Thread 64172015

Is stealth overrated?

>>64172015 (OP)
Yes...in training BFM scenarios. How did the Rafale do in its recent real A2A engagements btw?

>>64172015 (OP)
Stealth =/= invisibility
You know this.

Stealth = low observability
A radar will have a more difficult time detecting it untill it gets close enough. Close enough to get HARMed.

>>64172015 (OP)
Visual range dogfights using gun are overrated.
Who have largest war in the Europe (an largest war since WWII considering forces involved) for 3 years and we had exactly 0 (zero) gun dogfights between fighter aircrafts.

>>64172027
We have rc toys partying like it's the sea of Japan at least.

>>64172015 (OP)
more like underrated
despite being one of the most critical things a plane could have in this day and age, you still have idiots like OP questioning their importance

>IRST Pirate can see subsonic planes up to 100km+
>F35 is supersonic
Just have a Eurofighter+A meteor missile and call it a day.

>>64172049
>>IRST Pirate can see subsonic planes up to 100km+
What is angle of view in this mode and how long does it take to scan 120*40 degrees sector?

>>64172015 (OP)
>guns only dogfight
>clearly in low energy state
>trying to pull lead
>fail and stall
>f22 just casually goes over the top
the video you posted is showing an absolute mogging but it's also the exact opposite of what you think it is

>>64172058
> Both elements have been stabilized, the maximum azimuth and elevation range is probably 150 ° × 60 °.
>The range of the sensor is a closely guarded secret by the EuroFirst consortium but confirmed to be more than 74 km. he RAND Corporation reports ranges of 50 nm (93 km) to a subsonic target from the front and up to 90 nm (167 km) from the rear of a subsonic target
>It can track and prioritized up to 500 targets simultaneously
>Time
Couldnt find data about it

>>64172067
True, but does it does get within range and with more than enough time to properly acquire the F22 in the second attempt. If the F22 had gotten a kill while it went over the top, then the dogfight wouldn't have continued because the plane would be dead. Otherwise the only explanation would be the pilot coping hard and continuing the engagement despite being dead.

>>64172015 (OP)
>stealth
>VFR BFM
lol

>>64172015 (OP)
Man that looks fun.

>>64172015 (OP)
>Is knowing where your opponent is important to engage it?
You tell me

>>64172327
>OTHR tells you the general location
>Just shoot at them IR missiles
Yep

>>64172015 (OP)
>Yoooo le bird radar signature
>*Adds a filter to show 'birds' flying at Mach 9000*
Always was a meme.

>>64172327
>OTHR tells you the general location
>Just shoot at them IR missiles

>>64172049
EOTS and DAS mogs that shitty TV camera

>>64172332
>>64172357
You realize tgat this is literally a kindergarden "nuh uh, my plane is too stealthy for you to pick up yet" fight
Even delaying the your identification by 50nm could mean that you win the fight

>just shoot 'IR missiles' with every irregular radar contact bro
>wdum aircraft fly at supersonic speed and the 'general area' is hundreds of kilometers wide

>>64172015 (OP)
Short answer, no. There's a constant pressure to downplay stealth since aggressive nations without stealth tech want to downplay how much it's going to fuck them over. At the same time, the US government doesn't care about stealth's reputation. Underestimating stealth works in the US's favor.

>>64172347
>Enemy looks for supersonic radar contacts.
>Deliberately fly subsonic.
>End up saving money on fuel and maintenance.
Problem?

>>64172357
>Heat seeking AIM-9x range of 20 miles
>Radar guided AIM-120D range of 85 miles.

>>64172409
Except for the circumstance where Russoid shilling breaks through to the mainstream media and you end up with the situation where normies are shit scared of the Potemkin teddy bear without reason. I actually believe this is why Trump has been so soft on Putin, he has spent most of his life being told how scary Russia is militarily and he's unwilling to trust his own advisors' assurances that they're not ten miles tall.

It doesn't matter if a single MEF could win the Ukraine war in a month if the Commander in Chief doesn't have the vision, forethought or strength of character to deploy it

>Bla bla bla luck
>Bla bla bla Only one
He shoot it down(state of the art stealth plane that just came out) using a 1950 era SAM with fucking WW2 radar waves

>>64172463
stealth was doing exactly what it was supposed to do
it made it extremely difficult to shoot it down

>>64172464
You threat it like it makes you invulnerable and youcant work around it or counter it.
Like fucking night vision.
Just shoot a Flare in the air or use smoke.

>>64172463
A better question is: why didn't the serbs do nothing? So far it's been proven to be the winning strategy against the US. Look at the taliban, literally do nothing and they won in afghanistan

>>64172469
>You threat it like it makes you invulnerable and youcant work around it or counter it.
even with the most possible counter-measures to defeat stelath, its still a much more difficult task to shoot down a stealth aircraft than any other
the overmatch between a force that does and doesnt have stealth would be more or less insurmountable

>>64172480
>Insurmountable
You can work around jt though.
The insurection against Assad didnt have airplanes nor artillery.
It worked around them and still won.

>>64172487
>You can work around jt though.
you really cant
if your CnC assets can be struck without warning and without any way to dissuade attacks, then the war is as good as lost
even the blackhawk shootdown didnt actually stop the bombing campaign

>>64172490
>if your CnC assets can be struck without warning and without any way to dissuade attacks, then the war is as good as lost
Not realy,
There are a thousands way to works around everything.
See how The guerrilias without Airpower or arty beat The Assads regime.
And again if you are hard to kill,
Since you dont have to always be on the defensive(See houthies) you can force the enemy to fuck off

>>64172496
>Not realy
if the enemy can target your command nodes, and you cant stop them, then its game over
you cant coordinate your defenses and enemy forces can defeat your forces in detail
and it wont stop there, they can hit supply dumps and interdict supplies
so your forces are all blind and impotent
at this point, your only option is to surrender

>>64172500
>command nodes,
Yeah staying in the same place isnt advised in thst case.
Again see houthies, or the guy that overthrew Assad.
Didnt have Jets or helicopters.
But they did have Thermals so there is that.
For example the Tirpitz used Costal batteries to keep itself hiden from Allied scout planes.
You can use Light mortars to cope with lack of CAS.
Amd cope with enemy CAS by being mobile.
You can use drones to cope with that too, You can make drones have image recognition to cope With EW.
And you can make the fly low to the ground to cope with APS.
You can also shoot from multiple angles on tanks using coordinate fire to deal with that.

>>64172516
>You can use Light mortars to cope with lack of CAS.
cope indeed
you are trying to use an oversized handgrenade to hit targets you used 1000lb bombs on

>Amd cope with enemy CAS by being mobile.
your troops all need to be coordinated to stay mobile
decapitation strikes prevents this from happening, forcing your units to act piecemeal

>>64172463
>F-117s continue to bomb Serbia after the shoot down.
>No other F-117 shot down.

>>64172463
Don't ask s*rbs how many missiles they needed to shoot down a crop duster with boiler bombs. Or how come they had more red on red incidents than enemy aircraft shot down

>>64172015 (OP)
No.

>>64172453
>I actually believe this is why Trump has been so soft on Putin
You are wrong, trump is nationalistically dependent on putin and thats why he goes so soft on the mad monke, he is essentially Peter III reborn

>>64172487
Assad only had russian planes and not even a great deal of those

>>64172692
Somehow fucked that one up without noticing, trump is narcissistically dependent on Putin

>>64172015 (OP)
If you're that close you dont even need radar/IR you can literally have a normal camera lock onto it

>>64172453
Yeah, the system kinda breaks down when an idiot gets in charge.

>>64172453
People were genuinely losing their shit at boomers being deployed in the Arctic

>>64173290
I never thought about it but yeah, that would scare the shit out of everyone.

>>64172015 (OP)
its a hoax

>>64172692
everyone thought russia had pee tapes to blackmail trump when it was likely "P" tapes instead.

>>64172496
Assad got killed by sanctions and the US military soft occupying the part of the country with oil. They finally folded because nobody was being paid, and it took a decade to get to that point.

I'd say the only thing that video shows me is a little too much of modern targeting calculator's abilities, but it's a staged training, visual range, guns fight.
The entire video is completely irrelevant.

>>64174369
Hey, it can be both. It's very likely both, even.

>>64172024
by handicapping the stealth aspect, they both started in visual fight, meaning stealth was nerf'd

stealth is priority in stealth planes, shocker.

every time, zooomg, f22 or f35 got smoked, its cause stealth was nerf'd cause if they didnt, war games end with bvr shoot down, cause stealth.

>>64172573
>one more hit and had to be scrapped after returning to Germany
>another one allegedly hit and had to be flown to CONUS while tethered to a tanker

>>64172761
Pierre Sprey was right

>>64174869
Are you suggesting Putin provided Trump a Golden Shower?

>>64176073
Wad this before or after that serb shoved a bottle up his ass?

>>64176073
Still not a shoot down AND F-117 attacks continued until the end of the war.