Thread 64213162

>Solar farms are comprised of millions of panels over a city sized area
>Rooftop solar provides a decent amount of power independent from the grid
>Wind farms are comprised of thousands of turbines over a city sized area
>Wind and solar farms don't contain highly flammable/explosive fuel within them, nor do they need massive pipelines
>EVs don't give a shit about your the chemical composition of your hydrocarbons, or if they have been mixed with water, an electron is an electron no matter what
>Same for other electrized pieces of equipment like heat pump vs gas boilers etc etc

Maybe Russia will stop sabotaging global renewable industry and EVs after this. Solar and Wind are distributed infrastructure done right, they're almost impossible to destroy fully without an insane amount of munitions being thrown at them. Really should have taken a page out of China's book and invested at least a little into renewables and EVs, maybe they won't be so fucked now. Because the way I see it, if Ukraine can make even a single flamingo a day, this winter is gonna to be very very bad for Russia, maybe even the total shutdown of their entire oil&gas infrastructure next year for anything west of the Urals, which also means near collapse of their entire energy infrastructure, transport and industry.

Crazy how China is taking all the right steps for a potential war despite not actually being in any conflict, while Russia keeps jumping into conflict after conflict, but does nothing to actually harden their society and infrastructure for war. All while having China has an ally and partner, who would be more than happy to sell them all the renewables and EVs that they need.

>>64213162 (OP)
EVs are gay

>>64213171
Chinese ones also explode

look up how efficient wind and solar are you retarded chink shill

The dry, year-round sunny land suitable for large-scale solar power generation has been separated from Russia.
Solar power generation is also useless during the bitterly cold nights. Large-scale storage batteries are still underdeveloped and expensive.

>>64213171
I think that having fuel shortages in the 2nd largest oil/gas producing country on earth is even gayer.
>>64213180
And yet they don't go up in flames in a single drone strike. It's not like Russia doesn't have millions of km^2 of land that they can cover in solar panels and wind farms. China already takes something like 30% of their energy needs from wind and solar, enough to cover Russia's energy needs a few times over, and they have much less land than Russia.

>>64213162 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s37cnumQ67U

>>64213162 (OP)
>Solar
No, a waste of resources with their climate. Meanwhile they have one of the (completely no utilized) wind power in the world but they russians....

>>64213197
Solar is less than ideal for Russia, but Russia has plenty of wind resources. And it's still possible to brute force enough solar, even if it's less efficient. Russia has a lot of land

Russia is actually a pretty substantial portion of the fission power market and that irks me.
I wish the west wasn't as gay on that subject.

>>64213238
>I wish the west wasn't as gay on that subject.
you can thank the zigs for some of that too

I think the catch with China is they don't / can't produce enough fossil fuels to cover their own demand. China is relatively vulnerable to interdiction of their supply chain, so investing in renewable technology is in their strategic interest.

>>64213244
Yeah, I'm well aware. Anyone who has substantially impeded fission power should be executed.
t. someone who gets his power from an old ass NPP

>>64213210
>Meanwhile they have one of the (completely no utilized) wind power in the world but they russians....

Yeah lol, Russia is like SJW warriors, they love to virtue signal. They could have a few dozen gigawatts of wind and maybe like 1% EV rate if they actually bothered, which can help relive some pressure on their grid and fuel infrastructure right now. But nope, renewables=evil in their minds, so they deliberately suppress renewables, even if it makes sense, which results in Russia having like 1 gigawatt worth of wind power, which is less than nothing for a country of that size.

>>64213238
Just as vulnerable to being attacked. If the war drags on and Ukraine grows desperate enough, don't be surprised if they actually send a missile at a nuclear plant. Also, I really can't trust Russia with nuclear power, not with their corruption issues and with them basically becoming a failed state at this point. We already see Rosatom struggling heavily with budget issues, which will probably lead to corners being cut.

>>64213269
>Just as vulnerable to being attacked.
NPPs are extremely resilient to attack. You need weapons designed to penetrate a lot of concrete or otherwise have a LOT of explosives to do anything of note.

>>64213257
True, but a nice side effect is that solar/wind are distributed infrastructure that are much less vulnerable to attack. Their surrounding infrastructure is also a lot safer, no need for refineries, or pipelines, or fuel storage. You also don't have to worry about something mixing fuel with water or mixing diesel and petrol.
>>64213275
You don't need to destroy a power plant to stop it's operation. Even if it's safe, do you think anyone sane will continue to operate a nuclear plant after it's been attacked, even if it didn't actually breached the core of the plant? They will shut things down for a few weeks to inspect for damage, even if it's superficial. Not to mention the low level waste that's usually stored near the plant, cleaning it up will be a mess. That's why Ukraine might actually do it, of course nobody sane will actually want to cause another chernobyl level nuclear accident, but a missile strike that causes superficial damage that still results in the entire plant being closed for weeks. Entirely possible.

>>64213162 (OP)
Solar and wind have two obvious problem. They are not a reliable and consistent energy source that you can rely on 24/7.

Solar dont work at night (duh) or when something is blocking it (thick clouds)

Wind dont work when there is no wind obviously.

Remember when the ziggers were making fun out of ukranien civilians relying on gasoline powered generators when the ziggers started bombing ukraines energy infrastructure when it became obvious the war was not gona end in 3 months? Gasoline, gas, oil, disel powered generators can provide electrical power 24/7 regardless of weather condition if you got the fuel for it. Nuclear and hydropower plants are also consistent energy source to a degree (if you got good amount of nuclear fuel and high water levels in the dam).

And yes, you cant really bomb solar farms and wind turbines as effectively as large oil refiners (that are massive potentional bombs if you detonate them with your own bomb) you can bomb the thing that connect them to the electrical grid or bomb the electrical grid itself. Pic + Video related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2AFRqTyBLk

Imagine a flamingo (or a cesna) flying into a electrical substation every day.

OP I think the solution for russias fuel shortage is to give up and stop the war. They clearly dont have any air defense that is not cucked so they cant defend anything anyway.

>>64213162 (OP)
Russia is quite possibly the worst country on Earth for solar power.

Solar power seems like the absolute easiest to attack means of generating electricity physically possible. I wonder how much capacity a small plane with a bunch of claymores could destroy.

>>64213318
Not really, there's potential near their southern areas. They have more than enough land for it.
>>64213319
Solar farms are large and can be easily repaired. They're probably the worse energy infrastructure to try to destroyed

>>64213319
Smash the glass on the surface and you'll expose the rare-earth metals and the other expensive shit that makes it run to the elements. You don't even need a bomb. Just a jet hitting mach speeds at a low enough altitude is enough to deal damage to the field.

>>64213313
>They are not a reliable and consistent energy source that you can rely on 24/7.

You don't have to power your entire grid on them. But a small mix is good. It certainly won't be hurting Russia if they had access to few dozen more gigawatts of wind and solar right now.

> if you got the fuel for it.

That's the thing, Ukraine is bombing the shit out of Russia's oil/gas infrastructure. Not just the refineries, but the pipelines and fuel depots. And everything in Russia needs oil/gas. You knock those out, heating/transport/electricity/industry goes away all at once.

> you can bomb the thing that connect them to the electrical grid or bomb the electrical grid itself.

You can say the same for all types of power plants. Coal/gas/oil/nuclear also needs transformers and power lines and substations. The catch is that they're less vulnerable to attack and cheaper to replace.

>Imagine a flamingo (or a cesna) flying into a electrical substation every day.

Transformers and electrical substations are less vulnerable targets than a gas power plant and they are cheaper and easier to replace too.

>>64213360
What part of "solar farms are the size of a small city" don't you get? You can space them apart however much you like too, if someone wanted to waste a few hundred missiles on destroying one.

>>64213339
>Solar farms are large and can be easily repaired
Wow, an actual retard.

It's like attacking farmland, so it's likely to be highly durable. However, just like harvests from the fields are collected in silos, there are also electricity-concentrating facilities.

>>64213379
Have fun with your exploding refineries and power plants.

>>64213390
Have fun with things vulnerable to anti infantry weapons

>>64213394
Spread out over a few dozen square miles.

>>64213162 (OP)
>impossible to destroy fully without an insane amount of munitions being thrown at them.
Not true. Didn't finish eading. Drone 1 blade to unbalance a single tower. Hit the hub and damabe the bearings or slip rings for more. The ifx is not trivial. OC.

>>64213398
Which when all you have to do is hit them with fragments is a non issue. Think of M30A1/2s with their tungsten fragments. If you made something specifically for the task out of steel instead and delivered it via a drone plane like Ukraine likes to use you could release a lot of munitions each dispersing shrapnel over hundreds of square meters.

>>64213162 (OP)
>weapons?

>>64213275
>NPPs are extremely resilient to attack
Nigger WHAT? Outside of the containment building itself, NPPs are as fragile as anything else and monstrously expensive to repair.

Big solar fields will have a big conversion station near it to supply the energy into the grid. You can't just hit it and other transformation stations to force it down.

>>64213364
>You don't have to power your entire grid on them. But a small mix is good. It certainly won't be hurting Russia if they had access to few dozen more gigawatts of wind and solar right now.
Sure but even in your scenario. The first thing they ukraine would bomb the oil infrastructure because it is simply a more dangerous target (provide power 24/7 regardless of weather condition). You can have a situation where the solar and wind farms connection have not been bombed at all but because of weather condition those farms are not providing power anyway (or in sufficent amount to meet current day demand)

>You can say the same for all types of power plants
Yes so saying russia might be in better situation if they had more wind and solar is a bit questionable since they also have the same vulnerability when ti comes to the connection to the electrical grid. Once they are done bombing the oil industry they will switch over to the connection point for the renewable industry. It is a lose-lose situation. The only way to win is to have a non-cucked air defense that can intercept attacks before they daamage your infrastructure.

>The catch is that they're less vulnerable to attack and cheaper to replace.
>Transformers and electrical substations are less vulnerable targets than a gas power plant and they are cheaper and easier to replace too.
Define cheap because the initial replacemnt cost is gona be cheap until the point where you run out of spare transformers and need to build new ones or buy some from china. You need trained people to rebuild and reconnect the whole thing just like the oil pipeline and you got a limited amount of trained people. Ukraine is able to replace their transformers thanks to the help of EU and the EU is quite open about their help for Ukraine and even then, the shahed spam (which have much smaller warheads then flamingo) fucked ukraines electrical grid up very hard.

Ukraine is right beside EU, Western russia is very far from china.

>>64213415
>hundreds of square meters.

Congrats, you have destroyed 1% of the solar farm. Total cost to replace those panels are in the hundred of thousands of dollars and a few weeks of time. Also the rest of the solar farm can still generate electricity without issue. Meanwhile that same missile if used on a refinery or gas power plant, will destroy hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment, and render their output nil for years.
>>64213522
Still better than losing a refinery or gas power plant. Electrical substations and transformers are a lot easier to replace and repair. Alot easier to hide and armour too.

>>64213162 (OP)
Pro tip: there are no shortages except on some remote islands. Even the price is well within +/- 10% of normal. Such is the life in the shellful country, Gayrapeans!

>>64213535
To continue
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalf_sniper_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore_County_substation_attack
If some dude with a gun can cause 15 million $ in daamge while not disrupting power or cut the power for 40000 residents then imagine a drone carry a 20 kilo HE warhead slamming into a substation could cause. Imagine a 1000 kilo warhead from the flamingo.

Sure if you order 1000 transformer and spare electrical parts from china in one bulk order it might be cheap to replace but there is gona be time delay for production, transportation and then finally storage close by. At that point you might have lost 100's transformers and substations to small cruise missile drone attacks.

Key point with this image, most of russia live in the western part. Most of all russian electrical substations that are relevant for russia are all in range for ukraines missile attack.