is law enforcement, if they need a gun to do that they aren't good at it, at all. Specialized units like swat have their place and it is not regular law enforcement.

>>64158496
>Cops aren't soldiers
low key they are in the hood fr fr

>>64158496
I’m ex-LE and a gear/gunfag but local cops kitting out like they are Devrgu is gay.

>>64158535
>Is that...a surplus ballistic helmet
>AHHH THIS IS LITERALLY 1984

>>64158578
>I know civilians aren't allowed to own automatic weapons, but it's fine if the cops do
>so what if police use armored personnel carriers, its basically just an SUV
>Why should a cop have to wear a name tag or identify themselves? Let me guess, you don't think they should be allowed to wear masks either??
How do those boots taste?

>>64157684 (OP)
A proper rifle-caliber rifle is superior to a PDW for all the same reasons a PDW is superior to a handgun. If you don't care about the advantages of handguns, you shouldn't bother with PDWs at all.

>>64158640
>you don't think they should be allowed to wear masks either??
Let me guess Pablo your cousin got deported by ICE

>>64158348
>how come its ok to say cops don't "NEED" a certain type of gun but YOU should have access to any firearm you want?
Because I'm the one paying for both.

>>64158648
PDWs are better in small packages than intermediate rounds and are far superior to handguns for actual use. They also make for the best wife gun.

Because 90% of a cop's guns role is to be something he can keep someone from taking away from him while he wrestles unarmed suspects to the ground, talks with shady characters within arm's reach, and stays out of the way but secured while sprinting after someone.

If the cop expects a firefight he brings his rifle.

>>64157684 (OP)
>Best cop guns
Gen 3 glock 19
11.5 PSA AR
Unironically, as in completely serious

>>64157792
This.
I used to carry a Kel-Tec rifle in the car.
It was nice for armed robbery response and building searches, but it would have just been in the way 99% of the time.

Nah, fuck em. Take all their armyman larp toys away. They'll just stand around with their dicks in their hands when they actually have to nut up and do something other than bully random people anyway. They can do that just as well with a revolver.

>>64158396
An argument can be made for a felony arrest/felony warrant squad that is heavier armed and armored, perhaps being issued special weapons and using tactics that aren't needed by patrolmen, but I haven't said anything about that yet.

It is, however, clear that having police that are separate from and hostile to the populous the interact with only makes life worse for everyone. The Police as an institution learned the wrong thing from the Dinkheller video, and the consequences have been dire indeed for communities. The police obsession with their rare exposure to anything you can call a gunfight, the war on drugs, deindustrialization, and mass immigration from the third world are the 4 legs on the table our nation is being butchered on.

>>64159222
>fundamentally not getting it
Blacks mean police will inevitably be separate from the population. Asian and European policing doesn't work in an African zone.

>but anon here's a video where a policeman was objectively doing something wrong and vile
Now who's pretending communities are a monolith? Police are as federalized as every other group, and finding a legitimately horrible abusive one who murdered an innocent guy or whatever doesn't change the fundamental dynamic you're trying to pretend doesn't exist.

>>64159130
>Nah, f-ACK

>>64159103
>cops carrying Kel Tec weapons
Jesus, hard times eh?

>>64159130
Most cops want to shoot their guns at people, Uvalde is a special case of pussies who should've all been imprisoned

>>64157684 (OP)
> Am I missing something here?

Yes. The whole point of a pistol is that it can be worn, and be worn passively. If wearability is no longer a concern, literally everything is superior to a pistol.

>not an absurd weight penalty.
Only if you don’t consider a more than doubling of weight to be absurd.

>pistols are hard to shoot
…at range. At the distances cops are expected to engage bad guys at, this doesn’t matter. A pistol is just what you want. They can also be fired one-handed very easily, which is valuable because cops only have 2 arms and need their other arm to do other things with. The pistol doesn’t tie down more of your body and demand so much of your attention and energy like a shoulder-fired gun does.

>add a suppressor
This only makes the whole thing even longer. But imagine how funny the headlines would be when some nigger gets shot by a cop using a can, and the non-gun-owning public and media starts to think the cops are sneaky assassins like from the movies. I bet optics are a consideration for cops. Let’s say the Thompson submachinegun was a perfectly viable gun for cops/swat to use. You think they can get away with that shit?

>9/40/10mm
Yeah pistols come in those calibers too. But they’re all ultimately the same. Foot pounds on paper doesn’t really matter. Cops just mag dump until the guy stops moving. 9mm or 10mm makes not difference. You incur a capacity and recoil penalty for no real world benefit.

And the most salient point is the one this anon (>>64157792) made. You are talking about overburdening the cops with something they are not likely to ever use. And out of the ones that do end up firing their guns in the line of duty, few would be better served with an SMG/PDW.

>>64157922
(Not OP)

Is this really a concern though? Buy the guns once and they will outlive everyone employed by the department. Maybe even the department itself.

Not that they should switch to SMGs or whatever - I don’t think they should - but is cost really an argument?

>>64159412
you don't understand how cheap small police departments are

>>64158392
Yeah some are dicks, drunk on power, but there is no denying they serve the critical function of being nigger-wranglers. If anything, cops in the hood need even fancier guns. Maybe lassos or nets with which to better capture fleeing niggers.

>>64158496
> their job is law enforcement, if they need a gun to do that they aren't good at it
>law…
>…enforcement

And how do you suppose the law is enforced, dumbass? If the cops didn’t have guns, I’d never pull over. Nor would you. We’d go bank robbing. Just cause it never leaves the holster, does not mean its influence is not felt, or that it’s existence/presense is without consequence.

>>64158941
> If the cop expects a firefight he brings his rifle

Exactly. The rifle is an actively carried thing in anticipation of violence. Pistols are passively worn and forgotten about until you happen to need it.

>>64159418
Yeah, I probably don’t. I live in LA and can’t imagine the police departments here are ever short on money. I think the budget at some point rivaled NYC’s, like a billion a year or something like that.

>>64159418
>>64159434(me)

Fucking kek, this is greater than the military budget of some nations, and it’s just for one county, and it’s still a shithole.

>>64159448
If you think LA is bad, go drive through downtown San Bernardino and witness the 100 degree zombie apocalypse.

>>64159425
No nigger, the average citizen would mow you down when they see you being a criminal and cops would agree that you were guilty and clean up the body.

>TAKING FIRE
>I'M HIT

>>64159919
The average citizen would also be adapted to a Paradigm without police. There wouldn’t even be a society in such a paradigm. Laws and guns (cops) are the influx of energy needed to maintain such a high energy state like a first world society. You can not delete that and expect anything other than an eventual reversion to nature, clans, warlords, rampant robbery, rape, murder, etc.

And by the way, your argument of “citizens would kill you” is the same thing as “cops with guns”. They are both “the threat of violence is needed to dissuade destructive, self-serving behavior”.

>>64159943
This is like lazy syfi written by Lenin. It's called a white Christian community, and it existed in this country before communist got into congress and started destroying it.

>>64159919
is this the crux of your arguement, you want the police to be weak so we can enact mob justice? are you retarded?

>>64160042
See
>>64159998

>>64159998
>it’s called white christian
“Christian” is also code for “the threat of violence is necessary blah blah blah”, only it’s a force that governs all your actions all the time and the punishment is eternal immolation.

>>64160042
I’m the guy he’s arguing with. In his defense, it wouldn’t be so bad if the cops disappeared for like a couple days, but if all of White America received a heads up. “Hey guys we’re gonna look that way for the next couple days, behave yourselves, but if you don’t, that’s cool too”

>>64160062
>but if all of White America received a heads up

this is my point tho. all 'disarm the police' users are just guys who want to race war

A police duty weapon's job is to sit in it's holster for 99-100% of it's service life, hence why the pistol has always been the go-to. A bigger gun is much worse at staying on your person and out of the way, even if it's better at gun stuff. If they need more gun, they can keep more gun in the patrol car.

>>64159998
What does any of what I said have to do with communism? My position is that we’re self-interested animals and the unrestricted pursuit of the limits of self-interest are destructive. Absent the threat of violence coupling such behaviors to death/imprisonment, lots of destructive, inconsiderate, anti-social, self-serving behavior/action becomes game theory optimal. Call it mob justice or call it cops, it doesn’t matter, the gun to your head is necessary and we outsource that gun pointing to cops. Atleast cops can be held accountable, can apprehend a suspect until he has his day in court, etc. mob justice means you get burned alive or hanged and they’ll fuck up often enough and execute innocent men, or level disproportionate punishment, things like that.

TLDR: it’s good that cops exist and also good that they have guns. There’s like 1 cop per 500 people. Without guns, they are simply overwhelmed and can just be ignored.

>>64160075
You must admit that in recent years the cops have kinda served to tie the hands of Whites against their back, while everyone else punches them with impunity. 2020 couldn’t have happened without cops protecting rioters.

>>64160082
Yup. The main role of a pistol is to be there, but to be out of the way.

>>64160088
The rambling of a nigger mind

>>64160125
This is like the millionth instance where the niggers fit the template of the midwit meme kek. They’re like simple, instinct driven creatures, with 0 layers of abstraction between impulse and action. Governed entirely by the almighty game theory engine of life on earth that prescribes one his instincts. In this way, there will be many parallels between truths derived through raw calculation, and the simple, primal intuition of niggers.

>>64160092
no, i dont have to admit that lol. jails are 99% black and brown inmates.

>>64159448
>2 billion a year for a fucking police department
How do all their beat cops not fucking look like this?

>>64160324
because 1.9 billions is being funelled in private parties, whores and drugs for those working next to the mayor's office

>>64159448
>>64160324
NYC's annual police budget is 10 billion. big rich cities get big budgets

>>64157684 (OP)
The average cop probably only uses his pistol in one shooting over his entire career and the rest of the time it stays on his hip as he writes parking tickets and tardwrangles day drinkers.
This means that the pistol should be small, light, and easy to forget about.
That is none of those things.

>>64159930
I remember this, cops just need a better criteria for who they're allowed to hire.

>>64158668
ICE aren't regular cops, retard. We're talking about police officers itt, and no, regular officers should never be allowed to conceal their identity. Neither should the ATF either, but I'll bet you'd lick their boots as well.

>>64160573
>t. First Amendment Auditor

>>64157684 (OP)
>even people against "muh police militarization"
Posse comitatus, nigger


>>64158306
>you just want cops to be less of a threat to you
Yes. /chadface

>>64160780
>Posse comitatus
That's not what Posse Comitatus means you mong
It's prevents the military from acting as domestic law enforcement

>>64160842
militarizing the police is just a sneaky end-run around posse comitatus. Cops are meant to be Civilian public servants, not carabinieri or any other kind of paramilitary force

>>64160859
The carabinieri and other gendarmerie groups are literally some of the earliest forms of what we would associate as modern day law enforcement. Even when civilian entities were created they still based their structure off the military and bought a bunch of surplus. Whether you like it or not and lot of stuff regarding law enforcement comes downstream from the military and modified for a domestic context.

>>64160842
>>64160859
>>64160934
Agreed that police forces worldwide (esp. post-World War II) have long used milsurp arms and gear. But the trend post-9/11 in the United States of Bearcat-ting out the local sheriff or PD is not only disturbing it's clown world.
Anyway sure there are going to be certain PD and sheriffs (in the types of cities where hey, presto the Trump admin is currently considering deploying the NG) where they might need to have swat fully suited up with more frequency, armored IFVs etc. Doesn't mean that every town or locale needs to have an antiterror response doorkick battalion. And as we also know from statistics, 'no-knock' and swat raids by police nationwide are massively overdone since the 1980s.

>>64158535
Cops and soldiers both protect and serve the state, not the people. The disconnect is when the state no longer serves the people but itself.

>>64160995
>But the trend post-9/11 in the United States of Bearcat-ting out the local sheriff or PD is not only disturbing it's clown world.
Cops have been using armored vehicles since the 1920-30s

>>64160859
You are a tard. Sherrif Joe Bob having an MRAP to deal with the local schizo with a rifle is a far cry from "militarizing" the police. You have no idea what words mean you just parrot what other slightly less stupid people babble.

>>64161083
>'muh armored vehicles'
Re-read *carefully* my post (You) replied to in particular the first sentence (instead of disingenuously cherrygreentexting for disinformation purposes).
There's a trend since 11 September 2001 of local PDs and sheriffs acquiring GWOT surplus gear (<--yes a lot of that is due to gov/mil industrial complex 'discount' programs alone, but is also impelled by 'anti-terror' posture and explicit policy taken by law enforcement at the state and local levels mimicking the DoJ/FBI and applying the unconstitutional USAPatriot Act to extreme lengths)
Hundreds of local/regional PDs and sheriffs simply do not need this crap (but they take it because gibs, and in some instances because authoritarian corporatist forces from outside/above their region specifically intend to gear-bulk up and gear-roid out the LE in these areas)

>>64158322
>there should be a base for every two states where they can be called in to handle stuff
okay
>mass shooting happens
>they're upstate 4 hours away

>>64161144
Checked, based, succinct

>>64161083
Even your strawman is fucking retarded. Can you not see the sandbags and literal fucking USGI on the tank? Whatever the fuck was going on in chinatown there was not normal.

>>64157684 (OP)
One of the biggest misconception about Police work is that its an operator job. Meaning your gun is always ready to neutralize targets.

Police work has no targets, you interact with citizens endowed with rights all day long and they're the people you swore to serve, even if they commit a crime they do not become a target. While your job is to enforce the law and keep the peace, the law demands of you to not do it at the expense of civilians.

With that in mind, you should be giving them as much of a benefit of the doubt as possible, and you're issued a weapon to defend yourself and others against harm, not to bring harm to those you deem targets.

And so, a handgun is a weapon you can carry and deploy in these benefit of the doubt situations. You can readily observe more of a suspect with the zero being above the sights, not covered up by a dot. A short barrel and hollow points so that you don't get a bright idea to try killing people at 60 yards through a fence or something. Stockless, short and balanced right on top of your hand so that you can tuck the weapon into your hip in retention scenario, shoot one-handed after injury, and maneuver it as freely as you maneuver your hands to clear any obstacles that may be between you and suspect.

A longarm cannot be secured as readily and safely as a handgun. There are no comfortable retention holsters for longarms, retention straps for longarms are bulky, meaning its always in the way of deploying any of your other tools. Balance over magazine means firing it one-handed is a chore, and a stock protruding backwards prevents you from maneuvering the weapon close to your body. Longer, bulkier body makes you want to be further away from the suspect, culminating in shootings where you perceive him being too close as actual credible threat due to your inability to guarantee retention.

A longarm in your car is an option you can take. A longarm replacing your pistol is an option being taken away.

>>64161144
>Muh cherry picking
The point is that law enforcement has always been "militarizing" due to advances in firearms and emergent threats.
>But cops back then didn't use XYZ
Because XYZ didn't exist back then
During Probation you had departments and agencies buying tons of Thompsons and BARs to deal with mobsters
In the 60s SWAT teams were created due to all the violent crime during the Civil Rights movement
The Munich Massacre was bungled because the cops assigned to rescue the hostages were regular patrol officers who went hunting on the weekends which why countries started creating and investing tons of money into paramilitary police teams
You had the Miami Dade shootout that caused tons of departments and agencies to move towards double stack 9mm handguns because they realized that .38 revolvers aren't enough to put guys down
Then you had the North Hollywood shootout which made people realize that the bad guys also had body armor which why cops started driving around with rifles in their trunk
All these small town police departments would still have gotten their hands on Bearcats, 9/11 did not cause this it just sped things along

>>64157684 (OP)
>>not an absurd weight penalty
>>slung rather than holstered, to reduce risk of gun getting wrestled away

Having it always dangle around your neck means it's too inconvenient to not leave on the front seat of a patrol car to be stolen

>>64157684 (OP)
it's more convenient to carry a handgun all day than a slung PDW, and if they need something better they can just grab the rifle in the back of there car.

>>64157684 (OP)
You are gonna need two free hands for 95% of what you do all day. A sizable % of LOD cop deaths are with the bad guy using the officer’s weapon so I’d rather have a Lvl3 holster than an SMG flopping around. Also most cop shootings are within such close range that a close retention firing position or one handed shot would negate the benefits of a shoulder weapon.

>>64161589
Retard

>>64160656
>t. has a back the blue and punisher skull tattoo
What size boot is your favorite flavor to lick?

>>64157684 (OP)
It would be a massive hindrance compared to just having a pistol holstered.
>slung rather than holstered
This is not a benefit compared to having it holstered and tells me you’ve never been on patrol and had to deal with a schizo trying to wrestle your gun away. You’re way more likely to have something on a sling used against you vs having a pistol in a level 3 Safariland used against you.

>>64159919
>lolbert delusion

>>64159998
>christian
Ohhhhh, you don’t like cops because they’ll arrest you for child molestation.

>>64161784
Indeed, he is. (His wall-of-irrelevant-Red-Herring-text)

>>64161775
Right in terms of just average majority non-doorkicker patrol officers I'd presume all this.

>>64162319
Nice vintage M75 there, ought to be refurbed in proper Army scheme and donated to a museum.
M114s were also somewhat common from early '70s forward in domestic police service, after the Army kaboshed them

Yeah I get it and know more about this aficionado subtopic than even (You) mr. not-gonna-direct-quote

>>64161934
>t. has a b-ACK

It's funny that police militarization is always presented as an American issue when European countries spend millions of dollars to kit out their goon squads

Police should all buy 8" 300 blk uppers from PSA and 110 grain Vmax Hornady in bulk

Testing. I think I’m banned.

>>64162434
Euros aren't hiring middle school dropouts for their goon squads.

>>64162434
That's tradition over there

>>64162434
Why are the Euros feds so much more kino than American feds?

>>64162434
Probably because euro police aren't lazy trigger-happy midwits

>>64162588
>>64162931
>Meanwhile in EVROPA

>>64162578
you're back

>>64162997
Someone shoop this with the "we'll be right back"

>>64162997
>>64163032

>>64163030
Didn’t get banned in the first place.

>>64158578
Back in the late 90’s we got PASGT’s and some old ass APC trucks. Still better than not having.

>>64161042
We have accelerated way past the anyone in gov doing anything for anyone other than themselves.

>>64162270
Right obviously you need to have some specialized units but I felt the classic polyester striped pants had an air of respect vs looking like a mall ninja.

>>64157684 (OP)
I appreciate the idea but draw time and as Paul harrel put it program compliance the odds of especially a female cop leaving it in the patrol vehicle go up dramatically with added size and weight and even then any holstered to immediately firing scenario is going to be made less likely to turn out in the cops favor even if it were magically the same weight the size is going to make it harder

>>64160350
If your sample consisted solely of LAPD and NYPD, you’d conclude that the greater the police department’s budget, the more of a shithole their jurisdiction becomes. Ten. Fucking. Billion. What do they even do with that much money?

>>64162997
lmao @ the deerjaks on the storefront

>>64157684 (OP)
>Am I missing something here? Am I retarded?
Yes and yes. Police work is armed clerical work. Carrying that around serves no purpose and would just get in the way.

>>64163288
nyc is the safest big city in the US unless you're in a nigger neighborhood which you have no reason to ever go to unless you live in it

>>64158165
To be fair, Mireles started out the gunfight with a 12-gauge shotgun. He was unable to reload his shotgun because one of his arms was disabled, so he went for the Hail Mary. Saying that all he needed was a revolver when 145 rounds were fired is very disingenuous.

>>64159103
>Kel-Tec wielding cop
That's fucking horrifying.

>>64163333
First off, sick quads.

With that outta the way, I looked it and you’re right. NYC murder rate is <4/100k

I also saw that Birmingham, Alabama has the highest murder rate of 59/100k. If the average lifespan is 70 years, a resident of Birmingham has a 4.1% chance of dying by murder. 1 in 25 people there will be murdered. Which also means 1 in 25 are murderers if every murder has a unique murderer. And if you assume it’s men doing the killing, then 1 in 12.5 men you encounter will go on to kill someone. Fucking wild.

Anyway, I never heard anything nice about NYC. No videos showing what a wonderful place it is. Just video after video, or headline after headline of “woman immolated on subway” and “gifted schoolboys stab man to death in Central Park”.

>>64163755
See this here is the problem, you can't apply those stats assuming all things being equal.
It's 70% blacks. Half of those are bucks, let's say for argument's sake half of those are real pieces of shit. There's a specific word for these people but /k/ is apparently full of slack jawed faggots who'll report you for no-no words these days.
Anyway, it's probably more like a 30% chance of a gangbanging black getting clapped by another gangbanging black, because lmao their life expectancy is not 70.

>>64158535
Over half the population of the US is hostile to the state and the good willing people, so easy to tell the Browns out in this chat.

>>64162412
Lol. Smoked that bitch!

>>64164039
>Over half the population of the US is hostile to the state
And the remainder are fucking retarded, just like the state.

>>64164010
>Birmingham is 70% black

I did not need to be told that lmao. I can estimate the % black population of a place by its murder rate.

And yes obviously that murder rate is not equally distributed over every square mile of Birmingham. The white part of town likely has a far lower murder rate, and men get killed far more often than women.

The stats are startling if I consider everything equal. If I don’t, and I start differentiating between types of people, the stats become magnitudes worse. The probability of a nigger male in Birmingham dying by murder is far higher than 1 in 25.

You know this murder rate is high even for the niggers. In 2021 their murder rate peaked at 35/100k. This is almost double that. Maybe % black pop has an effect on this, like how mob mentality alters everyone’s psychology.

>>64157684 (OP)
Inconvenient to carry slung, easily gets in the way while handling a suspect, harder weapons retention compared to a secure holster, if you are going to carry something larger than a service pistol why carry anything other than a 5.56 carbine that the officer most likely already has in his patrol car?

>>64163755
>1 in 25 people there will be murdered.
That's an insane number

>>64157684 (OP)
How is this realistically better than a full sized handgun with say, a 20 round magazine?

Yeah maybe it can hold 30 rounds, but they're both going to be semi auto, its far more bulky and much larger and cant be easily holstered on the body like a handgun for chases, fights, etc. Yes, police can get these as SMGs but most departments do not issue machine guns to patrol officers.

The point at which you need something other than a handgun, is when you grab the AR-15, not a Pistol caliber PDW. You need power and longer range precision.

>>64159234
Niggers are the way they are because the heebs make them as bad as possible to use them as leverage to get you to lick boots. It doesn’t help that literally anyone who thinks crime is worse now than it was in the 90s is a pants-wetting coward who bought into (((their))) psyops. The prison industry and all of the wall-worshipping AIPAC certified “leaders” need you to think that crime is epidemic and you need to be a terrified little sissy for big daddy policeman to protect, and you bought it, hard.

>>64164177
Lawd da Rangz: Da Rangz o’ Powah!

Check out picrel. It’s a list of the top 50 cities by murder rate. That top spot, Colima, Mexico, is even more insane. 182/100k translates to 1 in 8.

Notice anything about the American cities that made the list?

>>64164223
There seems to be a pattern of some sort but don't worry I've been assured there isn't.

>>64157684 (OP)
What you are thinking of is the USW and it achieves everything a PDW could do all while still be able to fit in a mildly larger holster

>>64164189
This entirely.
under the current NFA / Hughes Amendment there's no practical reason to have PCCs (except as funkopop range toys to spend hobby money on)
Submachine guns are suppressive fire weapons to be used mostly in close-quarters battle; their utility derives from full auto function.

>>64163194
>classic polyester striped pants had an air of respect
all about cargo pockets, these days

>>64165153
>Submachine guns are suppressive fire weapons to be used mostly in close-quarters battle

It would scare soccer moms.

>>64166108
Kek. I was thinking the same thing. Some old lady gets pulled over for going 5 over and a cop approaches her with a fully kitted out suppresses mp5 slung against his torso, directly in her face.

itt: pissbabbies whining for stocks and spitting up about SMG's while ignoring the obvious OG solution...
RETVRN

>>64157684 (OP)
>Am I retarded?
Yes. Cops have pistols for defense because most of their job is personal interactions and tard wrangling. The pistol is a self defense item. If they need something bigger a shotgun or rifle is always available in the patrol car and those do everything a PDW does but better.

>>64157792
A cop once told me how he only needed to use like 3 times his whole career. He told me about all the time she talked someone out of suicide as their about to jump and stuff. If we start thinking of cops by their guns and not the rest of their duties, not even using submission wrestling to subdue a drunk, then we people screwed up.

>>64167457
I think we’ll start to appreciate some other functions of cops more as police departments become more female. Women are neither formidable nor intimidating creatures and as such must rely on their weapons - a taser and a gun. But men have a force continuum starting from mere physical presence and terminating in a gun with a ton of intermediate, less-lethal options.

I know this isn’t the type of thing you are imploring everybody to appreciate, but it is something. It’s just gone unnoticed until now that it’s forced in everyone’s face. (Like how women’s selection for height went under the radar until Tinder forced it to be explicit kek)

>he needed to use like 3 times.
His gun? 3 times is a lot, no?

>>64167514
It is but it's over a whole multi decade long career. Guy was an older officer telling us his stories.

But yeah, it is nice to appreciate the parts of cops that aren't beating people up. This is /k/ so we'd be talking at minimum about their unarmed but it's nice to appreciate their non-violent parts/

>>64164966
For an average beat cop that wouldn't be the worst idea in the world, especially if it's holster-able.
The Raider would be pretty good too if its primary host weapon isn't a fucking 320.

>>64166103
Their utility derives from full auto function.

>>64161083
That pic is very cool for some reason

>>64157807
>no matter how small a PCC is it's just going to be cumbersome compared to a pistol, in a belt holster
This and if they did bother it'd be a proper select fire submachine gun

>>64157792
This.

>>64165172
Yeah, nothing wrong with that. As a shortage, I think a squared away uniform and gear adds a few inches. My former PD used to wear leather jackets, helmets bear hats and motorcycle boots and breaches in the regular patrol and my Sgt said everyone looked 6 ft.

>>64164966
This, except specifically going for the conversion kits where you can drop in a Glock. Departments would be far more open to that, converting some existing weapons on a needs basis.

>>64157792
Youll spend 99% of your time weilding a pencil and notebook, and maybe 1% of your time pointing a gun at things. And even then, 99% of the time your gun is out you arent going to fire it. Its just the reality of police work. Even in a town like mine thats dangerous, only on two occasions did i think "im about to smoke this dude", but thankfully never had too.

>>64158322
>Let the FBI be the ones in charge of your local SWAT teams
I see you clearly aren't a police officer, nor do you know any police officers to understand why this is a dogshit idea.

>>64158322
>a base for every two states
are you a euro peon or do you just have a shockingly bad understanding of the size of your own country

(hint: that is not a semi-auto)

>>64163288
Liberal cities tend to become extremely corrupt for a reason. Maybe 60% of that money goes directly into nigger pockets and "political" "donations" for the same reason that drug money and confiscations always seem to disappear around the same time the local police commissioner buys a new boat.

>>64174351
Corruption isn't a party problem anon, it's an America problem. There are many deeply corrupt red towns.

>>64158700
.300 BLK outperforms 9x19 at every barrel length, for both subsonic and supersonic use. Sure, PDWs are better than handguns for combat, but they're not better than a rifle-caliber carbine of the same size, and they're not easily holsterable or concealable like handguns. PDWs serve no purpose. If it's something you'll be carrying often but rarely using, get yourself a Glock. If it's something you'll generally only be carrying when you plan to use it, get yourself an RDB-C in 6.5 Grendel or a 7" AR in .300 Blackout.

>>64174748
>PDWs serve no purpose
>"PDW"
by "PDW" you mean the civilian-larpertard-funkopop-'I-wanna-cool-gun-looks-like-MP5' semiauto PCC wasting-his-hobby-money-in-the-manner-he-enjoys,
yes that's correct.

Only the _actual_ PDW—that is, select fire mil- and LEO-issue MP7 and P90—and submachine guns serve a purpose. Semiauto pistol caliber carbines are range toys and never will be anything else

>>64157684 (OP)
Police should be unarmed. Everyone else should be armed.

>>64174759
The MP7 and P90 are both dogshit weapons chambered in dogshit cartridges and people only dickride them because they can't afford them.

>>64174808
Not as dogshit as the people trying to NFA-replicate semiauto versions of them

>"dickride"
Many militaries and police forces use them and continue to do so which is what the other poster 64174748 meant by 'serve a purpose'
Get off of my board and stay off. Stay off the entire internet permanently for that matter

>>64174759
MP5s have a higher body count than bonnie blue

>>64175057
higher than TEC-9s?

>>64175080
For shizle

>>64174748
Why do people call 300 blackout a meme round when it's better and quieter than 556 at close distances

>>64175145
Some dude started an entire thread last week malding about it

>>64160465
That cop apparently used to be special forces.

>>64174821
And a large number of those have stated that they are unsatisfied with their performance and will not be purchasing more.

Anon, police around the world do do that, they don't all do it because like others have said a firearm is a last resort that is rarely ever used, the US has the highest rate of police firearm usage in the developed world.
Even Bongistan police have MP5s in inventory.

>>64175560
They've even treated themselves to MP7s now

>>64175564
The extremely long LOP of the mp7 bothers me. It’s supposed to be a small and nimble gun and yet that LOP looks to be 15” Atleast, negating to some degree the benefits of telescoping the grip and action.

>>64175579
They couldn't add multiple notches to adjust the LOP? What the fuck is wrong with HK?

>>64162633
Having less departments to spread them over probably contributes. The US has just an absurd number of departments and agencies that all want their own dress-up operators. Some of them make sense, like the Department of Energy having their own nuke guards specifically equipped to be able to keep an eye on weapons and material being transported 24/7, or NASA having a team specially trained to safely operate around the one-of-a-kind hazards and environments they deal with (that totally isn't a cover for Stargate Command to recruit I know you're fucking down there O'Neill). But then you get into the more esoteric ones, like I'm not entirely sure why Amtrak needs one. Or why the FBI has SWAT, 'Enhanced SWAT' and the more famous HRT.
Well I do know, and it's my other point: every fucking town of 200 people thinks it needs a SWAT team with milsurp gear. So instead of being able to rely on regional teams all these federal agencies have to roll their own. The soup's too thin.
tl;dr: Euro feds have less nonsense diluting the pool, generally.

>>64157684 (OP)
Your whole argument is
>It's actually not that much bigger
When it actually is

>>64175689
I think later gens did get multiple notches.

>>64159448
holy shit LMAO

>>64175721
You think that’s hilarious? Well check this shit out: >>64160350
(And picrel)

>>64175441
>>64175564
t. the U.K. MOD / police MP7s are semiauto-only
designation : MP7-SF

>"not be purchasing more"
both the MP7 and P90 are 40 years old from a late-1980s era NATO specification. Since that time AR-15s have become the kleenex of 'scary military guns' globally aka now everybody uses only AR-15s and Glocks, all "military rifles" and "submachine guns" are some variant of AR-15 none of the subcategories or even pistol-v.-rifle-caliber chamberings even matter any more. It's just AR-15 or Glock (in various caliber chamberings and barrel lengths). Those are the choices end of discussion That's it that's all

>>64159448
>>64175721
>>64175754
what happened to 'defund the police'
Where does all that money go
>dental plan

>>64176059
They went particular insane in 2020 and said alot of dumb things, but then the current thing spell wore off, they gathered all their wits and realized maybe it’s a bad idea to delete cops. There are still some true believers out there, but it is no longer the mainline orthodoxy.

>>64160350
Like, for the size of LA i can maybe okay understand why 2 bils is needed. But NY ? 10 ? What the fuck ?

>>64176059
Policy-wise nothing ever actually came of it most places. And to be fair, I think most were using it because it was catchier than 'Significantly reform the police and spend more on early diversions and interventions and whatever else'. Either way didn't amount to much.
Plus like >>64176095 said the political will died out among the more literal types.
>>64176129
In terms of legitimate reasons beyond graft and bloat, the UN is a pretty big one. UNDSS runs security on the grounds itself but whenever the General Assembly is on there's an immense number of world leaders, diplomats and representatives descending on the city that need to get to and from the place safely. I've seen the size of the on-the-ground presence they use to block off roads for it, and I could imagine it costing a few dollars.