Thread 64253304

When I look out of my office windows my eyes glaze over imagining what civil war would be like here. There has never been warfare anywhere near this dense and vertical. The sixth month siege of The Empire state building... The tank battle of Brooklyn bridge...The infinite snipers. The fucking hundreds of miles of tunnels. Shit gives me goosebumps. The horror and the beauty.

>>64253304 (OP)
All discussion of politics and current events goes on /pol/.

>>>/pol/

>>64253322
I'm not interested in politics at all. Hearing from any insane turbo autists that have dared to wargame this scenario is more of my angle.

>>64253304 (OP)
Could you even starve opposition out of a city like that?
Assuming a vast majority of civilians (90%+) have fucked off, i wonder if cutting the whole city off and waiting until the food runs out is viable.
If it is, I'd imagine it a preferrable option over trying to take it street by street.

>>64253348
Civil wars are politics
Wars in general are politics
Recent events are politics
Insane turbo autists are politics
Wargames are politics
Take it up with the jannies if you have a problem with this change in moderation.

>>64253364
yes when you use that framing virtually everything is politics, especially weapons.

>>64253304 (OP)
I was thinking back about this a couple months ago with a friend when we were walking around a plane museum and looking at the fighter jets. Unless everything is leveled like gaza, it would be endless guerilla attacks. Take los angeles for example, millions of places to hide or setup a FOB. We'd probably see something like sniper alley in bosnia.
This typa thinking is also what makes people shift from hypothetical to full-blown prepper, but I think realistically in this situation, you should have an easily concealable pistol, cash, and documents. And in your home, some food and water because the first thing to go will be power and supply lines.
As such, im hijacking this thread - what pistol are YOU gonna carry

>>64253304 (OP)
You're that autist that keeps making theeads about conbat in megacities. The answer is the same one you've always been given, no armed force would engage inside one. They would control the entrance/exits and simply atarve it out.

>>64253363
>cutting the whole city off
One of the most insane things about Manhattan is that it has 200+ years of tunnels on top of tunnels on tunnels, much of which are out of commission and literally forgotten like something out of Warhammer. Bums literally built a whole secret shanty town with markets and everything. Remember the Jews crawling out of grates? If you watch urban explorers, Any inconspicuous service door can lead you to the shadow realm. Itd be real hard to just lock a place like that place down.

https://youtu.be/tZnt4oJFaNw?si=kZQPVTH-XIjETGor

>>64253426
Ive never made this thread before. Not interested in fictional megacities, just NYC. I hope that autist you're talking about pops in though.

>>64253390
The main thing is insurgencies still need benefactors to fund and supply it. If you have the ability to cut them off from that stuff you can easily quash it. Developed countries aren’t like Afghanistan where a majority of the population are subsistence farmers and insurgencies like the Vietcong and Iraqis had outside support from the soviets and Iranians respectively.

>>64253304 (OP)
Am very familiar with the area.
It'll be just like exactly like Organized Crime and Drug Gangs go about it. Low level, small scale hits. Manhattan has jaw dropping numbers of cameras and Police/Security in certain areas.

>>64253304 (OP)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad

>>64253363
What's with this
>Blue areas are going to run out of food, Red areas are self sufficient
meme come from?

Japan, Saudi Arabia, Iceland, Singapore, South Korea import most of their food, they do not have nearly the amount of domestic food production to keep up with demand. Its tough, but the blue areas accounting for most of the country's GDP can just buy their food, supplies, and fuel from the world market.

Red areas won't have that luxury. How is Cletus going to run his 250k harvester with no fuel?

Of course it won't be clean cut battle lines along voting districts, its going to get messy. I just think red areas will definitely be in a rude awakening when their dollar generals/gas stations/hospitals stop receiving their supplies from the big cities. THAT is going to happen way before they have to worry about tanks and jets from the government.

>>64253453
Most people legitimately do not have a clue about how insane the logistics of supplying a single fucking Walmart is, let alone a city or state.

>>64253448
This reminds me of this video of azov clearing a 9 story commie bloc. Iirc It takes them like two whole days. The spetznas next door do the ol scooby doo switcheroo and skedaddle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81NN810DH60

>>64253304 (OP)

Large cities like New York would probably just degenerate into gang warfare with whatever light infantry equipment and vehicles they could loot from Fort Hamilton, fighting for control of transportation infrastructure like the LIRR’s rail yards and the ports so they can shake people for food and medicine (re. using starvation as a weapon). Think Mogadishu in the early 90s.

>>64253463
The babushka at 11:02 acts like she doesn't even give a FUCK she's in a literal warzone, hope she's still kicking.

>>64253304 (OP)
There's no reason to go in. Just siege it and bomb it.

>>64253472
Yeah, the old people trying to scrape by make me wanna cry man.

>>64253453
The bigger issue is that the vast majority of crops in the US are feed crops for livestock, like dent corn, sorghum and s@y. Even if the combines were running, I doubt American farmers know how to make tofu.
And don’t forget about your sterile Monsanto proprietary seeds.

>>64253478
Same. It's particularly awful because at least with kids someone will usually be taking care of them, old people just get abandoned a lot of times.

>>64253322
>>64253364
Imagine being a wannabe jannie.

>>64253475
>bomb it.
Yeah youd think that, but these aren't apartments in gaza. A single 600ft skycraper topples and its like gassing half the island with turbo lung cancer for a week, on top of the mass indiscriminate casualties. The responsible faction instantly loses the pr war.

>>64253491
I believe that anon is seething at jannies, not idolizing them. Sarcasm is difficult to understand, I know. You might not even notice that this very post has some sarcasm in it!

>>64253495
>The responsible faction instantly loses the pr war.
The main thing Israel’s shown is the PR war doesn’t actually matter.

>>64253545
No shit it doesn't when your number 1 supporter is the USA and the people you're trying to genocide are even less sympathetic than your average dunecoon is.

>>64253506
Yeah you're seething alright, I think everyone can notice that.

>>64253304 (OP)
The civil war for this city already occurred here and was lost (if you are white)

>>64253304 (OP)
It's never going to happen.
first and foremost because there will be no civil war. but even if it did by the time that the liberals are getting besieged in their mega city strongholds they would have already lost the war and a political settlement would be reached.
but it wouldn't even get to that because the rest of the world would be backing the liberals. if for no other reason that they don't take every chance they get to antagonize them.
unless the navy goes 100% conservative it can't stop other powers from interfering and supplying the liberals.
good luck trying to starve out the east or west coast mega cities while there is a chinese or european fleet off the coast keeping their supply lines open

>>64253304 (OP)

Who's fighting for control of New York in your fantasy OP?

Rival gangs warring for control of turf?
Urban peasant revolt against the elites who've oppressed them for generations?
MAGA Force come to relieve the besieged Trump Tower from the Radical Leftist scourge?
Upstate New Yorkers who've just had enough of the city slickers running everything?
Resurgent Confederate States, intent on taking long-awaited and bloody revenge for the destruction of Atlanta 160 years ago by laying waste to the economic crown jewel of the Northeast and massacring its inhabitants?
Lebensraum for New Jersey?

>>64253630
>first and foremost because there will be no civil war

Every single civil war in human history has been preceded by this statement

Make no mistake. It CAN happen here and it WILL if you (and American society as a whole) assume that it can't and just ignore the warning signs. The first and most important step to preventing it is to acknowledge that it's a possibility

>but even if it did by the time that the liberals are getting besieged in their mega city strongholds they would have already lost the war and a political settlement would be reached

A political solution wouldn't be possible by that point, it would just become an endless cycle of escalating violence that goes on for generations until the United States is permanently dismembered by treaty after 50-100 million deaths. Like how the 30 Years' War for so long that most of those fighting it had been born after it had started by the time it was finally ended by the Peace of Westphalia

>but it wouldn't even get to that because the rest of the world would be backing the liberals. if for no other reason that they don't take every chance they get to antagonize them

Like who? Who cares enough about American liberals that they would be willing to raise an army and involve themselves in a continent-spanning racial civil war to bail them out?

>unless the navy goes 100% conservative it can't stop other powers from interfering and supplying the liberals.
>what is piracy
>what is maritime insurance (hint: they jack up their rates for sailing into unsafe parts of the world)

>good luck trying to starve out the east or west coast mega cities while there is a chinese or european fleet off the coast keeping their supply lines open

Nigger, the world economy would go into freefall if the US collapsed into civil war. Europe literally couldn't afford to intervene and the Chinese would be just as inclined to turn around supply the right-wingers with heavy weaponry to ensure that as many Americans die as possible

>>64253460
Turns out dumbass country hicks are... dumb. A twist that will shock the audience.

There's not going to be a 'civil war'. It'll be time of troubles, years of lead and such. The powers that be do not want and will not tolerate the instability and lack of money from a civil war. The state will not tolerate a usurpation of the monopoly of power.

>>64253453
Atlantic is a shitty rag but I still liked the article that summarized the likelihood of a civil war as "Americans get irritable when they can't get as many strawberries in winter". Frankly the minute instability takes hold everyone outside of the most die-hard RETARDED woke faggots and RETARDED Qanon faggots will beg the authorities to come in and fix shit. And again, you think all those multi-billionaires are going to be happy with the complete collapse in revenue?

>>64253672
>Every single civil war in human history has been preceded by this statement.
Hyperbolic bullshit, it most certainly has not. These societies didn't go from peaceful with episodic moments of violence to just teeth gnashing screeching mass murder. It was either a process (To which we are at the very VERY VERY beginning) or it was an endless cycle that had been started variously centuries or millennia ago

Continuing -

>>64253438
Not always, take the troubles for example, that lasted a decade and the members eventually were absorbed into an army. Assuming it evolves into something larger than the occasional car bomb, then it'll likely be like the spanish civil war - I just wonder how would that kick off and end.

>>64253685
The closest you can come to a case of an 'unexpected' civil war that had a nominally first world country suddenly go apeshit and have a civil war is Spain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War#Background
Which had the civil conflict originating at least nearly 100 years ago and a military coup in the 1920s and a revolution a few years prior. It was unimaginably instable and nobody would have gone "We won't have a civil war".

That leaves us with an unending volume of banana republics with absolutely zero political stability to begin with, vaciliating between dictatorships and crony republics. Or flash in the pan moments like the Spartakists, or cases of war and revolution from an existing state in the midst of War (finland), or war and collaborators vs non collaborators (Italy in WW2).

Yugoslavia is hardly a suitable example when it was a not even 100 year old state deeply divided by geographical ethnic groups who spoke different languages, different religions, ect. Ukraine had a foreign invader propping up the rebels. It is not hubris to say the United States is more fucking stable than Mozambique and Tajikistan, and we're not going to suddenly overnight drop into a civil war. If one happens it is going to take decades upon decades of developments. And frankly given the more salient examples of Brazil, Argentina and Greece who went from Juntas back to democracy without third world gorilla tribal bloodletting?

Yeah, that's more of a prognosis of our situation than Rwanda, even if sometimes I think social media will be a radio rwanda in miniature for how histrionic and like teenage girls it makes Americans of all stripes.

>>64253672
>Every single civil war in human history has been preceded by this statement.
except for all the ones that where predicted. like the english, spanish(all of them) and the 30 years war to the extent you could call it one. heck even the american civil war was predicted the moment the south started to secede.
also the general standard of living is to high for enough people to risk it all right now.
>Like how the 30 Years' War
ended with a political settlement before the heartland of the belligerent parties was threatened.
>Like who?
like everyone around. just look at the 30 years war, or the english civil war or the spanish civil war. no one bothered to get involved in any of those. why would they get involved in a far more important one?
I also like to refer to the american civil war where despite the french not being able to afford it they bankrupt them selves intervening.
do you think that if the US devolved into a civil war the rest of the world wouldn't be able to work around that? the US produces nothing they need and they can't get elsewhere. at it wouldn't cost them anything, park your fleets of the US coast to guarantee commercial shipping and let the liberals pay for the aid nog in defunct US dollars or assets in the US but by selling their own assets in the intervening countries. even if those run out having a US indebted to you or a number of breakaway states indebted to you has value in and of it's self. just look at how the US used european debt and the Marshall plan to influence their behavior.

>>64253685
>Hyperbolic bullshit, it most certainly has not
>Vera, a poet and newspaper editor in her 50s, was convinced that war would never come to Bosnia. Even in 1991, the year before the war began, with the Yugoslav army shelling towns on Croatia’s Dalmatian coast, with the Yugoslav army besieging the eastern Croatian town of Vukovar, Sarajevans did not believe that war would come to their beautiful city nestled in the mountains. War in Bosnia? No way, said Vera. It was too mixed up: Muslims, Orthodox, Catholics, Jews, all living together and intermarried. Vera was Croat. Vera’s former husband was half Croat and half Jewish. Drago, a retired economist and bank director, was Serb. Upstairs in Vera’s apartment building lived a Jewish-Croatian Bosnian and his Muslim Bosnian wife and their mixed son. The whole building was like that.

Feel free to real the whole article nigger

https://theintercept.com/2020/10/25/bosnia-war-us-election-politics/

>>64253363
Pollute the water supply and you'll be able to turn it into an unlivable concrete desert in record time.

>>64253556
USA has generally sucked at supporting her allies though, with the biggest success story being the USSR while countless other allies have perished even when she's sacrificed blood to help.

>>64253709
>except for all the ones that where predicted.

SOME people predicted those conflicts, but a whole lot more didn't and were completely blindsided when the shooting started. Even the famous Roman Civil War escalated out of control because largely Pompey, Cato, and the rest of the Roman Senate thought that Caesar would chicken out if pressed hard enough and wound up pushing him into a position where he felt that war was the only way.

>also the general standard of living is to high for enough people to risk it all right now.

By your logic, no country should have a civil war EVER because standard of living always goes to shit when they start. It's always just easier to stay on your little farm and tend to your goats instead of fighting.

>ended with a political settlement before the heartland of the belligerent parties was threatened.

Except you know, the core of what is now Germany which was reduced to such complete ruin that even the Second World War failed to surpass that level of destruction.

>>64253679
Pretty sure democrats, liberal leftists they may be, are not quite as batshit as the Antifa types that domed Charlie the other day and then gloated about it. The US is in a state of breakdown of civil discourse, and sporadic outbreaks of violence will follow from it as the terminally online laymen among the left has clearly showed that they would rather kill people in broad daylight than be questioned, and now we have a precedent that gives the Trump administration plenty of reasons to crack down on them. They essentially turned every death-threat ever uttered on X or bluesky by these people into a, in the eyes of the government, potential domestic terrorist threat. It's a "caning of Charles Sumner" equivalent no doubt, but it will also stay at that level until the newer generations grow up and achieves a fundamental cultural change. Civil war ain't gonna happen.

>>64253733
>Civil war ain't gonna happen.
>immediately after calling it "a caning of Charles Sumner" equivalent

>>64253453
Literally nothing you posted is even tangentially related to what i wrote. I'm asking about modernizing siege tactics of isolation to an entire modern city. Not some directionbrained retardation.

>>64253727
some did, some didn't. saying no civil war was predicted is bogus just as saying they all where.
>By your logic, no country should have a civil war EVER because standard of living always goes to shit when they start
yes, standards of living goes to shit when the shooting starts, no shit sherlock. but most historical civil wars where fought by people that still struggled with food insecurity and cushy 14 hour workdays.
good luck getting enough people to sit in trenches to fight you civil war without first nuking the economy.
>Except you know, the core of what is now Germany which was reduced to such complete ruin that even the Second World War failed to surpass that level of destruction.
the point you made was that people wouldn't settle for a political deal before their 9wn heartland was in danger.
both the protestant north and Catholic south where mostly unmolested. with both sides supporters not even being touched.
the bit in the middle was ruined but they where never the people in charge of the sides.
as to their ruin, those numbers are from looking at parish records in the affected areas and comparing the population before and after the 30 years war. not taking into account the resettlement op people elsewhere.

>>64253733
>Pretty sure democrats, liberal leftists they may be, are not quite as batshit as the Antifa types that domed Charlie the other day and then gloated about it.
Well you might be surprised, there are some schizo Democrats who can really hyperventilate about Trump, but the thing that makes this different from civil wars in the past is that these are random killers. It's like deranged normies from hell. Somehow our society has generated these people and they're now attacking debate-me-bro streamers and "activists." There was a schizo that tried to kill Nick Fuentes and it was completely random, he just showed up at his house. What we've been getting are these stochastic and highly individual acts. Luigi also wasn't really a leftist. His views seem rather middle-of-the-road for an American.

>>64253304 (OP)
URBUS DELENDA EST
Every night I picture cities, walled off and burning, just to soothe myself to sleep.

>>64253322
>>64253453
>>64253460
>>64253479
>>64253495
>>64253630
>>64253682
>>64253733
Post your guns with timestamp or fuck off cityoid trash

>>64253986
OOOOOOOY VEEEEEEEEEEY

>>64253858
>Luigi also wasn't really a leftist.

They found Fascist literature among his personal effects

>>64253322
This is so autistic. Shut your dumb ass up. Oh boo hoo, conversations about firearms and war, with obvious political aspects surrounding them, naturally veer into politics often enough. Who would have thought?

>>64253986
Except if it doesnt happen in China as well, well I hope you saved enough cans of beans and bullets to fight the Chinese too.

>>64253428
>?si=kZQPVTH-XIjETGor
thank you mossad

>>64253322
Fuck off back to the Ukraine subreddit you goddamn tourist

>>64253986
Now post your s@y field and/or Monsanto contract.

>>64254946
Without mire details, statements like that are kinda useless. I've got both Das Kapital and Mein Kampf on my bookshelf. Doesn't mean I'm a commination.

>>64254946
So? I own copies of Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto, the Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist Papers. You couldn't tell which side I'm on from my library, just that I like to know my enemy.

>>64253439
this nigga saying hes "Familiar with the area" its fucking new york city you dweeb

>>64253453
You don’t have a clue but you wrote all of that horseshit. Fucking dork.

>>64253304 (OP)
I don't know how war would be there.
But i do know that any dense high rise major city like that would make for a sick and complex fps map.

>>64253304 (OP)
No army, even retarded ones, would try and capture that city with conventional means. The only way to take care of it without dedicating absolutely hilarious amounts of manpower is by cutting it off and starving it out.