Thread 64198699

Now that silencers are about to be $0, are we going to see a bunch of cool new integrally-suppressed rifles here in the US?
>yes, I am aware that the NATO subreddit on 4chan (also known as /k/) is generally disgusted by Russia and her military technology and guns, and some autist is sure to bring up how the suppressors on these guns are basically just washers or something, but still they have a couple of the most iconic integrally-suppressed rifles so they fit for an OP pic

probably not. the big issue with suppressors was never the $200, but the registration, paperwork, and waiting period.

>>64198722
>paperwork
silencershop efile, it's all saved
>waiting period
down to days if not hours these days

>>64198727
yeah, but the tax is still irrelevant. I've never heard of someone not get a suppressor because of it.

>>64198733
Correct me if I'm wrong, but part of the problem was that the suppressor manufacturers themselves ALSO had to pay the $200 transfer fee (not just the guy who buys it off silencershop), so all suppressors cost effectively 200$ more than they should.

So the effective cost of all suppressors will be 200$ less.

>>64198759
not sure, but I have my doubts the price will come down since people already pay it.

>>64198727
I would rather pay the $200 tax if they got rid of the registration and the retarded rules about knowing your current address and waiting period.

>>64198788
Just refuse to comply. No one's going to arrest you for not paying a $0 tax.

>>64198802
ok fed boy, you got it.

>>64198803
Has anyone ever been arrested, tried, and convicted solely for possession of unregistered NFA items with no exacerbating circumstance or other criminal elements?

How many people have been convicted thusly?

>>64198759
Manufacturers need a $200 form 1 and then you need a $200 form 4. But without the form 1 they'll keep their products listed at the same price and just make more money. They only difference is that you might see a market for cheap and sloppy $100-300 cans pop up. I doubt anyone bothers with the paperwork for less than $100.

>>64198808
Yes, that one retard that was selling full auto "cards"

>>64198808
ok glow tard, I'll commit a felony just for you.

>>64198814
He was a registered FFL i.e. a government employee. I mean just regular Joes.
>>64198816
So your answer is no then? Interesting.

>>64198808
Pretty sure they have, mostly for machine guns. There's a bit difference between not paying a $200 tax and not paying a $0 tax, though. Prior case law won't really apply to what happens next year.

>>64198824
>pretty sure they have
I'm not trolling here, I really wanted some examples.
Even Randy Weaver didn't get in trouble merely for possession.

>>64198808
yes, many have been arrested for very fucking dumb shit that shouldn't have been a cause
you're not above the law, you're the very thing its against

>>64198788
>I would rather pay the $200 tax if they got rid of the registration and the retarded rules about knowing your current address and waiting period.
Same.

>>64198802
>Just refuse to comply.
I do, when I'm just shooting for fun.
It would be nice to be able to leave the setup on my hd rifle though. I'm not going to risk getting caught with an unregistered, DIY suppressor on my gun in a shooting though

>>64198830
Are you a bot?
I am asking for specific examples of regular people just going about their day doing nothing unlawful other than having unregistered NFA shit, went to court, got convicted, and went to prison.
This isn't the same thing as marijuana cultivation, which carries a federal 10 year minimum and actually has been enforced quite rigorously especially in the past.

>>64198838
just as it turns out, i don't have a vast quantity of documents detailing shit nobody cares about
but you know what? i guess that just makes me a bot, well, so as long as you admit you're a thirdie spammer, based off that gay as shit book you wrote (that was longer than the very fucking opening question)

>>64198846
You are incoherent and rambling and are unable to focus on the discussion. It's time to go to bed.

>>64198833
>I'm not going to risk getting caught with an unregistered, DIY suppressor on my gun in a shooting though
Just apologize and offer to pay the $0 tax immediately, with interest.

>>64198851
you literally strayed off discussion in OP, vatnig

>>64198858
I can tell English isn't your first language.

>>64198862
>i've been caught! quick, i must call him an ESL!
projection, vatnig

>>64198699 (OP)
The $200 tax wasn't what was keeping people from wanting to get cans. Most people wipe their ass with $200 bucks in this hobby. Its the registration that is a problem.

>>64198808
Ruby Ridge and Waco. Although they were summarily executed, not tried and convicted.

>>64198865
Do better to fit in. You can improve your English language skills online for free.

Let me guess, you're from Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan or some other impoverished formerly Soviet country and that's why you see vatniks around every corner?

>>64198788
The waiting period no longer exists you mongoloid, everyone who isn't a felon clears in like a week now

After SBR regulation is stricken down, and someone starts making a DeLisle copycat, I'll be interested.

>>64198881
>muh ESL
you already used that one, noguns

wow, i need to clean this barrel lol

>waiting period down to hours to a few days
>paperwork is automatically filled and filed with e-signatures
>fingerprints are one-time and are saved
>tax stamp is zero dollars
Right now the ONLY remaining hassle that has to actually be repeated after your first can is you will need a new photograph taken every year.

>>64198868
See: >>64198854

>>64198901
Not ESL? So you're just drunk and/or retarded? Fascinating.

>>64198909
>couldn't even post a gun
you lost

>>64198877
Randall Weaver never even violated the NFA, the ATF plant asked him about it, he gave a non answer, then they tried to pull a "gotcha" to get him to be a snitch on the Aryan Larpers down the valley.
All he did was say "I didn't make the stupid short-barrel shotguns, I'm not going to be your snitch," and that was enough for them to go ruin his fucking life.

>>64198889
There shouldn't be one to begin with you cuck

>>64198927
That's lovely anon and I agree in principle, but we're talking about what actually keeps people from buying suppressors. Waiting 7 days is not a problem for anyone except you.

>>64198915
>Heh. You won't post photographs of your privately-owned firearms to the school shooter drug use self-harm glorification revenge porn and child pornography and bestiality website like me? Guess that means I win.
Interesting theory.

>>64198942
what a round about way to admit you have no guns

>>64198949
On 4chan we have nothing to prove. Reddit seems much more your style, so try uploading your gun pictures there. You could even get a thing called "Reddit Gold" if your guns are cool enough, which I know you'd cherish. Good luck anon!

>>64198957
>um, you're actually reddit sweaty!
not an argument, noguns

>>64198966
reddit.com/r/guns
There you go anon, just follow that link and you'll be home! Be sure to post all your guns!

>>64198979
o guns, guns
wherefore art thou guns?

Suppressors are for queersissy bottom fags

>>64198942
>noguns trying to climb glass
amusing

>>64198979
>>64198957
Proving you have guns with a timestamped pic is literally the oldest custom of /k/, you newfag tourist.

>>64198699 (OP)
>her
esl spotted

>>64198812
Having that market for cheap cans will result in less sales for high-end cans at current prices. The current market will get divvied up between products that go "premium product at premium price" and products that cut prices to compete at the low end and probably have to cut costs to be profitable after the tax costs are gone.

>>64202742
I'm not denying the existence of market pressure, but I don't really think anyone is going to be cross shopping a $1200 can and a $200 can. Even right now, $1200 suppressor buyers have much more cost effective options and they're still buying $1200 suppressors.

>>64198788
This. I don't care about the money. It's that there's a whole bunch of info about yourself you have to fork over to the feds who are the exact ones I'm trying to protect myself from by buying this stuff.

>>64198699 (OP)
If the government eases regulations and makes something more inexpensive you can be sure that the manufacturers and retailers will then raise prices to increase profits.
So don't get too excited about getting cheap suppressors.

>>64198824
>Prior case law won't really apply to what happens next year.
I can't possibly see how mountains of prior case law won't directly apply. There are plenty of cases where the government requires registration even if there's no fee and failing to comply is an offense. The NFA in particular even names the regulation of interstate commerce in its long title as a purpose seperate from taxation, and in its body (s4) outlines in very clear terms for recording and registering transfers totally independently of tax purposes.

>>64202821
if the government eases regulations a bunch of us will just start making suppressors at home and manufacturers can offer better value or suck our dicks.

>>64198759
>So the effective cost of all suppressors will be 200$ less
No it won't

>>64198699 (OP)
Please god can someone make Maxim clones for 22s? Even better if they also offer the clamp on adapter Maxim made, though obviously prefer direct thread (unless the vintage 22 I'm putting it on is retardedly valuable).

>>64198722
Well the wait times were cut way down and look at what happened to the market when that happened. Shit was OOS for quite a while. Maybe it won't be that big initially but give it some time and we'll see the popularity rise quite a bit. Remember in the ~80s you pretty much didn't own a silencer unless you were into NFA shit, which wasn't all THAT common; from what I see unless you were in that scene most of the time you didn't get one. In the 90s/00s that was really mostly only a thing obsessed coyote hunters and the biggest tactical autists would ever consider or know about. In the 2010s you started seeing it more and more. Around 2020 even Ruger is making and selling silencers. We went from paper to eForm to wait times being cut down often under one week (down from about 300 day avg) rather quick.

>>64198699 (OP)
Also, REAL XM177 moderators. I know of one or two guys making them ATM, but while filling out paperwork for one of these is silly now, imagine uppers or complete rifles with these already installed. Or shit, even P&W'd to a 14.5", albeit a little silly of an option with a $0 SBR stamp also available.

>>64198722
Also I won't disagree with you but what I will say is each time we get something to unfuck the NFA bit by bit it seems popularity of SBR/SBS/Silencers increases just that little bit more. I'd personally like if MidwayUSA would sell me a pack of 5 maxims and an XM177 moderator in with my order of random gun parts but we're not there (yet?).

>>64203114
FUCK.

>>64198895
>DeLisle copy
Already a thing. USArmamentMFG, $5k fake silencer or $6.5k real. Valkyrie Arms claims to have it on their site that looks straight out of ~2000-2007 but my computer gives me a 403 and my phone gives me a warning that I think is because they don't support HTTPS (lol) so who knows whether this info is current. Either way, they claim $2k for dummy suppressor model and $2.5k for suppressed model, both MSRP. Or $1.6k wholesale for dummy and $2.2k wholesale real.

Frankly at that price I'd look if anyone makes a kit with a real silencer to build on a bare receiver or a DP rifle; I think that a lower cost kit was a thing at one point but I could be wrong.

>>64198902
>you will need a new photograph taken every year.
Oh thank god; I'm not stuck with that shit-ass photo my FFL took forever?

>>64203149
Yeah, I'm not paying 5k for a rangetoy/varmint remover. Also, why are there so many gun websites that stopped developing after 2005? Specifically gun sites. Do these business die, and the owner forgets to take the site down because he's an old boomer who isn't good with computers? It doesn't seem to happen often with related businesses.
2,000 for a kit would be worth it to me if the end product is great. And tbqh I might look into chambering it in 40S&W / 10mm because I already have a handgun in it.

>>64203298
Sounds like you'd really have to go custom if you want a 40/10mm; I don't even know if barrels are available for SMLEs in that caliber but I can't say I've looked. There are some DP rifles floating around out there and there is a 45 barrel available but it might not be full length, which bugs me. If the DPs last at the prices they've been (~$125-150) I might just grab one to see what I can do with it. 45 seems to play with the bolt nicely as-is but I'm not sure about smaller cases. IMO, 9mm would be nice as 45ACP is 31.6cpr before shipping on Ammoseek for a brand I actually recognize (that isn't steelcase/amount restricted). Blazer Brass 9mm is 19.4cpr w/o amt restriction. Only like 12cpr difference, but every 8.something rounds that's an entire dollar more. At least that's what I'd want if I did a pistol cal conversion and silenced it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyq2UZk9Rv8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4whGqT4y5Dw

>>64203396
If you're suppressing you might as well get 45 because plinking 9mm will probably be supersonic out of that barrel.

>>64198998
REAL MEN lose their HEARING so they can't hear what WOMEN SAY.

>>64203492
147gr 9mm is still cheaper than 45

>>64198808
this guy is based and no one wants to admit it.

I used to be a tard rangler (ranger officer) and I saw people with more than likely unregistered sbrs and others stuff.

no one cares
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTX5SR83rpA

>>64198877
Weaver didn’t deserve it. The branch davidians can burn in hell as blasphemers

>>64198699 (OP)
>Le both sides

>>64198942
Describing the site you choose to use as being about school shooters and cp isn't the flex you think it is, holy shit youre retarded lol

>>64203492
IDK, we'll see. Not to mention it'd be a while even if I did it as an MP5 and silencer is coming first. I wonder if .380 would silence well? Tippmann showed off this .380 gate loading Visible Loader clone last Shot Show and I would love a 16"-20" threaded rifle model. Weird-ass gun with a rather short action.

>>64198788
>>64198833
>>64198868
>>64202807
You fags realize they already have all this info unless all your guns were bought anonymously in a private sale with either crypto or precious metals right

>>64207973
Blaspheming cultists are too good to share a hell with people who support a government agency whose existence is a direct affront to the Constitution and whose actions resulted in the executions of innocent children followed by taking victorious selfies on top of the corpses. I hope the Branch Davidians made it into heaven just to make you seethe that little bit more as you burn in hell for eternity.

>>64202822
You are wrong because the NFA is part of the tax code. It is a tax scheme with a registration attached to prove you paid the tax. Initially you paid the $200 and got your tax stamp. Now they require finger prints, pictures, Etc but it still hinges on the tax. No tax means no registration.

I’m sure that won’t stop the anti gunners and liberals trying any angle they can.

>>64211549
All the polymer in the world wont fix the outdated design

>>64212918
>I wonder if .380 would silence well?

>>64213894
Won't fix Man Dick's retarded spam either.

>>64198733
I have multiple cans drawn up in Solidworks for my guns. I'm not going to drop a grand to Form 1 them so I can spend $300 of material and a few weekends drinking some beers behind a machine. Fuck that. I've already spent enough doing that on previous Form 1 cans over the years. Far better things to spend a grand on these days anyways. I'm ready for the 0$ file

>>64218813
Just make one and don't file. How is anyone going to know whether the can on your rifle is specifically the one registered to you or not?

>>64218813
Anything special about your can
designs? Or are they just specific for your specific needs?

>>64218841

I mean, honestly, slim to none. In the last 10 years since I made my first form 1 can, not a single person has ever asked me about it. Good or bad type of ask, like not even what brand it is, and I've been to multiple indoor and outdoor ranges across the country. Despite that, I'm white, so it's not worth the risk of making one illegally. If i was black, I could post all over the internet a illegal can without a care on my switchy blicky, or what ever they say.

Also, if I only wanted to make only 1 single can again, then... eh, 200$ is doable. But with multiples wanted, it just adds up too quickly. To hell with that.

>>64218871

There is usually not a damn thing special about the ones I draw up. I just enjoy designing them, and am too Jewish to pay 1000+200$ for something that I can make with ~100$ of material +200$ on a form 1. The efile is easy, and luckily takes no time at all to get returned these days, I just really hate the 200$ tax charge. I was happy when I know longer needed to loop around with my Trust, and I'll be happy when the 200$ goes away. I'll be even more happy if the day comes that I no longer have to do any of this, but I also won't hold my breath on that either.

>>64218887
If you own n form 1s already, as long as you post ≤n cans in social media, even someone who gave a shit wouldn't have any evidence to suggest that you might own an unregistered suppressor and you'll be safe regardless of your skin color.

>>64213889
You are wrong because the location of a piece of law has no bearing on its lawfulness. Show me case law that says something being refiled unded a specific bureaucratic title means the words in it no longer have legal effect if the two aren't closely enough related. Protip: You can't because it doesn't.

>>64219737
Show me where it says it's illegal to not pay a $0 tax.

>>64212918
Glock 42 is very quiet with a can, but it's almost like there's diminishing returns, it's much quieter than 9mm with short can (I used obsidian 9 half mode), but only a little bit quieter with full length.

>>64198699 (OP)
Why would we when you can just buy a suppressor and put it on a cool gun you already have

>subreddit

kys faggot and go back

I do worry that QC will shit the bed as they become more accessible, though i guess they will just go the way of european suppressors where they are seen as much more disposable.

>>64225219
>i only go to 4chan!
>the anon tulpa in my head makes fun of me if i go anywhere else!

nice bullied-kid ptsd

>>64225272
go back, you dont belong normie fag

>>64198699 (OP)
Integral suppressors suck because you can't use them on any other gun

>>64227395
Why wouldn't you have a suppressor for each gun you own?

>>64198808
That USN collector who got busted for all kinds of stuff that the ATF simply made up, like the toy "SMG" that could be made to fire a single round before disintegrating if you added a real SMG's bolt, fire control group, and barrel, or something like that?

>>64225272
The r*dditor out himself yet again.

>>64221711
nta. He can't because it is, in fact, legal to not pay a $0 tax, and in fact, a tax that does not collect revenue is null outright illegal, per United States v. Butler (1936). Additionally, the registry is only legal on the basis of it being proof of a tax paid under Sonzinsky v. United States (1937), therefore making it expressly illegal under the Firearm Owners' Protection Act (1986).

>>64227759
null and outright*
boy am I retarded

>>64227413
damn I didn't think of that, my bad

>>64227759
>registry is only legal on the basis of it being proof of a tax paid under Sonzinsky v. United States (1937)
That was not the ruling. The ruling was that the registry was obviously supportable as an aid to levying the tax, but does not consider in any way if they would be lawful if they were not in support of levying the tax.
>therefore making it expressly illegal under the Firearm Owners' Protection Act (1986).
FOPA specifically allows registries to be kept for firearms defined in the NFA. Removing the tax has no effect on that, because...
>tax that does not collect revenue is null, per United States v. Butler (1936)
Does not make any ruling related to the issue at hand. Firstly, it actually finds that the Federal government cannot override a power reserved for states using its taxation powers using fictitious tax, but there is no claim anywhere that arms or firearms registration is a reserved state power. Secondly, the NFA doesn't hinge on taxation powers (it rests also, and explicitly, on interstate commerce powers), and the registration portion of it is defined seperately and with seperate purpose to the taxation. On both counts, US v Butler is spurious.
>>64221711
It's not. It's illegal to not register something that a law says you must register. You're (both) engaged in magical sovcit thinking. If registration of airplanes was free, would it become legal to ignore FAA registration and all the FAA regulations? No, of course not. The fact that the NFA got seperately codified in a chapter that has a title with revenue in the word doesn't at all change or influence the lawfulness of parts of it that don't relate to tax.