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Thread 64175842

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Anonymous No.64175842 >>64175880 >>64175883 >>64175897 >>64175968 >>64175997 >>64176005 >>64176957 >>64178007 >>64178045 >>64180193 >>64181412 >>64181506 >>64182566
If Germany had won what would their arsenal look like?
Anonymous No.64175880 >>64179139
>>64175842 (OP)
fg42 mass issue
Anonymous No.64175883
>>64175842 (OP)
mp40, but bigger
Anonymous No.64175897 >>64175920 >>64177482
>>64175842 (OP)
Impossible to know. Might be they would retain 8x33, might be they would go for a more slender cartridge at some point afterwards. Might be they keep using tilting block rifles like STG44, might be they go for roller locked systems like they were already being developed during the war. Might be they adopt short stroke piston systems eventually.
Anonymous No.64175920 >>64177482
>>64175897
The STG 45 was the planned replacement already so they definitely would. The MG 42 would probably still be in service like it already is in the real world
Anonymous No.64175968 >>64177643
>>64175842 (OP)
Japan would have Gundams, Germany and US would be stuck in an arms race to space.
Anonymous No.64175997 >>64181351 >>64181517
A huge component of Goth Phase Germany's strategy was pitting their own staff against one another, in a bit of a Darwinian struggle. This led to some... Silliness. The STG-44, for example, was first produced as the MP-44, to keep the brass from rejecting the project outright. That was Little Dark Age Germany's legacy in weapons development; Fancy resources, world class designers, constant infighting, and an expensive Wunderwaffle for every occasion.

>>64175842 (OP)
Considering their insistence on traditionalism, and internal mythology, Germany (maybe?) wouldn't have adopted H&K-style designs such as those shown. That adoption would also be difficult because of the G3's development path: A German improvement upon a Spanish iteration of a German prototype. Germany wins, the STG-45 stays under wraps, the CETME Model-58 is never built... You get the idea. It gets hairy, fast.
Then, there's Germany's victory. This ain't that discussion, but to keep it a buck fifty: The moment America entered, Germany was screwed. Some would say that the moment Germany made an enemy of the USSR, they had already lost. Basically, depending on how they win in this scenario, and how they win, the whole game changes. It's a butterfly effect. Germany wins, America never enters the war, John Garand continues happily ice-skating in his basement, the M14 is never developed, its lackluster performance never generates the impetus for the adoption of the M16, so on, so forth. It devolves into Asimov's psychohistory; Most of the same developments (Polymer receivers, intermediate cartridges, equivalents to the fire team), none of the same players, with random variables changing the entire pattern at random.

And then, there's the simple fact that Nightcore Germany was burning social capital, itching to go to war with the entire world at the same time. They were allergic to winning, no matter which cool tech they developed.

Long story short, you get one major benefit: No rear charging handles.
Anonymous No.64176000 >>64176006
stg45(m) in 7.92kurz, x57 and 9
mg45 + maybe 7.92kurz saw
g43 and fg42 converted to 7.92kurz because why not
mp40, sniper 98k and g43 still around
rifle grenades, rifle grenades everywhere
rpg-2-style panzerfaust
hi-power + walther p5 20 years earlier
Anonymous No.64176002 >>64177512
Do my eyes deceive me, or is that an UMP with stamped receivers? What a fucking vibe!!

>inb4 it’s “a UMP”
No, it’s “an UMP”, because I pronounce it “uhmp” (the correct way)
Anonymous No.64176005
>>64175842 (OP)
>antimatter rayguns
>gauss rifles
>disintegrator cannons
>foo fighters armed with laser weapons
only thing that would have let them win the war
Anonymous No.64176006 >>64176957
>>64176000
You don’t think they’d ditch 8mm Kurz for a true SCHV cartridge? The Russians ditched their Kurz-analog for 5.45. And it is the consensus of all the world’s militaries that an isometric scaling of the full power cartridge is the superior intermediate cartridge config.
Anonymous No.64176630
Walther MPL replaces MP40
CETME-like guns replace Kar98
MG42 is eternal
Anonymous No.64176957
>>64175842 (OP)
They would probably have the Persuadatron from Syndicate, along with a cloning machine and a machine which turns captivew into crude oil, along with a magic ray which shuts down the atoms in American nuclear weapons.

>>64176006
They would absolutely replace 7.92x33mm with something better if they had the chance and means, be that just a slimmer bodied 7.92mm cartridge or something smaller caliber in 5mm to 7mm.
7.92x33mm is an awful and clunky cartridge, but it made the necessary compromises to be able to be put into use, which makes it alright enough.
Anonymous No.64177482 >>64177993
>>64175897
>>64175920
they were definitely going to replace 8mm kurz eventually
the cartridge was basically a proof of concept, 556 or a similar slim cartridge manages to go farther and go faster, have better trajectories, and can be ligher

Remember, 8mm kurz' contemporaries were shit like 30 carbine
Anonymous No.64177512 >>64177577
>>64176002
>is that an UMP with stamped receivers?
Anon...
Anonymous No.64177577 >>64178046
>>64177512
Ah fuck. It’s not my eyes that deceive me, it’s my stupid fucking brain lol. Why didn’t MP5 immediately spring to mind?
Anonymous No.64177643
>>64175968
Japan would be a crater in the ocean because Germany would destroy them after Japan's eventual betrayal and weak ass power grab.
Anonymous No.64177993 >>64180267
>>64177482
.30 U.S Carbine doesn't even really compare to 7.92x33mm, the latter has way more effective range and better terminal ballistics.
I never liked the notion of calling it an intermediate cartridge, because it doesn't really fit, it was never meant as a dedicated infantry rifle, it was meant to provide a more practical defensive weapon to non-grunt personnel than pistols and revolvers.
Anonymous No.64178007 >>64178064
>>64175842 (OP)
The same like now. The StG45 evolved to the CETME/G3.
Anonymous No.64178045
>>64175842 (OP)
It would look pretty much like what you just posted.
Anonymous No.64178046
>>64177577
Probably for the same reason you think it's called the ump and not the You Emm Pee
(Fetal alcohol syndrome)
Anonymous No.64178064 >>64180267
>>64178007
Yeah, but 7.92x33mm proved itself so well in combat that they wouldn't have gone to CETME/G3 style full powered infantry rifles in 7.92x57mm. They would probably keep that as a machinegun cartridge, that's logical, but the next obvious step would be to make a replacement intermediate cartridge, and probably iterate on the Stg-45s to refine them and see which would work best after all.
Anonymous No.64178644
Anonymous No.64179139
>>64175880
This. Even their shotguns would have fg42 vibes
Anonymous No.64180193 >>64180232
>>64175842 (OP)
How the hell could anyone reasonably answer that?
Anonymous No.64180232
>>64180193
What, you can’t game out 80 years of an alternate reality in your head? You retarded or something?
Anonymous No.64180267 >>64180303 >>64181333 >>64181367
>>64177993
The primary difference between the two is the spitzer bullet, which really transforms the ballistics of the round. Otherwise both of them have trajectories of a souped up pistol cartridge.

>>64178064
>7.92x33mm proved itself so well in combat that they wouldn't have gone to CETME/G3 style full powered infantry rifles in 7.92x57mm
They literally did so post war despite having zero pressure to do so. You're simply delusional over the perceived impact and effectiveness of the 7.92 kurz.
Anonymous No.64180303
>>64180267
BUT the first CETME evaluation rifles had puny cartridges. It might well have been 8mm Kurz they stuck with for a long-ass time.
Anonymous No.64181333
>>64180267
>The primary difference between the two is the spitzer bullet
That helps, but you're not going to catch up to 7.92x33mm by loading a spitzer in .30 U.S Carbine, when you neck that cartridge down to a 40gr .22 caliber FMJ spitzer to create .22 Spitfire (aka 5.7mm Johnson), that DOES significantly improve its performance, but it's still 30% less powerful than 5.56x45mm NATO, owing to the lighter bullet and lighter powder charge.

.30 U.S Carbine is a small rifle cartridge made for defensive use at close ranges, and closer analogues in my opinion are the FN P90 and H&K MP7, which are not assault rifles.
7.92x33mm Kurz, 7.62x39mm, 5.56x45mm, and 5.45x39mm, these are all medium sized infantry rifle cartridges intended for full on infantry combat, intended to reach out as far as grunts realistically will fight.
Anonymous No.64181351
>>64175997
>Considering their insistence on traditionalism, and internal mythology, Germany (maybe?) wouldn't have adopted H&K-style designs such as those shown
Hitler was obsessed with the "every rifleman a sniper" philosophy, so maybe a G43 adoption followed by a full powered battle rifle as a compromise with the army after they realised that they need something for close ranges. Maybe you could see a coexistence between some Stg45 derived assault rifle and a battle rifle
Anonymous No.64181367
>>64180267
>They literally did so post war despite having zero pressure to do so
West Germany did not have the means to support the 7.92x33mm in the rebuild stage, and later on they would be drawn into 7.62x51mm NATO like everyone else.
The early rebuild Bundeswehr was rocking Mausers because that's what was in wide supply and which WW2 veterans already knew how to handle.

It was East Germany who had enough leftover that they could still use 7.92x33mm and Stg-44s after the war to some extent, but once they got on the AK train they would not look back. East Germany would give away Stg-44s as military aid, along with repackaged ammunition, which is a reason why a bunch ended up in Africa and the Middle East during the Cold War.

>You're simply delusional over the perceived impact and effectiveness of the 7.92 kurz.
I think you're deluded to deny it. It's an imperfect cartridge and rifle, but it's a type of cartridge which is extremely practical for grunts, and they made sure praise it every chance they had.

Volksgrenadier divisions with Sturmgewehrs managed to hold their own against American divisions in spite of smaller numbers, in large part thanks to the sheer force multiplication of assault rifles, and it was just as effective on the Eastern Front.
Anonymous No.64181412
>>64175842 (OP)
Germans loved the M1 Carbine, it was the most popular thing to take as a trophy. So obviously, if The Third Reich won, they would have developed along the lines of the M1 or M2 Carbine and eventually settle on something like an overcomplicated Mini 14 without a rock and lock mag.
Anonymous No.64181506
>>64175842 (OP)
It probably would have developed over almost the same lines as what actually happened
Anonymous No.64181517
>>64175997
Goddamn you love verbosity, are you paid by the word?
Anonymous No.64182566
>>64175842 (OP)
punch a nazi