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Thread 64220154

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Anonymous No.64220154 >>64220170 >>64220194 >>64220206 >>64220214 >>64222143 >>64222301 >>64222347 >>64222420 >>64222626 >>64223328 >>64223362 >>64223457 >>64223593 >>64223866
The M1 carbine was kind of mediocre. It just doesn't have any stopping power.
Anonymous No.64220170 >>64220172 >>64220504 >>64221641
>>64220154 (OP)
I guess smgs don't have stopping power either then
Anonymous No.64220172 >>64220254
>>64220170
SMGs typically aren't semi automatic
Anonymous No.64220194
>>64220154 (OP)
It's an upgrade to the pistol, which was quite useless.
Anonymous No.64220206
>>64220154 (OP)
it excelled in weight and size
Anonymous No.64220214
>>64220154 (OP)
And yet it fulfilled its purpose perfectly.
Anonymous No.64220237
Thanks for the thread OP!
Anonymous No.64220242
It was perfect in the role for which it was designed.
>lightweight
>more powerful than a handgun
>compact
>accurate
Anonymous No.64220254
>>64220172
plenty are select fire like the m2 though. What you should say is that you were wrong about stopping power, because lots of SMGs are chambered in smaller calibers than .30 Carbine.
Anonymous No.64220267
>+P .357 doesn't have stopping power
Hey sport, really cool take but next time you do any thinking keep it to yourself and don't make a thread about it. Sound good?
Anonymous No.64220280 >>64222325 >>64222392 >>64223373
Pre optics and plastic there is no better combat rifle
Anonymous No.64220429 >>64220444 >>64220493 >>64220550 >>64223380
What is this mystical stopping power?
Anonymous No.64220444 >>64220542 >>64220754 >>64222139
>>64220429
>What is this mystical stopping power?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_power
The stopping power of a condom could have prevented your post
Anonymous No.64220493
>>64220429
It's the factual notion of larger diameter projectiles, or projectiles that penetrate deeper, being more likely to cause central nervous system damage, which causes paralysis and incapacitates the attacker immediately.
Anonymous No.64220504
>>64220170
Correct, they don't.
Anonymous No.64220539 >>64223416
pfff that pos cant even pen vatniks of zerg rushing chinks and norks
pps43 is superior pdw btw :^)
Anonymous No.64220542
>>64220444
>Stopping power is the supposed ability of a weapon
>supposed
Sounds like bullshit to me
Anonymous No.64220550
>>64220429
It's a perk from CoD4
Anonymous No.64220754 >>64222111
>>64220444
I'm posing my statement as a ridicule of stopping power and its alleged benefits. I guess for infantry it could be useful, since there will be lots of inaccuracy during a battle; You may as well make some decent sized holes in someone.
Anonymous No.64221641
>>64220170
that's why they're full auto
Anonymous No.64222111
>>64220754
If I can only shoot someone once I'd rather it be .303 than .30 carbine
Anonymous No.64222139
>>64220444
>The stopping power of a condom could have prevented your post
Checked and keked
Anonymous No.64222143 >>64222337
>>64220154 (OP)
Agreed. It couldn't even punch through the Chinese soldiers' winter coats. What a piece of junk.
Anonymous No.64222301
>>64220154 (OP)
Yeah but it's so nifty
Light
Can pop off 15 rounds
Looks comfortable to hold
Anonymous No.64222303 >>64222316
test
Anonymous No.64222316
>>64222303
mods ban you for test posts now. how hard is it for you to write some nonsense in the thread?
Anonymous No.64222325 >>64222356
>>64220280
AS-44, StG44, Hyde 1944.
Anonymous No.64222337
>>64222143
Literally cope from G.Is who were inaccurate and got pushed back
>It was the guns! They can't penetrate coats! Too weak!
The Bongs somehow held off thousands of Chinese during Battle of Imjim River with shitty Lee Enfields, Stens and other crap and only got overrun because their 2" ran out of ammo.
Anonymous No.64222347 >>64222408
>>64220154 (OP)
>stopping power

Why do you assholes act like a shot that doesnโ€™t immediately separate a man from his soul is useless, and the man is gonna just continue to operate like the Terminator?
Anonymous No.64222356 >>64222377
>>64222325
>Hyde 1944
>a fucking MG42 QUICK CHANGE BARREL for a .30 Carbine
Now why the fuck would you need a-
>ROF 1200-1600
Anonymous No.64222377 >>64222398 >>64222417 >>64223373
>>64222356
There were a lot of 'should have been issued' weapons during WW2. Johnson 1941 rifle and LMG. Hyde 1944. Good stuff. Bongs had some great stuff in WW1 and interwar that could have done well too like the Farquah-Hill rifle and LMG.
Anonymous No.64222392
>>64220280
Garand
Anonymous No.64222398 >>64223405
>>64222377
Oh forgot the BSA Autorifle for the Bongs too. 10 round semi-auto rifle that fired .303 British, 7.92ร—57mm Mauser or 7.62ร—54mmR.
Anonymous No.64222408 >>64222454
>>64222347
Why do you act like calibre doesn't matter? Yes I'd rather the person I shoot die sooner rather than later
Anonymous No.64222417 >>64222434
>>64222377
Too expensive and or unreliable.
Anonymous No.64222420
>>64220154 (OP)
Works fine with SPs, doesn't matter with ball because they were all shit until M193.
Anonymous No.64222434 >>64222475 >>64222634 >>64223405
>>64222417
No, the issue is the MIC had invested too heavily into Garand, so despite the Johnson being objectively better and praised by a MoH winner, they didn't do it. It's the same reason the MIC didn't adopt the EM-2 the Bongs developed (or more specifically, .270 British/.280 British) as Garand essentially bribed to keep them around and funded propaganda that you can't risk losing small arms monopoly to the Bongs. Now, 50 years later, we're adopting Fury and Sneedmore is around.
Anonymous No.64222454 >>64222595
>>64222408
caliber DOES matter, but it's not the be all end all factor in lethality
Anonymous No.64222475
>>64222434
>Johnson
>good
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Anonymous No.64222595
>>64222454
But it was an important lacking factor in the GUN BEING DISCUSSED
Anonymous No.64222626 >>64222635
>>64220154 (OP)
>It just doesn't have any stopping power.
that doesn't help you when its trained paratroopers putting extra holes in you
Anonymous No.64222634 >>64222642
>>64222434
>invested too heavily into Garand
The Johnson is good, but the Garand was already being mass produced by 1941. Scaling up production was pretty straight forward. They could have introduced the Johnson parallel to the Garand but then you would have another .30-06 rifle and burdening the logistical train. It makes more sense in a war economy to keep pumping out the Garand. The Garand was already the only reliable mass produced mass issued rifle of the war anyway
Anonymous No.64222635
>>64222626
Yeah and how about the 99% of non-paratroopers who used it
Anonymous No.64222642 >>64222665
>>64222634
>The Garand was already the only reliable mass produced mass issued rifle of the war anyway
Quite simply not true
Anonymous No.64222665 >>64222670
>>64222642
Okay, the M1 carbine was pretty darn good too
Anonymous No.64222670 >>64222678
>>64222665
Are you saying bolt action rifles weren't reliable
Anonymous No.64222678
>>64222670
Oh you know what? I forgot to say "semi-auto" in that sentence
Anonymous No.64222948 >>64223059
Have you ever handled it or fired it? It's amazingly light and handy. I had never fired one before. My first time using mine, I used some 130gr reloads that were almost bare minimum to get it to cycle. I shot at some steel targets at 85 yards and it was thumping the fuck out of them. Noticeably more slap to it than 55gr 5.56 from a 20" AR.
Anonymous No.64223059
>>64222948
yeah but is the guy in a winter jacket 200 yards away gonna be laughing at you
Anonymous No.64223328 >>64223431
>>64220154 (OP)
.30 U.S Carbine can be very roughly comparable to .357 Magnum from a handgun, not a cannon by any means, but not anemic, at least not for its purpose.

The M1 Carbine was designed to be a replacement for handguns, a lightweight and easy to carry and use weapon which non-grunt troops could use to defend themselves with a lot better (shooting a handgun good is actually pretty difficult). It has much more range than a 1911 pistol, though it doesn't have really long effective range either, the entire purpose of the gun is to be a defensive weapon at fairly short ranges.
It was pretty good at that part, a medic or artilleryman had FAR better odds defending themselves from enemy soldiers when armed with the carbine, than when they were armed with revolvers or pistols.

Such as it is, the M1 Carbine ended up with grunts anyway, and they found that the light and handy weight wasn't just nice, but also that 15rds with hardly any recoil was actually pretty good at CQB ranges, hell, it had longer effective range than a .45 subgun. The magazines were pretty shit, but make sure to regularly replace them, and the gun could work pretty well.
Everyone wanted full-auto and stendos, but that didn't really become a thing until Korea.
In Korea, it gets used more broadly by people, and now an inexplicably less disciplined and well trained army led to people trying to use it at longer ranges, where it obviously didn't fare to well. Add the M2 being frequently used in full-auto (being notoriously jump if bursts aren't kept very short), and it didn't fare any better at long ranges.

So, it was a weapon which was pretty good at close quarters, like it was designed for, but then people wanted to use it at long ranges, often in the worst ways possible (full-auto), and then people started giving it shit for something it was never even meant to do.
Anonymous No.64223362
>>64220154 (OP)
I've owned 3 M1 carbines, just have one now. I agree, they're pretty shitty, but I also can't help but like them.
Anonymous No.64223373
>>64220280
I would take an old Type 3 AK47 over the M1 Carbine for combat any day. It's heavier, but it has way more range and far better reliability.
The M1 Carbine is good at close ranges, but if you're a grunt in a war, you can't always count on close range engagements.

>>64222377
>Johnson 1941 rifle and LMG.
Those were used by the Paramarines in the Pacific though, and they thought they were pretty good.

>Hyde 1944.
Convince me.

>Bongs had some great stuff in WW1 and interwar that could have done well too like the Farquah-Hill rifle and LMG.
I can think of far better concepts than what the Farquah-Hill was going for.
Anonymous No.64223380 >>64223390
>>64220429
The Taylor Knock Out Factor or TKO. This is a scientifically formulated measure of stopping power by Mr. Taylor, himself.
Anonymous No.64223390 >>64223399
>>64223380
>TKO
>AI Overview
>The Taylor Knockout Factor (TKO) for a .30 Carbine load is a numerical value that indicates a bullet's stopping power, calculated by multiplying the bullet's mass (in grains), velocity (in feet per second), and diameter (in inches), then dividing by 7,000. John Taylor, a mid-20th-century African hunter, developed the formula to compare the "knockout" effect of different cartridges on large game, particularly when a headshot missed the brain.
>The Formula:
>The formula to calculate the Taylor Knockout Factor (TKOF) is:
>TKOF = (Bullet Weight in Grains ร— Bullet Velocity in fps ร— Bullet Diameter in inches) / 7000
>How it Applies to .30 Carbine:
>Bullet Weight: A typical .30 Carbine bullet weighs around 110 grains.
>Bullet Velocity: Muzzle velocities for .30 Carbine are generally around 1,900-2,000 feet per second.
Bullet Diameter: The diameter of a .30 caliber bullet is approximately 0.3 inches.
It is VERY scientifical and based in math.
Anonymous No.64223399 >>64223419
>>64223390
You should upgrade to a 1 inch bore shooting a 110 grain projectile at 700 fps, it would have a bigger number.
Anonymous No.64223405 >>64223742 >>64224344
>>64222398
>BSA Autorifle
The fucking Thompson design with the Blish lock? That thing was a complete hunk of shit, why do you think they never saw mass production?

>>64222434
>despite the Johnson being objectively better
It's fucking not. The Johnson was a pretty good rifle, but it couldn't take a real bayonet, and it couldn't take a grenade launcher, both things which the M1 could.
The Johnson holds two more rounds, but you're loading that with a pair of 5rd stripper clips, whereas the M1 has you load a single 8rd en-bloc which it then spits out for you when finished, locking open to load the next one.

The Paramarines liked the Johnson because they couldn't get Garands like they wanted, and it was an ok substitute for that, but replacing the M1 with the Johnson would in ideal circumstances have been a colossal sidegrade. There's literally no good reason to do that.

>It's the same reason the MIC didn't adopt the EM-2 the Bongs developed (or more specifically, .270 British/.280 British)
The EM2 really isn't as good as you think that it is (and .270/.280 certainly isn't either). Churchill was right to pick the FAL instead.

>as Garand essentially bribed to keep them around and funded propaganda that you can't risk losing small arms monopoly to the Bongs.
What kind of delusional nonsense is this? The 7.62mm NATO autism was pretty much entirely Renรฉ Studler's fault.

>Now, 50 years later, we're adopting Fury and Sneedmore is around.
.277 Fury is a retarded cartridge for a retarded weapon's program.
Anonymous No.64223416 >>64223436
>>64220539
m1 carbine is more powerful, lighter and cooler
Anonymous No.64223419 >>64223455
>>64223399
Well, yeah. That just goes without saying. But that's not relevant to the thread, now is it? And that would defeat the concept of the carbine. Which is pronouced Car Bine.
Anonymous No.64223431 >>64223463
>>64223328
>30 U.S Carbine can be very roughly comparable to .357 Magnum from a handgun,
>125 gr (8 g) JHP Federal 1,450 ft/s (440 m/s) 583 ftโ‹…lbf (790 J)
158 gr (10 g) JHP Federal 1,240 ft/s (380 m/s) 539 ftโ‹…lbf (731 J)
180 gr (12 g) HC Buffalo Bore 1,400 ft/s (430 m/s) 783 ftโ‹…lbf (1,062 J)
200 gr (13 g) Double Tap 1,200 ft/s (370 m/s) 640 ftโ‹…lbf (870 J)
Test barrel length: 4 in (102 mm) (vented)
Source(s): Federal,[1]


M1 carbine
>110 gr (7 g) FMJ 1,990 ft/s (610 m/s) 967 ftโ‹…lbf (1,311 J)
Anonymous No.64223436 >>64224037
>>64223416
M1 Carbine does have more range and power than 7.62mm Tokarev (though 7.62mm Tokarev certainly isn't a weak pistol cartridge, from a longer subgun barrel it's pretty spiffy). However, the PPS-43 has a much better magazine with more than twice the capacity of original M1 magazines, and still more than the M2's stendos.
Anonymous No.64223455 >>64223463
>>64223419
How about a 10 inch bore shooting 110 grain projectiles at 70 fps? Think of how efficiently you could stack the cartridges when they're like sheets of paper.
Anonymous No.64223457 >>64223482
>>64220154 (OP)
>The M1 carbine was kind of mediocre. It just doesn't have any stopping power.
yawn
Anonymous No.64223463
>>64223431
I said very roughly. .357 Magnum from a rifle barrel can actually pretty easily overshadow .30 Carbine, even.
The point is more that .30 Carbine isn't weak, given you use it within its intended envelope.

>>64223455
How... how would that even look?
Anonymous No.64223482
>>64223457
sound made by someone shot by the M1
Anonymous No.64223593 >>64223704
>>64220154 (OP)
It's a lightweight weapon designed for use by rear-line personnel and paratroopers. I'd say it worked damned well.
Anonymous No.64223704
>>64223593
>designed for
much different to how it was used
Anonymous No.64223742 >>64223889 >>64224344
>>64223405
>7.62 autism
Actually the correct decision. 7.62x51mm is a PERFECT machine gun and sniper rifle round, and decent general issue round. The .280 was just piss weak 7.62x51mm, and would have delayed 5.56mm adoption.
Anonymous No.64223866
>>64220154 (OP)
Friend of my dad's killed about 50 bears with one. Mostly brown bears. Shot placement
Add in a bit of modern projectile design and you could have a projectile pretty effective against bipeds. That and improve the magazines for full auto feeding
Very handy little carbine, nice and light like the vz58
Anonymous No.64223889
>>64223742
7.62mm NATO is indeed a perfect machinegun cartridge, just not ideal for an infantry rifle. Things worked out though, 5.56mm NATO is the perfect infantry rifle cartridge, better than .270 British could ever hope to be.
Anonymous No.64224037 >>64224040
>>64223436
Terrible mp40/akms style folding stock
People who came up withit and approved it for production with deserve an olympic pool of piss on his grave
Anonymous No.64224040
>>64224037
edit
*their graves
Anonymous No.64224344
>>64223405
>The EM2 really isn't as good as you think that it is (and .270/.280 certainly isn't either). Churchill was right to pick the FAL instead.

.280 Brit FALs were on the table.

>>64223742
>significant barrel life gains
>significant ballistic coefficient gains
>Korea hordes and Nam bore out the folly of M-14 & .308 on capacity grounds alone