Thread 64253952

>https://www.leonardo.com/en/press-release-detail/-/detail/09-09-2025-industry-partners-form-gcap-electronics-evolution-consortium-to-deliver-sensing-and-communications-for-next-generation-fighter
>https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/c4isr/dsei-2025-industry-partners-form-gcap-electronics-evolution-consortium
Another Joint Venture for the GCAP has been born. It will be called "GCAP Electronics Evolution (G2E)" and it will be tasked with the development of integrated sensors and communications component for the project.
The Joint Venture if made up of these companies.
JPN: Mitsubishi Electric
UK: Leonardo UK
IT: ELT Group
The four (Edgewing included) companies will collaborate to provide the next-generation advanced sensing and communications system, known as the Integrated Sensing and Non-Kinetic Effects & Integrated Communications Systems (ISANKE & ICS), as well as the integrated long-term logistics support service (TLSS), which will accompany the system for decades.
It seems like GCAP is the only non american 6th gen program proceding smoothly.

>>64253954
Press release

>>64253952 (OP)
>GCAP 10.jpg
having tails makes that 5th gen -- not 6th gen

>>64253952 (OP)
>GCAP Electronics Evolution
Close enough. Welcome back, Mitsubishi Evo.

>>64253981
that's not how that works, lol.

>>64253981
>t. chink
Sorry, rin peng. If being tairress was enough to make a prane 6th gen then the germans wourd be the first.

>>64253981
so are you saying that having canards means china has no 5th gen?

>>64253981
Is that the current internal propaganda circulating within West Taiwan?

>>64253981
stfu 奴才 lmao

>>64253981
Hilariously enough this thread is literally about what will make the GCAP 6th gen, the avionics, sensors etc.
Something China is 4-5 decades behind, so to do their usual weak posturing they scrambled to show their 1:1 copied from the US studies tailless designs in order to save face.

>>64253952 (OP)
A joint venture for the engines was also formed, with Rolls Royce, Avio Aero and IHI. I expect RR will probably do most of the work there, but it's good that the other partners are still involved

https://aviationweek.com/defense/aircraft-propulsion/gcap-engine-team-makes-progress-demonstrator

>>64253952 (OP)
>mitsubishi
>leonardo
>another italian company
Why no british company?

>>64253952 (OP)
So Italians and Japs pushed Brits out?

>>64253981
here's your 6th gen plane bro
>>64253996
Ackshyually, the French would be first
>The concept of the flying wing was born on 16 February 1876 when French engineers Alphonse Pénaud and Paul Gauchot filed a patent for an aero-plane or flying aircraft [5] powered by two propellers and with all the characteristics of a flying wing as we know it today.[6]

>>64254075
The brits will do the heavy lifting in the engine development, if you want to maintain a 33.3% workshare while also assigning each nation/company to their best suited enviroment you'll have to compromise in some areas (FCAS could learn from this).
The brits won't miss out on anything since it's the UK subsidiary of Leonardo that is partecipating, technology transfers are guaranteed.

>>64253981
countries that has absolutely NOTHING flying dont get to dictate what it is and what is not

hope that helps

>>64253981
Ah, so that's the script they're reciting now.

>>64254191
>FCAS
No such thing

>The F-47 program is an acquisition program to develop and field an F-47 Weapon System comprising the Air Vehicle, Ground, Training, and Digital Infrastructure Segments. Key F-47 attributes include enhancements in survivability, lethality, persistence, and interoperability across various military operations. Studies required to develop operational/system architectures to include a family of systems and spectral dominance platforms will also mature [under this effort]
-US DOD
Here's my contribution with the latest on the F-47. Whole lotta word salad but the F-47 is well into EMD from the start of this year with X-Planes since 2019 so all we can do is wait for tangible updates. These guys are smart, they aren't giving the chinks a crumb.

>>64254367
>The F-47 program is an acquisition program to develop and field an F-47 Weapon System comprising the Air Vehicle, Ground, Training, and Digital Infrastructure Segments
Sorry for the dumb question, but isn't that literally any fighter jet? I was under the impression that if a country buys (even from their own company) a fighter etc you are not just getting a plane but simulators, ground equipment, training, logistics etc

>>64254397
Yeah, that's right. Word salad. The important segment is after that in which they state
>enhancements in survivability, lethality, persistence, and interoperability across various military operations. Studies required to develop operational/system architectures to include a family of systems and spectral dominance platforms will also mature [under this effort]
Which could be interpreted as better stealth and speed (survivability), better avionics and weapons systems like the JATM and MAKO integration (lethality), the most tangible one yet: 30% more fuel efficient XA-100 engine and bigger fuel tanks (persistence). Interoperability would just mean slotting it in to be part of a datalink or Aegis killchain web and CCAs for family of systems. Spectral dominance platforms is also very interesting because it could mean anything from jamming a Growler pod into the F-47 to cooled airframes and laser weapons.

>>64254428
is there any info if it will still have supermanouverability or they'll go the GCAP route of high cruising missile boat?

>>64254454
No idea but I bet it'll be something like the YF-23 where it can still do respectable maneuvers.

>>64253952 (OP)
>frogs not in the program
>goes perfectly and ahead of schedule
Color me surprised.

>>64254068
Leonardo UK is entirely britoid, just owned by the Italians.

>>64254068
>>64254075
This is for the avionics and EW suite. Rest of the plane especially the engine will have wholly British companies working on it.

>>64254623
That's just false, Leonardo UK has no independence outside of short term local management, strategic direction, R&D frameworks and major capital decisions flow is still managed by Leonardo. It's quite literally, a subsidiary.
>>64254667
>Rest of the plane especially the engine will have wholly British companies working on it
There is not a single aspect of GCAP that will have only a single nation working on it. The workshare of a nation within a segment can be greater than the others like with the Engines Consortium being mostly UK led, but not by much. It's the same approach we had for the Tornado and Eurofighter.

Japan is the only country with a next gen prototype engine core. The lack of financial commitment by the British government to actual money is biting them in the ass now.
Even ignoring that Japan is the only one with a flying thrust vectoring prototype. The Eurofighter one was developed by the German and Spanish.

>>64254705
>To actually invest

>>64253996
germans only spearheaded the first gen 5 fighter jets. :(

>>64254685
Oh, thanks for clarifying that. I thought Rolls Royce would be taking the brunt of the engine work.

>>64254705
>Japan is the only country with a next gen prototype engine core
Well, thankfully Japan is in the GCAP program!
>The lack of financial commitment by the British government to actual money is biting them in the ass now
chinkshill delusions
>Even ignoring that Japan is the only one with a flying thrust vectoring prototype
>>The Eurofighter one was developed by the German and Spanish
sad lack of historical knowledge. And the GCAP will not have TVC since it's useless.

>>64254742
They will still be the ones doing most of the work most likely. It depends on what kind of engines they will choose. If they want adaptive cycle engines they will have to rely on the Japanese. Italian Avio Areo makes parts of the F-35 engines but they'll obviously be the ones with the least workshare assigned to them in this department.

>>64254742
It's a joint venture between IHI and RR.
Japan has a lot of material research for high temperature engines and gas turbines (ceramics and alloys), besides engines are expensive to develop.

>>64254742
Japan are the only ones to have actually run an engine at the thrust level and engine inlet temp required for this type of program

and the rumor mill for ahwile now has been the engine core for GCAP will be based on the IHI XF9 prototype.

Speaking of sixth gen
https://breakingdefense.com/2025/09/lockheed-ceo-says-firm-in-very-active-talks-with-dod-on-ferrari-f-35-with-sixth-gen-tech/

>>64254776
>IHI and RR.
Also Avio Oreo.

>>64254776
>>64255062
Why doesn't the Consortium choose a cool name? Like "Pizza, Ramen and Pubs."

>>64255140
European projects are allergic to cool names. Especially the italians who simply name everything with an alphanumeric code. PA-200, F-2000A etc.

>>64255163
Eurofighter is derivative, but cool. So was the Panavia Tornado. I hope they end up calling it Tempest Consortium.

>>64255140
A.I.R. Consortium.

>>64255140
UK, Italy and Japan unironically have the best cuisines in the world

>>64254995
>mfw they're gonna skip block 4 entirely and give it gen 5.5 treatment

>>64256221
Block 4 is too far along to skip, Gen 5.5 will likely be the next step beyond block 4 though.

>>64256227
when are they gonna fucking get it done it's been 10 years

>>64256242
2031 is the current date (announced a week or two ago).

Any 5.5 gen upgrade would be ~2035-2040 timeframe.

>>64254705
>>64254742
>>64254770
>>64254770
https://aviationweek.com/defense/aircraft-propulsion/gcap-engine-team-makes-progress-demonstrator

Looks like a demonstrator engine will be made first, both the demonstrator and the production engine will be new engines not built off anything existing directly. RR seems to be doing most of the work at least for the demo engine, it will be based on RR's Advance 1 and 2 engines further informing us that the engine will focus on high altitude performance and effieciency.

>>64256827
>both the demonstrator and the production engine will be new engines not built off anything existing directly
i heard they used modified ej200 for the demonstrator

>>64254995
>>64256251
QTDDTOT
The F-35 production lines are designed to mimic Liberty class production capabilities.
The hardware supply will be impressive.
But How to source qualified pilots?

>>64258400
I don't understand your question

GCAP full scale model at DSEI

>>64258400
There isn't a shortage of F-35 pilots as 350 or so graduate every year.

>>64258563
plus now italy is building the first OCU training center outside of the US, which will increase the pilot output even further

>>64253981
Quite pitiful how they can't design a state of the art airframe.

>>64258612
here's >>64254150 your state of the art design shitass

>>64258612
Yeah, It's what happens when the country doesn't invest in R&D and can only copy everything the others do. You're now left with a cargo cult industry that replicates what it sees without even understanding why.
The perfect example is their J-20 and J-35, less stealthy than a hornet with external bags, no DASS nor any kind of actual contemporary radar. Let it sink in that most chinese jets don't even have a true Datalink integration with their AWACS.

>>64258630
It's funny as shit to watch chinkshills try and make things there were forced to do as a talking point.
>yu no have troo seataw fightaw
Yeah, cause our datalinks and sensor fusion capabilities are good enough that we don't need to lug around an extra wizzo.
>6fth gren is trailress, reel steawth is trailress all asprect
I genuinely think it's a new script that's being handed out because across all platforms wumaos have been bringing it up out of nowhere. Nigger, the F-35 from it's worst aspect is stealthier than a J20 head on.

>>64253952 (OP)
Europeans are literally incapable of making a good plane. This will fail like every single one of their military projects fail.
>>64254023
Europeans are farther behind technologically than China.
They have literally no useful electronics industry to speak of.

>>64258630
The problem is that Chinese people are not even ashamed by that. It's rooted in their Confucianism culture where Confucius said that the person coming up with something and the one who stole his idea are just as smart. Their entire culture is based on the premise that you need to swindle others.
Ask any westeners who went to China to teach english in schools, you give an assigment for an essay and all the students will come back with the fucking same essay. if you try to give them a failing grade the faculty will remind you that as long as they bought an essay, it's valid.
China will never be able to invent anything because of this.
>>64258652
>nooo you wirr fair!
lmao. You're literally in a thread about the integration of ISANKE & ICS, something China will never be able to replicate. Come back when you have a 1970s datalink.

>>64258647
>cause our datalinks and sensor fusion capabilities are good enough that we don't need to lug around an extra wizzo.
American ones are.
Not Europoor/Jap ones.

>>64258548
>>64258552
Don't really feel the delta version, lambda variant is sexo though.

>>64258657
I am not in a thread about that, because the companies discussing doing that are unable to do that.
This is the same type of shit that was said about the Eurofighter, that it was a flying revolution and proof that Europe was catching up (of even surpassing) the Russians, or even the US, and it was a total flop.
Every European arms project is a giant flop. Because not only is their military industrial complex weak, but they lack basically an entire consumer electronics industry at this point that doesn't rely on foreign production engineering.
All these things that you dream this project will have, aren't going to be there. They never will be there. Because the groups making it don't have the skills or access to the skills to make that happen.

The US is right now the only country that can make a good plane with conformation. China might be able to make a half-decent one even if it is a clunker by just forcing it.
Europe will never make even a mediocre one.

>>64258658
There is no use in trying to argue with a bugman/VANK like you. Even if we bought forth all kind of evidence you'd dismiss it with a "noooooo i don't believe it!"

>>64258664
There is no evidence.
If the engineers aren't American, then the entire project should be ignored.

>>64258666
>>64258663
>because the companies discussing doing that are unable to do that.
According to a salty bugman like you?
>Every European arms project is a giant flop
Why do you ignore history?
>China might be able to make a half-decent one even if it is a clunker by just forcing it
Bwahahahahahahahaha
Man, I love your tears.

>>64258670
The smartest way to use the GCAP's funding is to put it into NVIDIA (an American company) stock, then wait for the F47 to release and beg and beg and beg the US to be allowed to buy some. And hopefully they'd have made enough money off the investment to afford a few by the time it comes out.
If it ain't American, then it is by definition, bad.

>>64258674
Your attempts to make this thread devolve into a EU vs USA shitfest are obvious. How does it feel to know that China doesn't have a single 5th gen aircraft and it will NEVER have a 6th gen one?

>>64258678
based

>>64258678
Nice American fighter on that patch.
Where's the European 5th gen?

Sorry to rain on your Europoor circlejerk thread where all the local ESL's gather to post about how this time Europe is going to make itself relevant, but I'm bringing reality back to the situation.
The GCAP is going to fail like every other European military development project fails. Because Europe lacks the engineering talent and the manufacturing capabilities to make anything that is at all relevant.
Just like they're buying F35's today, because they can't make anything better, so too will they buy the second string of US 6th gen fighters because GCAP will fail. And they should accept that today and prepare for it.

>>64258694
Leaving aside your obvious lack of knowledge about the F-35 JSF program, why are you seething so much bugman? Repeating the same 2 whumao talking points doesn't work. Is it because the most common couple in your country is WMAF? Or is it because you haven't be able to conquer a small island a couple of kilometers off your coasts?

>>64258709
Its fun that you're trying to force this thing where I'm a Chinese guy that is shilling for the US out of some machiavellian scheme, but it just doesn't work.
The GCAP will fail, it never had a chance of not failing, even. So just get ready to buy American. Be excited even to buy American, because then you'll know that it will work and be very effective. Unlike literally every project that Europeans have put their heads together on for many decades.
So stop with the Europoor fantasies that this time you're all going to work together and knock it out of the park and come up with something innovative and impressive. That you're going to master some mix of technology and engineering that you at this point have zero experience with.

>>64258727
>Its fun that you're trying to force this thing where I'm a Chinese guy that is shilling for the US out of some machiavellian scheme, but it just doesn't work.
Prove it, post a timestamped gun then.

>>64258652
>Europeans are farther behind technologically than China.
lol, lmao. China today doesn't even have 8% of market share in 14nm< processes from a decade ago.
>They have literally no useful electronics industry to speak of.
The fuck is ASML, IMEC, ARM, and NXP then? I'm not even a europoor and I know they are the biggest link in global tech.

>>64258741
The moment you fall into the trap of trying to argue with a chinkshill is the moment you lose, be ready for a reply that ignores any evidence and will simply make shit up, use misleading conjectures etc.

>>64258752
This one is a slimy bastard, trying to false flag as a burger to turn people against each other when the bongs, wops and Japs all had firsthand experience in 5th gens with the F-35 program.

>>64253952 (OP)
Which gen is the "super soldiers fight on the ground then jump in the air and morph into a plane and go 'pew pew' with lazers and got liek dronez swarm with 'em"?
9?

>>64256251
>Block IV won't be done until 2031.
Curse this gay ass reality.

>>64258780
it's still leagues better than anything puccia/chinkland have so we have no rush

>>64258663
The Eurofighter was a flop?

>>64258783
For some reason, I had it in my head that Block IV was imminent. That there were a bunch of finished F-35s waiting in Fort Worth for the software to be finalized.

>europe's greatest innovation in the last 20 years is attached bottlecaps
>think they can compete with the US and China in high tech aircraft
lol
rumao even

>>64258796
Those bottlecaps have fucking worked it seems.

>>64258736
See? It's the age old checkpoint of /k/ to oust thirdie shills. As soon as you aks them to show a timestamped gun they run away.

>>64258796
>hyperfixation on a single thing as argument to explain large complicated topic to himself
midwit moment

>>64258832
People sometimes forget that Europe still has fantastic industrial infrastructure.
I just took a Rhine River cruise this summer, and the part through the Ruhr was awesome.

>>64258832
>that hard plateau after thevarus
oof, that really did a number on the chinks didn't it?

>>64258842
the only thing in terms of innovation where europe might be a little anemic is all those techbro startup scams, the US has a lot more of those.
in all other sectors europe is absolutely crucial for the global supply chain in the exact same way the US is, european countries just haven't had a reason to build the kinds of weapons the US does, now that they do, there's no reason why they can't make their own.

>>64258854
>the only thing in terms of innovation where europe might be a little anemic is all those techbro startup scams
Our weak side is EU born and based digital services.

>>64258736
>>64258837
>go take a shit and europoors start getting smug
Don't you lot have to register each bullet with the government?

>>64258871
Hey, at least now we know you're not a chinkshill.

>>64258741
>ASML
Sandia's baby. Literally chosen just because they weren't Japanese back in the 90s.
Can't actually make anything with the machines they produce by themselves.

>>64258862
that's what i was jokingly referring to, yeah.
i was being a little dishonest, many of these services are quite influential, and europe is pretty lacking (though not absent) in the digital service sector, but it's still true that a large portion of them nowadays are ticking timebomb bubbles that don't make any money (or rather, profit)

the only other sector i can think of where the US has massive advantage at the moment is launch and satellite services, mostly because of one singular company.

>>64258785
Absolutely.
It was meant to be a top tier plane. Not what it ended up as, a budget model where adoption was driven by national pride, rather than actual utility.

>>64258871
don't you have a hungry escalator to feed, D&C chinkshill?

>>64253993
also

>>64258871
>ask for timestamped gun
>posts timestamped ammo cans
So, you're not a bug but just a retard? Still, knowing the US you could still be a bug.
>>64258881
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQTVb5QMlcg
>https://youtu.be/YWhj6cyavUo
your F-22 raptors pilot love to praise it tho. Weird that huh?

>>64258335
They are using EJ200 for the UK jet demonstrator, the engine demonstrator is a similar idea in that it will be used to demonstrate that the countries can work together on making a new engine before they begin work on the actual production engine. It might be fit to the demonstrator aircraft for testing purposes.

>>64258901
>friendly pilot is very polite and positive after getting to play around and have fun in a novel aircraft during a military exercise with allies
>this means that the eurofighter is actually good
He'd be very positive and polite about a Cessna or a P51 too, lol.
He even called out it being merely a 4th Gen plane.

His biggest noteworthy comment was pointing out the tactical differences between the Typhoon and the Raptor, with the former being more focused on low altitude action. Which is mostly a preservation instinct for the F22 that doesn't exist for the Typhoon, on account of it being massively more valuable.
With a small comment that due to its lower max speed and light weight, it felt more nimble when doing low speed maneuvers.
He openly criticized it for having primitive electronics. Which is accurate to Europeans being dogshit with anything digital.

>>64253952 (OP)
>can barely augment a 4th gen plane into a 4.5 gen
>can't even make a single 5th gen plane
>want to now cut the line to the front and make a 6th gen

This is going to blow up badly.
Why don't these dickheads realize that you do things in the right order because you need to learn all the basics before you can jump ahead?
Instead of trying to beat the Chinks or Burgers, why don't these dudes just catch up to them first.
The Koreans are the only smart people here because they know how to work within bounds and follow the path others have trodden as they learn. The KF21 is a smart and very reasonable plane for the Koreans to develop for themselves, and it will probably be successful and teach them a lot about semi-modern fighter design that they can parlay into a later, newer, fighter in the future.
Neither the Japs, Bongs, nor Dagos have developed organic 5th gen designs for themselves yet. And now they want to come up with something no one else has yet.
This is overambitious and underplanned.

>>64259098
>He openly criticized it for having primitive electronics
>No. 29 Squadron RAF
No shit, they have almost only tranche 1 and 2 Typhoons. And you don't really want to go into the electronics debate while holding the side of the F-22 that has a notoriously inferior radar and didn't even have a HMCS untill very recently.
>Which is accurate to Europeans being dogshit with anything digital.
You can keep believing what you want, it doesn't make it a reality.

>>64259145
Japan already has one 5th gen class turbofan and one +5th gen class turbofan. RR have an advanced demostrator (XG240) and they are adding Avia.
Fighter design start with the engine and can be a failure due to it, they have that covered. They are also capable to make the avionic and more than capable of the composite and material science side.
The rest will depend on the take of each country, even the 4th generation varied considerably depending who was using it.

>>64259145
>can't even make a single 5th gen plane
Please read the development of the JSF
>This is going to blow up badly.
Like the KF-21 not having a single customer confirmed yet even after having had half MOD guys fly in it for marketing stunts?
>Neither the Japs, Bongs, nor Dagos have developed organic 5th gen designs for themselves yet
Kinda funny all three of them are literally the ones most involved outside of the US in the development of the F-35 program, even better, all three of them have FACOs for F-35s and build parts for all the world fleet of F-35. Outside the US nobody has more experience with 5th gen fighter than these 3 countries.
I'm sorry that the GCAP being the the only 6th gen fighter currently on budget and on schedule is such a confidence blow to thirdies.

>>64258871
That's not a gun.

>>64258630
>J-20 and J-35, less stealthy than a hornet with external bags
I can see that being true for the J-20 but how do we know that the J-35 is less stealthy than a hornet?
also, do you mean the superhornet, or is it really even less stealthy than the A/B/C/D?

>>64259184
I hope they are not trying to market that as a 5th gen, cause what the fuck

>>64258788
They have the TR-3 hardware which is required for Block 4 software.

They had a bunch of TR-3 planes built but awaiting software to be delivered. They finally got initial software that allows them to be used as trainers, but are not currently combat capable. The Pentagon expects initial combat capability in 2026 but still says it'll be at LEAST 2031 until all the Block 4 features are implemented.

tldr; TR-3 jets are being delivered but are only capable of training for the next year or so and even after that they'll only get basic combat capability while full block 4 function will be a phased rollout that SHOULD be complete around 2031.

>>64258400
In the future, "qualified pilots" will be 20 year olds who press the takeoff button on an iPad.

>>64259364
elon musk tier take

>>64258727
>>64258694
Hey Chink, wtf are you talking about?

FAILING? Both the Eurofighter and the Rafale are probably the most successful 4.5th Gen fighters on the market.

>>64259167
This is what makes a true indigenous jet beyond 4.5th gen possible. The Koreans gave up entirely and just went for F-414s, the Turks went for F-110s in their KAAN but still have the cheek to say that they'll be flying an indigenous engine for it by 2032. Not happening. They don't even have monocrystal blade tech yet, much less superalloy metallurgy. Jet engines are a motherfucker, China spent 40 years and $120B on engines with countless Russian and American engines to reverse engineer only to match the performance of an F-119 from the 90s with their next best one matching an F-404.

>>64259145
>Instead of trying to beat the Chinks or Burgers
>implying the chinks are on the level of the burgers
>failing that, implying that the chinks have 5th gen planes at all
not so subtle, chinkshill

>>64259468
They are successful for being cheap for thirdies to buy. 30 years after they were anything near relevant.
Not for being competitive among nations with actual air forces.
The F35 is the real Acme Standard of plane.

>>64259880
>they are not successful!
>ok they are successful but not to who I like
>they have shit electronics!
>ok they are tranche 1 and current one are good but ignore that!
>hey! please believe I'm american!
>no I can't post a timestamped photo of a gun!
>Europe has no experience building 5th gen planes
>please ignore that the 3 nations building GCAP are literally the only 3 other nations outside of the US who were tier 1 and 2 of the JSF program, co-developing and building it!
Why don't you put at least some effort in your coping? Your entire mantra is literally ignoring everything people say to you and repeat the same 2 or 3 talking points. It's almost as if you don't even understand what we are saying and you're just going off a wumao script.

>>64259899
>>ok they are successful but not to who I like
It doesn't matter what shitholes like India buy.
It matters what actual nations with actual militaries buy. That is entirely correct.
No one that wants a good plane buys European. They buy American, because America is a nation that is good at engineering.

Euros sucking the cum drops that the US left behind on the F35 project does not make them anything like experts in actually designing a plane.
Your entire argument relies on the innuendo of the US letting them sit in the Dunce corner as they designed the F35, as them having a big role in designing the planes. That is simply not true. Nothing at all would make a rational person think that is true.
Europe is irrelevant. They have been irrelevant for decades but /k/ constantly deals with an influx of pathetic ESL nationalists that come here and pretend that their poverty military homelands are definitely on the level of a nation with an actual military and engineering culture, like the US.

>>64259968
please refer back to >>64259899

>>64259977
Why doesn't any nation that wants cutting edge aircraft ever buy European?

>>64259981
>Why *lies that I made up*
I don't know, why do you larp as an american when it's blatantly clear you're a bugman ESL?

>>64259981
>Why doesn't any nation that wants cutting edge aircraft ever buy Chinese?
ftfy

>>64260383
>>>/pol/
Still, statistically much more than both the US and China for obvious reasons.

>>64259145
Japan already flew a 5th gen demonstrator X-2 though.

The UK is also building a 6th gen demonstrator, and was developing BAE Replica before they joined F-35.
The experience brought the UK the only Tier 1 partner position in the program.

Plus as the pic Japan almost prototyped a 5th gen fighter based on 26DMU concept as a specimen in preliminary tech demonstration for F-X program. They could build a real 5th gen fighter that outclasses KF-21 in every aspect by a large margin anytime by simply putting together already prototyped components and subsystems but they don't do that because at this point generic 5th gen is low hanging fruit for them, not considered adequate for securing air superiority against China from 2035~.

Many of critical technologies for GCAP have already gone through extensive and meticulous demonstrations in F-X and Tempest programs, that's one of the reasons why it's the only credible 6th gen program outside of the US for now.

>>64258630
>Wing Loong 2
Kek, what a dumb fucking name

>>64259200
guns are illegal in china/worst korea

>>64256827
There is a different between what the UK side calls Tempest and the actually multinational GCAP project.

Though the British side doesn't make a good job of communicating it properly because they still kinda sell it as British thing.

>>64261895
True, but the UK will call the GCAP Tempest once it's in service.

>>64261779
>They could build a real 5th gen fighter that outclasses KF-21 in every aspect by a large margin anytime by simply putting together already prototyped components and subsystems but they don't do that because at this point generic 5th gen is low hanging fruit for them
I genuinely don't get why other countries like Turkey, Worst Korea and India even bother with making 5th gens when they're going to be worse clones of F-22 90s tech or still rely fully on US engines.

>>64263713
It's a jobs program as well as a hope for a future fully domestic capability.

>>64263719
If they can get it cheap then good for them then

>>64261779
Demonstrator =/= Actual Plane
None of them have made a plane that can fly a combat mission. Therefore all the experimentation is meaningless.
We'd have cold fusion and all be stuffed with robot parts if prototype demonstrators actually meant anything.

>>64264805
5th gen fighter is no wizardry, it's just an extension of 4th gen with specific, well-understood airframe design rules and maybe some avionics/propulsion/materials technologies the UK and Japan have no trouble with especially when combined.
Not to mention all the GCAP partners have a century experience in fighter aircraft manufacturing, they do know how to develop production aircraft from demonstrator/prototype, and it's much healthier to have extensive demonstrator/prototype programs on which production aircraft builds than have none.

>>64264805
>None of them have made a plane that can fly a combat mission. Therefore all the experimentation is meaningless.
You do realize that's just your opinion?

>>64264978
He doesn't even realize all gcap partners literally build f-35s in their countries.

>>64264978
Bro but le youtubers said the Typhoon was useless

>>64264805
The NGAD is 5 years behind if X-plane demonstrators don't count according to your logic.

>>64265768
Yeah, it is.
Neither the US nor China have a 6th Gen plane right now. Despite all the test flights we've seen.
Maybe some of us don't understand modern engineering so that might be incomprehensible, that a prototype and a real combat ready plane aren't the same thing. But the F47 will come out and be outstanding and totally cause a paradigm shift. That is the difference.
It isn't ready, if it was we'd see them being flown over NFL games every Sunday. Probably Chiefs games, lol.
>>64264942
It is wizardry.
That is why it took decades to develop by the US, and why both China and Russia spent decades trying, and mostly failing, to replicate the jump.
Having an old industry presence doesn't mean anything regarding innovation.
It is useful to have prototypes, it is retarded to think that they are at all equivalent to combat ready aircraft being designed and produced in-house.

>>64265893
implessive

>>64265893
Fair enough then. Regarding the second part though, I think the experience from being a tier 1 partner and operating 5th gens for a decade, along with leading engine, material science, radar tech shared between the three countries is much further along than what FCAS or even China is trying to do.

>>64268643
the hunchback of china

>https://youtu.be/TTjdEtHYDJ4?t=1219
No wonder the Chinese are always shitting up GCAP threads.

Is >muh 6th gen gonna be the "quantum computer" of military aviation? Are we gonna see any actual advancements of technology (like fly-by-wire, stealthy tech, radar, etc)? Or is it just a huge marketing stunt by the military complex to keep the budget coming in?

>>64269983
Realistically speaking nobody knows. If the ngad ends up being on par with the GCAP then 6th gen doesn't exist/is a meme. If it ends up being better then nobody will have 6th gen beside the US. Their propaganda works this way.

>>64270239
What's stopping smaller nations from just putting "6th gen datalinks" required for operating a swarm of drones in a 5th or even 4th gen airframe?

>>64272249
4th and 5th gen aircraft have no spare computational and electrical power for those toys

>>64270239
F-47 is pushing the envelope a lot farther than the GCAP partners are trying to, though it’s likely F/A-XX ends up closer to the latter than the former. F-47 is the only one going for variable cycles engines, which is a pretty big point in its favor. All of them are presumably going to benefit from advances in composite construction and stealth coatings when it comes to reducing radar signature. Interestingly the F/A-XX concepts tend to show dorsal inlets, which would also be a big plus for signature reduction. GCAP probably comes off the worst here assuming it’s the only one to end up with tails. Presumably all end up using GaN radar, unless something better is developed in the interim. Building for CCA control from jump instead of tacking it on should give an advantage over the 4th and 5th gen’s it’s being retrofitted to. Integrated lasers are pretty likely, a podded one was tested in an Apache over half a decade ago and within the last year or two I’ve seen a picture of an F-15 mounting a partially obscured pod that could also be a podded laser. From the American perspective there’s also an opportunity to design larger bays so these aircraft and therefore future long range weapon designs don’t have to be married to amraam form factor. Increased power generation vs current platforms seems rightly to be a huge priority vs what’s available today, since it unlocks most of those capabilities I’ve listed. I’d say the new generation moniker is warranted, even if F-47 is the only one trying to be bleeding edge on the air superiority side. GCAP is a lot more modest, arguably being closer to a 5.5th gen looking at the spec sheet, but it’s better for the countries involved to build something achievable that won’t break the bank, and still gives them much more capability than they have today. F/A-XX probably ends up focusing the most on strike and least on a2a, but that’s what the Navy needs most right now.

>>64274612
>F-47 is pushing the envelope a lot farther than the GCAP partners are trying to
I still don't understand the differences of "wants" between the F-47 and the GCAP to be honest, I haven't been able to find a single confirmed detail about either project beside vc engines (which I've heard japan will make for the GCAP)
>Interestingly the F/A-XX concepts tend to show dorsal inlets
imho that will bring issues during a cat launch starving the engines at slow speeds and high alphas.
>arguably being closer to a 5.5th gen looking at the spec sheet
personally I'm of the idea that untill an actual technological revolution happens none of them are actually true 6th gen, it's just marketing. Some will be better than others but I don't think a better engine and controlling a bunch of drones is that much of a generational leap from a 5th gen.

>>64274741
GCAP engines per most recent news are being done by a consortium with Rolls Royce seeming to be the single largest contributor, per AvWeek’s latest reporting.
https://aviationweek.com/defense/aircraft-propulsion/gcap-engine-team-makes-progress-demonstrator
While F-47 and GCAP both aim to make a much more capable and longer ranged fighter F-47 is both much farther ahead, with Boeing’s AII-X demonstrator flying in 2019 while GCAP’s is still being constructed, and willing to pay a lot more on technology development. For example, F-47 intends to tackle range by massively improving cruise efficiency with a VCE, while GCAP does the same by making a very large plane with very large wings to fit more fuel.
>dorsal intakes
They have long posed a lot of problems but the Navy program should really be looked at as more A-XX than F/A-XX. From what we’ve heard from admirals talking and what we know of their requirements this is much more of an A-6 replacement than an F-14 replacement. Main concern seems to be popping China’s anti access bubble, so it needs to be as stealthy as possible while having a lot of internal volume for weapons carriage. Dorsal helps with both there.
>tech revolution
There have been a lot of very interesting aerospace patents since the F-35 was designed. I’d argue that revolution has happened and this generation will be what brings it into service. There’s been a lot of research that you can’t really back port to an F-15 or even F-22 upgrade, and I’m confident we’ll see the fruits of it when these planes enter service in the 2030s

>>64270239
Other way around. The NGAD is going to going to be operational by 2029 while the GCAP is slated for 2035 so there's a good gap for them to try and implement whatever the NGAD is shown to have.

>>64275533
>so there's a good gap for them to try and implement whatever the NGAD is shown to have.
Nah, GCAP will want to have basically all of their principal design finalized by ~2029/30.

The flying demonstrator is 2027/28, they want service entry by 2035, that means you need a final design by at the LATEST 2030. So if NGAD is flying in 2029, that gives them a year at most to observe and potentially change something for GCAP.

>>64275567
Oh, makes sense. Gonna be fun to see what they have then.

>>64275605
>hypersonic
>cheap
You can't have both in the same sentence. I know $100m sounds a lot to a thirdie like you, but we've been buying $100m fighters since the 80s. If you also paid attention, Anduril's products are all aiming to supplement current assets while using existing infrastructure, not replace them.

>>64275661
To quote another anon:
>The country that first fielded drones, used drones en masse and has been burying Muslims with drones since probably before you were born, doesn't understand drone warfare
>The people who do understand it are those just now making their own drones and using them in missions
>In addition, despite these drones falling to basic counter measures that the US already has more of than anyone else in the world, the US still doesn't understand them because reasons
The US has been actively droning people for decades. Civ tech catching up just offers our already expansive drone force more options for wider deployment. There is still 0 other nations that come close to fielding drones the same way. Yes I know you are impressed by swarms, but for the US a swarm is a high quality HE barrage delivered by our high tech weapon of choice.

Also mind telling me how a (in this case) $200k subsonic sea skimming cruise missile will shoot down a fighter jet? Thirdies or retards like you think that drones and cheap munitions will democratize war or give an impoverished nation any edge when all of their factories have been bombed out by a combination of thousands of $200k Barracudas, hundreds of $1m JASSMs and dozens of $2m Tomahawks within the first 24 hours? How will their counterattack of Temu and shahsneed drones get past the cheap IADS of APKWS, DEWs and AHEAD cannons, not even mentioning traditional AD systems? All that cheap munitions will bring to the table is more options for big or Western militaries to destroy the enemy defenses with even less risk to the warfigher so that the big and high tech platforms can come in and destroy whatever is left with impunity.

>>64275730
You don't even know what you're talking about and that was clearly evidenced when you couldn't read a single paragraph. Anduril isn't making a hypersonic missile, they're going to be making SRMs for the SM family of missiles which have always had supply chain issues with the SRMs. No one is complaining about that. This whole war of attrition is the future bullshit stems from the fact that two poor shitholes with decent AD and nonexistent SEAD or strategic strike capabilities are shooting each other in trenches. In an all out war, production facilities will be the target for those that have the strike capabilities and what'll stop it is economic pressure rather than some WW2 fight to the death. Nukes come before that and then everyone loses.

Since you keep on bringing up hypersonics for some fucking reason, they're a meme. A true hypersonic vehicle by US standards is something that goes Mach 5 or higher while demonstrating maneuverability and operating in the atmosphere. China, with all their industrial might and cheap labor has been mass producing DF-ZF HGVs for 5 years and they still cost $7m a pop. Can't even hit a moving ship cause it'd need to slow down to Mach 4, 100 miles away well above the horizon to use an onboard sensor based guidance system making it a perfect target for traditional IADS. That's the reason we don't use them, not at least as a primary system because they're so cost ineffective.

>Pentagon slop
If you actually read up on RAND/CSIS wargames in the SCS from 2018 to present you will see a trend of pitting a near worst case scenario US force pitted against a full load China have been making huge progress towards an acceptable loss victory exactly because of integration of cheap systems and distributed C2 that companies like Anduril are helping implement. It's not like the MiC is stupid, they learn.
All the Pentagon does is scare Congress so they will get more funding. They've been doing this shit since the Cold War and it works.

>>64275864
kys

>>64275730
>kapil Kajal

>>64275605
>nitwit thinks “hypersonic” or even “supersonic” and “off the shelf” go together in the same sentence
You’re the kind of retard that will apply K.I.S.S to everything and think yourself a genius.

>>64275864
>retard has short-circuit because word big
>concedes and opts out of conversation with tail between his legs
>tries his best to put on a smug facade while doing it
Thank you for conceding, so now we all agree that this new-age thirdie attrition cope is cope and go about our business.

>>64265893
>That is why it took decades to develop by the US, and why both China and Russia spent decades trying, and mostly failing, to replicate the jump.
That's because the US pioneered it, had to start from research and demonstration of an entire concept first, others don't have to as they already know to an extent there's a solution thanks to the US and can use it as a benchmark, that's an advantage. For Russia and China, they are still not good enough at certain crucial elements that involve electronics/materials/precision manufacturing with their cuttingedge manufacturing equipment largely coming from the West or Japan.
Another factor you need to take account of is that the advent of 5th gen fighter coincided with the post coldwar period where most countries enjoyed peace dividend and cut down on military expenses, a situation that doesn't warrant quick development of an expensive super highperformance fighter to penetrate peer enemy air defense.

>>64274450
I should have said "6th gen computer systems" instead of "datalinks". But yeah I guess the electrical power generation would be a limitation factor.

>>64275864
saaaar

china doesn't have 6th gen fighters? then why do the J36 and J50 appear on the 6th gen fighter wikipedia page?

>>64276819
>wikipedia

>>64276819
It's speculated they're 6th gen airframe demonstrators.

Actual 6th gen aircraft would require technology china has never showcased and has yet to prove domestic manufacturing capability, so i'll hold my breath for now.

They're likely 6th gen airframe designs using 4.5/5th gen hardware (engines, avionics, etc).

>>64277177
The PLAAF never publicly "leaks" its demonstrator planes. That stunt they did in December last year is a similar pattern for the public unofficial reveal of the J-20, whereby the planes are proper prototypes of an upcoming model. We certainly don't know the specs of the Chinese doritos, but even then, the Chinese being able to be the first to deploy a "good enough" 6th-gen aircraft is worth paying attention to.

>>64277567
>first to deploy a "good enough" 6th-gen aircraft
except there is literally no evidence of them being anywhere close to 6th gen.

>>64277177
What is a "6th gen airframe"? Isn't the commonly agreed definition of "6th gen" being able to autonomously communicate with unmanned air craft as wingmen? Stick a diesel generator, some computers, and antennas on a Eagle and you have a "6th gen aircraft" in a 4th gen airframe.

>>64277567
right, and it took them 6 years after that to get it into LRIP.

>>64277610
see
>>64270239
>>64275567

>>64277589
Of course, we don't know the specs nor the intended roles of both aircraft. But the US is rightly paying attention to the development and is committed to its own 6th-gen program. It would be a mistake to dismiss the developments of adversaries. The F-47 is likely to be the most advanced 6th-gen plane, but the danger is China being able to field good enough planes in a timely manner and significant quantities. The US needs to ensure the F-47 program is ran efficiently.

>>64277640
>It would be a mistake to dismiss the developments of adversaries
it's also retarded to pretend that they've leapfrogged 30 years of aircraft development.

They're barely hitting full rate production on their first 5th gens, and magically they're already flying 6th gens?

Come the fuck on.

At BEST, they're flying demonstrators figuring out how the airframes behave in the air for a future fighter based on that airframe design in the next decade or two, at worst they're prototype airframes with no intention of being developed further.

In no reality are those low rate initial production models of real fighters about to enter service.

>>64277614
Certainly, but the point is that the first look of the J-20 wasn't some technology demonstrator, and the same is likely to be in the case of the J-36 given how the PLAAF isn't transparent. If they're ready to show it in public, then it's not going to be a tech demonstrator.

>>64277662
>If they're ready to show it in public, then it's not going to be a tech demonstrator.
They've shown off tons of shit in the past that we never see again presumably because development stopped and they dropped it.

We've seen it with drones, missiles, etc.

>>64277659
>it's also retarded to pretend that they've leapfrogged 30 years of aircraft development.
It certainly helped that they stole F-22 and F-35 data, not to mention China today is a manufacturing powerhouse, even if it's still catching up in certain cutting-edge technologies.

>They're barely hitting full rate production on their first 5th gens
Observers have already noted at least 300 J-20s in service, and that's not counting the J-20A/J-20S variants which are seeing service this year as well. The J-35 is in LRIP which is in time for service on the latest carrier which doesn't use a cope slope.


>At BEST, they're flying demonstrators figuring out how the airframes behave in the air for a future fighter based on that airframe design in the next decade or two, at worst they're prototype airframes with no intention of being developed further.

They'd be flying this stuff far away in the desert, not right in an urban center for all to see. Like I said, the PLAAF is highly secretive and based on their past track record, it's not unreasonable to say the J-36 and the other dorito are actual prototypes, not tech demonstrators.

>>64277640
Considering that the demonstrator planes proceeded the EMD phase by 6 years, I think it is fair to assume that the US is just following its habit of keeping everything classified while also having a timeline advantage of flying demonstrators before EMD as was done with the F-22 and F-35.
>>64277662
The J20 'not a demonstrator' in 2010 was flying on Russian engines, didn't have it's own radar till it stopped being tested on another plane in 2016, and had very visibly different RAM coatings. I doubt the EO/IRST was even fully functional till 2015. It was a prototype but barely could function as one.

>>64277699
>had very visibly different RAM coatings
J20 has no ram coatings

>>64277858
What is the point of saying such an obviously incorrect statement? It doesn't add to the conversation nor does it benefit either US or China advocates.

>>64277939
>incorrect
Can you prove me wrong? China doesn't have any RAM

>>64277960
They got their hands on RAM tech after the Serbs shot down a Nighthawk and we didn't bomb the Chinese embassy fast enough.

6th gen planes aren't real and they can't hurt me.

>>64253952 (OP)
Yeah. I'm thinking we're back.

>>64278107
>the chinks are having so much trouble with their 20 years in development H20s and chinkshit 6th gen demos that they've reverted to spamming barely 5th gen planes in a 6th gen thread
grim.

>>64278165
Grow up unc

>>64278107
Nice Mig 1.44

>>64278184
>skibidi zoomerbabble
On behalf of /k/, I accept your concession.

>>64258552
The chinks wouldve been behind by decades if the retard contractors and MIC didnt have shitty cybersecurity
https://youtu.be/uCuuwk1vCkI
https://www.csis.org/programs/strategic-technologies-program/survey-chinese-espionage-united-states-2000

>>64278352
that's just the cover story for israel selling all their data on the f35 to china

>>64278186
>there're retards still conflating the Shenyang J-14 fanfics of the early 2000s with the Chengdu J-20

>>64278456
no one cares

>>64276819
Wikipedia also calls gamergate a sexist extremist hategroup.

No idea how I missed this but this was recorded on August 29th at a defense conference. Head of Phantom Works said that the F-47 is going to be flying ahead of schedule. This nigga isn't a pencil pusher either, he's got all the engineering and military background for his role.

>“Constant R&D … enabled the underlying technologies that come together in that platform,” Miller said, adding that Boeing is “positioned to move quickly.” The company has also invested heavily in production capacity to ensure readiness.
>"It’ll happen faster than normal.” He emphasised that the aircraft was “born in Phantom Works” and “built on decades of technical development.”
>Boeing’s investment in NGAD has been substantial enough to not only ensure both programs (F-XX) succeed, but to make the F-47 a reality sooner than planned.

Who's betting on a 2027 rollout ceremony?
https://www.axios.com/2025/09/03/boeing-phantom-works-f47-schedule
https://defence-industry.eu/f-47-next-generation-fighter-jet-to-fly-sooner-than-expected-says-boeing-phantom-works-chief/

>>64277177
>Actual 6th gen aircraft would require technology china has never showcased and has yet to prove domestic manufacturing capability, so i'll hold my breath for now.
have you been living under a rock

>>64280602
Living under the rock is probably better than living in whatever delusional schizo bubble you are living in right now.

>>64280610
really? you're going to openly claim that you prefer ignorance to reality?
look out your window dude, in what industries is the US beating china at this point?

>>64280602
I've been following chinese military aviation advances for 20 years now, so no, i've not been living under a rock, I wasn't particularly surprised by the J-20 and the advances china has made in their jet engines specifically.

A 5th gen only a few steps below an F-22/F-35 I can buy, a TRUE 6th gen from china in 2025 is horseshit.

>>64280624
is military aviation the only thing you've been following from them?

>>64280615
Do you want to bring up how CIVILIAN shipbuilding industry translate to Warship capability just like WW2? How is chip manufacturing btw? You cannot even beat TSMC or even dying intel. What about your jet engine? Oh yeah, all you did is making clone of 1980 soviet engine. That is why the so called chink """6th gen""" use 3 engine instead of 2 engine like normal jet. Because chinkoid engine suck dick. But it's tailless right? That's mean it's a 6th gen right??

>>64280646
>Do you want to bring up how CIVILIAN shipbuilding industry translate to Warship capability just like WW2?
japan, korea and china make up almost all shipbuilding today. the US navy themselves even stated that china's shipbuilding capacity is 232x greater than the american shipbuilding capacity
many of their shipyards are dual-purpose so the same shipyards that build cargo ships are also building navy ships. dalian, huangpu wenchong, jiangnan and hudong are some of them
>How is chip manufacturing btw?
i haven't been following this too much as it's not really an area that interests me but the last time i checked nearly 20% of all chips in the world were made in china and the chinese government has just announced that they're banning the import of nvidia chips, which is a pretty shocking bit of news if you know anything about the difficulties of high-tech manufacturing
15 years ago they were a joke, 5 years ago they were a cause for concern and now they're just beginning to actually throw real effort behind it and if you compare the quantity and quality of STEM graduates in china to the US coupled with the civil-military fusion allowing the chinese to dominate every single industry that they've tried to take over thus far, i just don't see how the US can stay ahead for another 10-15 years
>What about your jet engine?
"your"? if i were chinese i'd probably kill myself on the spot but anyway, china hasn't had the titanic benefit of having a large civilian aerospace industry to tap into for military applications like the US does, not to mention that developing jet engines are one of the top 5 most difficult pieces of technology that a nation can possibly design and manufacture
with that being said, the CJ-1000 seems to be chugging along fine so i'm not sure what answer you're expecting in that regard

one last thing, you have ESL spelling and grammar so i'm just gonna assume that you're a mexican living in the US

Why are they ahead in UCAV by like 2 generations?

>>64279899
>Who's betting on a 2027 rollout ceremony?
nobody

>>64280823
>why are they something they’re not
Because they’re not, prettt pointless question chinkshill.

>>64280980
Block 4 F-35 wont come until 2031 which by then PLA will have started low production of their 6th gens.

>>64281150
>Block 4 F-35 wont come until 2031 which by then PLA will have started low production of their 6th gens.

>>64280972
I like how you just randomly replied to this midway through your chinkshill ramblings

>>64281150
>low production of their 6th gens
chinkshill, they hardly have 5th gens in the first place, stop dreaming.

>>64280823
this is genuinely the funniest shit ever because everyone knows the US has been working with carrier based UCAVS alone since the turn of the century

>>64281187
Well, if we want to look at cold hard evidence only China has 6th gens flying. Europe has only the GCAP demonstrator being built and the US has a couple of incomplete CGI renders.

>>64281426
What makes the Chinese planes 6th gen?

>>64281426
Cold hard evidence lies in that the NGAD has had an extended flying X-plane validation phase before EMD for 6 years compared to the single year gap the F-35 had. EMD till LRIP then took 5 years. With the much more comprehensive validation phase and physical production infrastructure investments by Boeing, it is a fair assumption to assume a very accelerated EMD phase.

There was no need to publicize those X-plane flights as the design seems to be something new as with the F-117 or B-2, nor was the announcement about the X-plane flights made in response to China's shit considering it was done back in 2020. It's already out there. Don't need to beat your chest about it. Same applies to the CG renders, no need to reveal the new design when China is at the point the US was 6 years ago pitot tubes galore and just give them a template to copy.
Of course someone who's culture desperately depends on appearances and saving face will not be able to comprehend this but that is how things work.

>>64278107
No.

>>64281426
this was my post I made as a joke, why was it deleted? I understand trying to curb chinkshill posting, when it's low effort, but by deleting anything remotely not dickslurping the US you're basically becoming like them and stifling the last crumbs of discussion that was present on /k/.
As they say, holy insecurity Batman.

>>64282361
You answered your own question. Trolling is against the rules.

>>64282389
it's not really trolling, it's more of a snarky remark of the truth. If just mentioning that there is zero evidence of the F-47 existing is enough to get a post deleted then we have a deeply insecure janny. At this point why not ban any threads that isn't a direct bootlick of Boeing? Will I get a 2 day ban for mentioning their recent fuckups? I fucking hate nu-/k/ and zoomers.

muttshills are genuinely more annoying than chinkshills at this point
at least chinkshills have an actual physical product to talk about

>>64282402
idk, people here personally shit on SEALS and the Navy all the time. Probably can do the same to Boeing, search KC-46 in desuarchive or something.
>zero evidence of the F-47 existing
You cannot preface that statement with the word truth when there is also no evidence to prove that it doesn't exist. If the Air Force came out saying 'oh we totally have been flying a plane since 2019' in response to China then sure, that reaction leads to evidence of it not existing, but that clearly is not the case.

looks like he is on a powertrip.

Testing things.
Ahem. Outside of a couple of CGI renders there is no PUBLICALLY available evidence of the F-47 existing nor ever having flown.
This is an undeniable fact, and it doesn't matter that chinkshill use this fact to try and larp as if they have anything even remotely close to a 5th gen.

>>64282500
yo jannies stop banning this nigga
>>64282511
Fair enough, within those narrow definitions that the chinkshill narrative follows then that is true.

>>64282389
I received no ban/warning for trolling, they deleted them for no reason. I just got a warn for "complaining about the moderation" so at least that is fair enough considering it's a written rule. I promise our volunteer janny overlord it will never happen again. I bow before their might and wisdom.
>>64282433
The claim is that the prototype/testbed has been flying for at least 5 years, but I have yet to see anything remotely close to evidence of that being true. It most likely is, but to claim that it's an undeniable truth is just disingenuous.

>>64282524
Yeah, I even specified " that chinkshill use this fact to try and larp as if they have anything even remotely close to a 5th gen." because chinkshill still try to claim their J20s are true 5th gen, when it's just not true. Their radars are laughable, they have no real 360 sensor fusion or foward mini-awacs capability etc.

>>64282537
Bad radars? I know that they probably don't have LPI and are useless against jamming (2022 Pelosi incident lmao) but would expect them to perform relatively decently at detection.

>>64282851
Not at the level required to compete with the F-35.

>>64282537
None of what you said is true. It's insane you're trying to push a bad radars meme from the 2000s today when China is fielding AESAs on their smallest missiles while we still have 4th gen planes and AMRAAMs without it.

>>64282526
You're not alone. The jannies delete anything which hurts their egos, and Chinese weapons are high on the list.

>>64282929
a bunch of shitty aesas on missiles don't mean shit.
>missiles
what is AIM 260

>>64282949
>scatological language attempting to conceal your gross ignorance
It means they have lots of small cheap TRMs, dummy - one of the key empirical markers for judging AESA quality! So many they can put them on disposable items.

>>64282929
>It's insane you're trying to push a bad radars meme from the 2000s today
Then why did they fail so spectacularly in Japan and Taiwan in 2022?
>we still have 4th gen planes and AMRAAMs without it
No shit retard, those planes are from the 80s and missiles from the 90s when the Chinese airforce was still MiG-21s. Why would you waste money to retrofit them when it's cheaper to make new aircraft and munitions, as has been done with the 1200+ F-35s?

>>64282511
>there is no PUBLICALLY available evidence
I mean, there is if you don't require that evidence to be the airfroce ACTUALLY showing the jet to you.

An airforce general confirmed in 2019/20 that we were flying NGAD demonstrator(s).

Just because you weren't invited out to see it in action doesn't mean it didn't happen, the general confirming it happened IS perfectly valid evidence to use for its existence.

Unless you've got a long-standing proven track record of USAF generals lying on record about these programs why wouldn't you believe it?

>>64283305
A general saying "trust me" is not evidence. I do believe a prototype has flown, but no public evidence exists of it. That's my point.

Are the NGAD nad FAXX going to have vertical stabilizers?

>>64283576
That's frankly retarded.

But you do you, at least I have confirmed you're just dumb as shit.

>>64283609
Why don't you re-watch the youtube video you obviously just came from and let us know?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrGkantfqik

>>64283576
I mean, it's pretty good evidence.
As the other anon said, go ahead and point out previous airforce generals blatantly lying about ongoing fighter development programs. I doubt you'll find a single one.

>>64283643
>trust the government saar
China shows real things that actually fly. You have CGI. Your cope is dogshit.

>>64283777
kay

>>64283636
I wish this guy didn't have such a onions face because he's actually one of the only channels that covers niche shit like the adaptive cycle engines and random news that's just easier to digest in video form.

>>64261687
Definitely not for Germany tho

>>64283643
>I mean, it's pretty good evidence.
It's literally NOT evidence, are you a thirdie ESL? It's deciding to trust his words, not evidence.

>>64284911
Not even close, US is 41% white, Germany around 89-94% depending on the statistics. Still, go to >>>/pol/ if you want to dwelve in the intricacies of browns calling each others browns.
>inb4 anything you'll reply

>>64282934
>constantly shill, screech, subvert and lie
>also ban evade
>the board loses all patience and good will with you
>cry about persecution
don't shill for chink weapons then, faggot, you did this to yourself, now there's no going back.

>>64285150
>make thread requesting video footage of early NLAW use in Ukraine.
>get banned for off-topic thread on /k/

>>64254705
US adaptive cycle engines are currently in testing. I believe both GE and P&W have a design in the program.

>>64258400
F-35 is ostensibly easier to pilot than any fighter aircraft that came before.

>>64255163
>Especially the italians who simply name everything with an alphanumeric code.
Even when we give a name to go along side the alphanumeric code, it's usually a cringe one, like "Phoenix" for the new attack helicopter.

>>64285150
You are the problem killing /k/. I'll take two dozen china spammers posting actual weapons discussion over a butthurt boomer trying to censor the board.

>>64277640
>It would be a mistake to dismiss the developments of adversaries.
I can do whatever I want because I'm not involved in defense or procurement in any way shape or form.
China's planes are total ass and they can't even take a decent photo of them.

>>64286211
>-t. manchild defending corporate CGI
If you were honest you'd feel bad about yourself.

>>64286234
I literally just want to see decent pictures of some airplanes, anon. That's it.
The difference is night and day.

>>64286234
I had to resize this one like 4 times to meet the file size limit.
I haven't seen a photo of Chinas 6th gens over 1500px in either dimension.
I'm literally on my knees begging for a decent picture. Please.

>>64282511
My dick is 8 inches long BPEL but I'm not going to show it anyone on this website. You can go ahead and tell yourself I'm just internet lying, it cant be real, no proof, but I know how big my dick is.

>>64286274
Mine is 16 inches

>>64286155
GE and Pratt have got two each. One complete F135 sized since the program was originally for the F-35 before ending for various JPO, airframe compatibility, and budget reasons. The second is closer to an F119 in thrust class and footprint, they’re still being developed. GE was pretty confident they could fast track theirs but they haven’t been allowed to last I heard

>>64286417
They should be desu because dual engines are less risky than a single one

>>64286195
The problem with /k/ is that it isn't /int/ or /pol/ enough for you? There are 5 to 10 CHINA STRONK threads up all the time, and every one of them is just
>le muttsmuttsmutts it's so over for the w*ct amelica 10% white
If you wanted to talk about weapons, you chinkspammers wouldn't be making a new thread ever time you got pushback in the old one. You are doing the exact thing Armatard did and then complaining people treat you the same.

Pic related is a 6th gen plane by the way. Prove me wrong.

>>64287017
This is fuddlore from the 1970s. It doesn't apply to modern planes.

>>64287035
Retard

>>64286417
>GE was pretty confident they could fast track theirs
If GE was REALLY confident, they could fast track it themselves without waiting for a contract from the government.

>>64287027
>everyone is the same
Reddit

>>64287027
if only there was actually something to talk about, but instead it's the same small group of schizo's shitting these threads out, they post some super inorganic scripted
>w-woah look at how impressive these speculative stats are
and when they recieve any pushback on this at all (logical considering most of this stuff has zero published information)
they slide into victim mode and start calling everyone around them jealous mutts who just don't wanna eat the same copypasted script and nod along happily.
then they go full retard when the thread inevitably gets removed, then decide that somehow the thread won't be removed even faster if they start spamming 20 of them a day, like being a stubborn retard is going to make a difference.

the best place for discussion of chinese equipment is any thread not mainly about china because otherwise these retards jump in the thread and ruin it for everyone.

at some point people just get tired of it, their patience dries up and they just start insta-reporting china threads (i don't, but many people do at this point, and i don't blame them)

>>64287060
This, as of recent it's only gotten worse as they post 4-5 threads at once with a single line OP and then go into other threads and bring up whatever thing they're trying to shill. There's not conversation to be had.

>>64287049
GE is pretty unlucky in these things and that would be a multi billion dollar expenditure. Can’t really blame them for not doing that. Granted I like their chances since Pratt is having trouble just keeping up with F135 demand and they’re a lot more experienced with variable cycle engines, but they’ve been burned before. Don’t forget they had a variable cycle engine all the way back in the 90s for the ATF competition, but lost largely on the grounds the tech was considered too risky at that point.