Thread 64360351

>has 10.5" ar
>gets outgunned by dude with pump shotgun
How the fuck you lose to a shotgun with a rifle at 50yds.

>>64360351 (OP)
guy with the shotgun hunts

This was before they nerfed shotguns to balance akimbo 87 niggers

>>64360351 (OP)
>at 50yds.
100 yards or less give me a shotgun

>>64360351 (OP)
Bad luck, poor tactics, poor marksmanship or some combination of the above.

>>64360351 (OP)
>How the fuck you lose to a shotgun with a rifle at 50yds.
50 yds is fine with 00buck. will all 8 pellets hit a guy at 50? no.
will enough hit at 50 to kill yeah. not even a question.
if you had 5 shots youd be ok out to 100. would all of them hit? nope but something would.

>>64360364
Kek

>>64360351 (OP)
QRD?

>>64360351 (OP)
Ineptitude. This some attempted incel outrage again? And some rando stopped him effortlessly or what?

>>64360357
The greatest war heroes typically all grew up hunting. Just saying.

>>64360351 (OP)
50 yards is practically knife fighting distance

>>64360351 (OP)
00 buck is like 9 shots of 9mm all at one

>>64360351 (OP)
You got a video, holmes? hook a brotha up.

>>64360351 (OP)
>>64360425
>>64360453
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnEFDQ4zLHM

>>64360457
Thanks, nigga.

>>64360453
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Fordyce_shooting

>>64360351 (OP)
At 50 yards it's an easier shot with a shotgun than it is with a rifle.

>>64360426
The greatest war heroes didn't get to grow up

>>64360430
Mmm yes the 50 yard knife

>>64360426
>incel
do not buy into this misandrist bullshit

>The greatest war heroes typically all grew up hunting
yeah no shit anon, we learned that city folk make bad soldiers since the bloody Renaissance

>>64360514
sounds like they should have been a little better

>>64360457
>2m2s mark
>guy casually pumping gas while watching the officers and gunman exchange shots

>>64360601
I liked all the waddling, there was really only one person who ran

>>64360601
at 2:25 you can see him still standing there with his thumb up his ass
zero situational awareness
or maybe too much vidya, he thinks shotguns and pistols can't hit anything outside 20 yards and just self destruct in mid air

>>64360426
>This some attempted incel outrage again?
>>64360536
>do not buy into this misandrist bullshit
It becomes it's own thing when the incels made it a thing.
Incel was a self-adopted term, not a label used by others.

Anyway, nobody has talked about a motive for that shooting. Not even the shooter, who lived and got 4x life for it.

>>64360636
>zero situational awareness
Why would he run from a few gunshots in rural burgerland?
Guns are a right so gunshots are just the sound of freedom.
Freedom doesn't scare country folk.

>>64360658

Or maybe he was just deafened by the diabeetus

>>64360654
>Incel was a self-adopted term, not a label used by others
it began as a crackpot psych theory by some stupid but somewhat well-meaning woman
it became a slur slung by feminazis at every possible opportunity, amplified by Democrat media
on 4chan it was mockingly adopted as an ironic joke as men have always done since Kipling and probably time immemorial

>>64360601
>*crack*
>*sip*
>Yup... not my problem

>>64360457
>>64360465
So what was his problem?

>>64360351 (OP)
Notrainings will always lose to hastrainings.

>>64360351 (OP)
>Arkansas
>DOLLAR GENERAL
>Ar vs shotgun
>All these trucks
American kino

>>64360736
The guy was also wearing a shell bandolier, I have to respect that

>>64360438
more 32 acp but ok

>>64360882
Ok

>>64360536
>we learned that city folk make bad soldiers since the bloody Renaissance
The backbone of Italy's fighting force would like a word with you.

>>64360536
Historically soldiers lived in cities and the rural population farmed and mined resources

>>64360351 (OP)
>Shotguns are obsolete just get an 11.5" - ACK
Lmfao, gAyR shitlords on suicide watch. Bet the guy with the shotgun got him because he didn't even really have to aim at that distance with a spread of 15 or 20"
>Inb4 the made up talking points about how shotguns don't make it easier to get hits due to spread

10.5 ARs suck for anything but room clearing. Turns out it really sucks when longer barrel guns are shooting back.

>>64361628
Shooting someone on the other side of a parking lot is very different to shooting someone on the other side of the room when it comes to spread. Shotguns aren't significantly better than ARs at landing hits at HD ranges, but this wasn't at HD range.

>>64360536
Self-described incels are a thing, has nothing really to do with the way Twitterwhores use the word.

>>64360670
Did you miss that entire weird little circlejerk that existed on Reddit and Wizardchan? It was like /r9k/ on steroids, there were indeed a few spree shooters who came from there, and they would idolize Elliot Rodgers, who's like the textbook example.

>>64361639
There's literally nothing that holds a 10.5" 5.56mm rifle back at 50yds, don't be a mongoloid. He was just a bad marksman.

>>64360536
>we learned that city folk make bad soldiers since the bloody Renaissance
ITT, backwoods hicks actually believe this.

>>64361668
>Nah I'd win he was just bad
There you go with your hero fantasies

>>64360351 (OP)
>has 10.5" ar
Wow maybe these are actually a meme or something.
>>64360364
Only oldheads will know.

>>64360691
>from the area
He had probably just had enough with all the stupid local yokels and their small town bullshit. I imagine small town Arkansas to be something like a quiet agony.

>>64360425
Schizo gets loose, believes God told him to kill people for no reason. Many such cases.

>>64360364
Mw3 was such a knee jerk reaction to the overpowered shit mw2 got away with it was frankly disgusting how bad shotguns were nerfed in that game.

>>64360351 (OP)
Should've had a 11.5" PSA

>>64360536
Brother the subhumans call themselves that.

>>64360351 (OP)
What was that Clint Smith quote?
Pistols will put holes in people, rifles will put holes through people, shotguns will rip chunks of shit off people.

>>64361668
x2, the 10.5ar is good for making hits but you still have to make the hits.
>muh surpressive fire
Yeah that's a thing but it's just a tool that you use so you can maneuver to get more hits.

>>64361689
>Wow maybe these are actually a meme or something
They're not. I recently shot one for the first time and they are wonderful. This is honestly a case of skill issue

>>64360736
Arkansas is the only state ive ever been to in the US and I wouldnt want it any other way. Stumbling down to dive bars off the free way at 2am just to try find another goddamn drink was an adventure

>>64360426
More common trait among MoH and VC recipients is being elder siblings who had to step in and help the family early in life.

Yeah anyone with a 10.5 is a retarded schizoid. Good thing I run a 10.3

>>64360612
From all the police videos i seen i am convinced most Americans can't run even to save their life, and i'm not just talking about the fatties.

>>64360601
You get to brag about how cool you are if you survive. And if you don't? Well that's not your problem, you'll be too dead to care.

>>64361740
nah, striker was still busted in MW3. i used it to counter fags running akimbo smgs

>>64360351 (OP)
he immediately caught birdshot to the face and arm from the looks of the video
i dont think im returning accurate fire after that

>>64360736
You just made me realize that rednecks shooting each other at the Dollar General in a craphole part of Arkansas will look kino to foreigners like the Balkan wars does to people who are not from there.

>>64360465
>guy gets shot in the head with 12ga
>360 and walks away
What a guy

>>64360730
You're still here?

>>64361661
>they would idolize Elliot Rodgers, who's like the textbook example
He spent time in the /fit/incel threads and most likely in /r9k/ too.
Although I think he was more of a native in PUAhate.

>>64360351 (OP)
>nooooooo its obsolete all you need is glawk 19 and 10.5" palmetto shart armory AR or you WILL be outgunned and die!!!

>>64360882
>.33 pellets
.32 acp boolets are .3125 and 9mm are .355 give or take. Hope this helps

>>64360612
It was tense watching all those fat meemaws waddling as fast as they could. I knew when they focused on the one in black she wasn't going to make it.

>>64361668
If you were using heavy OTMs, which you should be and should have a stock of, it won't have the velocity at 50 to reliably do the pseudo-hollowpoint thing. Tipped would work though.

>>64361689
The velocity loss below 14 inches is just too extreme to consider 5.56. I thought the really shorty ARs were for concealment, and purposefully running suppressed .300 subs.

Unrelated but I'd really like to see G9 Defense make something like a 38 grain "external hollow point" 5.56 because that shit is legit in my 9mm carry.

>>64365056
At 50yds? Sounds bullshit.

>>64365056
>The velocity loss below 14 inches is just too extreme to consider 5.56
It really isn't.

>>64360882
Nope. 000 Buck is .36 caliber, 00 Buck is .32 caliber, and No.4 Buck is about .22 to .25 caliber (at least, I've seen .22 marked and advertised as No.4).
Why am I even repeating this? It's in the image you're replying to.

>>64363964
Right, but the point is that this is a type of person who exists, and they have their weird little circlejerks where they feed into each other's negativity and mental illnesses. They're somewhat like troons in that sense.

>>64365056
Oh wait, heavy OTMs. Well yeah, but that's not the only ammo in the world.

>>64360457
>Johnson
First Ukraine, now the US, this motherfucker needs to chill out.

>>64360438
after THAT post i thought that this again was not the table but someone's skin.

>>64360351 (OP)
Should've bought a 16" M&P sport 3

>>64360457
Just watched it, bro is spattering blood everywhere for like 10 minutes. He pings off his cruiser "I'M SHOT! IM SHOT!", no TQ, doesn't even attempt to stop his bleeding, just hobbling around aimlessly pouring blood. Then when hes finally found "Where's your tourniquet?" "I DONT KNOW!" Really shows he is more suited for sitting in his cruiser passing out speeding tickets.

>>64360601
>>64360636
>>64366493
it seems like a shitty little podunk southern town
in which case the best training that the cops get is on the coffee machine at the station
they looked like they were 3-4 meta's behind the current meta

>>64360364
I want to go back.

>>64360418
basically slinging like several .32 ACPs at someone from 100 yards but like way higher velocity

are you gunna fuckin miss like half of those? yeah probably, are the half that land gunna hurt? yeah totally.. I think the actual problem is from that far with a scattergun you kinda dont know where the fuck all the pellets are gunna go, and he's in public

also it's rounded balls of .32 ACP so their ballistic effect isn't as dramatic as if you got hit by a constructed hollow point going the same speed, it's probably more poking holes in you then utterly destroying your muscle tissues like getting hit by a 2900 fps rifle round

>>64360351 (OP)
out fucking skilled

>>64363097
actually really sad.. both him and his cousin ran in to try and help people who were hurt.. which may have been a really bad idea.. but if I was laying dying alone in on the floor of a dirty supermarket I would really love to have someone I don't know try and save my life.. Callie Weems was shot and killed while trying to render aide, she was a nurse. Her cousin also did the same but was struck in the head with gunfire and survived.

>>64360457
Shooting at grocery store called "The Mad Butcher"

>>64365056
Damn you are aggressively uninformed

>>64360736
>>64360854
Do you guys think there were random madman firefights like this in the Wild West? Honestly, there probably was

>>64365056
Why would you need heavy OTMs when you point out in the same breath that TMKs are better? (And they are.)

>>64367208
Yeah but the romanticized ones were more like family feuds or between law enforcement vs. outlaws.

I had a friend from Big Spring (this is in West Texas, and "Spring" is pronounced "sprang" btw) who claimed his dad (who was the mayor) got into an armed high-noon standoff with the town lawyer. This sounded like a tall tale but I believe that happened.

Also it's kind of buried but labor stuff, like coal miners vs. Pinkertons in West Virginia. This scene from a movie is something that actually happened and involved corporate thugs confronting the cops, and the situation escalated and the cops pulled guns and blew their fucking heads off and then the townies joined in:
https://youtu.be/AGMjaw9ZvTY

>>64360536
you're a pathetic loser, no one wants to fuck you, you're going to die alone

>>64360671
Having cut my teeth as a cop in the 90’s, I’ll always be a fan

>>64360351 (OP)
Why do larpers try to say shotguns are outdated when dome hick held off ar15 equipped law enforcement with a pump shotgun? If you had a 1301 or Benelli m4 you would completely rape someone if they entered your home.

>>64366727
00 Buck and 000 Buck are typically a LOT faster than .32 Auto from a pistol, the spherical lead projectiles are less efficient in comparison to FMJ, but the velocity bump (and more importantly, immediate quantity), more than makes up for that.

You'd really be looking at something advertised as low recoil to be getting comparable speed (per pellet), to .32 Auto from buckshot.

>>64367208
A few, but it's been crazy exaggerated by popular imagination and fiction. If you compare crime at the time to later periods and up until today it was WAY less, there were for instance only like a half dozen bank robberies ever during the Wild West, that kind of crime became way more common later in time.

>>64368316
During the Tulsa Race Riot 1921 some random white dudes actually used planes to fucking fire bomb the black part of town. The US is ironically less nuts than it used to be.

>>64368316
Wendigoons video on this unironically made me very proud for a sec, my mom's side used to be made of miners. Back in the day they weren't afraid to put corporate scum in the dirt, and valued people. The only reason the corpos even survived was because they had machineguns very smartly hidden and the fag Army was coming to bail them out.

Our workers rights were earned with blood, steel, and unity. I think it's time we start remembering what militias are actually for.

And yeah fed, fuck you reading this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1V-yQ3Y_XE

>>64360457
>stands out in the open
>gets shot (?)
>casually saunters over to his vehicle with his back to the shooter
>stops short of the door that has a ballistic panel in it and crouches at the front where the shooter has an angle on him
>rifle is pointed at the ground
>gets shot again (?)
>drops his fucking rifle (which had a sling attached that he wasn't using)
>continues sitting around with his dick in his hand where he knows he has ineffective cover
>*bang*
>finally starts moving to adequate cover
>draws his pistol (he's got at least one good arm)
>runs away (his legs were working fine the whole time)

Figure out what you're going to do and have some urgency about it for fuck's sake. Get to cover and dump rounds or book it for home.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqKewQIsw8U

>>64360457
OH LAWDY NO!

>>64365056
What about a 16" loaded with m193?

>>64361740
One of them was still fucking stupid. I remember complaining about it on Gamefaqs.

But MW3's problem was that all the maps were retarded ADHD spray alleys that allowed SMGs and shotguns to dominate more than anything.

>>64360399
>t never patterned a shotgun at 100 yards
even with flite control wads you won’t hold a good group. You will get some on a torso, but no guarantee they hit vitals. At a 00 pellet at 100 yards has lost a lot of steam. 40-50 yards and in with the proper load is about the most you can reasonably expect.

>>64360438
More like .32 but with worst penetration and that bleeds velocity quicker.

I love both buckshot and I carry a .32. But be realistic in what they do.

>>64360457
Oh so it was a gunfight against cops. That explains why the shotgun won at distance. Cops are retarded and bad shots.

>>64361639
Explain what the limiting factor is with a 10.5” barrel in this engagement. I’m really curious to hear.

>>64361613
>The backbone of Italy's fighting force
well that explains a lot

>>64361627
not really
not the kind of city you're thinking of

>>64361673
I'm born and bred city boy, ackshually

>>64361760
> shotguns will rip chunks of shit off people.
You left out the important piece
>with the right load at the right range
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l9nGB8cK1HM

>>64365056
You are wrong about nearly everything you posted. You can easily search for this information and watch videos physically showing you.

>>64361661
>Self-described incels are a thing
yes
>has nothing really to do with the way Twitterwhores use the word
the former descended from the latter by way of mockery

>>64361661
>Did you miss that entire weird little circlejerk
no, I described its course of development in that post
you're right however that I should have better described the rise of the post-irony incel
(i.e. people who claim they're being ironic incels whether they really are or not, which is what that weird subculture you mention really is)

>>64361755
I know, see above

>>64366727
>basically slinging like several .32 ACPs at someone from 100 yards but like way higher velocity
> also it's rounded balls of .32 ACP so their ballistic effect isn't as dramatic
People really underestimate how inefficient round balls are. I know I did for years and years. A 00 projective with the standard 1325fps still carries most all that velocity at 10 yards (obviously) and each projectile hits with about 174ft lbs. with 9 of them that’s devastating. But at 50 yards you’re down to 950 fps and at 100 yards it’s 767 fps. That’s only 107 and 70ft lbs respectively. I won’t act like those can’t still be lethal and that they wouldn’t hurt, but that’s a not very heavy projectile moving not very fast with piss poor sectional density. Effectiveness is marginal at best. Shotguns aren’t meant to be used that far away. Doesn’t mean they can’t be, but they aren’t good at it.

Run the numbers yourself anyone doubts me.
https://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/web_apps/rb_ballistics.html

>>64360351 (OP)
>active shooters know that shit is about to go down and have 100% knowledge of the situation
>cops only prepared for Regular Tuesday Shit and have no fucking idea who the bad guy is or what he's up to

>>64360351 (OP)
AR owners are notoriously retarded

>>64374248
The retards that buy 10.5" ARs

This video shows that ARfags screaming about pccs and shotguns being useless against ARs due to lack of stopping power at distance are full of shit. Guns kill for hundreds of feet usually.

>>64370010
IIRC that never actually happened and at most it was pot shots from a gun. That Watchmen show was pure garbage and lies.

>>64375354
Oklahoman here, most modern mainstream reports are full of shit because le heckin poor colored boys dindu nuffin wrong it was le evil "white supremacist terrorist massacre" (quoted from wikipedia lmao). It was just a good old fashioned race riot. Lots of unreliable sources.
Basically a shoeshiner negro may have got handsy with a girl, and he got arrested. Locals wanted to lynch him (not even a racist thing, locals has lynched a white man the year before), local blacks heard about it too and soon everyone was gathering at the courthouse. Somebody got into a scuffle, somebody fired a gun, and afterwards is when the actual fighting broke out along racial lines. Lots of black owned shops and businesses were burned down in the process though it was mostly due to them being on the way to the courthouse where the big protest was.

>>64375332
Compelling argument

>>64373519
in the grim parking lot of the mad butcher....

>>64360351 (OP)
I pwn noobs using AK/M4 with pump shotty and p226 all day fag

>>64366749
> a nurse

Not saying it was her fault but that part tripped me up. The #1 thing I got taught in first aid classes is to get you and your patient the fuck out of a dangerous situation, not stay there and potentially also become a victim

>>64370086
Gigabased TCD advocate

>>64376337
The difference is you are a man and 95% of women freeze up in truly stressful situations.

>>64376337
cool man you're still never gonna get paid as much as a nurse.

>>64366539
As someone who is familiar with the area you are correct
All the cops there are basically just meter maids in cars that couldn’t deal with the hooligans in pb or Little Rock
I have been shot more times when I worked as a cashier than most cops

>>64376337
by the time you drag the person out of the supermarket they might have bled out already. maybe the victim was bleeding really heavily and all the nurse could hope for was to stop the bleeding and then drag them out, or to stop the bleeding and hope that the gunman didn't come back to that area of the store. also, maybe you try to drag the person out and you run into the gunman on the way and get shot. some scenarios are dangerous and chaotic and there's no clear correct choice.

>>64374265
None of you can or will ever prove me wrong so suck my dick and fuck
Ya mudda.

>>64365056
>>64377792
Of course it's the braindead 'mudda' spammer responsible for these abhorrent posts

>>64376337
We're not taught anything relevant to this situation desu. 0 first-responder training and nothing about scene-safety or care under fire. We don't even learn basic trauma care, you just get a module online about applying pressure to bleeding things (maybe). It's all drugs, lines and tubes, bullshit theory papers. I was prior military so came in with trauma experience but civilian nurses are retarded in basically every way even if trained well because they're women and with rare exceptions need someone telling them what to do.

>>64377529
Maybe. Or maybe the nurse was just a moron. Except for the ones who work in ICU and ED, nurses tend to be absolute morons.

>>64361613
>The backbone of Italy's fighting force would like a word with you.
You mean the force who got their continent raped by France, Germany, and Spain for 50 years and ended the Italian wars by having most of their peninsula annexed by Spain? Even Machiavelli didn't attempt to refute contemporary accusations that Italians were the shittiest soldiers in the Italian Wars, worse footmen than the Spanish, Swiss, and Germans, and worse knights than the French and Spanish.

>>64360351 (OP)
Hey i saw this on youtube. Arkansas? Some fat white guy shot the place up for seemingly no reason

>>64360457
timestamp when they shoot eachother?

>>64377792
This chart is probably older than you and proves you wrong. Also, there’s no evidence you will ever accept to admit you’re wrong. Don’t lie, we know you’re retarded and stubborn.

>>64374092
It'll do alright, you'll have slightly better velocity than an M4A1, so you'll see pretty good cavitation at realistic defensive distances. M193 from a 16" barrel is what Kyle had.
>baldy nonce collapsed from one shot through the torso
>actually missed jumpkick, but he then decided to do the smart thing and run
>skaterboi took one to the heart and completely collapsed within a second
>farewell to arms had a gouge the size of a tennis ball taken out of his arm, disabling his weapon

That said, M193 really is mediocre stuff by 2020s standards, it's fine for practice and plinking but you can do a lot better like Mk.262 Mod. 1 and what not.

>>64360418

Seems like this video shows the limitations of a shotgun with buckshot.

Our fattie cop was standing out in the open at 50 yards distance. If the shooter with armed with a rifle, I'd say the odds are very good that the cop would have died rather than catching a stray buckshot to the arm.

Fattie cop was certainly bleeding a good bit from hit to the arm but it doesn't seem to my eye to be an incapacitating wound. Had the cop not totally panicked under fire they should have been able to establish fire supremacy from behind cover with their rifle and at least kept the shotgunner totally pinned down, if not land a hit that would have ended the gunfight.

Not to mention that even in podunk Arkansas your average patrol cop is going to be wearing soft armor that will stop buckshot. The combination of a large spread of buckshot and bodyarmor means a shotgun is really counting on a very lucky hit to cause an incapacitating wound.

I don't know what this video shows other than this cop was mentally and physically unfit for the moment, which is about right considering the total lack of professionalism and competency among US police.

>>64379598
>It only mission killed him not literally killed them thus you don't have to worry about shotguns past point blank
Wrong lesson learned here pal.

>>64379622
Thought experiment, do you think the shooter would have be more or less effective if they were armed with your nothing-special $500 16" AR?

>>64379660
You're not getting it, too bad.

>>64360671
>huh...don't see that every day
>*gas shuts off*
>*tops it off to get it exactly at 47 dollars*
>*lands right at 47 dollars*
>heh...still got it
>*drives away*

>>64360457
These people are all the same, typical violent nig-, erm i mean uhhh, this individual made some bad choices and his actions certainly do not reflect on any wider group of people.

>>64379622
>being out of the fight is the same is dying
How short was the bus you took to school?

>>64364748
She did though, she played possum and later is explicitly shown getting wheeled out with a freeze frame arrow saying "--> survived". All the victims were white iirc

>>64377962
I really dont want to agree with that statement but...fuck, can confirm. At least some of them are hot/them scrub pants tho amirite

>>64379622
You're missing his point. The question isn't "what happens when a guy with a shotgun and a death wish goes up against a guy with a rifle and self preservation instincts at 50yd?" because that's what's in the video and the result is pretty clear. The question is more like "who wins a 50yd shootout between rifle and shotgun when both of the combatants are high on PCP?"

If the officer had had balls of steel, he could have put rounds into the shooter's center of mass easily at that range. The shotgun did not wound him enough to mechanically stop him from returning fire. He got taken out by the psychological effects of getting shot. Psychological effects don't mean shit when there is a good chance that the person you will need to shoot is insane and will keep on fighting until he's physically unable to continue.

>>64375409
10.5 inch barrels cause 556 to fall below 2500fps, in about 45 yards. All those XM177e guys in Veitnam were just poking holes in gooks

>>64360654
>Incel was a self-adopted term
Hardly. It's a radicalization pipeline with no offramp. The stereotypical socially awkward young man used to be a character that went through self improvement arcs in media. Now they're just irredeemable villains.

>>64360351 (OP)
>How the fuck you lose to a shotgun with a rifle at 50yds.
he fires first