Thread 64230797

why did frogs gave up FAMAS for g*rms military industry

>>64230797 (OP)
>nooooo my overpriced and not even that reliable rifle that messes up NATO standardization noooooo

>>64230797 (OP)
French "people" are retarded
Just look around their capital and it will answer all your questions
These are not a serious people

>>64230797 (OP)
All performance concerns aside, logistics is *massively* important, and having a shared supply chain and full parts commonality goes a long way

>>64230797 (OP)
Because the factory that made them closed before you were born, and in the subsequent 24 years, all active rifles have been kept going be cannibalizing parts off of old ones. It couldn't last forever.

>>64230920
That's retarded

>>64232270
Welcome to French firearms manufacturing would you like a complementary tube loaded rifle with no safety

>>64232270
It's French!

>>64232270
So is basically everything the French military does.
If it wasn't for their extremely based nuclear power policy the French wouldn't have any redeeming qualities outside entertainment/food.

>>64232270
When the Cold War ended there was way too many armaments would last for years. And the French were shutting down their institutions and parastatals since even they had swallowed some of the venture-capital-owned private startup US bootstrap Thatcherism economy gobbledygook that was well established by the eighties. Those old factories were extremely old and dependent on nationalism.

The French military has begun phasing out the FAMAS (Fusil d'Assaut de la Manufacture d'Armes de Saint-Étienne) as its standard service rifle, a process that started around 2017 with the adoption of the Heckler & Koch HK416F. Several factors contributed to this decision after decades of service:
Obsolescence and Modernization Needs: While the FAMAS was innovative for its time with its bullpup design, enabling a compact rifle with a full-length barrel, modern warfare demands more. Newer rifles offer better modularity, allowing for easier attachment of accessories like optics, lights, and laser designators. The FAMAS's design, particularly the older F1 variants, had limited capability for such upgrades, hindering soldier effectiveness in contemporary combat scenarios.
Ammunition Compatibility Issues:The original FAMAS F1 was designed to function optimally with steel-cased ammunition. While later versions (G2) could use NATO-standard brass-cased ammunition, there were lingering concerns about over-pressure and potential malfunctions when using foreign-produced or certain types of brass-cased ammunition. This limitation created logistical complexities and safety concerns.
Ergonomics and User Feedback: Some users found the FAMAS to be less ergonomic compared to more modern rifle designs. The bullpup configuration can place the ejection port close to the shooter's head, and some found the controls less intuitive or harder to manipulate than those on conventional rifles. The HK416F, for example, is praised for its improved ergonomics and ease of use.

>>64232488
Maintenance and Reliability:While the FAMAS was generally reliable, modern replacements often offer simpler disassembly and maintenance procedures, reducing the time and effort required for cleaning and field repairs.
Decline of Domestic Arms Manufacturing:The factory that produced the FAMAS, Manufacture d'armes de Saint-Étienne (MAS), closed down in 2002. This meant that France no longer had a domestic manufacturing capability for its primary service rifle, making it difficult and costly to develop and produce a successor in-house. This led to the procurement of the HK416F, manufactured by Heckler & Koch France SAS, a subsidiary that allows France to award the contract to a company with a French presence, creating jobs and revenue in France.
Desire for NATO Standardization:While France was not a member of NATO for much of the FAMAS's service life (rejoining in 2009), aligning with NATO standards for ammunition and equipment is a strategic advantage. The HK416F uses standard NATO ammunition and magazines, improving interoperability with allied forces.

>>64230797 (OP)
>40+ yo guns started to wear out
>proprietary magazine
>unreliable with most 5.56 ammunition
>no NATO standard rail system
Most of these issues were fixed with the latest pattern (a few thousand rifles were converted to it) but when it came out the French had already decided to drop the FAMAS.

>>64233343
Wow that looks like fucking shit piss

>>64233432
I think it looks ok for a bullpup. It also had some decent upgrades like a new chamber so it can support brass cased ammunition (the original FAMAS can only handle steel cased ammo), a new barrel so it can fire NATO-standard M855 62gr bullets (both of these upgrades are also on the French Navy G2 model) and Picatinny rails.
The only thing they kept from the original FAMAS was the proprietary 25 round magazine. This was mostly for logistics reasons. The Navy on the other hand didn't care so the G2 takes NATO standard AR15 mags.

France is the originak dei nation.
It was cool to prop up Morrocans there at the expense of actual French men before anyone did that.
Where wealthy muslims had slut girlfriends forever.
Where they outlawed paternity tests on the behalf of men, to intentionaly cuck men to raising any child their wife is pregnant with.
Where they outlawed census info on population demographics when it was clear it was majority non-french.

It is not to be taken seriously.

The ones in stock are ancient and MAS is no longer capable of producing their own small arms, sadly. Le clarion dois dors maintenant.

>>64232295
>Welcome to French firearms manufacturing
No, that's French government bureaucracy and Parliamentary infighting. The French were headed toward adopting pic related in a rim-less small-bore cartridge before Boulanger fucked everything up just to stick a feather in his cap.

>>64230884
>Just look around their capital
To be fair, everyone in France hates Paris and parisians

>>64230797 (OP)
Worse gun in CS:Source

>>64232270
Too much paperwork to manufacture firearms in France. Even to sell them it's retarded :
It's mandatory to pass a diploma I think it takes 2 or 3 years, annual inspection, annual medical exam, age limit (70 yo I think), that's just to scrape the surface and it applies to every business that sells B (semi auto) category firearms, there are some other requirements to sell A (automatic, military and police stuff) category firearms and goods (gas masks are A)
For manufacturing you have to treat every part like it's a fucking nuclear core so it's not profitable to manufacture firearms in France, they are all made in Turkey and Czech Republic now.

>>64232488
>>64232491
this is a humans only board, slopbot

>>64232270
Keeping an unprofitable production line running is more expensive than just buying a superior product.
Obviously there's benefits to keeping production in your country, but for something as readily available as a rifle the strategic implications just aren't as grand.

>>64235712
counterpoint: subsidizing production costs society less than the loss of autonomy and technical skills

French here. Several reasons, here are the main ones :
>old design from the 70s limited the possibility to mount optics and accessories
>no left-handed option
>proprietary magazine which complicates logistics when operating with foreign NATO armies
>original manufacturer closed decades ago and less and less spare parts were available
>less reliable than the HK416 in adverse environments
>no other French manufacturer currently capable of manufacturing a new service rifle for industrial and economic reasons

In short, we've become a shithole.

>>64235743
Subsidizing national production is forbidden in the EU since EU regulations state that all member states must be treated equally

>>64230797 (OP)
Too stingy
They could have had verney carron develop and produce one (at greater price and with more waiting time)
They could have set up a new factory and license produce one of tons of european service rifles
They could have set up a new company well in advance and have it develop a new rifle
All of that would have cost more than just order HK, a company well set up to produce volume at competitive prices. So they didn't. And in the end, it doesn't really matter much. They survived 20 years without any new rifles whatsoever, they will survive having their rifles be produced a grand 60km from the french border in a state that is not only their ally, but now suckling at the teat of the french nuclear umbrella.

>>64235783
Mon ami, je ne vois aucun dedans ta liste que dit <>.

Whatever the Frogçais word for outsourcing or offshoring is, that's a problem tous les pays Blancs have to deal with.

>>64235783
>we've become a shithole.
seek help. France is paradise compared to 90% of places in the world

>>64235824
Maybe waiting is currently bit a good idea. Thats why germany also bought patria en masse instead of deciding on/waiting for another design.
>>64234904
Better than the ancient picture that purposefully had the dates cropped. I dislike AI but I hate human slopbits.

>>64232270
It's not an unusual move. The UK and the US also shut down their state small arms industries. It's an expensive thing to keep running if you're not at war. Everybody buys from FN/HK/Sig/Colt/etc. now.

>>64236311
>Maybe waiting is currently bit a good idea.
The 416 was ordered in 2016, almost ten years ago.

>>64235783
Why doesn’t any engineering company out there put a bid in then?

>>64236932
I'd assume because the process of doing so is so fucking insane and arduous and you'd be up against the corrupt MIC juggernauts of HK and FN who would probably rig the bidding process anyways, assuming you don't lose by default due to economies of scale.

>>64230797 (OP)
That news article first released in 2013 and it keeps releasing. Either it's made-up or it's being used as internal propaganda.

>>64236932
>Why doesn’t any engineering company out there put a bid in then?
There are no companies with the know-how and/or workers.
PGM Précision has good designs and machining but they don't do automatic firearms. Verney Carron Defense/ Lebel have close to zero knowledge about making a modern semi auto. The best they can do is a basic bitch AR from foreign parts.
France has good metallurgy but no barrel-makers. Great CAD/CAM and aerospace-grade manufacturing, but no one that can translate that into a firearm design. The last gun engineers are busy making medium and heavy guns like ground based, aircraft, and naval automatic guns.

Not to mention France is broke, and restarting a firearms industry takes tremendous amounts of money. Double-digit millions. When you don't have a domestic market, the only way to recoup that money is to sell to foreign governments, and that's where they'd lose to bigger players.

Also their government just collapsed again.

>>64238029
Is this good or bad

>>64238760
Depends on who you ask. Bayrou's big deal was a bunch of austerity measures because our economy and national debt's outlook is utterly fucked and we can't brute force things by spending our way out of it like America can. But people will riot against literally anything that lowers their QoL, which his plans would've. Really just have to see how bad it gets before throwing around 'I-told-you-so,' I guess.

>>64238774
Are you any closer to mass deportations?

>>64230797 (OP)
it was antisemitic

>>64235783
is it true that your woman where white and black striped shirts, berets, smoke all the time, and are easy whores who do foot stuff?

>>64239337
they're only easy whores to bougnoules and negros

>>64238029
>Not to mention France is broke
They could buy PSA AR-15s; they just need to wait for the black Friday deals.

>>64230797 (OP)
Because their military small arms industry was nuked year before the FAMAS was due for replacement
>>64236540
The difference is that the US still relies on domestic manufacturers to design or at least produce its small arms in-house. Also, it's not like the US commercial arms industry can't pivot toward wartime production if needed. Every other company in the US produces/can produce milspec ARs and there are several different US manufacturers that produce things like the M240, M2, Mk19, etc. under license for both domestic and foreign military contracts.

>>64239813
>they're only easy whores to bougnoules and negros
idk what a bougnoules is but if as an American if I cover my face in shoe polish will a cute french girl fuck me?

>>64238987
Why ask a question, when the answer is already known?

>>64238029
What about Manurhin

>>64230797 (OP)
FAMAS sucks thats why

>>64242193
Meme company
Meme products

>>64245368
Still though

>>64230797 (OP)
Several reasons
>bullpups are terrible
>the FAMAS was particularly bad in many ways
>the FAMAS was woefully out of date
>France had not produced a single FAMAS since the 1980s and did not even have the capability to service/maintain the rifles domestically
>France destroyed its entire MIC, intentionally, so there was no valid competitor that provided similar performance
hope that clears things up

Because Sarkozy was a faggot and Hollande a retard

>>64242193
Manurhin/Chappuis is too small to tool up everything you need to make a service rifle. If I'm not mistaken they're in bed with Beretta, who'd rather try to offer their own products as off the shelf service rifles.

Except Beretta military rifles are ass, and if you think the NARP will be better than the MCX, you're a dumb fuck.

France is bankrupt.

They're just shuffling money around to hide it. Much like someone who pays their bills by credit card and then pays that credit cards bill with another credit card.

>>64238760
France's problem is real fucking easy: socialists
They see France is broke, and that this is killing the working class, but they refuse to give up on spendy socialist programs that provide no value to society, and they refuse to accept that immigration is a problem.
They want to "tax the rich" and "tax companies", as if French taxes weren't high enough already. You can't expect to prop up an economy by taxing companies so high they'll just fuck off and leave, or take it out on wages, which are already far behind inflation. High taxation and slow bureaucracy ( a very French thing) stifles entrepreneurship. It's really not that hard.

France is a perfect example of what Democrats will do to the US. At least US Democrats aren't attached to 50 years of socialism that you can't get rid of, turning a sizeable proportion of your voter base into a state of assisted living.

>>64247710
>France destroyed its entire MIC
That's objectively untrue.
Small arms industry =/= entire MIC

See: Nexter/KNDS, DCNS, Thales, Safran, Airbus defense, Arquus, Dassault..

>>64248150
Half of these aren't fully French
If they were, they'd also be bankrupt

>>64232270
>>64230920
Should I Invest in CS2 FAMAS skins?

>>64233343
>la creaturex de NAT'O
sacre bleu

>>64248145
sounds like it would work if you added nationalism.

>>64249193
Yeah

>>64239935
>The difference is that the US still relies on domestic manufacturers
good point, but I remember reading that the French took into consideration that the H&K plant to manufacture the 416 was right next to the Rhine (which is part of the natural border between France and Germany).
its a small detail but that turned in favor of choosing H&K.

>>64233714
ESL detected

>>64250912
>the H&K plant to manufacture the 416 was right next to the Rhine
I don't know of such a plant. HK headquarters, which is the only plant in germany to my knowledge, is 60km from the rhine and across the black forest.

>>64250937
must be that one then. when you look at the map it's really close to Strasbourg, the biggest city in eastern France. 60kms is nothing.

>>64233714
These

>>64230884
?
Literally the best designed city in the history of city