Thread 64214659

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJSFFYivG1A&lc=UgwzOzRaz6A8xHKQX0B4AaABAg.AMSVor9IpPyAMTCCIJQLJW
> military branches and entire nation are ditching artillery for missiles
> even mortars are being canceled
it seems they have finally realized that FPV have changed war forever, the age of saturation fire is over, every single piece of ordnance will be guided to a target now
kinda sad desu

>>64214659 (OP)
Cappy has probably the most braindead normoid viewers in existence. Watch Justin Taylor instead, at least he glows.

>>64214659 (OP)
At what range?

>>64214713
the only argument for tube artillery is cost, it's now irrelevant when 1 fpv / kamikaze drone can hit the target where you would have needed dozens of shell to hit it
adding loitering capacity, the ability to hit moving targets, and on top of all of that no need for expensive, bulky slow to set up artillery pieces
it doesn't make sense anymore, I'm glad the west is seeing the light

>>64214758
>FPVs
dude lmao you're losing more than 50% of them to attrition towards the target.

Western militaries that aren't poor have been PGM spamming for a while. Shit's been blueballed ever since the collapse of the USSR, see this example of total airbase death:
https://youtu.be/kIXtcCHbOCQ

Iraq got pounded by this instead because a very blueballed US didn't get to lay some smackdown against the Soviets.

>>64214659 (OP)
>> military branches and entire nation are ditching artillery for missiles
>posts a pic of a war where both sides are using as much artillery, cruise missiles, PGM, ATGM as they can and those FPVs are a complement instead of a true replacement.
>a war where they see drones in general, and quadcopter drones as more valuable for ISR than attack (it came later)
>post a video of a rearded bug-stare normie

>>64214783
>dude lmao you're losing more than 50% of them to attrition towards the target.
could be 80% and it would still be better than risking a single 777 and it's crew
Iraq was 20 years ago, if FPVs existed back then coalition forces would have seen insane apc and tanks losses considering what garbage ied were able to do

>>64214800
criticizing the messenger will not change reality
pic related even russia who's entire battle doctrine depend on tube artillery has accepted it
it is just not economically viable anymore

We just need to make JDAMs for mortars, a gps or ai programmed kit that can guide dumb mortars onto target.

>>64214858
>losing artillery pieces reduces ammunition use
>they blow out their barrels faster
>no new barrels

>>64214858
That still is 3 million 155/152 shells per side. Russia spent 20-30 million shells/rockets/mortar shells during the first 18 months, that was unsustainable, comparable to soviets during late WWII but without total war economy, nowadays they are shooting like early WWII in ordnance weight, but they replaced the longer range artillery (beyond 30 km) with glide bombs.
Drones only made war more lethal.

The thing functionally is extinct are MBT and IFV because they can't fulfill their original role with their current numbers.

>>64214858
>losing guns, crews and having a shortage on ammo is akshually based and smart because the glorious tzar is just ahead of the curve
you fucking third world cancerpods will twist everything to fit your shit-filled headcanon

>>64214659 (OP)
AT4 costs $2500.
FPV drone $500
The is literally no reason to procure conventional RPGs. All their warheads should be strapped to FPV drones.

>>64214783
>dude lmao you're losing more than 50% of them to attrition towards the target.
Now count attrition losses of artillery shells, oofy.

>>64214758
>it doesn't make sense anymore, I'm glad the west is seeing the light
I wouldn't discount artillery and high end PGM completely.
There are FPV counters like EW, now slowly when have micro Air Defense appearing. You need higher end and mor difficult to intercept systems to suppress these defenses. But yeah mundane bulk work is shifting to cheapest possible drones.

>>64214758
Drones can't lift 155mm shells.
I think arty will stick around for a while.

>>64216809
>Drones can't lift 155mm shells.
I have a strong suspicion I saw a photo proof of the opposite ~here ~a month ago

>>64214758
>bulky slow to set up artillery pieces
Modern artillery can drive within range of the targets, have three shells in the air and be on their way back before they hit their target.

>>64216809
>>64216969
picrel

>>64217219
>have three shells in the air and be on their way back before they hit their target.
You aren't hitting anything with 3 rounds, Chud.

>>64214758
This is like trying to argue that infantry volume of fire for movement suppression is irrelevant.
Arty is for strikes on encamped/emplaced assets and forcing armor to reroute or delay and knocking out bridges when airstrikes are unsafe or unavailable and a million other things.

Fuck off

>>64217335
You need hundreds 155mm rounds to hit bunker.
Or one Baba Yaga flight landing AT mine on the bunker roof.

Tanks are literally extinct because of the FPV.
Remember how USSR/Russia scared everybody with infinite tanks stocks? Well these tanks that made boomers piss and shit their pants are all gone, killed by AliExpress toys.

>>64214758
>more drone faggotry

>>64217599
Have you considered running in front of a moving bus?

>>64217599
Why do you feel compelled to exaggerate so hard that you become wrong?

>>64217240
Holy shit I stand corrected

>>64217240
How long until drones start dropping literal stones or concrete to kill people?

dronefags really are the worst

>>64218570
you're evolving backwards

>>64214659 (OP)
its a big change no doubt but DITCH ARTILLERY do you realize artillery existed since at least the roman times (i dont know how they fought before that)

>>64214659 (OP)
Every time there is a battlefield innovation the armchair generals come out of the woodworks to declare that war is changed forever and all technology will go into the dustbin of history. Meanwhile what actually happens every single time is that war just gets that much shittier while every kind of weapon ever invented still sees use in some fucking war somewhere on the planet.

>>64218581
>its a big change no doubt but DITCH SWORDS do you realize swords existed since at least the roman times (i dont know how they fought before that)

>>64217335
all of that can be done with drones at a cheaper cost, more accurately and without revealing your own position

>>64214659 (OP)
This is true for maritime warfare, not so much for continental wars.
You are looking at generational differences between autonomous aircraft vs manned tube guns, which the former dominates in observation, raids, interdiction of great depth but relatively low intensity, duration and control of the area while the later given much better observation from the former, can still keeps amassed movement firmly at bay and holds up the line but cannot push each other out. This combination results in the current strategic stand still+endless tactical probe attack with favorable attrition but no feasible follow up to take ground off the weakened enemy. Despite all the gloating from drone and missile heads and shifts in production, there is still not enough flying shells to take out all the tubes staked on the ground or have something else stake the ground for them for victory.
Mind you that the tube artillery has yet to receive all of the consumer grade redesigning yet to lower cost and mass production. When it does, there is not stopping the sprinkler system of shells. The war ends when tubes are free to move in the age of ultralight aircrafts, someting like a large flying dorito inerting autonomous tube artillery in nerves that can sustain the shut down or asked be removed at great cost.

>>64220427
I'd argue the exact opposite. To copy and paste something I said from an old thread:
Warships do not operate anchored half a mile off a coast and no, the gay orgy zigger navy getting btfoed by Ukies is not an example to use. They're always on the move, shooting from OTH with layered detection suites. Your 'cheap fpv-drones' fall out of the sky with soft kill jamming or the battery dying 15 minutes in. If they make it that far they get fried by laser based SHORAD. Shahsneeds are lobotomized cruise missiles lumbering along at 100 mph with an impotent warhead the tenth that of one. Frogs, wops and burgers have all been shooting them with and without AHEAD ammo using the deck gun ever since they started getting used.

Drones won't do jack shit to naval warfare for any competent force, even when used in conjunction with a strike by real AScMs or ASBMs.

Entrenched infantry holding ground don't have the advantage of mobility or perfect visibility allowing drones to be a threat from many more vectors.

>>64219517
You're a retard like that other retard I've been calling a retard in the other thread.

>>64220455
Maritime is not naval. Merchant ships already react in a way that results in economic downturn for all traders with increased shipping cost and delay just from shitty weapon launched by shitty sea crews from the most backward country. Sneedhead along with asm, speed boat and usv will all remain seated on the porch. Anyone enroute with little to lose can join.
Until deck gun flies and patrols the sea, jet hours and guided missiles will be used to protect other ship not having it and is usually outside the range of deck guns.

>>64220455
maybe you should read better, the OP is about the end of unguided weapons not "everything will be done by FPVs"

obviously FPV aren't a thread to warships but missiles are, they are basically the only thing warships use now, that in itself was a revolution decades ago
same thing happen with aerial bombardment, nobody would even think about carpet bombing today, because Jdam have given B52s the ability to pin point targets
today we are seeing a very similar revolution on land, where FPV's low cost and accuracy benefits are making traditional artillery obsolete
when 3 guys can pick enemy combatant one by one with FPVs, the age of saturating an area with artillery is coming to an end
for anything beyond FPV range, missile and kamikaze drones are just more more accurate and thus more cost effective

I wonder how much rage there would have been here if /k/ existed wen Battleships were replaced by carriers or when jest started using sidewinders
regardless how gay FPVs combat is, there is no coming back now

>>64221208
I was referring directly to that anon and not the OP and as I have admitted drones will still play a big role on ground combat.

>>64214659 (OP)
Da guns are obsolete in the West because without shells they are useless. But the western guided ammo suffers the same fate

>>64221323
Did you miss the EU 6x ing their shell production to hit 2 million annually by EOY?

>>64217240
Fuck scooters, individual copters when?

>>64221337
They don't. As fake as their fake gee dee pee. They are shelless. No respelt for shelles nations whatsoever.

>>64221346
k

>>64221346
>imagine being this retarded

>>64221346
>europeans can't do stuff
Europeans took over the world and then "world war'd" each other twice, after centuries of consant wars, after a decades long plague took at least 30% of their population, after the dissolution of their ancestral hegemony, after that proto-modern civilization structure of europeans took over the fucking world.

I think poking that bear is a bit silly, hmm? Hmm?

>>64221478
>Sleeping European bear but it's a friendly looking bear with an apron that sells cosy home made pastries that have traditionally been made in this place for a thousand years and he put in extra jam just for you and also the bear has killed fiddy men

>>64214758
Yeh im seeing the light.

The light from the fires of this new hell. I hope you go straight there since you love it so much.

>>64221478
And in (((this year))) they still have no shells. The shelless nations shall fear the shellful ones.

>>64221877
k

>>64221877
Shellful(nork)

>>64221877
All this talk of shells.
https://youtu.be/CMNry4PE93Y

>>64214783
>>64214783
>dude lmao you're losing more than 50% of them to attrition towards the target.
Taking out a target in two rounds that a tube would take 10, or require a much more expensive guided setup is a good trade.

>>64221208
>the end of unguided weapons
Yeah, unguided weapons ended in naval warfare for anything aside from bullying people that can't shoot back, in the 70s at the latest

>>64215564
There's still probably a use for a tube of fuck off any grunt can point at the enemy and shoot.

>>64214758
>the target where you would have needed dozens of shell to hit it
For those of us in the first world, it only takes one.

>>64214758
Wrong

Artillery has quickest reaction time to newly discovered target, under a minute