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Thread 64242378

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Anonymous No.64242378 >>64242399 >>64242422 >>64242435 >>64242443 >>64242450 >>64242544 >>64242627 >>64242640 >>64242656 >>64243271 >>64245473 >>64246201 >>64246222 >>64246243 >>64246283 >>64248775 >>64248779 >>64248786 >>64248984 >>64248991 >>64249467 >>64249713 >>64250384 >>64252227 >>64253755 >>64258145 >>64258226 >>64258573 >>64261036 >>64263418 >>64263449 >>64263749 >>64264249
What is the most important lesson of Urban Warfare?
Anonymous No.64242399 >>64242775 >>64242893 >>64249033 >>64249473 >>64263449
>>64242378 (OP)
That the most effective way of waging it is to physically remove the city so that way you no longer have to fight urban warfare.
Anonymous No.64242422 >>64242456 >>64242893
>>64242378 (OP)
>offence
Avoid it. If not possible flatten everything with artillery and clear rooms with machine gun fire and grenades.
>defense
Tunnels are necessary and every pile of rubble is a bunker if you want it to be.
Anonymous No.64242435
>>64242378 (OP)
Just go past it like in iraq
Anonymous No.64242443
>>64242378 (OP)
Send in countless waves of mercenary/prisoner/conscripts meat waves until enemy runs out supplies
Anonymous No.64242450 >>64242893
>>64242378 (OP)
"Don't"
Anonymous No.64242453
as long as both sides have fun, thats all that matters
Anonymous No.64242456 >>64242567
>>64242422
It's not just tunnels, it's about mouseholes covered by furniture so you can reinfiltrate terrain they thought they cleared
Anonymous No.64242544
>>64242378 (OP)

Avoid it like the plague
Anonymous No.64242567
>>64242456
>it's about mouseholes covered by furniture so you can reinfiltrate terrain they thought they cleared
What part of "every pile of rubble is a bunker if you want it to be" do you not understand?
Anonymous No.64242627 >>64263607
>>64242378 (OP)
>What is the most important lesson of Urban Warfare?
The foolish man will say that "avoid it". The wise man will say that "it's unavoidable".
Anonymous No.64242640
>>64242378 (OP)
It is hard to get ambulances up to the third storey of a half collapsed factory you need medical evac logistics
Anonymous No.64242656 >>64242670 >>64242678 >>64242760 >>64242985 >>64246100 >>64248606 >>64248987 >>64249867 >>64252151
>>64242378 (OP)
urban means city
Anonymous No.64242670
>>64242656
Everyone else can shut up, this guy got it.
Anonymous No.64242678
>>64242656
...shit, I've been doing urban warfare wrong this whole time. Thanks for the correction, anon.
Anonymous No.64242760 >>64242862 >>64249867
>>64242656
What about Karl urban?
Anonymous No.64242775
>>64242399
/thread
Anonymous No.64242843
Get rid of buildings asap.
Anonymous No.64242862 >>64245237
>>64242760
Incendiary
Anonymous No.64242893 >>64242990 >>64245759 >>64263486
>>64242399
>>64242422
The problem of Stalingrad was that the artillery created all the easily defensible rubble. If nukes are off the table
>>64242450
has the best idea of it.
Anonymous No.64242985
>>64242656
No, wait! Hold on here, what?
Anonymous No.64242990
>>64242893
Beat me too it, Wehrmacht armored warfare would've worked way better with clear streets
Anonymous No.64243248 >>64243432
Stalingrad was a hellish city, unable to be completely surrounded due to the large river, and with fresh divisions constantly being sent in from the opposite bank.
The German army was unable to deal with the Red Army's armored units, which were waiting for an opportunity to attack on the north and south sides of the city, let alone the opposite bank.
Anonymous No.64243271
>>64242378 (OP)
Just go past it and leave a pinning force, and/or drown it in incendiaries without blowing the buildings into rubble.
Anonymous No.64243432
>>64243248
Despite that they almost took the entire thing, somehow.
Anonymous No.64245237
>>64242862
*Hotshot
Anonymous No.64245411 >>64249038
Y'all don't know shit about Stalingrad. Educate yourselves.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNSNgGzaledi9jQeOzCUtBP2pxYdCYiXX
Anonymous No.64245473
>>64242378 (OP)
Don't do it. Just shell/starve them out.
Anonymous No.64245544 >>64248833
Throw corpses and spread a plague amongst the defenders.
Anonymous No.64245759 >>64248962
>>64242893
There would have been even more easily defended positions if they hadn't. The strongholds in Stalingrad weren't piles of rubble they were intact buildings like "Pavlov's House" .
Anonymous No.64246100
>>64242656
Urban warfare big city editon.
Anonymous No.64246201
>>64242378 (OP)
Don't. There's a long, long list of better things you could do instead. Bake a souffle, play some scrabble, pen a cringy erotic fanfic of you and the enemy leader, accidentally send it to him, receive a very strange message in response that's simultaneously spine chilling and erotic. Literally do anything besides attack the city
Anonymous No.64246222
>>64242378 (OP)
Do not do urban warfare. Either siege the city or level it.
Anonymous No.64246243
>>64242378 (OP)
If the city is in your way, level it. If you can go around it, do so.
Anonymous No.64246283
>>64242378 (OP)
Just bomb it till there's no city. No city no problem.
Anonymous No.64248606
>>64242656
NO.FUCKING.WAY!
Anonymous No.64248775
>>64242378 (OP)
>What is the most important lesson of Urban Warfare?
Ποτέ μην βασίζεσαι στους Φράγκους
Anonymous No.64248779
>>64242378 (OP)
Level bomb everything from a position of vastly superior economic might and don’t engage in urban warfare?
Anonymous No.64248786
>>64242378 (OP)
Kill them all.
Anonymous No.64248833
>>64245544
True Mongol warrior
Anonymous No.64248962 >>64248964 >>64249000
>>64245759
Generally speaking, when armies try and take a city it's to preserve it for its infrastructure, industry and logistics as much as possible for their own future use. Even then there are industrial facilities and compounds that easily get turned into infantry-dominated fortresses once they get bombed to ruins
>germans bomb russian steel and motor factories into smithereens
>the twisted machinery and broken I beams make it impenetrable for tanks and provide perfect cover for soviet infantry defenders
Anonymous No.64248964 >>64250219
>>64248962
>soviet infantry platoon holds up in a solid concrete grain elevator which are found in basically any city with a port, canal or harbour
>end up holding off an entire panzer division and repel numerous frontal infantry assaults
>germans even try to directly shell it with 88 flak guns, tank fire, artillery barrages and direct hits from stuka dive bombers and they only make a couple holes
>something like 50 russians end up stalling the advance of a couple thousand german troops
Anonymous No.64248984
>>64242378 (OP)
Don't do it.
Anonymous No.64248987
>>64242656
mono means one
and rail means rail.
Anonymous No.64248991
>>64242378 (OP)
Make sure you understand your own capabilities.
Anonymous No.64248994
"Surely it will work this time" is not a viable tactic.
Anonymous No.64249000
>>64248962
Anon the intact factory would have been impenetrable for tanks as well.
Anonymous No.64249033 >>64250447
>>64242399
No, you want to seize control of the utilities. Rubble provides cover, but if you remove their running water, the enemy dessicates in three days.
Anonymous No.64249038
>>64245411
that guy has severe, terminal autism
Anonymous No.64249039
Just treat every city like Leningrad
Anonymous No.64249051 >>64249488
Yep, Alleppo went the same way. They basicly leveled most of Syria's largest city because it was held by rebels that were too challenging to face on the ground. The rebels thought they owned the biggest most important part of the nation and dug in.
So they dropped barrel bombs and used similar tactics the rebels couldn't fight back against. Eventualy bringing in the Russian air force to keep killing everyone in a manner guys with guns holding buildings couldn't do anything against.

So yes it appears the modern consensus to a city being too hard to take is to just level it.
Anonymous No.64249467
>>64242378 (OP)
>most important lesson of Urban Warfare
Don't.
Anonymous No.64249473
>>64242399
Yuri, yuo have earned a extra ration of vodka.
Anonymous No.64249488 >>64249597 >>64263525
>>64249051
You forgot the poison gas part. And, don't pussy out about it like Assmad did. Use fucktons of the really nuerotoxic shit.
Anonymous No.64249593
Use Chemical weapons on population centers.
Anonymous No.64249597
>>64249488
didn't even see your comment. You're SPOT ON
Anonymous No.64249713
>>64242378 (OP)
Do not engage in it when General Chuikov is your opponent.
>Despite myths never engaged in meatwave tactics
>Could have set up his post on the East of the Volga, instead set it up on the frontlines in sniper and mortar range
>Made sure every man was properly clothed, fed and sheltered.
>Universally loved by enlisted
>Literally too angry to lose the foothold on the slim Western sliver of the city
Anonymous No.64249867 >>64249909
>>64242656
>>64242760
Then why the heck isn't the singer named "Keith Rural"?
Anonymous No.64249909 >>64249936 >>64249976
>>64249867
because he was born in a place considered urban in the land of flightless birds, which amounts to a shack or two and an outhouse
Anonymous No.64249936
>>64249909
they only got the outhouse cause a cousin is in the planing council
Anonymous No.64249976 >>64250086
>>64249909
Australians being into American country music is one of those oddities to me like how old Germans were really into Native Americans.
Anonymous No.64250086
>>64249976
They've got a big rural agricultural sector and a quasi-cowboy history, so it tracks really.
Anonymous No.64250219
>>64248964
Funny how that massive armature-concrete building dosent even look like a medieval fortres at all
Anonymous No.64250384
>>64242378 (OP)
Cut the pie < frag out
Anonymous No.64250447
>>64249033
That's only if they dont have any supply lines going into the city bringing in potable water, and none stockpiled.
Anonymous No.64252151
>>64242656
Very good.
Anonymous No.64252227
>>64242378 (OP)
Lots of incendiary weapons.
Anonymous No.64252542 >>64253234 >>64253279
1. use the cover of war to unload your prisons into the front line, saving you the trouble of housing criminals
2. use artillery when they're done (or during, who cares)
Anonymous No.64253234
>>64252542
most societies have figured out how to use prisoners for labor thoughbeit
Anonymous No.64253279 >>64253955
>>64252542
I already used up all my prisoners clearing minefields...
Anonymous No.64253755
>>64242378 (OP)
level everything to the ground
Anonymous No.64253759
Anonymous No.64253955
>>64253279
You fool!
I bet you drink all your liquid the moment you sit on the table at once, so you have nothing to drink while eating.
Anonymous No.64257936
Fry the brain
Anonymous No.64258145
>>64242378 (OP)
>If at all possible ... DON'T
There you go OP.
Anonymous No.64258226
>>64242378 (OP)
use nades
Anonymous No.64258573
>>64242378 (OP)
Grenade into every room or cellar before you go in or want to walk away from it without checking it, grenades do room clearing for you.
Anonymous No.64261036
>>64242378 (OP)
>What is the most important lesson of Urban Warfare?

Stalingrad and Leningrad made Berlin easier.

Realistically at the time nobody had weapons to fight in urban warfare effectively. The Germans still had like two MP40's a squad most of the time. 1941 and onward was a stalemate in two major cities. Urban Warfare was required to advance, as almost every major city in Europe was literally a crossroad. But Urban warfare was also unavoidable because it offered the only shelter during the winter. The weapons of urban warfare spilled over to trench warfare, because (SURPRISE) both the Germans and Soviets used trenches in the eastern front. Whoever won urban warfare effectively took control of the whole distribution of the territory.

War in WW2 quickly became mechanized, and so cities were required to be supply points for vehicles in order to advance. No city taken, no advancing the line. If the city can't be taken then it was destroyed. Besides that, Urban Warfare is unavoidable because strategic objectives are now located in cites.
Anonymous No.64263418
>>64242378 (OP)
>What is the most important lesson of Urban Warfare?

There is no urban warfare is you first destroy the urban areas.
Anonymous No.64263449
>>64242378 (OP)
>either don't shell, or level & burn everything
>leave a humanitarian corridor open, then have a free fire zone
>rat hole through walls up streets and/or sewers
>if you can smoke and incendiary, do so rather than kick doors
>pre-ventilate upper floors from below, especially corners of rooms being breached
>alternately: just starve the place out per >>64242399 Aleppo/Gaza style
Anonymous No.64263486
>>64242893
And planes. What the Germans ought've done is plaster the tallest buildings only with precise artillery missions, and deploy engineers to level structures progressively behind their line of advance to consolidate & ratchet fortified forward positions. The goal would be the creation of artillery blinds with direct fire on the ferry logistics along the coast— leave the center exposed, main effort is the coastline and consolidating gains. A slower tempo once that was achieved to have faster circulation of troops for rest and recuperation, and reinforce the allied troops to the North and South as required.
Anonymous No.64263525 >>64266030
>>64249488
I still think that was an ISIS or rebel false flag. If Assad were willing to use Sarin, he would have comitted to it harder and targeted it more accurately at enemy forces.
Anonymous No.64263607
>>64242627
Bypassing strong points is viable upto a point.
Anonymous No.64263749 >>64264554
>>64242378 (OP)
>Assuming no major rivers going through the city:
Build a wall around it and then siege it. If you have air superiority and/or accurate artillery, then destroy any sanitation centers. Anything that comes out, shoot it.
I don't care if the wall outside of the city is three feet high and made of wooden 2x4s, the idea is to psychologically instill the fear that the people you are trying to siege can not leave.
DO NOT GO INSIDE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!
DO NOT GO INSIDE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!
DO NOT GO INSIDE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!
>Assuming a major river goes right through the city:
There is no way to win militarily. Period. Best you can do is rapidly dam the river upstream from the city, and then shoot anything coming towards the dam. After the riverbed has dried up enough, repeat the above riverless city strategy. If you can't dry up the riverbed then like I said, there is no way to win militarily.
Anonymous No.64264249
>>64242378 (OP)
Try building a giant wooden horse to hide inside and hope they bring it inside their walls.
Anonymous No.64264554
>>64263749
>If you can't dry up the riverbed then like I said, there is no way to win militarily
What retardation is this? Control the river and it becomes a nonissue. If you can't gain control of the river, you were never going to be able to control the city but you don't have to go full autismo and dam the thing.
Anonymous No.64266030
>>64263525
It was a russian operation, and they used government helicopters. Fuck off and go use the google for a few minutes.