Thread 64165451

Is building a barely armored 6x6 shitbox really so hard that everyone needs to ask Finns to sell them one?

>>64165451 (OP)
they shit oil money why bother doing it yourself?

>>64165451 (OP)
It's not economical to do it. Same with the M113. Everybody can build a shitty box but few can do it on a scale where it's worth it.

>>64165451 (OP)
PASI are one of the longest running models of battlefield taxis, it's probable that what the finns are offering is simply better than anything else on the market. Why would you spend extra money to develop your indigenous 6x6 to compete with an ally and likely have a worse product when you can just give Patria the few shekels and get the best thing?

>>64165451 (OP)
no but why make tooling etc to build your own shitbox in small quantities when the finns will sell you one for less and have already done that

>>64165451 (OP)
>that everyone needs to ask Finns to sell them one?
Because with finns you win:DDDd

>>64165517
This desu. Countries spent last 30 years developing super expensive heavily armored and armed wheeled IFVs. Now they realize that they need more than 60 vehicles, there are not many cheap and cheerful battlefield taxis available on the market. Funland in finally in nato, and patria has long history of making mostly decent wheeled armored vehicles to vroom vroom around the battlefield

>>64165451 (OP)
Norway is a major stockholder in Patria

>>64165517
One would expect them to build more Strykers.

>>64165451 (OP)
Everyone wants the best one

>>64165573
Stryker would need redesigning to make it more mine resistant.

>>64165451 (OP)
it's just that good

With finns you win
Simple as

>>64165519
Even the tooling is not that hard to set up, Latvia's been assembling (and making their own hulls) for over a year at this point, in a factory that can churn out up to 180 of them if needed.
Pic kinda related, Latvian produced Patria 6x6 for the 3rd Assault Brigade.

>>64167618
What's he so happy about?

>>64165592
Well the double V hull strykers improved on that and the A1s even more. They still fucking suck to operate though
t. Former Strykerfag

>>64167792
People keep shitting on the Stryker, and nobody says why.

Can someone give an actual breakdown of why the Strykers are such ass?

>>64165547
This. And what sets Patria 6x6 apart is that it is using automotive components that are being used for manufacturing trucks for commercial market - making them cheap and easily available. In addition Patria does not only manufacture vehicles, but if the customer prefers it, can help setting up production with local company - allowing licensed local manufacturing.

>>64165451 (OP)
No, but these are going to be cheap as hell because of it turning into mass-production for large fleets for Scandinavian countries, Germany and the UK, instead of a dozen countries batch-producing their own version of a 6x6 shitbox that ultimately does the same thing as what Finland has been producing for the past 7 years

>>64167835
NTA but 1st gen Strykers (for lack of better word) were designed to be merely lightweight bulletproof shitboxes to replace Humvees. Some MRAPs are better protected than those, which is why MRAPs had to be bought for the sandbox. They were also lightly armed.

Stryker DVH added mine protection and the Dragoon variant has a proper gun and all, but that's like slapping a turret on top of an MRAP. It's still relatively thinly-armoured compared to proper NATO wheeled 8x8 IFVs such as the Boxer. For example, Stryker DVH is protected against 14.5mm in front, whereas Boxer has all-around protection.

All said and done people who call the Stryker "shit" are retards or turdies. It's still an excellent vehicle with superior electronics than most. And these days that's what counts.

>>64167768
I'm scared of Nikocado Avocado.png

>>64167792
>>64167835
I'm under the impression that it was built for another Black Hawk Down event, aka supporting infantry during urban warfare vs African mobs.

>>64167844
Oh yeah, doesn't it just use a common Scania semi-truck/boat/industrial diesel engine, too? I suppose parts for the thing are plentiful in Yurop at least.
Many countries are likely not interested in getting so many metal bawkses that having their own design would be worth it. If they only want a couple hundred at most, it's probably way cheaper to license Patria's design and tweak it for whatever they want. Patria already sold the AMV to a bunch of countries with a similar deal.

>>64165451 (OP)
With the EU moving away from reliance on the US each country will specialize so they all get arms deals without having to compete with eachother.
Looks like the Finns are going to get the wheeled IFV / APC market.
Tanks will likely go to Germany, the French will do most planes and the UK does some nice PGMs.

>>64165451 (OP)
It's not that hard, but the one the finnlads make looks just so fucking happy no one can resist.
See>>64169045>>64167618

>>64165451 (OP)

Protection against superior force explosives is out the window because it can't be guarded against.
Front, back and side main gun threats aren't there anymore. Top attack ATGM and Drone War is there now.
Speed and mobility is now more important than main battle tank warfare in Europe, Asia and the Americas.
The last great need for Main battle tanks was DS1 and Iraqi Freedom. We shall never see large great tank battles like them ever again.

>>64165451 (OP)
Why waste time building a 6x6 shitbox when you can ask Finland to do it?

>>64169045
Aww look at the little guy

>>64167963
Isn't he already dead?

>>64169363
Just becauase Russia and Ukraine can't couter FPV drones it doesn't mean every other nation on Earth can't as well.

>>64169045
cute~

>>64169363
Have you considered that EW, DEW, and APS might make low-altitude drones obsolete when everyone is scrambling to do so? Ukraine is a war in which new technology is catching belligerents off-guard, and this is something akin to a peer conflict, so it seems like drones are the new meta. However, no side has been able to establish air superiority or SEAD, so traditional large armored assaults supported by air power are not possible. That's a big part of why this conflict has become largely concerned with infantry, artillery, and drones. I'm not saying the drones aren't important, but once every tank has a hardkill APS that works on drones and every squadron has dedicated EW and DEW platforms, small drones may not be as effective. This is even more true if one side can achieve SEAD and air superiority, because the front line for the side that did not achieve air superiority and SEAD would be drastically pushed back to whatever area they could protect from enemy air assets. The front lines would be much farther apart, compared to in Ukraine where they are close together. The side which achieved air superiority and SEAD would be facing heavily defended enemy positions where assets could be defended from air attacks, necessitating a large armored assault to reduce them.

>>64167738
>>64165451 (OP)
>>64167618
Cargo cult, literally 'we have Chibi BTR' at home.

The Finns must be really worried about the Hwan having troops on their doorstep, the Second Hyper War kill be over quickly if this is all the Khanate has to offer.

>>64165451 (OP)
The "everyone" is mostly (but not always) tiny northern euro countries who don't have the wealth or resources to just build a whole new factory for this. The nordics also all have post WW2 histories of military cooperation and mutual supply, training, defense etc. It makes sense for Finland to supply all these for their friends and neighbors, Norway to build most of the shipping, Sweden most of the IFV's, etc. It'd be retarded for Norway to build these themselves too when they have like 5 million total population. Splitting up responsibilities within reason is their best bet, especially with Russia acting spicy and both the US and EU members of NATO all doing the retard.

Brazil already figured out.

>>64169650
Germany is buying 3500 of them and the Brits have shown interest as well.

>>64169209
Most countries absurdly are interested in buying them in the hundreds negate to have an their old shitboxes to Ukraine.

>>64167925
>for lack of better word
Seriously, why isn't there a better word. "M[Whatever] Baseline" sounds awkward and "M[Whatever]A0" sounds silly. We should start assigning the A1 suffix to the first version of everything in anticipation of there being a second variant at some point.

>>64169363
>because it can't be guarded against.

>>64165451 (OP)
Perkeles are the only ones in Western Europe who made a real new battle taxi. its super new and based on existing tech, thus cheap but still modern. Combine that with ready and setup production lines, its no surprise everyone is grabbing them. and with super new I mean it was introduced in service in 2021, its basically a baby

>>64170000
OP picture is Norwegian. Hardly surprising that Norway is getting them when 49,9% of Patria is owned by Kongsberg and the remainder by the Finnish state. Nammo is the same shit.

>>64169045
A Pasi getting a bath is a happy Pasi.

>>64169180
the stryker was essentially meant to be a halfway point between a 3-ton humvee and a 35-ton bradley

the reason it got top priority in the GWOT is because thats where its traits were most effective
it was as fast as a humvee but a lot more armored, so it could respond to insurgents quickly while still providing overmatch
more passengers than the M2 brad was also an upside, since infantry were more desirable in these scenarios

its importance was dialed down with the US moving back to a conventional war paradigm
bradleys moved back to the forefront, because maneuvering with an enemy that has their own tanks and IFVs means you need your own tanks and IFVs
but strykers still fill an important supporting tole to the bradleys
each armored division has 1 stryker brigade for each 2 armor brigades
their higher infantry count gives armored units an infantry-heavy option to use, while being mounted means they can still easily keep up with fast paced operations

not quite a pure battle taxi, its officially an APC/IFV hybrid that can hang back or engage with the squad at the PLs discretion, but its as close to one as you can get

>>64170988
It's kinda adorable

>>64169722
Paying the Italians to design around some loose Brazilian requirements isn't Brazil figuring it out.

>>64169413
>Isn't he already dead?
He is two steps ahead. He lost 200lbs of weight and got back to skinny

>>64165451 (OP)
Why doesn't every US state build their own pointless redundant military hardware?
Same reason.

>>64170988
Imagine being under fire, and this thing drives over to evacuate you

>>64171030
>its importance was dialed down with the US moving back to a conventional war paradigm
Slight correction: even if the Cold War had continued, the US Army would still have pivoted to Strykers
Strykers aren't replacements for Bradleys. They're replacements for Humvees, M113s, trucks, and jeeps. Which in the Fulda days is what most infantry would have gone to the front in. Modern 8x8s still have excellent conventional war applications, mainly because of their speed and low maintenance requirements

>>64172238
>They're replacements for Humvees, M113s, trucks, and jeeps
strykers ended up not really replacing anything
M113s were replaced by the AMPV, humvees were replaced by JLTVs and ITVs, and the jeep was replaced by the humvee

strykers ended up just making an equivalent to a soviet motor rifle unit
but while soviet motor rifles were intended treated as infantry but better and deployed where you would need infantry but want a more elite and more well equipped unit, strykers were a specialist unit intended for plugging gaps

in the cold war, they wouldnt have wanted strykers to replace infantry
they would have wanted more bradleys to increase the number of mech divisions they could deplpy

>>64172250
>strykers ended up not really replacing anything
>M113s were replaced by the AMPV, humvees were replaced by JLTVs and ITVs, and the jeep was replaced by the humvee
Nope
The M113 was replaced by the Bradley in ACAV roles, AMPV in support roles, and the Stryker as a battle taxi
Humvees and trucks in the combat role are replaced by Strykers in some units, JLTVs and ISVs in others

>strykers were a specialist unit intended for plugging gaps
No
They were intended for about the same thing as Soviet BTR units, ie to manoeuvre and seize key terrain, usually after armoured units had created a breakthrough and the enemy line was in chaos

>they would have wanted more bradleys to increase the number of mech divisions they could deplpy
Cost would have precluded that. It's just not possible for every infantry unit to be equipped with Bradleys. Even at peak Cold War armies still had to field both heavy mechanised IFV units and light infantry, especially for the second line units and the National Guard. A hi-low mix generally performs better than a uniform medium given the same cost.
Besides cost, any wheeled infantry would at least have been ferried around in Strykers.

>>64165451 (OP)
No, building an F-35 is so hard you need americans to invent it and show foreigners how their own inventions work together, because euros are safe space no risk bitches.

>>64172277
>and the Stryker as a battle taxi
M113-equipped units were re-equipped with M2 bradley on a 1:1 basis
infantry units remained as they were, primarily foot-mobile units
stryker brigades were wholly new units

the army didnt believe in battle taxis at all, so the M113 was intended to be phased out of the combat role entirely in favor of the M2 bradley

>>64167738
WAY too much time autistically editing and fighting with AI then just doing half of it myself BUT...
This is the american version. We should get together and make this for both of us.

>one more country conquered by the PASI
I fully expect the remaining balts and Netherland to join the CAVS program soon

>>64172314
100% AI off my like 20% AI version, more "american", more "cold war", minus gun. Does it need the gun?

>>64172326
Oh uh... low axis ERA I guess that one slipped by kek. Let's go for a ride!
But either one doesn't much change the Finn design and I like it more. It needs a standard cope cage set that is modular these days. Or someone needs to invent land vehicle CIWS with shotgun rounds.

>>64169534
>Chibi BTR
Patria makes 8x8 Anime Music Videos as well.

You're already dead.

>>64172314
I still can't believe that Estonians fell for the roach scam, but at least they will keep and modernize the Pasi they already have

>>64172345
Just from playing with it in an editor and shit... I like it more. I like the second design I posted for the drone deck. And the drone has a rifle that recoils in line with prop push in the right position.
Maybe in old M85 or is it 81 jungle pattern...

>>64172287
>infantry units remained as they were, primarily foot-mobile units
>stryker brigades were wholly new units
Nope
1st SBCT was a foot infantry unit from 2nd Infantry Division
2nd SBCT was from 25th Infantry Division, another light infantry unit
3rd SBCT was another light infantry unit from Alaska
4th SBCT descended ultimately from 2nd ACR which had given up its heavy mechanised vehicles in the post-Cold War drawdown to be an infantry unit, which like the others mainly employed the Humvee and trucks

In part this is due to the post-Cold War drawdown, in part because once again: Strykers replace M113s, Humvees and trucks in combat. They fulfil a specific role, not just as people-carriers of whatever motive system is handy.

>>64172337
>Patria makes 8x8 Anime Music Videos as well.

Are you such a fool that you dare engage the DPRK in a music video contest?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gknEO820n00&list=RDgknEO820n00&start_radio=1

>>64172372
>NKMV Hell
I'll never hear Inspector Gadget again without thinking of uniformed North Korean titties bob bob bobbing along

>>64172355
>Nope
stryker brigades are their own unit distinct from infantry
infantry were not equipped with strykers, they were converted into a stryker brigade
they are infantry in name only, like how the 1st infantry division is actually an armored division
but infantry are still primarily vehicle equipped and strykers go in their seperate unit

>>64172372
>DPRK
Goddamnit norktard, the topic was the next hyperwar between the great hwan empire and proto-finnic holy roman khaganate.

>>64172386
>they were converted into a stryker brigade
Right
Which is not the same as
>>64172355
>infantry units remained as they were, primarily foot-mobile units
>stryker brigades were wholly new units

As I'd said earlier, the point of Strykers was to convert former humvee/truck infantry units into APC-equipped units
Mainly because... rolling around in vehicles that aren't even bulletproof and get colandered by the least little artillery frag is no bueno

>>64172399
>the point of Strykers was to convert former humvee/truck infantry units into APC-equipped units
IBCTs remained only humvee equipped, they didnt replace anything
stryker units are new units with their own TOE
the infantry units didnt have their humvees replaced with strykers, they changed designation

>>64172404
>the infantry units didnt have their humvees replaced with strykers, they changed designation
Okay, however you want to describe that then. Use your words if that makes you happy.

OH FUGG :DDD
BaDDLE TAGSI

>>64172391
The fact that the DPRK makes better music than Finland is very important, in a era of hybrid warfare the Norks are crushing Finland. The Hwan Empire is winning the war. Militarily, technologically, memeticly and musically it is crushing it.

Suck it spurdo, unless you have been sleeping for the last 30 years the autism pyramid has been rebuilt and it is in Pyongyang!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdVZDI1GT34

>>64172423
For the record it really is a amazingly solid building.

>>64169534
>Cargo cult
Why are turd worlders obsessed with this phrase?

>>64172472
Turdworlders are like parrots, they just repeat any bullshit that seems to have been said in previous similar situations without understanding what the word means
They're just mimicking mouth noises, basically, and hoping it'll scare off predators

There IS a real cargo cult mentality going on but I don't think that it applies here

>>64169534
not jank enough for cargo cult, retard.

>>64172472
>>64172476
>>64172489

I have no idea, it is sort of silly. The way the phrase 'cargo cult' is used makes no sense.

>All armored vehicles are 'cargo cult' armored cars from pre WW1
>US civil war iron clads are 'cargo cult' copies of Korean Kobuksans
>All guns are 'cargo cult' copies of medieval era Chinese weapons
>Chinese gunpower weapons are 'cargo cult' copies of Korean rockets
>The US Moon landing was a 'cargo cult' copy of Indian Mysore rockets
>internal combustion engines are just 'cargo cult' copies of some theoretical drawing from 1400

You even asking the question is you being obssessed with Cargo Cults, can't you have a original idea? Why do you keep worshipping cargo cults?

>>64172503
>internal combustion engines are just 'cargo cult' copies of some theoretical drawing from 1400
*roman steam turbines from 40BC or so

>>64172520
Exactly.

So anyone who was using a steam turbine past 40BC is just a cargo cultist and should be ignored as a mentally/racially/genetically/culturally inferior idiot.

I'm glad we cleared that up!

>>64172503
Well don't allow your language to be niggered!
CARGO CULT= The act of worshipping a lost connection to a more advanced society by creating fundamentally non-functional monuments to that society's trappings, made out of far worse materials.

IF you miss americans and want them back and make a stick and paper F-35 = CARGO CULT

IF you think americans have the cool shit and make a J-35 because you wish you had an F-35 = POORFAG COPE

>>64172545
You really do wish to be completely retarded instead of partly retarded don't you. Just abandon the trip and you'd instantly be less irritating. At this point it doesn't even do anything for you.

>>64173323
No no he should leave the trip on so I don't have to guess whether a post is norkfagging or just retarded

>>64169722
That's just an AMV clone

>>64172314
Looks like a render some turk upstart would use.

>>64173426
It has nothing to do with the AMV, it's more of a SuperAV with less wheels.

>>64169534
Reminder that Soviets made the BTR-60 without a roof for troop dismount, then realized not having a roof on your battle taxi is sub-optimal to say the least, so now the troops have to dismount through a small door on the side because the engine is in the rear.
And then they made the BTR-70 without addressing this issue.
And then they made the BTR-80 without addressing this issue.

I guess you should not expect anything from a MIC that approved BMDs as adequate transport

>>64173309
'Cargo cult' is an appropriate comparison and arose naturally. It's just the way Asian militaries work. It's how Japan modernized and China after them. Japan has successfully integrated so much of Western thinking that they now develop in parallel, whereas some other societies in this region haven't yet reached this stage.
They all study the West very closely. The US in particular is almost always their role model.

>>64165451 (OP)
I wouldn't worry about it.
If we'd start building your warships as well at that point you might want to take a pause and think, or not more money for us that way.