Thread 64252966

One shot on the neck, and you are dead.

How come bullet proof vests don't also cover your neck?

>>64252966 (OP)
Mobility. Same reason they don't cover your intestines. Also the interceptor system employed a neck protector, and you can get neck protectors separately from some companies

>>64252985
>wrong pic

>why are vests vests instead of tanks
tanks are big and heavy and expensive and use a lot of fuel

>>64252966 (OP)
You will notice that your chest is much larger than your neck and so is more likely to be hit

>>64252966 (OP)
Center mass shots are standard training. That's why I train head shots

>>64253007
>head shots
>not groin
It's like you don't know the meaning of extreme prejudice.

>>64253007
>That's why I train head shots
Center mass too right? If you need to reach out to longer ranges, aiming for center mass would be a higher chance of a hit. Within close range it's cool

>>64252966 (OP)
>why protect the neck if your head is exposed
>why protect the head if your brachial/femoral arteries are exposed
Your chest is the most likely part of you to be hit, while also being the easiest to armor without interfering with freedom of motion, and containing most of your vital organs.

Body armor exists to increase your chances of survival in a dynamic combat situation, not provide 100% perfect defense. It is a trade-off between comfort/convenience and protection. Ultimately, if you're a stationary target being aimed at by a competent sniper with a high power rifle, you're going to die unless you're literally wearing full-body power armor like a Space Marine or Iron Man, and that's hardly practical for day to day use.

>>64253011
Wrong head

>>64253007
>training head shots
NGMI

>>64253007
>>64253011
>Play Tarkov
>Use Shotgun and hobo-tier kit
>Bait tryhard in full kit into rushing a room while in cover that means I can only see their lower body but I can't be seen at all
>Oops your armor doesn't cover your legs, too bad your femoral artery is there :^)
(This is ignoring that it's Tarkov so there is a 1 in 3 chance it's someone with wallhax and they just shoot me before even entering the room)

>>64252966 (OP)
Neck isn't protected for mobility reasons.

Armor also doesn't protect your pelvis, so pro-tip larpers: if you're in an engagement and worried about the opposition using armor, shoot them in the dick (pelvis shots will immobolize them significantly if not completely)

But the point of using armor is to increase your chances of making it through encounters. You have less vulnerable area on your body.

>>64253196
Think again. Also, if you're worried about engaging armor you need to figure out how to deal with shields, too, and those have greatly superior coverage and usually come with a bonus 4-5 extra shooters behind them too.
Shields exist on a three way intersection of cost, coverage, and weight. Rule of thumb. If a plate can be hand carried and is full-body coverage it's most likely rated to M855A1, tops, unless you pissed off the wrong people and it's some boron carbide custom. If it's on wheels and wasn't made decades ago there's no piercing without M993 or above on your side.

>>64253214
I hope chinks make full lamellar armor a thing again even if it's shit to actually wear in the field because that shit is certified kino.
Chinkshills if you see this please pass that on, I will respect your nation more if you guys can bring back sick looking armors. You even have a perfect excuse for it over on the India front where your lads are beating them with sticks.

>>64252966 (OP)
They're bulletproof vests, not bulletproof turtlenecks

>>64253301
I bet they would if they could track Murray Neal, one of the two original guys behind Dragonskin, down to help them out. He financially went down the shitter in 2013 with Pinnacle Armor going bust, so maybe he could use the employment.
China, you know what to do.

>>64253007
What if you got a big fat stupid head like me and your head IS your center of mass?

>>64252988
Old enough that I was issued an interceptor. The neck bit was for shrapnel. Wouldn't stop a 30-06 head on. Probably fuck up its path a bit, but wouldn't stop it

>>64253391
If you've spent that much time reading, you should have developed some wicked psychic powers and you can just use them stop the bullets with your mind.

>>64253394
>I was issued an interceptor
Was it as bad as they say?

>>64253410
It sucked ass. Sweaty as fuck, held stank like no other, would bulge and pop out randomly (was in a mounted unit so frequently in an M1181). You could mount shit on the molle but it never felt right.
Hypothetically, plate carriers have less protection than interceptors. When plate carries became an option guys were fucking going out of their way to get them.

>>64253410
Should add. Didnt use the leg bits or the arm bits. Didnt even get issued those (1/1 weapons company), but even then it was ass. Had to wear the dickflap and neck protector. Chafing like a motherfucker and pointless bulging

>>64253418
>>64253420
I though it would just be heavy but that just sounds more shit. Interceptors do offer more protection than plate carriers (because it is practically full coverage of your whole body), but I can imagine how they'd ditch them immediately.

>>64253103
You better be 75+ feet away with a group like that, you self-taught.

>>64253103
>target is now Asian and your grouping needs to be the size of a dime

>>64252988
>wrong pic
Nah, it was on point.

>>64252966 (OP)
Boy have I got the product for you.

>>64253394
If we are referring to the recent incident, it appears that the bullet travelled up into his neck after deflecting off of an armor plate. A piece of kevlar probably would have caught it at that point, but it would be obvious he was wearing armor, if that wasn't a concern he would probably have had a ceramic plate which would most likely have stopped the round cold.

>>64253410
I bought one for larping, it feels like you're one of the beetle aliens from the 5th element with it on.

>>64255141
The issue is plate thickness. Steel covert plates are typically under 0.4" thick. Ceramics generally need to be thicker but weigh substantially less due to the necessary composite backer.
A 0.4" ceramic plate would have struggled against a .30-06 due to how thin the backer would have been. You need at least 0.56" to 0.6" going off high end B4C examples like the LTC 28791 or VS-PBZSA. That means a less covert solution.
I have a hunch Kirk was wearing an uncoated VelSys PULV titanium plate or something similar, hence the spall. This is monday quarterbacking, but he should have worn some PBZSAs in a slick carrier under a lightweight jacket.

>>64255167
Thin stand alone ceramics will probably be the new meta once the details of this come out, but they should have been already for contentious public speaking.

>>64252966 (OP)
They protect most of your important bits if they are sized and worn correctly. But my luck Id get shot in the face or dick and bleed out like a bitch.

>>64255480
The secret service has a boron carbide version of the PULV rated up to 7.62x39mm BZ API, but it has no known capability against higher-energy threats. It's alsp very restricted. There is an alll-PE ultralight version, too, but it will lose to M855 easily.
Many thin ceramics like the Hesco L211, L210, U211, etc fall apart when faced against larger calibers. Not one of those three is rated for 7.62x51 M80, the basic Level III threat. They have the ceramic strike face for steel penetrators but not enough fiberglass or PE backer for energy capture under 44mm BFD.
The less than overt "meta" is the VS-PBZSA, surpassed only by the unknown LTC plate that replaced it in 2023 as SOCOM's GEN-6 TSA/less-than-overt. This would be the direct successor to the LTC 28791.
For overt meta, the LTC 28570 is superb and could probably still be concealed under a sweater.

>>64253775
>M'BLI HYM HEM HEM
>HYM GUNGA HRIM

>>64253775
>ARTHUR, I BOUGHT A NEW ONE FROM THE CHINESE PEOPLE

>>64256455
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqBEMza8msw

I made this webm A bullet can't get through titanium 3d print armor. First thing everyone noticed that I didn't was the shrapnel to the neck.

I wanted to get K thoughts on how he was hit in the neck but his armor was also perturbed

I'm thinking he was not wearing traditional IIIa soft body armor, but I also don't think he was wearing AR500 plate.

I am still fairly confident his choice of armor killed him either by fragmentation or ricochet.

Are there any dumb armor products he could have been wearing thinking it would be low profile AND also stop a rifle round?

Also, if he went with no armor, would his chances or survival been higher with a chest hit vs a hit to the carotid?

>>64252966 (OP)
I too advocate for the return of gorgets.

>>64258732
Possibly velocity systems PULV titanium or PSTES steel plate. These are former SOCOM-issue for covert applications more than a decade ago. Super low profile, but completely uncoated so the spall is terrible. It's also possible he had the later, coated BVEL version but the spall coating was insufficient to capture everything.

>>64258732
where did he get hit? i don't see a hole in the shirt, just squirming after being fucking shot

>>64258861
Upper part of the plate, ricochet into neck. His shirt puffing out like it did suggests that perhaps spall coating shedded off the plate at low velocity, or very weak spalling.
Alternatively he had a ceramic and small pieces of the strike face ejected and hit his shirt while the projectile ricocheted up but that's less likely.

I'm moderately suspicious .30-06 M2AP was involved because the shooter knew in advance Kirk would be wearing armor. That would explain the lack of fragmentation as the steel penetrator would stay mostly intact in a ricochet.

>>64252988
My unit wore the vest and neck protector. The groin protector was issued to us but it stayed in our packs and never really got used. It was very uncomfortable and it put me off from buying body armor in my civilian life. This was the era where we were issued M16A4s and the vest made it so hard to use properly. I still love the A4, but I will never use it again with any kind of armor.

It's the reason I cringe when I see some larper thinking a helmet with a full face shield and shoulder armor and a bunch of other shit is ideal. They haven't been in a situation where their gear has slowed them down and stunk like hell and they have had to wear it 18 hours a day. Every morning you go to put it on and it just puts you in a shitty mood and that becomes the norm. Goddamn, I'm so glad I did 5 and got out.

>>64258732
Titanium plate looks right from video caps, it's very hard to give you odds on no armor, a fast round where the original impact seems to be could have poked a clean hole and left him relatively unharmed. Or it could have deflected off a bone and gone anywhere, likewise the chance of him being hit so critically by a deflection is probably low, but I don't think there are enough combat studies on steel plates to give definitive odds.

>>64258861
There is a mark that appears on his shirt near his collar bone after the shot

>>64259994
When a rifle round hits a titanium plate, it sparks. And .30-06 would go right through most titanium plates like the VelSys ULV.
If it was anything, it was probably a very low-profile steel plate like the Tencate 8075SA, or something similar.

>>64260188
NTA, but my assumption on the PULV / PSTES was only because of the form factor. The 8075SA is literally only 0.2" thick but no spall coating, so I think you're right on the money.
The 8075SA was discontinued a long time ago so it's probably something similar.
More details: https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/index.php?threads/rifle-plates-show-and-tell.1289/

>>64252966 (OP)
The real truth of the matter is that, unless (You)'re in a bulletproof glass box surrounded by armed trained bodyguards like The Pope, (You)'re fucked by anyone with a little intelligence and a little will to commit an assassination.
Think about it logically:
>Wearing body armor-Neck and/or headshot
>Wearing neck guard and helmet-Dickshot
>Standing behind a bulletproof glass wall-drone
>Electronic jammers-fiber optic wired drone
And even if (You) do live a secured life like The Pope, that shit costs a lot of money, something that greedy dumbassholes either don't have or don't want to or both.

>>64260188
You're probably right, I assumed this guy was more up to date that I was on what was available in titanium alloys at the high end.

>>64261142
yeah that's a PULV in the picture. Shit's like sixteen years old.

>>64252966 (OP)
Because your enemy will aim center mass.

>>64261154
Just his example of metal plate, but the velsys ulv titanium plates are III+ rated for 7.62 so it's not inconceivable they could bounce a 30.06 under the right circumstances and you wouldn't necessarily see sparks under a white t-shirt in bright daylight.

>>64252999
That's also where they'll be aiming.

>>64252966 (OP)
Because then it wouldn't be a vest, duh.

>>64257221
didn't medieval armor have that V-shape on the chest piece to prevent arrows from sliding up into the neck?
how come modern armor doesn't have that feature?

>>64261180
III+ is a bit high, they're 0.4" thick titanium alloy and nominally only rated for 7.62x39mm. They aren't rated to NIJ Level III either.

>>64261198
here's what i mean

>>64261198
They don't have much capacity to form ar500 and keep it cost competitive.

>>64261249
>They don't have much capacity to form ar500 and keep it cost competitive.
Not that Anon BUT I got a feeling that's going to change real fast...

>>64261249
making picrel would really be that expensive?

>>64261337
its really hard to manipulate, thats why its usable as armor, but maybe you could weld a ridge on it?

>>64261347
or at least fit a rig over it
it just seems so essential to me but then i'm just a civilian

>>64255167
You can literally see his nipples through his shirt.

>>64261347
Perhaps a bolted on piece

>>64252966 (OP)
>just aim for the neck bro, what are you gay or something?

>>64261350

They sell kevlar sleeves that are supposed to catch bullet spalling from steel plates. There's also build-up coatings that're supposed to do the same. Both only last a few hits before they shred, but you're supposed to have gotten behind hard cover long before that.

>>64261351

A swimmer cut plate of the right (wrong) size would be barely between the nipples IIRC. If he was indeed wearing armor, it was probably the smallest size of uncoated/base-coated swimmer plate because nu-rich cheapskate, and paid for it with his life.

tl;dr: Don't cheap out on lifesaving equipment, especially if you expect to use it.

>>64261350
Steel body armor is unserious. Manufacturers generally get approximately correct lots of abrasion resistant steel meant for dump trucks, cut it into plate shape and spray it with truck bed liner. They are for "cost conscious" preppers and police departments. I'm curious to know what actual world leaders are currently wearing in the way of armor but we probably won't know for 15 or 20 years, I bet it's not steel.

>>64261365
From the other thread because this needs to be put to rest.
Kirk was not shot in hard armor. He was not shot in the chest, upper chest, or any COM area. He was not wearing body armor.
>>64261398

>>64261414

And see my response in >>64261423 as well, which is more talking about the possible (shitty) plates for that particular silhouette than whether he was wearing them or not.

>>64261414
From stills there is a clear outline of a hard plate, and a picture of his shirt moved up past his chin, no matter how long you've looked at footage I disagree with your assessment.

>mods put up a sticky sweating bullets to avoid shitflinging
>they don't realize this board is autistic enough that it only cares about the act of the shooting itself

>>64261435
There's no clear outline of anything but a human body and as Kirk is falling away there is no outline of anything but a human body.
You're also going to have a very difficult time selling me that being shot at a downward angle is going to make a plate jump up violently.

And then, finally, the plate would he covering his sternum, yes, presumably where the shot would have had to hit. There is no damage to the shirt in any way.

No armor, didnt get hit in chest, the gushing neck wound was the p.o.i., end of story.

>>64261414
there's clearly a protruding rectangular object under his shirt. not sure why he chose to wear armor that covers only between his throat and nipples, but there's something there.

>>64261453

Could be an older wireless microphone control box/antenna rig, worn for compatibility with whatever weird old A/V gear the college setup used. Not sure why he'd have one under his shirt in such a strange spot, but weird ancient A/V shit is a thing at colleges.

>>64252966 (OP)
Being a sniper on a roof top is even more dump. Backdrop body against sky. Most combat mindset people would spot a shooter on top of a kill/roof easy all day long

>>64258732
Charlie wasn’t wearing any armor. There is other footage of him on that day dressed in the same clothes walking around greeting people. There is nothing to give the impression that he was ever wearing something under his shirt. Even as he was seated, in some stills you can see his nipple poking through his shirt. The bullet hit his neck directly.

>>64261447
lmao, lol even

>>64252988
i do not miss the iba

>>64261435
>From stills there is a clear outline of a hard plate
>>64261453
>there's clearly a protruding rectangular object under his shirt

>>64252985
Why don't you just increase your encumbrance load and wear heavier armor?

>>64261305
>rl shitposter got his thread hijacked by a memefaggot

The big people don't care when schoolkids get shot, but when its one of their own like this faggot or the CEO that got put down in the street suddenly its the end of the world all-hands-on-deck.

he was right about trannies, wrong about russia

>>64263764
>suddenly its the end of the world all-hands-on-deck.
They'll just spend more on guchi armor and make taxpayers pay for it.

>>64252966 (OP)
It's a bullet proof vest, not bullet proof muffler.

>>64252988
Updated for 2025.