Thread 64277698

Is russia still developing the PAK DA, or is it a pipe dream by this point? Are they go8ng to replace the Tu-95?

>>64277698 (OP)
They can't even replace the bombers that were blown up during Spiderweb, what makes you think that they can make a new bomber lol

>>64277698 (OP)
>Is russia still developing the PAK DA?
No.
>is it a pipe dream by this point?
Always was.
>Are they going to replace the Tu-95?
No. Russian strategic aviation is on a permanent and irreversible decline. Russia is not the USSR.

I've got a related question: is Russian aviation even productive, or is it more of a liability than anything? Should Russia be building any advanced aircraft at all?

>>64277710
>Is Russian aviation even productive?
Are you referring to the Russian aviation military-industrial complex? Or to the VKS?

>>64277710
It's an extremely efficient way of funding yachts and expensive hookers.

>>64277714
I'm referring to their effect on the outcome of battles vs. what they've cost Russia in terms of losses and maintenance. Would those resources have been more efficiently invested in larger numbers of ground-launched missiles?

>>64277727
Not trying to be mean, but these are kinda midwit/ amateur questions. Do some reading and lurking.

>>64277698 (OP)
>Is russia still developing the PAK DA
PAK NIET

>>64277698 (OP)
They are going to be buying chinese warplanes in 20 years. It's over.

>>64277698 (OP)
>russia still developing
no to everything but shitty drones

>>64277698 (OP)
>russia developing
Pipe dream

>>64278026
Makes me wonder what China was doing still buying Su-35s all the way till 2019

>>64277698 (OP)
yes we are, slowly, but we are.

>>64278041
probably wanted to have multiple options in case j-20 or j-35 were significantly delayed.

>>64277748
why dont you just answer it, or dont reply if youre just going to be a giant crab apple

Oh I remember reading about the early days and promises of the PAK program. Especially the PAK TA, a gigantic flying wing transport aircraft, with strategic plans for Russia to field enough of them to be able to transport an armoured brigade to anywhere on earth with them or some shit.

>>64278076
>transport an armoured brigade to anywhere on earth
>where airfields would support those giant planes kek

>>64278089
Just make it a seaplane! Problem solved! Russian naval history is full of sucess

>>64277703
Building a new bomber is actually easier than getting old production lines restarted a lot of the time. The subcontractors don't exist anymore, the people who knew how to make specific things are retired, and the plans are hot garbage by modern standards if they even exist anymore. Modern processes are actually much better at making the parts, often simplifying the process.

The problem with Russia is always the same though, their ambitions are way ahead of what they're capable of.

>>64278076
Ok but that would be kino though?

>>64277698 (OP)
I bet they keep backsliding.

>>64278076
>>64278089
>>64278096
VDV must be sweating bullets.

>>64278136
>imagine if you would mein monke
>the entire vdv
>all of it
>flying to chase 1 banan

>>64277698 (OP)
more fighter bombers is a better use of money
but who knows what programs they are prioritizing

>>64278076
>supersonic cargo aircraft
Uh... why?

>>64278492
who doesn't want shipments to arrive quickly

>>64278076
If Russia still owned 400 tanks, this might be useful.

>>64277698 (OP)
>PAK DA
You mean PAK NYET?

>>64278536
West has Netflix. Russia has Nyetflix.

>>64277698 (OP)
in 2024 the first flight was gonna happen in 2026
but with the war id say 2028 assuming the war ends in 2026..

>>64278041
>Makes me wonder what China was doing still buying Su-35s all the way till 2019
There are a *lot* of Chinese.
They can crew many, many more airframes than they have.
A high-low mix makes sense to bulk out their airforce.
They have a lot of borders and coast to cover, have ambitions beyond their coast and they can't quite match their enemies on quality so quantity it is.

>>64278052
>why dont you just answer it
NTA but you don't deserve an answer.
lurk moar

>>64278679
>he thinks russia is going to have a functioning economy in 2028
That's a pretty big assumption

>>64277698 (OP)
Pipe dream? More like a tube filled with shit, barbed wire and uncubed mobiks

>>64277698 (OP)
Russian military projects are more about research than mass production. They are probably going to build like 3 of them if they feel like the tu-160 is still good enough at its job
>>64277727
Apples to oranges. One isn’t strictly superior to the other

>>64278705
saying nta is reddit behavior, lurk more

>>64277698 (OP)
>is russia still developing-

No

>>64278924
Hey now we've seen lots of new developments from Russia.
Battle sheds
Battle hedgehogs
Casualty transport wheelbarrows
Several new forms of STDs

>>64278076
its probably another project that only exists in blender.

>>64278910
holy projection

>>64278706
you don't need a functioning economy to build tools of war
you only need that if you want to produce them for long

>>64277698 (OP)
They’re not developing fucking anything from scratch lol lmao, even the SU-57 was based on an existing soviet design.
Shit like this and that fucking carrier model are pure undiluted 100% face-saving cope.

>>64277698 (OP)
they are but don't have any money for prototypes, they are only building tu-160s instead and will probably continue to do so until the strategic forces are in a good condition again

>>64277698 (OP)
It's over for Russia. You think Americans are sweating about China? Imagine Russoids.

>>64278924
They are developing their anuses

>>64278100
Not if you cannot buy the CNC machine tools, EDMs and the rest of a modern aviation industrial base.

California has a higher GDP. Russia is not the old "USSR + rest of Warsaw Pact" and much Soviet industry was in Ukraine.

>>64279601
There is no sweat, comrade.
By Putin's admission his grandchildren all speak mandarin.
The fate of the country is sealed.

>>64277748
>>64278705
>>64278980

>>64278679
Russian military equipment is always two years away from entering service, sometimes for decades.

>>64278990
>you don't need a functioning economy to produce a stealth bomber

>>64278041
Wanting to keep taps on how Russians are further developing the Flanker and subsidizing that development.
>>64279576
They are building new Tu-160's in artisanal quantities. If Russia lost half dozen Tu-160's in drone strikes or accidents, it would probably take better part of a decade to recover from the losses. All the Tu-22M's and Tu-95's droned in operation spider web will take 'em decades to replace. Reality, only combat aircraft Russia as built in substantial quantities since collapse of Soviet Union are Flanker derivatives and naval variant of MiG-29. Remember the time Algeria bought and rejected MiG-29's? Because those were made of old parts, they cancelled and ordered Flankers. Indian orders paid for development and production line of MiG-29K.

>>64280229
>They are building new Tu-160's in artisanal quantities.
I'm not even sure that description captures how slow the process is; and how unique each finished Tu-160 airframe is.
There's not even really a production line or factory. It's more of a restoration/rebuild workshop.

>>64280294
wouldn't it be basically just as hard to restart b-1 production?

>>64280304
In the United States, it would be cheaper to just design, build, and field a new bomber rather than restart the B-1b line.
Unfortunately for Russia, the high-tech military manufacturing capability, expertise, and facilities needed for such a project either ended up outside the Federation, or atrophied in the 90s.
Pic sorta related.

>>64279792
it's just a big bomber and it has to look stealth
but you do not need a functioning economy to do that

>>64280358
>it's just a big bomber and it has to look stealth
What's the point of it if it only looks the part

>>64280383
Probably cheaper to operate. Swing wings have always been a money pit.

>>64280322
how many spooks do you figure had to give this pic the OK before they could release it?

>>64278962
The project is nominally still alive, but its unironically just the Ilyushin il-106 lmao, a 90's cargo aircraft design.

>>64280523
>how many spooks do you figure had to give this pic the OK before they could release it?
Probably only a few, it shows the layering of carbon-fibre sheets I think which isn't that sensitive but I imagine a few guys were studying it to see what might be in the background or inferred from other production steps shown in the pic.

I'm curious what those mats are though, maybe places people step when applying the carbon-fibre?
I don't think they're production material because they're randomly placed, have huge brand names on them and are different on each airframe.

Then again, there's guys standing on the wing without using the mats so I have no idea.
Maybe it's areas where they needed to build up the wing because of imperfections in curing of earlier layers?
It seems like an awfully manual process but I guess production started in '89 so it's going to be way less sophisticated than anything being built now.

I wonder if the blue lighting is from UV lamps curing composites under the wing?

>>64277698 (OP)
Is russia still paying someone? Probably
Will it actually result in an aircraft? Probably not

>>64280229
>They are building new Tu-160's in artisanal quantities.
AFAIK it's mostly based on older soviet-era parts

>>64279787
blame the russians
although from what i remember its not gonna be a totally new design but an evolution of the tu 160

>>64280867
>what i remember its not gonna be a totally new design but an evolution of the tu 160
Remembering the new story is an essential skill in Russia.

Originally it was supposed to be a completely new heavy flying wing transport.
Now it's going to be new engines and avionics on an old tu-160 airframe.
And even that's probably never going to happen.

>>64278076
>Russia will create quantum rifles that will dematerialize any matter in the universe! Oh you don't believe us? You must be Eglin NAFOfag, time to spam the catalog for the rest of my life

>>64278076
>Slaps the side of PAK TA
>"With this baby, you can drop am entire brigade unsupported on airfields covered by enemy artillery
>Wing falls off
Fund it

>>64277698 (OP)
Looks like my latest ksp creation

>>64280769
Last Tu-160 made from Soviet era parts was delivered in 2017. They ordered all new built planes in 2015. Actual production starting in 2019, first 4 new built aircraft were delivered in early 2024, like two years behind schedule. They ordered 50 aircraft in 2015, so far they have delivered 5, one of those was airframe that was partially completed during Soviet era.

>>64277698 (OP)
The only new stuff the Russian Federation has been able to build in decent numbers are trucks. Literally everything else is a shitty overhyped derivative of a Soviet design.

>>64278492
super duper sonic airplane 9000 looks better on paper in the report to comrade defense secretary

>>64280383
I don't know
Not my problem

>>64277698 (OP)
Certainly not in any timeframe and upon any quantative scale which would be strategically consequential to global affairs or to any respective adversary

>>64277698 (OP)
I don't know, ask this guy... oh wait

>>64277717
>>64277710
This board is gotten so obviously and hilariously bad.

>>64282339
another for the list

>>64282351
>This board is gotten
esl

>>64282369
>>64282339
russia is still ruled by the tsar and his boyars over all the serfs
russian society has not fundamentally changed at all in 800 years

>>64282369
>you can help by expanding this list

>>64280880
>Originally it was supposed to be a completely new heavy flying wing transport.

what? no it never was nobody knew jack shit even through painfull translations on various russian sites nobody knew anything about its design

what you are describing is the new tu 160 m2
what im saying is an evolution of it

>>64282488
Hi fellow list expander.

>>64282723
>fellow list expander
Indeed, colonist.

>>64277703

Let me guess, you think Western propaganda is an invention of Russian propaganda?

Yes Russia is the second largest military in the world and yes if any country in the world besides the US is capable of producing such an aircraft it's them

>>64284416
I'll believe it when I see it.

>>64278962
Give me a blender model who can visually fit 400 tanks in, just space wise.

>>64284416
>if any country in the world besides the US is capable of producing such an aircraft it's them
That would be the bugmen

>>64285189
>Give me a blender model who can visually fit 400 tanks in, just space wise.
Presumably it refers to a fleet of air lift vehicles.

>>64284416
Bugs by a large margin and maybe Bongs and Frogs, lmao

>>64284416
pfffffff hahahahahaha