Thread 64218272

Rifle-rated armor plate is objectively the most useless piece of equipment in an infantry loadout.
Statistically speaking, >99% of casualties in modern combat are done by a combination of airstrikes, drone strikes, and artillery strikes. Infantry small arms account for less than 1% of casualty in modern combat.
Rifle-rated armor plate only barely covers the heart and lungs of the wearer from the front and rear of the wearer's upper torso.
Airstrikes, drone strikes, and artillery strikes create >99% of modern combat casualties primarily through high-explosive fragmentation. These fragments either blow off the limbs of an infantry (which are not covered by rifle-rated armor plate), or hit the neck, groin, and stomach of an infantry (which are also not covered by rifle-rated armor plate). The probability of an infantry getting hit by rifle bullets in modern combat is so comically small that it can be practically ignored.
Instead of carrying two heavy useless plates of ceramic / steel, an infantry could've chosen to carry extra ammo, extra batteries, or thermal goggles for the same weight as armor plates instead. Carrying any of these things are significantly more useful in modern combat than carrying rifle-rated armor plates.
Protection from direct hit by rifle bullets is statistically irrelevant in modern combat.

Nah I'm gonna wear the armor

post one physical item you own

>>64218290
inb4 the owns like 10 plates

>>64218272 (OP)
Infantry going out and engaging the enemy are statistically way more likely to get shot (for obvious reasons), most soldiers aren't closing with and destroying the enemy though, and they don't always wear plates.

>>64218290
Post nose

>>64218320
Infantry is more likely to get hit by fragments from airstrikes, drone strikes, and artillery strikes than get hit by rifle bullets. Rifle-rated armor plates are nothing more than deadweights on an infantry.

>>64218279
Enjoy wearing 10kg of useless ceramic that will do absolutely nothing to stop the fragments from shredding your face, blowing off your limbs, and punching a million holes through your stomach and waist. None of these places on your body is covered by your 10kg of useless ceramic btw.

>>64218349
At urban or CQB distances, rifle threats spike and plates matter more.

Your shallow analysis considers the whole as one circumstance when a variety of scenarios exist

>>64218272 (OP)
>>64218338
Armor saves lives and helps gives troops confidence to carry out dangerous tasks, way to out yourself as someone too weak and too pussy to carry the weight
>kg

And you're European, as if anyone cares about your opinion. I own more money in my AVS and Hescos than you do in weapons nigger

>>64218349
that's why infantry use vests that have BOTH soft frag protection and plates. since you don't know that I assume you have no knowledge of how combat works, and you opinion is worthless.

>>64218458
>And you're European
Americans thinking only Europe uses metric

>>64218465
Still a pussy that can't handle 20lbs on his torso. It's ok bub, gunfighting is for real men

>>64218465
Dude, Europe is the charitable assumption here, are you something worse like a bug or a hue?

>>64218272 (OP)
Didn't read all of that but I'm proud of you and/or sorry for your loss

>>64218480
Or literally just about any country

>>64218272 (OP)
>Rifle-rated armor plate only barely covers the heart and lungs of the wearer from the front and rear of the wearer's upper torso
These happen to have the most important organs inside them

>>64218432
Rifle rated plate is irrelevant in modern urban combat.
Modern urban combat consists of sending an FPV drone into the building, then throw a hundred grenades into the building to make sure everyone inside is dead before going in.
You are not supposed to enter the building without doing all these steps first, and you certainly are not expected to get shot by enemy rifle after you've done all these steps.

>>64218458
Rifle rated armor plate does not save life. The fact that >99% of modern combat casualties are caused by fragments blowing off faces, limbs, and stomachs that are not covered by rifle rated plate proved that rifle rated plate is useless at saving lives.

>>64218461
Nobody is wearing frag vest in modern combat because frag vest is too heavy and makes modern infantry immobile.
You will be more likely to die of overheating if you wear frag vest in modern combat compared to getting hit by bullet.
Also, frag from artillery strikes and airstrikes has more kinetic energy than pistol bullet and will shred through drag vest, so even less reason for modern infantry to wear frag vest.
If you want frag protection, you don't wear frag vest. You travel in armoured vehicle or dig a trench.

>>64218580
>Rifle rated plate is irrelevant in modern urban combat.
so irrelevant that virtually every country that can afford to do so does so
and countries that cant do so are struggling to get them

>>64218607
>Nobody is wearing frag vest in modern combat
google the IOTV, retard.

>>64218540
Fragments from airstrikes, drone strikes, and artillery strikes shred through face, limbs, and stomachs, causing massive unstoppable bleeding leading to inevitable death. None of these body parts are covered by your shitty rifle plates btw.

>>64218475
>Real men getting BTFO'd by airstrikes, artilleries, and drones remotely operated by Emily
Real men are obsolete in modern combat kek

>armor doesn't make you invincible, so it's useless!
what's with all the retard threads lately?

>>64218272 (OP)
>99% of casualties are from air strike, drone, artillery
>source: My ass

>>64218612
Only stupid countries buy rifle plates for urban combat.
Smart countries buy grenades and drones instead of rifle plates because they understand that grenades and drones are more important and useful in urban combat than rifle plates.

>>64218621
>causing massive unstoppable bleeding leading to inevitable death
exsanguination only leads to fatalities about 10% of the time
so its almost always a better idea to trade a chest wound for a limb wound, if a choice is available

the parts protected by the plate are also your most important body parts other than your brain, your heart and lungs
it makes sense to afford them much more protection than any other part of your body

the bomber statistical problem is another thing
fewer chest injuries started occurring after the mass adoption of chest armor
either the enemy got really good at aiming or the chest armor did something
fragmentation is also equally distributed across your body and affected solely by surface area, so covering 5% more of your body is a linear increase in 5% reduction in casualties, so the plate will reduce injury by that amount and could stop heavier fragmentation on top of that

>>64218650
>Only stupid countries buy rifle plates for urban combat.
>every single country in the world is stupid
empirical evidence suggests armor is important

>>64218527
>le canada n'est melange aussi
Quoi??

>>64218620
IOTV got retired +20 years ago because nobody wants to wear it retard.
Nobody is wearing IOTV now because it's so heavy you literally cannot move faster than a snail wearing one and you will die of overheating because wrapping your whole body in 50 kg of Kevlar is fucking stupid.

>>64218646
>This nigger doesn't know how to use Google

Hmm, I wonder if everyone wearing anti-rifle armor cuts down on the casualties sustained from rifle fire. Impossible to say.

Maybe we could set up some kind of decades long test where people in body armor got into a lot of gunfights with people that don't have it, and compare how well each side fares.

>>64218657
>IOTV got retired +20 years ago
just wrong, the IBA was retired ~20 years ago. the IOTV was replaced a few years ago by the MSV. you don't know what you're talking about, and you should shut up.

>>64218272 (OP)
Soldiers wear the IOTV. It's a frag vest that covers your entire torso plus front, back and side plates.

Ya fuckin nerd.

>>64218651
Getting your limbs blown off by fragments from artillery, airstrike, or drone will cause you to lose so much blood so fast that its literally impossible to stop the bleeding fast enough to prevent death.
The difference in time taken to die between a bullet hole in the chest and entire limb blown off by fragments is virtually zero.

>>64218671
>I wonder if everyone wearing anti-rifle armor cuts down on the casualties sustained from rifle fire
unsurprisingly, actual hard data is not readily accessible to the public, since you dont want to tell the enemy how you plan to improve your armor

but data suggests that moving from PASGT to interceptor body armor (which includes rifle protection) decreased casualties by about 50% regardless of whether it was from gunfire or IEDs

>>64218685
>>64218657

>>64218687
>impossible to stop the bleeding fast enough to prevent death
tourniquet
are you this dumb on purpose, or do you not know anything about what you are talking about?

>>64218687
>Getting your limbs blown off by fragments from artillery, airstrike, or drone will cause you to lose so much blood so fast that its literally impossible to stop the bleeding fast enough to prevent death.
death by exsanguination was relatively low at only 10% of casualties and most of it was due to avoidable circumstances
ie. no medics on hand
limb casualties were often the most survivable
chest injuries the least

>>64218692
>>64218674

>>64218692
>IOTV got retired +20 years ago
Dumbfuck. The IOTV was introduced in 2007, which is 18 years ago, how would it be retired before it was even produced? You have no clue what you're talking about, nigger. It's still the standard issue body armor for soldiers.

>>64218685
Op is just some fucking retard who is probably coping for not being able to afford them. My best friend was a field surgeon but i dont need him to tell me plates have saved many lives. When i got shot on a room entry i didnt feel the bruise until i saw it. You could say it didnt go so well for the unarmored occupants

https://academic.oup.com/milmed/article-abstract/178/4/421/4222863?redirectedFrom=fulltext
>There has been a reported increase in combat-related head, face, and neck (HFN) injuries among service personnel wearing combat body armor (CBA) that have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. Modern ceramic plate CBA has decreased the incidence of fatal-penetrating injuries to the torso but offers no protection to the limbs and face which remain exposed to gunshot wounds and fragments from explosive devices

> There appears to be no evidence to suggest that by virtue of wearing CBA the likelihood of sustaining an HFN injury increases as such, but a higher incidence of fragment injuries to the HFN region may be due to the more common use of improvised explosive devicess and other explosive devices

the only study done on "does wearing heavier chest armor make you more likely to be hit in the neck or face" says the answer is either "no" or "maybe, but only because IEDs are used more"
either way, no where close to suggesting it isnt worth wearing

>>64218714
>When i got shot on a room entry i didnt feel the bruise until i saw it.
Your vidya gameplay is not real life experience Timmy

>>64218731
ah, OP is a rage baiting fag. it all makes sense now.

>>64218655
Parce que ce plan est tort et nul

>>64218664
>no source
Post guns with time stamp

>>64218777
Post tits

>>64218272 (OP)
Not the odds but the stakes
All fields

>>64218589
Those injuries aren't immediately fatal. You can survive limb loss. The fact there are so many wounded vets these days is because they would have been dead without the armor or medicine to save them. 3/10 b8 thread

we should wear sealed armored torso and head suits, potentially with unarmored exo skeletons for the limbs. in the event of catastrophic damage to the arms and legs they will be severed by electro-mechanical tourniquets

its like an all or nothing amour scheme for a battleship. humans can survive as a torso+head popsical pretty well. After battle the limbless soldiers can be collected and refurbished

>>64218272 (OP)
>Statistically speaking, >99% of casualties in modern combat are done by a combination of airstrikes, drone strikes, and artillery strikes.
>Infantry small arms account for less than 1% of casualty in modern combat.

You ever wonder if that might be connected to guys weating rifle plates?

>>64218272 (OP)
>death from small arms
>Vietnam 51%, later 42.7% in 1966 and then 16% in 1970
>World war 2 32%
>Korea 33%
>modern combat 1%
Lol what. Do you have any source to back your argument?

>>64218742
OP is russian, Russians are coping with a lack of body armor by saying it does not matter anyway.

A simple case of the fox and the grapes except the fox have HIV, the grapes in russia got stolen+replaced with plastic grapes, and the edible grapes are imported from china and they are very expensive or taste bad.

>>64218272 (OP)
Rifles don't kill people because they're wearing rifle plates.

>>64220614
death vs wounded, wounded are still casualties. Your own source says that 80% of casualties were from shell fragments.

>>64220630
Which also means that 20% of casualties got caused by small arms.

Is there a single source that back up the idea of only 1 % of modern casualties is caused by small arms? The only known data on the russian side is this and it is still higher then 1% and there is an important catch to it.

For a person to be part of a casualty report that specifically counts what type of wound he have, he have to make it back (dead or alive) to some field hospital be part of the report. Any russian meat wave that get 100% wiped out assaulting a trench or get assaulted in their own trench, gets killed or captured wont show up in the report.

If anything, if you do get hit by small arms in the russian army then you have a very high chance of not returning to friendly lines at all.

>>64220614
This is correct. A russian just got BTFO'd last /gq/ thread so the kope is that rifle armor doesn't matter xaxaxaxa

>>64218272 (OP)
>we armored our soldiers with rifle proof plates and now rifles account for less than 1% of casualties
>let's get rid of the armor
comrade, putin here. i would like to give you the promotion to position of five star general. this is most brilliant idea of the military tactic i have heard since five pest campaign when china save their crops ahead of unprecedented natural disaster.

Boy, sure are a lot more garbage threads polluting the catalog lately. Wonder what's up.

OP is coping
Anyone with knowledge of emergency medicine understands it's a lot easier to slap a tourniquet on a limb than needle aspirate pneumothorax, much less stuff gauze into a chest wound full of shredded arteries as your patient bleeds out.
There's a reason ITAR prohibits export and every country currently fighting a war is trying to procure them.

>>64218657
I know people who are still issued IOTVs you colossal fucking retard, and MSV that is replacing it also has soft armor in its standard configuration. You have zero knowledge of modern body armor, medicine, or combat injuries and threats and you deserve to die from easily preventable wounds.

>>64218349
>kg
Noguns euro opinion ignored holy shit I cant believe you thought anyone here would take you seriously