Thread 64264774

So based on how things have been going in Ukraine so far should we be training our soldiers for attrition trench warfare?

>>64264774 (OP)
No
/thread

>>64264774 (OP)
>trench warfare
Add money and a bajillion drones will make it not matter. Billions of fiat currency aren't shit. Imagine if Ukraine and Russia had way more Bitcoin.

>>64264774 (OP)
You already kinda do. Trench warfares biggest factor is waiting and hunkering when you need to

>>64264774 (OP)
russia defense spending may look impressive on paper but take into account that 80% of that is stolen before being used in practical ways so in reality it has the military capability of brazil, if you think that us or europe has the military capability of brazil then yes i guess

???
Why would you look at two cripples fighting and think ''yeah, no other choice for us but to fight like them like it's 1916".
All you have to do is send them back to the stone age. 500 SCALPShadow on every gas plant, oil plant, substation, would send them back to 100 years ago. Ask Spain how dumb you feel without electricity nationwide for a day. They'll maybe intercept 6 or 7 with their cucked air defense, but debris will do their job anyway.
Then you wait a week and crack up the popcorn as you'll watch them fightin each other for a leaf of bread, some potatoes and some fuel to cool cats and dogs on a barrel-BBQ.

>>64264774 (OP)
trench warfare doesn't work when because Americans can just carpet bomb or even ac130 them trenches. Ukraine vs Russia is a joke of a war.

>>64264851
>is a joke of a war.
I don't know, man, unofficial estimates say that about 3 million are dead so far. Now think about the area where all of this is concentrated. The frontline is what, about 700km or 430 miles long. I wouldn't even call it a meat grinder because to me it seems like that would be preferred to whatever is happening there.

>>64264782
This post is so schizo I can't even understand it.

>>64264774 (OP)
most soldiers in ukraine dont even fight from trenches most of the time
they use local terrain more often than trenches

>>64264774 (OP)
People are taking what is happening in Ukraine too seriously, its a very specific circumstance.

>Ukraine functionally has infinite equipment because of western aid
>Russia is about equally strong as the Ukrainians
>parity in AA systems grounds most air support
>both burn though their artillery ammunition reserves, leaving no fire support to flush out entrenchment

The chances of another war looking just like this is borderline impossible, one side will lose in a matter of weeks and trenches will get blown the fuck out. None of whats going on(trenches, FPVs, raiding parties) would be happening if NATO aid didn't most of the Russian air force and attack helicopters.

>>64264874
No one says is not a bloody war.

But on operative and technical levels is a mudfight because both lack a functional airforce.

>>64265057
>Ukraine functionally has infinite equipment because of western aid
There wasn't a single war in history, starting from the Bronze Age, where some sort of international support wasn't a factor.
>Russia is about equally strong as the Ukrainians
Russia has more money, more men, more materiel. Ukraine compensates for it by being better at war. If they were equally strong, Ukrainian troops would've been in Moscow by now.
>parity in AA systems grounds most air support
That's how it works when you fight a real war and not a pretend war against goat herders.
>both burn though their artillery ammunition reserves, leaving no fire support to flush out entrenchment
NATO has 1/10000000 artillery ammo stockpiles and production compared to Russia and Ukraine.

>>64265086
>that’s how it works in a real war
No lol, that’s how it works when you have barely any SEAD doctrine, technology and training

>should we be preparing for << circumstances resulting from two countries with no real air power >>
lol, try not being poor next time, sorry

>>64265137
It’s amazing how many times they keep trying to push it, it’s like they think /k/ doesn’t know any better.
Adaptations will be made for drone warfare but sadly for thirdies this is not a dreadnought moment and you don’t get to stalemate a western army by spamming cheap drones and arty.

>>64265142
If anything it's a win harder moment for the west, fighting against air power and drones is going to be brutal

>>64264774 (OP)
A MacDonalds in every American trench!

>>64265149
It’s gonna be brutal for everyone who either:
Doesn’t have the technology and innovation to make the cheap drone counters that turn it into a trivial issue (microwaves, lasers, APKWS, electronic warfare), doesn’t have the money to buy it from someone else, or has the money but such shitty diplomatic relations that they’ll never get their hands on them.
Basically it means the only armies that are going to get megaraped by cheap drones are the thirdies that think it’s a type of wunderwaffe the west has no answer to.

>>64264874
>unofficial estimates say that about 3 million are dead so far.
This is only if you take Russia's word for the 1.7 million dead hoholpiggers claim and simultaneously believe that Ukraine's more accurate claim of 1 million Russian casualties is all KIAs. It's likely around half a million.

>>64264774 (OP)
>So based on how things have been going in Iran so far should we switch to a child soldier based army?

>>64265213
kek, gonna use this one

>>64265086
>NATO has 1/10000000 artillery ammo stockpiles and production compared to Russia
So true, multipolaranon.

>>64264851
>Americans can just carpet bomb
At this point half of the Burgers would join the Russians and take up arms against their fellow countrymen in case of a war.

>>64264874
It's a Joke because a larger, richer more populated country that styled itself as the 2nd most powerful military is bogged down in 3 going on 4 year border war and is having national infrastructure being hit almost weekly by an enemy they were supposed to have defeated in two weeks

>>64265057
It's the US army deciding they needed a new rifle cartridge because the geography of Afganistan showed some shortcomings with 5.56, wrong lessons are being learnt and applied to theoretical future conflicts. While the Russia/Ukraine conflict is showing that rifles are fine as they are and its drone related stuff that needs attention.

>>64265086
How is an average russian position going to defend against a JDAM getting shoved up their asses after NATO is finished raping whatever AD and air cover they have?

>>64265322
>How is an average russian position going to defend against a JDAM getting shoved up their asses
annon those russian conscripts have been training for that moment their entire lives.
by bog they will take that JDAM in the ass and have room to spare for at least two more chechens

>>64264795
>500 SCALPShadow on every gas plant, oil plant, substation, would send them back to 100 years ago.
This isn't WWII, anon. You agent going to do mayor strokes on civilian infrastructure. There will be targeting attacks at C&C locations as well as things that would disrupt their logistics like rail yards and that's probably it. A massive civilian strike is just begging for a response in kind. Up to an including ICBM attacks if you're hitting somebody like Russia or china.

>>64265264
A lot of the drones in Ukraine are cheap substitutes for actual heavy hitting munitions. It does show that both sides will have constant recon from FPVs but I doubt this environment is going to reproduced. Ukraine is a very specific weird circumstance. Its basically a case of a losing side in a war being kept afloat with foreign aid, so you have a bunch of Ukrainians scrambling to make shit from scratch(like RPG7 warheads on FPV drones) versus an enemy in the same position. In a real near peer conflict neither side would need to use something like that, and a loss condition wouldn't create an environment where trenches and drones would help much(for example, Taiwan losing the air war and getting all their bunkers and trenches bombed the fuck out by chinese JDAMs).

I have a deep seated feeling that a near peer conflict would be high end equipment banging and the loser withdrawing due to the political impact and the sheer danger of losing combat capability against an equal or greater foe. If China sinks two carriers and downs half of the F35s covering Taiwan I'm convinced the US is withdrawing and not risking all the equipment and escalation. It's not going to reach a point of mobiks and 3D printed drones, we'd use nukes by that point.

>>64264774 (OP)
Reasons why Ukro-Russian war devolved into trench warfare was because russian logistics were, and still are even more so, fucked so that they can't apply necessary pressure on the weak points, and their command structure is atrocious.
Whereas Ukraine simply had no ability to maneuver effectively until after a year or two, at which point russians had already had plenty of time to mine and fortify fuck out of everything, making mobile assaults costly and difficult.
Problems exacerbated by the fact that aerial superiority can't be gained due excessive amounts of Anti-Air both sides have.

So simply put, if you prepare for the sort of war they are having, you are preparing to lose slowly and costly way.

>>64265459
Yeah thats for the USA. Now consider a war in Korea where the North invades. For the Koreans, withdrawal is not an option. Same for say, if Poland went buckwild and with a coalition of EU countries invaded Russia. Then its trench warfare.

>>64265489
>For the Koreans, withdrawal is not an option
The Norks couldn't withdraw back above the DMZ?

>>64264774 (OP)
No

>>64264984
He wants to scale up drone production massively, thinking that means autowin, and is of the opinion that the bottleneck is financing due to the dollar and euro not being accepted by those being able to scale up production.

>>64264774 (OP)
Combined arms works. But it begins with air superiority.

>training soldiers to sit around in a foxhole waiting to be blown up by a drones, mortars, artillery, bombs and missiles

How do you do that exactly ?

>>64264774 (OP)
One time I farded and it sounded like my pooter was trying to speak to me, so I bent over with my head between my legs and asked
>Wut?
And my balloon knot was all like
>ppppfffffffffffftttr pfffffffffft pft
And then later I got pink eye. So, yeah.
>>64264984
Lurk, faggut

>>64264782
>muh fiat currency
Retard.
>muh Bitcoin
Newsflash, CP and drugs (ie the things you can actually buy with shitcoins) are not actually strategically relevant items. Not even for ziggers.

>>64265153
Fuck you, /k/ is a Wendy's board

>>64265359
>This isn't WWII, anon.
Correct so far.

>You agent going to do mayor strokes on civilian infrastructure.
And incorrect. LMAO, even Ukraine is doing those. AND NATO militaries have done them in virtually every war they've fought over the entire history of NATO.

>disrupt their logistics
Blowing up every refinery and fuel pumping station in Russia is going to obliterate their logistics.

>A massive civilian strike is just begging for a response in kind.
With what? Russia is barely able to do some tepid terror bombing even against just Ukraine.

>muh ICBM
ROFLMAO. Pic relevant.

>>64265488
>Problems exacerbated by the fact that aerial superiority can't be gained due excessive amounts of Anti-Air both sides have.
Ukriane is starting to gain air superiority, though. The current russian collapse in Sumy that has seen them driven all the way back over the border to Kursk was enabled by russian iar defense shaving become so thin on the ground that the Ukrainians were able to fly Bayraktars and massed JDAM/HAMMER strike packages in the area.