Thread 64381452

KH-69 intercepted by VAMPIRE APKWS
>Footage of a Ukrainian Vampire/BRAWLR SAM system shooting down a Russian Kh-69 cruise missile with a low-cost APKWS laser-guided rocket.

>Confirms that the platform, initially intended as an anti-drone weapon, can also successfully down higher-end threats.

>>64381452 (OP)
>VAMPIRE APKWS
I love these things so much. Build millions of them

the system

>>64381452 (OP)
it's got SALH guidance, so as long as you can keep the target locked on it'll track to the target. its short range (due to both the limitations of SALH homing and the Hydra 70) if anything is its primary limitation

>>64381452 (OP)
>BRAWLR? What the fuck is tha...
https://breakingdefense.com/2025/10/snc-brawlr-air-defense/
>Sierra Nevada reveals BRAWLR air defense system that’s already deployed — somewhere
>The company told Breaking Defense in an email this week that BRAWLR has intercepted more than 400 aerial threats since it was first deployed in 2023, though SNC declined to provide additional information.
>By Rachel Cohen on October 02, 2025 7:32 am
KEK

What if you coat the cruise missile in vanta black so there is no optical end point for target acquisition? I’m half shit posting but would like an answer from my esteemed colleagues. Example like this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ObM7BTe_Jrw

>>64381683
You switch to negative targeting, and target the bit of the sky where there's no light at all.

>69
Nice

>>64381693
Wow, so cool. Thanks for such a knowledgeable answer.What SALH systems do that?

>>64381452 (OP)
>One of the ISV-mounted options is the VAMPIRE Stalke
>Aside from wheeled vehicles, VAMPIRE is shown mounted in a standard container, known as VAMPIRE CASKET (Containerized Anti-drone System with Kinetic Effects Turret)
>Other variations see the system mounted atop a static tower for point defense of installations as VAMPIRE BAT (Base Anti-drone Turret).
>Finally, as Black Wake, the system is mounted aboard an uncrewed surface vessel
>L3Harris is also offering the VAMPIRE Dead Wing as an airborne counter-drone system, which integrates elements of the VAMPIRE on an AH-64 Apache attack helicopter.
>At least one projected version of the system, VAMPIRE Killcode, does away with the kinetic effectors entirely and defeats drones using an electronic warfare system.
Genuinely rolled my eyes so hard reading this
https://www.twz.com/air/entire-family-of-vampire-counter-drone-systems-unveiled
Who comes up with this shit

>>64381486
>Build millions of them
You'll get your wish, especially now that Forges de Zeebrugge are making their own version, which is compatible with existing launchers and guidance systems.

>>64381788
Good naming makes it easy to remember stuff.

>>64381683
Non shitpost answer is that the reflective emissivity of materials isn't uniform across the spectral range, and Vantablack becomes more reflective at longer wavelengths. Vantablack would work well against APKWS, for example, but wouldn't work against lasers of longer wavelength (which admittedly are not presently in common use, but would be if the technique was common), but wouldn't work at all against Hellfire Longbow at mm wavelength (1000x longer wavelength).

The main issue here is nomenclature, because between a SALH seeker head at about 1000nm that we call an IR laser, and a 1,000,000nm SARH seeker head that we call a mm wave radar is the entire IR band. At some point it stops making sense to achieve amplification and coherence by lasing and it makes sense to use other techniques like beamforming instead.

Further non shitpost answer is that vantablack will get really hot and re-emit strongly in IR, and that it, and the whole class of materials, probably doesn't stand up well to real world conditions like strong windflow and particular matter. It would be like RAM maintenance on crack.

>>64381788
I like it. It's like a bunch of sleep-deprived interns proposed an ironic try-hard name and somehow the stars aligned and no one countermanded it until all the engineers started dressing in high goth.

I also love the shitposty names the Ukies have. Sea Baby. Flamingo. Stuff like that.

>>64381788
I take it you don't do shopping or go outside, as it's hardly the worst effort in naming out there.

>>64381788
I like the double wordplay in Black Wake.

>>64381495
High end bonus tier gacha for the Technicals tech tree.

>>64381759
Modern day DSLR cameras and even smartphone cameras can already do image recognition. Painting your missile high contrast black only makes it easier.

>>64381683
>>64381839
The way easier counter for this is to swap APKWS to command guidance. APKWS being a kit and the expensive bits of command guidance being housed on the launcher (and with the processing power afforded to systems these days, I reckon any modifications would be trivial), the swap would be relatively inexpensive. You take a hit in terms of Pk, but it counters anything like that.
APKWS II is also planned to use IR seekers in addition to SALH

>>64381885
Enlighten a guy whose first language isn't English. What does Black Wake mean/reference?

>>64381788
So that's what Mark Rein-Hagen does these days.

>>64381788
This is fucking kino, ngl

>>64381788
Half the incentive to be an research nerd is to come up with the dumbest names that you can get approved so that you get to laugh your ass off whenever you watch someone gives a speech about it and has to say it with a straight face. If this one annoys you, don't go looking at what they name half of the newfound species these days, or any other cutting edge scientific field.

>>64381927
Wake is a type of funeral procession, as well as boat wake

>>64381927

"Black Wake" can mean a boat's wake since it's on an unmanned boat, or a funeral wake to fit in with the vampire theming.

>>64381908
So none.

>>64381979
>>64381980
Thanks guys.

>>64381919
>You take a hit in terms of Pk, but it counters anything like that.
The hit is that an MCLOS weapon requires uninterrupted vision from shooter to target and connection from shooter to munition. You lose collaborative engagement and reduce crew survival.
>>64381908
No collaborative engagement or multiple target engagement. Very immature technology.

>>64381788
brought to you big big tiddy goth gf gang

>>64382113
>uninterrupted vision from shooter to target and connection from shooter to munition
the anti-air application of APKWS is mostly uninhibited by these restrictions, it's a short ranged munition and the guidance sensor is on the launcher regardless. All VAMPIRE systems have the launcher and sensor collocated. Given the short range of the system, using off-board designators is going to severely limit your fields of fire regardless.
>MCLOS
who said anything about MCLOS, I'm talking about ACLOS, the FLIR balls on VAMPIRE have automatic tracking.

>>64381495
I have the Tacoma, I just need that system.

>>64381759
Beamriders.

>>64382339
Beamriders are different from SALH, two different technologies. SALH looks forward, beamriders look back. That being said CLOS via radio command is usually trivial to implement these days (though trivial implementations are conversely trivial to jam).

>>64381495
shit's so spartan, love it

I still prefer my LNs, and more importantly, my JAVs naming scheme.

>>64381452 (OP)
UHHHH COST BROS???? DID THE TABLES JUST TURN ON US?

>>64381495
That's very pole-ish.

>>64381683
The video you posted is misguiding, It's not that black in real life. It's easy to fool people with videos if you know how to mess with the dynamic range of the camera (or rather format and displaying device). I have studied a number of black paints. Yes, those kinds of black are quite black in the visual spectrum, but they are bad paints in all other categories. Grade of blackness was very dependent on correct application. Zero abrasion resistance, will get gray spots when touched lightly. Impossible to clean even fingerprints without messing it up further. Also, reflectivity isn't uniform over all angles. Good luck optimizing a paint for every angle.
>>64381839
Quality post.

>>64381788
love my backronyms, simple as

>>64383302
"Apackwuhs" I say this.

>>64383312
APKWS isn't a backronym or am I missing something?

Do you have to keep it on target yourself? Or does it lock on

>>64383321
Your right, it's just how I read it.

>>64383324
Reading the wikipedia page could help.
APKWS is an extention kit to make 70mm/2.75in Hydra rockets laser guided. Vampire (Vehicle-Agnostic Modular Palletized ISR Rocket Equipment) consists of a sensor ball and a four-barreled APKWS rocket launcher that can be mounted on trucks.

>>64381495
How much further does the Technical Tech Tree go?

How is a pickup truck with nigger-rigged rockets that were initially only for A2G use, more capable of shooting down VLO ALCMs than Pantsir with purpose-built missiles and guns?
Is Russian air defence really that bad?

>>64382382
Its got a real "used in serious wars" look about it

>>64383362
forbidden technology hasn't been unlocked yet

>>64383362
tomahawk launchers?

>>64383112
The penny has flipped

>>64381788
You'd think they hired the French to name it.

>>64384243
The dividend is in the dividend.

>>64383312
What you saying about ap kwiss?

>>64383362
ICBM

>>64384267
The ruble has fallen.

>>64383519
Pantsir uses CLOS guidance, half-rectification guidance specifically, which is extremely sensitive to errors in range measurements of both the missile and target. It's also a longer ranged system. This is just my educated guess but the presence of jamming and stealth, the laser rangefinder isn't accurate enough at range and the missile telemetry's data might be significantly degraded, causing poor system performance. The guidance law also generally performs poorly at the extremes of the missile's performance envelope.
APKWS uses SALH which allows it to use proportional navigation and doesn't require range data, making it fairly robust.
Can't just swap Pantsir to proportional navigation either, the missile has no seeker, so any error in measurements would get even more amplified, half-rectification is the best they can do

>>64384269
He's saying there's a pack (of) kiwis after you

>>64385012
What's this about packed seaweed after tea?

>>64385012
What's this about packed seaweed after two?

>>64385005
>the missile has no seeker
Wait, what? Seriously? So the vehicle has to control guidance the entire time? How many targets can it track?

>>64385715
Pantsir operator is seeker
You are the seeker
Seek

>>64383597
Kino

>>64383561
I could see the goofy neck tonk idea being legitimately useful for small man sized UGVs with an old surplus RPD or something on it so it can peek corners and look over cover.

>>64381495
>everything returns to trvck

>>64390588
based

>>64381452 (OP)
>>64381495
Fucking magnificient.

>>64384308
Soon the trade volumes will be posted and everyone will short everything.

>>64381495
>>64383362
>>64383597
>>64390588
Aight boys, where to?

>>64381674
>Rachel Cohen
With Jews, you Win!
>your free money, sir

>>64385005
>half-rectification
Can you explain what that means?

>>64392222
You know when your peepee is not yet hard but isn't soft either?

>>64392047
Tracks? Is a half-track a technical or is that it's own hybrid tree?

>>64382022
Adding to what the other anons said, black can also mean evil or unholy (a gathering of witches is called a black sabbath, devil-worshippers hold black masses, curses are black magic). A "black wake" isn't a traditional term, but when it's used in the same sentence as "vampire", it's natural to assume it means a funeral for the undead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_(ceremony)

>>64392222
It's CLOS (missile is commanded to try and stay on the line between you and the target) except the line gets shifted by half the lead required to hit the target. (So instead of pointing right at the target, it points at where the target will be when the missile is halfway to the target relative to its current location).

>>64385005
Not to disagree with you overall anon but lasers cannot be jammed (vs something static in principle you could throw up enough physical dust/smoke to obscure it but that won't work for a missile/bomb you're throwing at enemy territory at speed and altitude), nor does any typical stealth have any impact (again in theory you could have a coating that'd mess with certain wavelengths, but the practical considerations are many, the bypasses are many, and it's not actually a thing). It's just that lasers (and even more so the return 'signal') don't have great range in the bottom 10s of miles of our atmosphere though and of course by definition are purely line of sight, and are going to be pretty sensitive to implementation and the lasing platform.

Pantsir still seems to suck, but it's not just laser either. It does have target acquisition&tracking radar that is susceptible to jamming and stealth, and probably important in terms of getting ready to actually make the optoelectronic part at all useful (delta-v is very limited here so being seconds late may mean you've already lost your chance).

Honestly as a [modern russia] 2012 design a lot of it probably just comes down to it being a piece of a shit with corruption-riddled everything and worthless crew training on top. I'm sure the paper specs are all lies, and it would be utterly unsurprising after what we've seen in this war if the problems are fractal top to bottom in every aspect. Like, who knows if the missiles are even remotely all to spec at all, maybe they like, literally don't turn very well or something fucking retarded we don't even think of.

>>64381495
There testing a bunch of shit like thus right now at WSMR

>>64392431
>except the line gets shifted by half the lead required
>half
Doesn't that require infinity calculation speed if you want to actually hit the target? I don't understand why you would compute for a half lead instead of a complete lead or even a 1.05 lead to make up for calculation time loss

>>64392680
Full lead has the missile over-correcting for maneuvering targets most of the time, half reduces energy expenditure. No it doesn't require infinite calculation speed, the missile compensates for the angular velocity of the LoS for one, so it just ends up pulling a bit more g's near the target. Generally the miss distance is acceptable (when no measurement inaccuracies exist).

>>64383362
only time will tell

>>64392488
When I say "jamming and stealth" I was referring to Pantsir not being able to use radar to range. Laser rangefinders suffer in terms of accuracy at range, plus the environmental factors you speak of. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Also you can absolutely jam a laser by blinding it with IRCM (at least for most IR based rangefinder lasers)

>>64382382
I'm a little surprised they didn't give it a .50-cal linked to the EOTS. Ground threats exist too, and even vehicles that aren't meant to be on the literal frontline still need to be able to protect themselves against at least dismounted infantry. It's not like the Vampire system takes up a lot of room or anything, so why not?

>>64383362
>How much further does the Technical Tech Tree go?
Low-Earth Orbit

>>64392047
It needs a 12.75-inch torpedo launcher for dealing with submarines.

>>64394660
I'll give it my 12.75 inch torpedo to deal with those slutty sub marines

>>64394556
It's meant to be a cheap as fuck spammable system for low cost defense against low capability threats. Slapping a RWS on it is textbook requirement creep

>>64394788
There's already an EOTS and a traversing pedestal mount. What extra cost is there? A mounting bracket?

>>64394930
Completely different firing solution required. You need a different EVERYTHING if you also want it to shoot leas.

>>64381452 (OP)
Helmettard coping hard in his basement

>>64381495
It's truly magical. This thing was proposed way before the war but had no buyers because there was at the time no foreseeable need. It's almost the Hawker Hurricane of our time.

>>64394930
Pedestal isn't designed for the loads and vibrations that come with firing a .50, nor the precision and stability required. It was also not designed for the weight of a .50 cal. Since it's mounted high on a truck, stabilization is not trivial and the actuators are likely not fast enough. Firing solution is trivial IDK why someone replied about that, that's just code-work, but the platform was not designed to fire a .50 cal.

>>64395004
>tfw you have to approach the guy you blew off years ago to ask for help and you can see the "I told you so" bubbling under the surface as you explain the exact problem he warned you about

>>64383362
Would mounting a siege howitzer on one of these still be considered a technical (if only by technicality)

>>64395497
Eh not really
I'm sure everyone understands the changing faces of war, and the unique situation that has emerged in Ukraine
L3Harris would be only too pleased to be snide, frankly

>>64381452 (OP)
>VAMPIRE CASKET
>VAMPIRE BAT
Now we know they're just having fun.

But yeah, good system. Cheap, reasonably effective, and doesn't rely on experimental and untested technology.

>>64381788
It's a sales trick. The dumber the name the easier it is to remember.

>>64381683
Vanta black absorbs too much light, heats up, and ends up emitting black body IR. APKWS switch to heat seeking.

>>64394556
>Ground threats exist too
Not where this is deployed.
It's portable air defence, one step up from MANPADs.

Expect these to be around strategic targets and civilian infrastructure and a couple at air fields etc.
Shooting people is the job of base security or even security guards and the opfor there are petty criminals or deluded idiots.

>>64392047
Put a porcupine on the hood like a V8 intake.

>>64395719
>Would mounting a siege howitzer on one of these still be considered a technical (if only by technicality)
It would be the Dark Souls boss of technicals but I think it counts.

>>64383597
This isn't a technical because it's a military vehicle specifically designed to have modular weapons and shit slapped on it.

>>64398658
The joke is that there's nothing that's really stopping you from slapping the launch tube onto a F150, anon.

>>64394660
>>64398579
>>64392047

>>64398718
>porcupine on the hood
warcrime
bridge too far
cruel and unusual

>>64398718
I think it needs some Mad Max bomb lances strapped to the front.
Also a student driver sticker.

>>64383519
Mote like russian soldiers aren't very good
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/old_soviet_design_polish_upgrade_ukraines_s_125_newa_sc_system_may_be_defeating_ballistic_threats-16032.html

>>64381979
remember the autism gene being called the sonic hedgehog gene?
Peak scientific lolz

>>64399402
iirc there were a bunch of fruit fly genes names after vegetables because when people induced mutations in those genes the fruit flies got real retarded, cabbage gene, rutabaga gene, etc

>>64381908
>Modern day DSLR cameras and even smartphone cameras can already do image recognition. Painting your missile high contrast black only makes it easier.

Well yeah, but this missile is guided by laser light reflected off the target, so your post is completely irrelevant.

>>64392488
>but lasers cannot be jammed

You can "jam" laser reflection guided muntions by spraying water mist in the air. Laser beam riders cannot be jammed.

APKWS is a nigger rigged emergency solution because America cannot provide any more stinger missiles.

>>64381452 (OP)
Should try taking video with DJI drone or something instead of HATO technology so we could actually see something next time.

>>64399360
>student driver sticker
kek

>>64392047
>>64399360

>>64399360
If you're in the JDM Jihad Trukk you'll want this

>>64402742
Beautiful.

>>64381788
kek dudes got a hardon for vampires since van helsing thats a given

>>64394556
Redundant. The rockets can be laser guided into ground targets. Laser guidance was originally designed for ground targets after all.

>>64381683
>what's bean riding

>>64402742
>audible giggling in the back of class

>>64398718
>>64398786
>>64402742

>>64404541
>what's bean riding
It's a cholo version of a drive-by.

>>64402742
Next add chariot wheel spikes.

>>64402742
ngmi without a cow catcher

>>64405101
Reminds me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTCGqew6zig

>>64405110
>>64405306

>>64405323
Yes, very similar devices.
One just explodes at depth and the other on impact.
They're probably not the same body but they could be made that way with different fuzes.
There's a slight difference in launch, the naval launcher sticks the mortar on a spike and that m8 barrage launcher uses rails but those are design decisions.

>>64405384
Nice.

>>64405384
Now we're getting somewhere. I think we need a coexist bumper sticker too.

>>64381788
I'm getting Gundam SEED flashbacks

>>64395719
I'm imaging a giant stubby seige mortar on the back like a Karl-Gerät, that'd be great.

>>64407313
It also needs someone to figure out how many 122mm rocket tubes you could put in the bucket, because the worlds biggest MRL

>>64407422
The TOS-1 would have nothing on the secondaries from that when an fpv hit the tubes.

>>64406981
Gundam SNEED

>>64407826
The ol TOS would be nearly extinct in the wild by now. I've not seen one blow up very recently and its usually visible from a whole other hemisphere away when they do.
But, imagine

A throw weight of 100 tonnes of warheads

>>64396357
Then use slightly less vantablack

>>64405384
ride eternal

>>64381452 (OP)
surely more wunderwaffe will fix all of america's internal problems.

seriously though, with all of these laser weapons and countermeasures we're going to end up with dumb artillery and battleships again.