Thread 64212942

We can all agree that anti-aircraft gun is objectively the most useless type of air defense weapon.

AA gun is useless against FPV drone because FVP drone is both too small and too maneuverable to be hit by kinetic projectile. FPV drone will effortlessly dodge every single kinetic projectile fired by AA gun since an FPV drone can pull off 10G evasive acceleration along all flight axis.

Against Shahed drone or cruise missile, AA gun can only hit them if they fly at a predictable straight line at low speed at low altitude. On the other hand, MANPADS such as Stinger and Igla can do the same job as AA gun but way better because MANPADS can shoot down Shahed or cruise missile from significantly longer effective range with significantly higher accuracy than AA gun.

AA gun is completely useless against RAM (rocket, artillery, mortar) target because RAM target is both smaller and significantly faster than cruise missile. It's practically impossible for AA gun to hit something as small and fast as RAM target.

AA gun is completely useless at hitting fighter aircraft and helicopter because both of them typically fly at altitude way higher than the effective range of AA gun. None of the kinetic projectiles fired by AA gun will be able to even touch fighter aircraft and helicopter.

>>64212942 (OP)
There are more aircraft to defend against than drones. You have tunnel vision on the most recent thing.

No, I cannot agree with this statement.

no, you are just wrong. also google proximity fuses, they'd work against drones just fine.

>AA gun is useless against FPV drone because FVP drone is both too small and too maneuverable to be hit by kinetic projectile. FPV drone will effortlessly dodge every single kinetic projectile fired by AA gun since an FPV drone can pull off 10G evasive acceleration along all flight axis
Airburst shells solve this. And they can be as small as 25mm, check Nexter's catalogue
>Against Shahed drone or cruise missile, AA gun can only hit them if they fly at a predictable straight line at low speed at low altitude. On the other hand, MANPADS such as Stinger and Igla can do the same job as AA gun but way better because MANPADS can shoot down Shahed or cruise missile from significantly longer effective range with significantly higher accuracy than AA gun.
It works well as the last layer of defense

Plus, judging by Syrians ZSUs, these things are very good at shredding meaties

>>64212942 (OP)
>FPV drone will effortlessly dodge every single kinetic projectile fired by AA gun since an FPV drone can pull off 10G evasive acceleration along all flight axis.
Drones travel in straight lines with almost no evasive action
And AA guns were originally intended to hit helos making evasive maneuvers or jets travelling at close to transonic speeds

Can MANPADS lock onto targets at night or under low cloud cover?

>>64212942 (OP)
definitely brown

>>64212942 (OP)
look up flak gun you retard, it's perfect for drones retard.

It all makes a lot more sense when you realize that OP is a zigger and even his country's most advanced AA missile batteries get blown up on a weekly basis by drones, artillery, and missiles. Even Russians don't think Tunguska is worth half a damn.

>>64213139
You gotta stop with the paranoia man. This is an American website for English speakers and the odds of someone being a dumb kid are a lot higher than being an FSB agent.

>>64212942 (OP)
>AA gun is useless against FPV drone because FVP drone is both too small and too maneuverable to be hit by kinetic projectile. FPV drone will effortlessly dodge every single kinetic projectile fired by
Look up the Rheinmetall AHEAD round

>>64213150
you are a retarded piece of shit, we know 4chan is full of shills you retard. /k/ and /pol/ have mods that are russian shills you fucking retard,

>>64212962
>>64212978
Each airburst shell costs like 10x more than an FPV drone, and because airburst shell is unguided unlike a missile, an AA gun needs to shoot like 100 rounds of airburst shells just to hit an FPV drone that unrealistically hovers at stationary position.
Last I checked, an FPV drone typically costs $500, so an AA gun needs to shoot $500000 total worth of ammunition just to hit an FPV drone hovering at stationary position. As you can see, AA gun is economically inefficient at shooting down FPV drone.
Also, FPV drone can effortlessly dodge airburst shells before they can release their fragments. In real life, an FPV drone will never hover at stationary position.

>>64212978
You don't need AA gun as last line of defense if you have enough missiles. For the price of one AA gun, you can buy 50 extra missiles.

>>64213245
>muh costs
Retarded reasoning and fundamental misunderstanding of the economics of air defense

>>64212998
Good luck trying to hit an FPV drone when it can evade in XYZ axis with this level of acceleration: https://youtube.com/shorts/wYbjhiQrFEw?feature=shared

>>64212983
>>64213018
You do realize only brown and black people use something as stupid as AA gun right?
White people exclusively use laser and missile for air defense. Only white people are smart enough to develop and use laser to replace AA gun.
Laser BTFO AA gun in air defense role.

>>64213016
If MANPADS can't lock onto targets at night then AA gun also can't do the same lmao.
AA gun also can't hit an air target that's hidden by low cloud cover lmao.

>>64213255
it would be a cool sport to see people shoot these with shotguns like extreme version of sporting clays

>>64213254
>Ignoring the objective importance of economic in warfare
You are the same type of brown people who believe shooting down a $500 FPV drone with $1000000 Patriot missile is economically justifiable.

>>64213277
FPV drone dodges shotgun shell

>>64213278
Patriot missiles are for long range area defense, not SHORAD or VSHORAD, where $500 FPVs would be encountered. Maybe you should learn a bit more about Air Defense before talking out of your ass.

>>64212942 (OP)
No, you are a wrong faggot. With my ZSU-37-2 in war thunder I can consistently shoot down maneuvering drones.

>>64213172
You're freaking out for no reason. Look at you.

>>64213245
>Each airburst shell costs like 10x more than an FPV drone
> needs to shoot like 100 rounds of airburst shells just to hit an FPV drone
source?

>>64213283
So you are aware that shooting down FPV drone with Patriot missile is economically inefficient, but you also think an AA gun shooting $500000 total worth of airburst shells to take down an FPV is economically viable?
You are the one that needs to learn more about the economic of air defense.
AA gun is horribly economically inefficient at shooting down FPV drone given the cost of each airburst shell and the number of shells needed to take down an FPV drone.
The most economically efficient ways to shoot down an FPV drone is with a drone jammer or a laser weapon, both only need a few dollars of electricity to shoot down an FPV drone.

disregard OP being a retard/baitposting
what is the advantage of building a metal box around the barrel? is it rigidity at a lower weight than just making the barrel thicker?

>>64213304
Look again, the box isn't supporting the barrel. It functions as a heat shield to reduce the IR signature of the hot barrel, and supports the wiring for the electronics. See how there's a cable going into the muzzle device? That's a programmer for the airburst rounds. If it was hose clamped the barrel all the way down, it would melt.

>>64213303
Why are you posting a picture of yourself?

>>64213324
I like the old school aa guns with the exposed fuse arming doohickey

>>64213332
>Why are you posting a picture of yourself?

>>64213245
if you do that same 'roll R&D costs into unit price of the first batch' accounting trick on FPV drones they're millions of dollars each

>>64213289
He made it up

>>64212942 (OP)
>another drone thread
giving the third world internet access was a mistake

>>64213324
I see, thanks anon

>>64213362
Somebody needs to make a Great Firewall and segregate these cretins

>>64213362
Only third worlders think AA gun is remotely viable in modern air defense

>>64213349
This ain't Instagram, son. You don't need to keep spamming your profile pic here. No one is interested in your brown face.

>>64213352
FPV drone is cheaper than airburst shell, though.

>>64213392
Man, bullet is cheaper than body armor, I guess we shouldn't use that anymore!

>>64213387
post hands gun and outlet ramesh

>>64213396
Bullets are more expensive than letting the bad guys kill you, radical passivism is the most cost effective option.

>>64213436
Pacifism. Retard.

>>64213392
Only because of that accounting quirk, so your whole premise is wrong.

>>64212944
>There are more aircraft to defend against than drones
Yeah, and AAA is bad for all of them bar some niche scenario like a helicopter being lured into close range

>>64212942 (OP)
Realistically we should replace the AA tanks with Anti-Optical Controlled Drone Tanks.

>>64213547
Well now that's just ridiculous
The shears should be on a scissor arm extension

>>64213557
When DARPA contacts me I will be sure to hire you.

>>64213582
Thank you

>>64213245
>an AA gun needs to shoot like 100 rounds of airburst shells just to hit an FPV drone.
Wrong. One shot, one kill.
https://eos-aus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/EOS-Defence-Slinger-flyer.pdf

>>64213301
>So you are aware that shooting down FPV drone with Patriot missile is economically inefficient, but you also think an AA gun shooting $500000 total worth of airburst shells to take down an FPV is economically viable?
What a horrible attempt at a leading question.

>>64213623
Give him a 3/100 for trying.

>>64213621
>One shot one kill if the drone is literally not flying and just stay on the ground without moving

>>64213289
>>64213356
>>64213621
German AA gun shooting 100 rounds of airburst shells just to kill one stationary FPV drone:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=UnV9qoYQJMg&pp=ygUSb2VybGlrb24gc2t5cmFuZ2Vy

>>64212942 (OP)
This thread was made by a seething zigger whose renamed sneed spam got utterly BTFO by Skynex

>>64213708
>100 rounds
>10 puffs

>>64213722
>Brownoid can't differentiate between Shahed and FPV drone
Shahed is not an FPV drone retard

>>64213708
So either it needs a gorrillion shells to do anything or full auto looks cool in trailers

>>64213722
>10 puffs
>90 rounds missed the drone, only 10 rounds hit the drone
>One drone costs $500.
>Each round costs $2000.
>$2000 * 10 = $20000.
>AA gun needs $20000 worth of accurate hits just to shoot down a $500 drone

>>64212942 (OP)
why do you retarded third worlders think we give a fuck about your shit takes?

>>64213730
Only brownoids use something as cost-inefficient as AA gun to shoot down FPV drones.
White people use cost-efficient solutions such as jammer and laser to shoot down FPV drone

>>64213419
You first turdie.

>>64213743
>Post an image featuring a tranny

>>64213739
>>10 puffs
>>90 rounds missed the drone, only 10 rounds hit the drone
>>One drone costs $500.
>>Each round costs $2000.
>>$2000 * 10 = $20000.
>>AA gun needs $20000 worth of accurate hits just to shoot down a $500 drone

>>64213747
I'm whiter than your esl ass

>>64213708
It didnt need to. It was done for marketing purposes. even 1 would have been enough.

>>64213753
*ESL
Your English is worse than a chink, pajeet

>>64213739
>one drone costs $500
incorrect. one drone costs $5000
>each round costs $2000
incorrect. one round costs $150.

>>64213748
>Ran out of rebuttal
>Post irrelevant image

>>64213766
>y-you didn't capitalize an initialism!
post hands gun and outlet

>>64213765
100 rounds at minimum are needed for an AA gun to hit a stationary FPV drone. The video literally proved that.
Also, it's literally impossible for an AA gun to hit an FPV drone that is actively evading, which is why these companies never publish any footages of their AA guns being tested against evasive FPV drone. Because they knew their AA guns are useless against FPV drone that doesn't hover at stationary position like a retard.

>>64213768
DJI Mini 2 costs $449
https://store.dji.com/product/mini-2?vid=99411

>>64213775
>100 rounds at minimum are needed for an AA gun to hit a stationary FPV drone.
source?

>The video literally proved that.
its a marketing video. it proves nothing.

>Also, it's literally impossible for an AA gun to hit an FPV drone that is actively evading.

incorrect. Further, an FPV drone capable of complex evasive maneuvers is incapable of dealing any worthwile damage.

>Because they knew their AA guns are useless against FPV drone that doesn't hover at stationary position like a retard.

Even in your marketing video every drone was flying through the air, not hovering.

Most drones will fly straight in the air to their target, with at best singular turns for their terminal attack vector.

>>64213778
A DJI Mini 2 has a range of 4km without any payload, is suspectible to the most basic and widely used jamming methods amd is incapable of doing any damage.

>>64213794
If you already have jammer then you literally don't need AA gun in the first place.
Jammer can do the same anti-drone job as AA gun but significantly cheaper.

>>64213739
>>64213748
>>64213768
>>64213778
You are all retarded. It is shooting down Shahed drones that cost 50-100k USD (up to 200k when bought from Iran). These AA defences are not deployed near the frontline but are protecting high value assets, important cities or common flight paths where the 500 USD DJI drones can't reach.

>>64213785
>incorrect. Further, an FPV drone capable of complex evasive maneuvers is incapable of dealing any worthwile damage.
FPV drone can effortlessly evade every single airburst shell while carrying an RPG warhead. FPV drone is literally designed to do that. FPV drone has thrust-to-weight ratio higher than 10.
>Most drones will fly straight in the air to their target, with at best singular turns for their terminal attack vector.
If your drone is piloted by a pajeet then sure

>>64213801
MANPADS is more cost effective at shooting down Shahed than AA gun. MANPADS has higher accuracy and longer range than AA gun.
Only one missile is needed to shoot down one Shahed compared to 1000 rounds of airburst shells.
Cost of 1000 airburst shells > cost of one missile.
Also, Shahed is programmed to evade airburst shells
AA gun can't hit anything that is evasive.

>>64213804
>FPV drone can effortlessly evade every single airburst shell
i know the education system in your brown shithole country is lackluster, but this is some next level retardation

>>64213799
Jammers come in many forms, some cheaper than others, and anti-jamming methods also come in many forms. The existence of a jammer does not mean every wireless drone is incapable of penetrating its perimeter.

>>64213819
>bad english
>no hands gun or outlet
third worlder confirmed

>>64212942 (OP)
Yec, I am ov being agreements western postingmate. We have been spendings multitude of reichdollar on this silly HATO wonderwaffe and hamstering our owns economic by the doing sanction too. Rodeo howdy gutentag.

>>64213817
Jammer is literally designed as the perfect countermeasure to wireless devices such as FPV drones.
It's scientifically impossible for an FPV drone to survive being jammed.

Mald harder OP

>>64213804
>FPV drone can effortlessly evade every single airburst shell while carrying an RPG warhead

Incorrect. airburst shells travel much faster through the air and the drone has no way of detecting them to react and evade. The drone can only complicate its maneuvering to make itself a harder target, not reactively evade. that, by definition, is not effortless.

also, no, it cannot do those maneuvers in an effective manner while carrying an rpg warhead. The weight will make it sluggish.

>FPV drone has thrust-to-weight ratio higher than 10.

Which fpv drone?

>If your drone is piloted by a pajeet then sure

No u.

They downed 2 jeets with bofors back in serbia.
Also ukes have been using literal MG to shoot down cruise missiles and the Gepards does a wonderful job against shaeds

>>64213812
Me when I strawman.

airburst AA or even HMG is more cost effective against Shadeds than MANPADS

>>64212942 (OP)
This post is a bait

>>64213834
I'm not, but you certainly are.

>>64213827
You know nothing abour how jammers work, good to know.

I can’t tell if you’re trolling or genuinely dumb, but either way please stop posting forever. For the record I waited 120 seconds to tell you this because, genuinely, please never post again. I hope you are able to find the help you need. May you understand reality someday.

>>64213828
>I need to shoot 1000 bullets to hit a drone with a kinetic gun. This means AA gun is effective against drone!
KYS tranny

>>64213812
>Also, Shahed is programmed to evade airburst shells
>AA gun can't hit anything that is evasive.

AHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>64213845
12 rounds. it took 12 rounds.

>>64213833
I also heard that the Pajeet of Kiev shot down 1 billion Su-47s with a biplane

>>64213843
>Give yourself a name on 4chan

>>64213833
Great pic anon.

>>64213839
Lmao your hand is brown AF

>>64213868
cope harder lol. btw, lets see yours for comparison, along with a gun and outlet.

>>64213812
>1000 shells

The video literally shows it taking less than ten shells you fucking poison welling jeet retard. Also you use everything at your dispoal, AA guns and MANPADS all depending on the unit, location, flight direction, height etc.

>>64213863
TFW actual retard who has never used the 4chans, please share more of your deep lore knowledge and embarrass us. It adds to your credence.

>>64213850
How can any nation recover from this expense.

>>64213890
op's clearly can't lol.

>>64213812
>Also, Shahed is programmed to evade airburst shells
you have no idea how it works you brain dead retard

Please keep on seething OP

>>64213833
>ukes have been using literal MG to shoot down cruise missiles
sure they did retard

>>64212942 (OP)
>AA gun is useless against FPV drone because FVP drone is both too small and too maneuverable to be hit by kinetic projectile.
You really were fast to show your cards.

So is this all that this board is now?
Unusable because of the shill wars?

>>64213910
It's more of trying to convince a (thirdie) retard he's wrong

>>64212942 (OP)
No you're wrong and dumb.

>>64213255
>an FPV strapped with the biggest battery available and RPG7 warhead totally pulls acceleration like a bespoke racing drone, saar
fuck ya mudda

AA guns can fire up to 15,000 ft
at 5 rounds/ sec

"no"
also airburst is a thing

stop using AP ruounds on drones and use air burst

your a literal novice.
most helicopters cannot go above 5,000 without stallings

also 10g turns don't do shit against air burst AA guns.

putting on a M60 body was a good idea.
most impressive.
this is why AA training is a thing.

stop using A>I you fat yank.
use your eyes
if you can't eye ball worth shit its not the guns problem its because your too chubby!
>not that you can help that in the usa (fat content is huge)

also lasers and jammers work on non optic drones.

and no your not going to shotting down missiles and other weaposn because there are anti air kamaze drones who do that already btter than you can aim yank.

>>64212942 (OP)
Well no shit but look at Germany’s average age. They’re all boomers and boomers can’t into electronics or anything modern like missiles for that matter. Their replacement migrants also aren’t good at anything but murdering people from behind their backs.

>>64214795
is the jeet angry that his visa was denied?
also
>who is hensoldt
>who is dhiel
>who is mbda
>who is rheinmetall

>>64214808
>Wallah kaffir everything is alright in almania, you is jeet

>who is hensoldt
Not even a second rate company. Do they even get any non German gov contracts?
>who is dhiel
Diehl* and aside from the IRIS-T 2 decades ago (also multinational project) they don’t do anything other than license building stuff
>who is mbda
Only the French and British parts do anything with missiles. The German part literally only works on dumb rockets right now
>who is rheinmetall
Same company as OP, wasting time with AA guns from WW1 instead of missiles like modern civilizations. At best they license build American missiles like HIMARS.

>>64213245
>a bullet only costs $1 and body armour costs $500 and doesn't protect all of you so it's not worth buying

>>64214845
>t. poorly informed retard
also sad to see that you are so furiously defending your bad takes for 13 hours by now
get a job (even though it will never be in defence)

>>64213245
Only if you make like a 1000 of them. In an economy of scale, airburst shells are less complex than a drone's CPU system, thus the shell will eventually beat out the drone.

>>64213396
>>64213436
Apt analogies. What you're protecting is equally important, also it's clear that many drones already don't make it to their target because of EW
>Hurr durr muh fiber
Comes with its own amount of limitations and drawbacks.
>Muh cooost
Yeah war is a fucking black hole for resources and cash, who would have known.

>>64214933
Eh to be fair, the drones CPU systems production can also be applied to more things due to civilian applications. Civilians really don't have much use (or access) to high caliber airburst shells (yet)

>>64213910
It's been unusable due to thirdies for a while.

>>64213745
>>64213419
This was funny to follow you, two AA faggots

>>64213739
Okay and what was the value of the target that the drone was going to hit? Using $20,000 to down a drone that might cause a $4,000,000 tank to explode is very much worth it.

>>64215206
>op still crying in broken english
just take the L m8

>>64213778
DJI Mini are not bought off the shelf and made into FPV drones. They're bought and then modified because off the shelf drones are all jammed. So you need to put stuff in and fiddle with stuff to get it to work. Ignoring the payload costs as well. For every video you see of a drone hitting a BMP there are a hundred drones that never got there. Ignoring the inherent problem of mass drones anyway (bandwidth shit and traffic) if the solution was to 'fill the skies with drones' they'd do it. In the Ukraine War, each side has maybe 3-6 drone operators per AOO as any more and you end up with issues. This idea of 'just fill the skies bros drones are the answer bro' requires incredibly expensive and sophisticated things (requiring bandwidth bouncing and self-communicating stuff) so we're left with the situation where you have maybe six guys on each side throwing six drones at each other per wave. Go look up Spiderweb. They were done in waves because otherwise things would go to fuck (and two trucks exploded due to these issues).

>>64213278
Only brown people think this kind of cost analysis matter because they're from poor countries that can't afford it.

We will spend 1 million for every 1000 and still have money left over.

>>64215259
Works with fiber optic ones, though, since there's no interference to speak of. Some places, where combat was particularly brutal, looked like Australia after a golden orb weaver invasion.

>>64213267
>appeal to race

>>64215293
>We will spend 1 million for every 1000 and still have money left over.
USA is $35 trillion in debt, so that's not true, it's just a case of 'we don't care'.

>>64215307
Red side only worries about debt til they get in power. That says everything you need to know about how fucking meaningless the term is.

>>64215307
>it's just a case of we don't care

Either way it works you dumb nigger

>>64214954
>>64214954
>>64214954
I mean the core parts of a proximity airburst fuze are just some copper coils, some logic parts, a battery/capacitor and a detonator. Rest is just ammunition shit. While not consumer off the shelf parts, very few parts of it are only needed for military use.

>>64213708
>10 rounds
>35mm guns have mostly switched to AHEAD style ammo which can kill an entire swarm with a burst
>AHEAD costs like 200 bucks a round
yeah no

>>64212942 (OP)
ESL greaseball droneniggers making shit up on the catalog again

>>64212942 (OP)
Retarded OP. I hope it's a bait to talk about how AA gun are coming back full force.
Tips: you didn't need to lie. Have some self respect anon.

All you need is different ammo for different range and target type.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb5_F4_Eod8

>FPV drone can pull off 10G evasive acceleration
They can't and even if they could, evasive maneuver is pointless when done randomly.
FPV drones don't have the sensors needed to know it is being targeted, even less to see projectiles coming automatically.
Doing random maneuver non-stop would both make them easier to see and greatly reduce their already short range.

>Against Shahed drone or cruise missile
Those are easy targets, the only reason we can't shoot them all is because there's a lot of terrain to cover.

>AA gun is completely useless against RAM (rocket, artillery, mortar)
Those are the most difficult target to hit, so there's no shame to admit it.
It's disingenuous to pretend rocket enter the same category as artillery and mortar.
Plus you literally have nothing that could be better against artillery & mortar than anti-aircraft guns. You ain't going to manpad a mortar projectile, are you?

>MANPADS can shoot down Shahed or cruise missile from significantly longer effective range
They also cost 10x more to produce than any of those targets.

>>64213582
Export version

>>64213739
i want you to know that i have zero combat experience
and every single piece of military knowledge i have is based on museum youtube channels
and even then i think you are the absolute dumbest fucking mongoloid on this board, holy shit
like i genuinely believe someone else is typing these comments while you fucking drool into letters on an oujia board
holy fuck you are so fucking dumb

>>64213245
>Last I checked, an FPV drone typically costs $500, so an AA gun needs to shoot $500000 total worth of ammunition just to hit an FPV drone hovering at stationary position

Holy shit, this is not even pajeet level shilling, this is pure darkest-heart-of-Africa level nigger shilling.

I'll sacrifice my energy to reply but never reply to these, you'll spend n+1 energy while they spend n, the low-effort posting, as a tactic, is used to kill sane conversation.

>>64213255
SAAR
THE DEDICATED RACING DRONE GO REAL FAST SAAR

>>64212942 (OP)
>AA gun is useless against FPV drone because FVP drone is both too small and too maneuverable to be hit by kinetic projectile
Good thing air burst ammunition exists.

>FPV drone will effortlessly dodge every single kinetic projectile fired by AA gun since an FPV drone can pull off 10G evasive acceleration along all flight axis.
Oerlikon KBA 25 mm, Muzzle velocity 1,100 m/s (3,600 ft/s) 1,400 m/s (4,600 ft/s). Good luck 'dodging' that, retard.

I stopped reading here.

now this is a Gepard thread

>>64213245
holy fuck, you fucking retard, fucking kill yourself

>>64212942 (OP)
>AA gun is useless against FPV drone because FVP drone is both too small and too maneuverable to be hit by kinetic projectile.
What is airburst. You don't know enough to comment. You are probably also forgetting
western stuff actually works

>>64213245
>Each airburst shell costs like 10x more than an FPV drone
But far less than waht the drones are trying to destroy and completely mitigates the threat. You seem like a stupid really.

>>64213267
Third world post.

>>64213267
>Hallo sar! Let us be the /pol/ style of the talk

>>64215206
lol u aren't fooling anyone ranjeesh. Go fuck your sister or rape a little girl, as your "people" love to do, or just kys.

>>64222876
>But far less than waht the drones are trying to destroy and completely mitigates the threat.
NTA but I think your post kind of misses the point. Unless you extract greater value from the things the AA are defending than the cost delta for defending them through their subsequent use, then it is still a losing exchange. It's by no means a given that its reasonable to expect to be able do that for all equipment over all spans of time.

Having said that, all of the numbers in his post are wildly wrong in the direction that favors his argument, and the real cost delta is way smaller. But: The general notion that an expendible defence that is far more expensive than the thing it counters is not a reasonable solution for any realistic mass or time scale, let alone a "complete mitigation" of the threat, is correct in any case where the defender can't afford to outspend the attacker by a very large amount.

>>64213245
No fucking way a small shell fuse with acceleration-resistant eletronics is more complex than optics, guidance, communication, motors, battery, optic fiber spool, payload and etc.of a drone
With all else being equal a drone is more expensive than its countermeasure

>>64224092
>No fucking way a small shell fuse with acceleration-resistant eletronics is more complex than optics
Of course it's not.
But on ammunition production you pay military tape boomer tax. You can't make ammo like drones in your garage. You need special loisense and to employ flock of retired boomers colonels and generals to get that. Boomer military tax. That makes military thinks at least 10 more expensive if bit 100.

>>64224130
But for drones to do any damage they also need the ammunition parts.

>>64224763
B-but I can make IEDS!

35 mm Skyranger goodness on a Lynx platform

https://youtu.be/rWkvQAK9pVE

>>64216040
fpvs can fly at cat height level. they will rip apart your AA gun without the AA gun ever knowing what even hit them. these flak guns are a counter to lancet type drones but not fpvs.

>>64218908
>I stopped reading here.
good luck hitting a basketball sized object that flies at ground level and approaches you behind cover. you are delusional beyond comprehension.

>>64225972
>>64226023
and we are only at the beginning of the evolution of fpv drones in combat. future fpv drones will be fully autonomous AI guided drones, potentially dropped into a target area by a missile or larger carrier drone. AA will again be behind the curve and totally befuddled.

>>64226023
>detects your retarded toy with an array of /cameras feeding into a machine vision algorithm/LIDAR/RADAR/microphone sensors
>calculates a firing solution and points a low power aliexpress-tier laser at it, melting its camera sensor
>The AA gun automatically takes care of the rest

its a matter of time, dronecuck

>>64225972
>>64226023

>>64213245
>Each airburst shell costs like 10x more than an FPV drone
More like a thousand airburst shells cost less than an FPV drone. Also, irrelevant. What's relevant is the cost of whatever that FPV drone would hit if it wasn't eradicated by an airburst shell.

>>64225972
AA guns can exterminate drones flying at ground level. They will rip apart your FPVs without the FPV ever knowing what hit it. These flak guns are a counter to anything and everything airborne that enters their range.

>>64226023
Why would a trivial challenge like that require any luck? This isn't WWII anymore, AA guns these days have fire-control well beyond the crew trying to eyeball it.

>>64226043
We ar eonly at the beginn ing of the evolution of AA guns in combat. Futujre AA guns will be fully autonomous AI-guided weapons, potentially rendering any and all kind of airpower or drone utterly obsolete. Drones will again be behind the curve and totally befuddled. Droneshills will, as ever, be coping and seething.

>>64226061
>>detects your retarded toy with an array of /cameras feeding into a machine vision algorithm/LIDAR/RADAR/microphone sensors
where are these cameras? ukraine already has the skyranger gun in combat use, have they downed a single fpv with it? you know the answer.

>>64212942 (OP)
Yea, you're really unterestimating the effectivenes of timed fuses and shrapnel rounds.

>>64212944
...then AA guns would be completely useless, since modern planes will never get into range. Not even helicopters will.
AA guns were obsolete until drones turned up and gave them a target again.

>>64212942 (OP)
The Sky Ranger fires 30mm grenades that explode and take a drone out. They're also much faster than a drone is.

>>64216213
Americans do it too, Pidor

>>64224807
Shoud have put it on something lighter, simple and cheaper. SHORAD assets goin to be in demand and pricing for a fancy tracked armored vehicle will probably go overboard

>>64213833
The gunner's name? The Pidor of Kiev

>>64227008
The turret is modular, can be mounted on a truck bed or stationary concrete foundation.

>>64225972
>fpvs can fly at cat height level
First: small fpvs are a bitch to control manually under tree level, good way to lose your fpvs in a bush
(or to a cat given your video)
Second: AA gun can detect fpvs at any height, so long as you have direct line of sight.
Third: don't expect your enemy to cooperate with the creation of your perfect battlefield, giving you an obvious blind spot to exploit.

You'll be like
>I'm a genius! I will fly my low drone right up to this turret!
>oh no! It is physically impossible to not enter its field of vision and be shot in seconds!

>>64226043
>future fpv drones will be fully autonomous AI guided drones
By that level of technology anti-fpvs turret will also be autonomous with AI targeting that won't be fooled by disguising your drones as a bird or other shit
Assuming we didn't reach a level high enough for walking robot to patrol, sniping anything humanoid & drones, while surviving small arms. The only reason to not send a flying-turret being solely a matter of how fast it can detect threat through cheaper drone.

It's hilarious how our modern war end up looking like retro-cyberpunk.

>>64226189
Ukraine are not given enough weapons to have them where needed. Stopping Shahed from hitting infrastructure take priority over holding the lines.
Blame the POTUS played like a trumpet by Putin.

>>64228624
Yeah, blame America because Ukraine doesn't have enough German AAA systems

>>64228634
Isn't Rheinmetall Air Defence still Swiss?

>>64228634
Well, yes. American aren't doing their part anymore to stop the war, Germany can only do so much.

>>64230108
germany has twice the GDP of russia

>>64230766
And burgers are supposed to have a mightier military than the rest of the world combined

This thread has a stink that can be detected from orbit by NASA satellites. Maybe put this kind of effort into shilling for toilets in your homeland, yeah?