Thread 64167112

Wouldnt soft body armor be good for most people and police? Since the kind of guns they would most likely go against is handguns with hollow points or even fmj's that dont pierce 3a? Whats the use case for steel plates for you as a larperator? Foreign military invasion into rural Minnesota?

>>64167112 (OP)
yeah. except the steel plate part, steel plates are shit.

>>64167112 (OP)
Use whatever you're comfortable with.

>>64167112 (OP)
Nobody on this board would ever advocate for steel plates.
That said level iii uhmwpe plates are cheap, weigh only a bit more as compared to iiia soft armor, and can stop the same threats + m193 5.56.

>>64167235
Level III UHMWPE plates lose very easily to M855, however, and even rounds like 5.7 SS190. Steel plates generally best M855 very well, spall aside, but lose to M193 and carry a massive weight penalty.
Ceramics are the way to go unless you need very low weight (PE) or extreme multi hit tolerance (steel) such as armoring a technical.

>>64167248
III+ stops both. but I agree, level IV ceramics are the way.

>>64167248
Yeah thanks chatGPT but cost factors into it, which is why I said level iiis are cheap. Obviously uhmwpes lose out to m855, but for OP he was asking about what most people are likely to face. If he’s worried about avg threats on “da streets” (make of that what you will, I’m not here for a racial conversation but we all know his concern) then that’ll be pistol rounds, or at most a draco shooting soft-steel-cores x39 or a short barrel AR pistol shooting freedom bucket supplied .223. Lvl iii PEs give the best cost to protection ratio for the average person.
Not that i don’t agree with you. Everyone should have good plates.

>>64167259
>III+
Unofficial rating, can mean anything. Steel plates often rate for M193 at 2,950 or 3,100ft/s and call themselves III+. PE plates add M193 at the full 3,250ft/s and call themselves III+, but no M855 defeat aside from very low velocities. Then we get into III++.
III+ M855/M193 ceramics like the Hesco 3810 / 3811 or the M855A1 rated LTC 19513 or Hesco 3411 are excellent generalist plates.
Level IV plates often carry less multi hit but stop much tougher threats. M855A1, M80A1, and of course .30-06 M2AP. They are also cheaper than III+ aside from the high end lightweights.

>>64167273
yeah, it's unofficial but the manufacturers specifically state it's for M855. but like I said, level IV ceramics are better.

>>64167271
I must have lost my em dashes or whatever. Anyways, a cursory look on social media will show ARPs with green tips are increasingly popular. M855 is a serious street threat. For this reason, SMEs like Doc Roberts were advising against PE plates as early as 2014.
PE plates also tend to be more expensive than entry Level IV ceramics. Hesco 4403s are $410 a set. The sub par RMA 1155 is $200 a set on sale but sucks and is NIJ suspended.

>>64167288
Test reports. Do not trust the manufacturer unless they're vetted. Hesco, LTC, Tencate, Ceradyne*, Highcom*, Point Blank, BAE Systems.

*Be careful on select models

>>64167248
>Level III UHMWPE plates lose very easily to M855
that's not true. even a 14.5" barrel has about 50% chance to penetrate one at close range.
>and even rounds like 5.7 SS190
this is a blatant lie

>>64167299
yeah, I know.

>>64167311
It's velocity-dependent and also depends on the plate. Buffman shot a PE plate a while ago that lost to 9x19mm DM91.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l3kvxXP_yM
Unless you can provide test reports, PE soft armor is chronically weak to hard-core threats. There are other videos showing this. SS190 is similar to SS109 (M855) and going at sufficient speed will beat typical III PE.
>50%
Under the NIJ 50% is still a fail. Nobody here should be trusting coin flip armor.

So to add onto the prior point, there are technically different compositions of PE available and later Spectra 6000 does perform a little better.
There are two specialty all-PE plates that claim to defeat M855 at or around RF2 spec velocity. Combat Systems' RF2 and the LTC 28855. Nobody knows if the former can really pull it off. Nobody knows if the latter even exists.
Most PE plates are, with some variation, as weak to hard-core threats as steel plates are to M193. They are not ideal for street use unless you need concealability a la the Hesco 3801LV. Even then, the ceramic-PE Hesco Z210 may be a better pick. If budget is a problem hit up the Hesco T212.

>>64167328
*PE soft armor
meant to say hard armor here. whoops, lol. Also as a last note, any all-PE plates that can reliably handle M855 cost more and weigh more than their ceramic equivalents. Hesco 3810 mogs the Combat Systems plate. Hesco 3811 moreso.

>>64167112 (OP)
What a silly animal :DDD

>>64167328
?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0reF82nweo

>>64167398
PASGT is aramid, not polyethylene.

>>64167398
that's level II soft armor my guy. I don't know what your trying to say.

>>64167408
Not even. PASGT is frag rated late 70s vintage. Level II needs to handle 6x .357 Magnum within 44mm BFD.

>>64167421
*IIa* my bad. it can stop low velocity 9mm and .40

>>64167425
I agree, IIA is probably the safe estimate. Level I would be a lowball since that's just .38 and .22. II probably gets too much BFD.

>>64167425
I was gonna mention my PASGT vest stopped a 9mm at 5 yards

Look in the name (slang term rather): FLAK jacket. It's meant for shrapnel and works as a bullet resistant vest as a side offer.

Still luv my pasgt gear though, it's thick so extra peace of mind

>>64167430
There are some commercial updated PASGTs from the 80s-90s that sport actual IIIA protection, but they mostly were a SWAT thing. IIIA was added in an NIJ revision, I think 0101.02 or 0101.03, largely as a SWAT soft armor rating to counter 9x19 SMG threats and large caliber revolvers.
Ceramic rifle plates have been around since the 60s, see VBAGT and chicken aircrew plates, and have always been the go-to for serious shit.

>>64167445
My PASGT vest is from '95 but it's in the standard camo colors which means it's probably military and not SWAT unfortunately

Still gonna rock it in the Civil War that's gonna break out on September 23rd

>>64167467
Based. Complete the look with a 1996 ISAPO overvest so you can meet Level III.

>>64167112 (OP)
Plates are in principle for opposing government overreach. But yeah, low profile soft armor is absolutely the more useful EDC, yet you never see it. I guess the idea is you have body armor in the boot of your car that you run to when you hear gunshots, and if you're taking the time to suit up, you might as well have rifle protection.

>>64167486
A good idea is soft armor for EDC, but copy what cops do and keep a slick carrier with SRT plates in your trunk as emergency throw-on. M855A1 protection covers all urban bases. Hesco T212s are cheap but ill-advised for the sticks due to a lack of .308 rating.
There are plates you can wear covertly, VS-PSTES, VS-PULV, or the new all-PE ultralight PULV, but they make a lot of compromises.

>>64167475
I wanna have this type of look on Sep. 23rd

(feds if you think something is being staged, this is satire)

>>64167508
>this is satire
Son of a a fuck

What are the best options for concealable 3a soft armor?

>>64167515
Maybe I am predicting an civil war by accident, who knows?

I am still extremely nervous for Sep. 23rd

>>64167516
Absolute best white-side is Hardwire 68 or Crye LVS. Alternates hit up Point Blank. If you're strapped Stealth Armor Systems.
>>64167524
Gee I hope not.

>>64167537
In a civil war all the /k/ommandos should make a paramilitary and fight for whichever side is better, or create /k/onstantinople

We could take pictures like in the 90s

>>64167554
I even have 90s digital cameras. Perfection.

>>64167565
>90s digital cameras
You mean tape cameras right? I used to have a MiniDV Canon ZR60 back in the day but the tape deck broke about 2 or 3 years ago. 90s tape cameras were Hi8 and that shit.

I'm currently using a Hitachi HDD camera which is about the same as my old ZR60 quality wise. The still photo mode sucks dick though because it doesn't let the resolution go above "fine" whereas video can go to "xtra"

>>64167586
No, floppy disk cams. Sony.

>>64167592
I fucking knew it. I literally thought to myself
>no way he has one of those FD cameras, he's probably talking about Hi8 or something

Alas, Anon owns a FD cam. Based

>>64167599
Bingo bango. FD91 is badass.

>>64167602
Do you have any pics from it? I reckon the image quality won't be anything too bad but I don't imagine it will be anything too good

Pic from mine of a homeless guy I saw wearing Desert Night camo

>>64167112 (OP)
>Whats the use case for [overt armor] for you as a larperator?
Civil war, government tyranny justifying participation in a domestic insurgency or simply civil unrest of the sort we saw in 2020 but threatening my home and/or family.
The latter's the most likely imo, my neighbors and I had a few conversations about what we'd do to keep our area safe if the riots worsened back then.

I've also got a scalable plate carrier that's set up as a bump in the night kit atm but is pretty concealable if I strip the mags and ifak. That's what I'd wear in a natural disaster if I was bugging out and wanted something I could wear without drawing attention or if we're caught in some sort of slow disintegration of society where I need to start wearing armor for my commute.
A concealable soft vest would offer better coverage and probably be a little easier to conceal but this all seems unlikely enough that I don't care to drop the cash for yet another setup with only a marginal improvement.

>>64167289
An ARP with greentips will not penetrate PE level IIIs since even 12 -14” ARs with green meanies have a 50/50 chance of getting stopped by the PEs.

>>64169071
>will not penetrate PE level IIIs
Depends entirely on the model in question and what exact variant of UHMWPE they're using. Unless you can provide definitive test reports proving otherwise, they are at risk of being penetrated by M855. Burden rests on the plate.
Upthread there's a PE plate that literally loses to 9x19mm DM91 - which is tungsten core but extremely slow in comparison. Also inferior geometry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l3kvxXP_yM
Other plates, such as the RMA #1003, do in fact get trounced by 5.7 SS190. While that's only a "IIIA+" PE plate, it is rifle rated and only not Level III because of insufficient multi-hit against 7.62x51 M80.
Saying that an ARP will not penetrate any PE Level III is a massive, sweeping overgeneralization. They're a crapshoot against hard-core threats, and are more expensive than their ceramic counterparts.
Example #1: Hesco 3404 is $540, ceramic Hesco 3411 is $370 and rated to M855A1 / BZ API. Prices per plate.
Example #2: RMA #1165 is $250, ceramic. Level IV.
Example #3: Hesco 3800 is $640, ceramic Hesco 3810 is $599.
Example #4: Hesco 4403, while heavy, is $205 a plate on a good day. Level IV.
It's true that PE plates are lighter, but not definitively enough to make them viable general-use plates. The Hesco 3800 is 2.2lb, the Hesco 3810 is 3.9lb and can stop M855A1 on a rough v50 basis - see Buffman test. M855 is no problem, six hits per Hesco's data, none. Between the 3800 and 3810 you're compromising reliable M855 defeat to save 3.4lb. The newer 3811 is $1,355 a set and only 3.4lb a piece, reducing the weight disadvantage to only 2.4lb versus the 3800. There is a 3801 PE plate at 1.95lb, but it's unproven and curiously lacks NIJ certification versus its ceramic and earlier counterparts.

You should also never settle for a v50 against a common threat. "50/50 chance" is still a fail. The enemy won't shoot just once.

>>64167112 (OP)
I have always thought that concealable soft armor makes more sense for civilians. Wearing a plate carrier only draws unnecessary attention. Nobody in the gun world will tell people that less is more because theres big money in tactical gear.

Anyways, because this point keeps coming up, pic related is a chart from rifleshooter.com showing 62gr M855 at various barrel lengths. For reference, when Buffman busts the RMA #1003 with 31gr SS190, which has far less sectional density, it is going 2,154ft/s. When he defeats another PE plate with 9x19mm DM91, it is going about 1,600ft/s. Again, that is 9x19mm.

As per the chart, M855 does NOT fall below SS190's velocity until you get to a 7" barrel or shorter. Keep in mind again that M855 is a 62gr projectile and SS190 is only 31gr, literally half the weight for the same projectile diameter. Huge reduction in sectional density and length-diameter ratio.

As it stands, since you obviously cannot control what barrel length an "ARP" is, you're severely at risk against ARPs when running PE plates unless you have credible test reports showing otherwise.

>>64169268
This is the generally correct take. There are less-than-overt plates around, like the Tencate CR6450SA, Hesco Z210, LTC 28791, VelSys PBZSA, Armor Forge MK-VI Casper if you're brave and got $$$, but across the board they're expensive and compromise certain qualities versus overt counterparts.
However, they're all thin enough you can likely wear a slick carrier plus the plates under a jacket and walk around incognito.

>>64167112 (OP)
I am more interested in concealable armor desu, seems more practical in the real world and way more effay

>>64169330
Buy yourself some Hardwire 68 suit man.

ARPs are too common. id want plates.

>>64169339
If you have the scratch, Hesco Z210s are a good pick. M193, M855, 7.62x39 mild steel core. No dice against .308. It's strictly a "street" plate but is thin enough to conceal.