Thread 64408972

It might be over.

New company has made a microwave cannon that fries electronics from miles away.

It knocks drones out of the sky with ease but what does this mean also.

Fighter planes, ground based electronic systems and even your rifles eotec are dependent on circuit boards aswell. Is warfare going back to being mechanical if this is rolled out.

Also, what could the effects be on the human body. Would its use on ground forces be considered a war crime?

Buy an ad schlomo

>What is the inverse square law
I hate dronefags as much as the next anon but this will be limited to point defense SHORAD.

>>64408994
This

>defeated by 0.1mm of aluminum tape
ISHYGDDT

>>64409024
[Citation Needed]

>>64408994
What about a MASER? A laser but microwaves instead of visible light.
I doubt they'll be as power as their Godzilla movie counterparts but maybe they'll be able to fry a drone if made powerful enough.

>>64409024
>thirdie moment
HPM sends surface waves crawling along the skin of amateur cope attempts at Faraday cages, induces eddy currents in the motor spindles of drones, and other graduate level electrical engineering oddities. That's part of its appeal. As a guideline, if the cope is something a midwit Baofeng collector on 4chan could come up with in 10 minutes of google and GPT research, it's zero protection against HPM. This is Indian ghost shirt dance tier cope.

>>64409179
Mentally disabled people like you should abstain from posting useless schizoslop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r0-mJWS9AQ

>>64409281
Are you serious right now

>>64408972 (OP)
>New company has made a microwave cannon that fries electronics from miles away.
Correction it doesn't usually fry electronics.
Energies needed to disrupt electronics (CPUs) are about 1000 times less then needed to permanently damage them. HPM usually just makes CPUs to reboot (in context of the flying drone its a kill).
Kill range is ~30 times less than reboot range.

>>64409290
For starters is more kw/m2 than the meme of the OP.
Yes, and kys.
Pic unrel

>>64409301
>it's more kw/m2
That's not even the issue here, it's that you obviously don't know how microwaves propogate and why a phone wrapped in foil in a microwave is in no way representative of a drone with a foil bottom on it

>>64409387
>thinks it would need a surge protector
It's not about inducing current surges

>>64408972 (OP)
What's the per unit procurement cost?

>>64409361
>implying a transmitter illuminating a shielded object is different than an object inside the cooking chamber
The only thing that matters is power density on target surface, otherwise you can provide the detailed explanation of why it would be different :^)


> a phone wrapped in foil in a microwave is in no way representative of a drone with a foil bottom on it
It's a worse case scenario than a cope illuminator. But you're right, you can't scam DoD's boomers for million if not billion with a “Microwave Oven”.

>>64409415
Show me a way to completely incapsulate a drone in foil without compromising it's function and I'll eat my hat. That's the crux of it

>>64409281
>64409301
>64409296
>>64409387
>>64409415
Dennis, why does your mongoloid serbian mentally ill alcoholic literal schizo ass try to act like you're an electrical engineer when you didn't even graduate high school and live off welfare in Germany?
>>64409445
You're arguing with Dennis, a 90IQ mongoloid serb that's a mentally ill schizo alcoholic welfare leech.

>>64409409
The contract is for 5.5 million but that's for all of the units and services of course. Nothing to indicate unit cost that I saw, but at a 5.5mil contract for all the expeditionary units it's not much

>>64409445
So you can't show it, curious
Btw, did you see the microwave door?, you can literally see through it, curious isn't it? that video shows someone RECORDING all that. Guess what, that's your answer (for dipshits like you)...

>>64409473
>Dipshit comes with his racist bullshittery avoiding the topic in question.

>>64409477
show me a way to completely incapaulate a drone in foil without conpromising it's functionality and I will eat my hat. No, a chicken wire bubble isn't going to cut it

>>64409473
>>64409482
Holy kek it really is that fat little trog

>>64409483
You just do it, including the motors (the shaft goes through the shielding).
Thankfully there're optic fiber drones in use that simplifies my point and avoids a time wasting plausible related to comms.
So as I said.
KYS.

>>64409482
Racist? Serbian isn't a race. Stop crying, Dennis, you 90IQ mentally ill mongoloid alcoholic that never graduated high school, live off welfare in Germany, and have a literal hard wrangler that visits you daily because you can't function as a normal adult. You're the very definition of a narcissistic /pol/ incel failure at life. You should stay on /int/ and /pol/ with the rest of your loser kind. Now, fuck off with your brainlet takes.

>>64409490
>fiber optics
>having anything to do with it
It's the electronics onboard, not the method of communication. And you can't "just" shield the whole thing, either it's completely incapaulated with an electrically bonded medium or it's effectively meaningless. It will STILL get hot and cause arcing as well, once it's close enough to do so

>>64409486
Yeah, I've had this argument with him before, and the give away was this post >>64408994 and >>64409301 and >>64409024.

>>64409482
when will you finally touch a woman other than your mum, Dennis?

>>64409505
>Dennis posts exactly like warriortard
COINKIDINK?!

>>64409501
>It's the electronics onboard, not the method of communication
Here's a retard's proof example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r0-mJWS9AQ
2 cellphones turned on and completely unaffected.
>either it's completely incapaulated with an electrically bonded medium or it's effectively meaningless.
You can, and even with gaps, a more nuanced argument would include attenuation, cutoff freq and gaps geometry but it's obvious that you can't into EM101 even.

>>64408972 (OP)
But can it pop this

>>64409505
I'm only one of those (mods can know if I'm lying), and you're derailing this thread with retardation.
That aside no nuclear EMP were more interesting even if the device self-destroyed it in a few nanoseconds to microseconds. But that's is too on-topic for your liking.

>>64408972 (OP)
It main weakness are
>expensive
>requires fuck ton of power
>high maintenance

>>64409515
A commercial microwave isn't and never will be a HPM weapon. Post research papers of aluminum foil wrapped cellphones and drones surviving pulses from an actual HPM.

>>64409517
>this baby can pop a bag of popcorn
>in 12 seconds

>>64409526
Sure you are Dennis .Who's to say your no life ass isn't posting on your welfare laptop and cellphone like you've been caught doing before?

>>64409482
Lmfao I would've assumed the other guy was the schizo but he can't even deny that it's him

>>64409176
i mean then you run in to similar issues as lasers (heat, target acquisition and tracking)

>>64409542
Except they are, at least as a simple source for HPM, 800 W in a tiny and cheap package relatively resilient to its own radiated power. A miracle of basic science and manufacturing engineering of the 20th century.
>0.8kW in a 0.5 sqm chamber, 1.6 kW/m2 of pleasure.
You can search for the HPM power density btw, but spoiler: mil papers describe those system in the order of ~1kW/m2...
HPM isn't a 'hard-kill' method and hardening isn't even hard if you take HPM into account...

>>64409562
forgot the pic

>>64409562
Except they aren't. Now post these papers.

>>64409575
Do your part if you gonna shill a meme.

>>64409577
're*

>>64409577
Post those papers you supposedly read.

>>64408972 (OP)
Yeah, some guy on YT showed how to do that a couple years ago. Literally a microwave oven and a waveguide antenna made of sheet metal. Autonomous and fiber controlled drones could be shielded.

>>64408972 (OP)
Leonidas lost and died in his first battle. Does it fry itself after one use or something?

>>64409532
Why would it be high-maintenance?
The other stuff is at least partially true (though arguably the upfront cost of a solid-state DEW could outweigh buying interceptor missiles on a long enough timespan) but I don't see how a fuckoff huge magnetron would be particularly difficult to maintain.

>>64408994
For purposes of the inverse square law, a collimated beam effectively has a point of origin far behind the actual source. Example:
>1 kw/cm2 at the source
>effective origin 100 km behind the source
>target 1 km in front of the source
>intensity at the target is 1 kw/cm2 * 1002 / 1012.

>>64409517
>do not use popcorn butoon
but it's popcorn!

>>64409653
It is pushing a fuck ton of power at the limits of what circuits can take. A lot of those circuit might only be good for a 100 microwave shots before they become unstable and blow up like an old Samsung galaxy phone.

>>64409667
shit ass 4chan turned my exponent 2s into regular 2s

>>64409532
It's not really expensive and it doesn't require that much power. High maintenance remains to be seen, but there is no reason to assume it would be. It uses solid state components (and vacuum tubes) with redundant systems according to their website. Radars and radios last a long time while transmitting constantly or near constantly

>>64409676
>It is pushing a fuck ton of power at the limits of what circuits can take.
Proof? They're no different than AESA/PESA radars.
>A lot of those circuit might only be good for a 100 microwave shots
Again, what's your proof besides WAGing it?

>>64408972 (OP)
>what does this mean
Faraday cages will be added to drones, fighters metal skin will work as a Faraday cage without modification.

>>64409490
OP here, this guy has no idea what he is talking about. Fibre or radio, it's falling out of the sky as it is stalling the electronics.

The thing is already covered in metal, it's a drone. The guys making this know it won't get beaten by that. You think it's simple but it isn't. I don't fully understand it either but I understand it enough to know that you don't know.

https://www.epirusinc.com/electronic-warfare

That's the link to their site. I have no idea what price per unit is, Idk if you can cover a drone in chicken wire to stop this, I don't know why that guy knows that guys government name and that he knows he's Serbian, I don't know if it can pop, pop corn, I don't know if it will only last 100 shots. OKAY, I was interested in something becuase it looked cool, but you fucking autistic retards have to ruin everything.

>>64409506
>when will you finally touch a woman other than your mum, Dennis?
Prostitution is legal in Germany and there are hooker malls you can window shop until you find one you like.
Getting laid (for money) is something even he can do, assuming he has 200euro or whatever to spend.

>>64410100
Now I want to hire a prostitute for an hour to pray with me during adoration.

>>64410060
>I don't know why that guy knows that guys government name and that he knows he's Serbian
Because he's a well known lolcow.

>>64409562
>HPM isn't a 'hard-kill'
Looks pretty hard kill, to me.

>>64409562
Without a tuned and controlled reflector and focuser apparatus all you have is a magnetron blasting out radiation harmful to life to anything within a few meters.
Without a tuned, especially narrow aperture reflector allowing for less than 2-3* of beam pattern you have at best a few dozen meters of fry power if one were to use a simpleconcave dish such as an old satellite receiver.

I can imagine an anon who is on the schizoretard level of Alaskanon/laseranon frankenstein'ing together four kilowatt microwave magnetrons, building a shitty dish out of alu foil, and melting 100 people's eyes when he tries to, as a test/prank down some kid's quadcopter and the thought does not make me happy.

>>64410422
> anything within a few meters.
I'm talking about a Microwave Oven, all the radiated power is constrained to the magnetron-waveguide-cooking chamber, not a free space emissor. You completely missed the point if it's so simple, retard.

>>64410339
Except that it isn't.
HPM only tries to exploit a certain vulnerabilities that exists in a few systems, but as weapon it's soft kill that obstructs the normal working of a system (if it isn't hardened at all).
It's less hard than a laser and both are less hard-kill than a kinetic weapon that will always cause some damage (regardless if it neutralizes) if it hits.
It can't even cause macroscopic thermal damage like lasers.

>>64410220
They will probably tell you no and take your money anyway

>>64410422
>I can imagine an anon who is on the schizoretard level of Alaskanon/laseranon frankenstein'ing together four kilowatt microwave magnetrons, building a shitty dish out of alu foil,
You don't remember the schizo that made a microwave deathbeam machine in the back of his van to kill Obama?

>>64410593
>Except that it isn't.
Except that Narrow Band (NB) front door coupling will fry the electronics. You're just an idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about.

>>64410659
I didn't involve myself in anything but doing drugs, selling drugs, playing video games, and fucking party sluts during that period of my youth. So no.

>>64410670
>implying I would waste time arguing about nuances
I purposely mentioned a system that doesn't have "front doors" >>64409490 to avoid wasting time with retards like you.
KYS.

>>64410060
>government name
nigger detected

>>64410690
>that doesn't have "front doors"
If it has a parting line seem, it has a front door. You are an absolute midwit that vastly overestimates your intelligence, like most narcissistic terminally online failure incels. Much easier to cope that way.

>>64411020
Being obstinately retarded will not change reality.
I guess you need to watch this video again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r0-mJWS9AQ
But maybe you can't understand what's going on. In which case any argument is a waste of words and you should simply FO.

>>64408972 (OP)
basic shielding will reduce it to hundreds of meters, then SEAD tactics are possible by attacking from 3 directions offset by 90 degrees

>>64411174
>basic shielding will
Based on what?

>he posted it again
Show me a way to completely incapaulate a drone in foil without compromising it's capabilities and I'll eat my hat
>challenge level: impossible (for dennis)

>>64411379
years of experience in EFT testing, think kV pulses coupled into cabling

>>64411150
>A commercial microwave that isn't tuned to couple with the cellphone (i.e. wideband) is the same as a pulsed narrowband HPM in the literal gigawatt range
You're literally too stupid and arrogant to converse with. You're too narcissistic to admit you're not as intelligent as you think you are. That's your mind's only way to cope with you being a terminally online low IQ failure at life, though. You have zero idea about what you're trying to talk about and claim expertise in.

>>64411405
Where did you do this testing at?

>>64411450
Lets see
1. post a gigawatt-class GaN transmitter, retard. (inb4 relativistic vacuum tubes aren't GaN)
2."narrow band" something irrelevant* for "back door" effect when there's no antennas or receiver (I limited my point to OF drones to avoid wasting time with retards like you >>64409490). You're trying to to cause damage/problems by inducing a surge, thermal damage or noise directly in the circuits, a bandwidth of 50 MHz or 1 KHz is irrelevant, of course you're free to explain it why would exist a 'brown note', retard. And gaps work like high-pass filters, bandwidth is irrelevant to make your retarded-headcanon-HPM more effective.
3. you don't even understand that the thing that matters is POWER DENSITY, dumbfuck
You're worse than an austronesian cargo cult believer, you have access to the knowledge in your language but you still post like a dogmatic believer.

>>64411514
https://dsiac.dtic.mil/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Webinar-HPM-DEWs-Tatum-1.pdf

>>64411532
And that even answer the point 1?
Pasting a pdf will not save you, dipshit. Fucking imbecile.

>>64411514
>post a gigawatt-class GaN transmitter, retard. (inb4 relativistic vacuum tubes aren't GaN)
>In 2003 a 400-pound device was capable of producing 20 gigawatts of power, and in 2016, several HPMs in development could create terawatts of energy.11
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD1107488.pdf
Suck my dick you retarded nigger. Also, it's Fiber Optic, and "why would exist a 'brown note'" isn't English.

>>64411546
See: >>64411558
>And that even answer the point 1?
Learn English, you retarded fucking Mongoloid.

>>64411558
Citation ultimately leads to:
https://web.archive.org/web/20130318062100/http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/airchronicles/cc/apjemp.html

>>64411558
>>In 2003 a 400-pound device was capable of producing 20 gigawatts of power, and in 2016, several HPMs in development could create terawatts of energy.11
Where's the mention of GaN dipshit? I purposely said " relativistic vacuum tubes aren't GaN" because google-kiddies like you can't into search and citations. Dig deeper and show those results with GaN dipshit.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_fiber
So OF isn't OF. You see dipshit, moving the goalpost will not save you, imbecile.

>>64411565
>being this offtopic in a discussion.
Self-filtered.

>>64411579
Both devices already mentioned and unrelated to GaN
>>64409526
>>64411514
You failed to answer 1.

>>64411584
>Where's the mention of GaN dipshit?
Where did I ever mention GaN you reatrded fuck?
>So OF isn't OF. You see dipshit, moving the goalpost will not save you, imbecile.
It's Fiber Optics, you imbecile.
>>64411584
>MUH OFF TOPIC
Going to cry to the jannies because you got BTFO? KEK. Just like the coward faggot you usually are.

>>64411587
>Where did I ever mention GaN you reatrded fuck?
Then why are you even trying to reply this >>64411514
Are you that retarded?

>inb4 why did I limit the question to GaN
It's because the PoS of the OP is using GaN and I'll not waste time turning a thread into a general. GFYS dipshit.
Go to correct the wiki.

>jannies
I know you're functionally retarded, but if that post only mentions "muh english" instead of addressing any point then I'll comment about the irrelevancy of that post, as a foot note though. Meanwhile this retarded post >>64411587 is trying to be on topic with the discussion even if you're incapable of basic reasoning. Imbecile.

>>64411587
>>64411585
Why does an HPM have to be GaN based? Way to move the goalpost, faggot. I said:
>>64411450
>A commercial microwave that isn't tuned to couple with the cellphone (i.e. wideband) is the same as a pulsed narrowband HPM in the literal gigawatt range
Please point to where I mentioned GaN. Also, China, Russia, Britian, France, etc have all developed HPMs, too. Are you saying you know more than the all the militaries of the world? They should just hire you, as you're obviously the smartest person in the world and would save them billions!
https://www.airandspaceforces.com/air-forces-thor-drone-swarm-demo/
https://www.rtx.com/raytheon/what-we-do/integrated-air-and-missile-defense/phaser-high-power-microwave
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/MORFIUS.html
https://www.jedonline.com/2023/01/24/high-power-microwave-systems-getting-much-much-closer-to-operational-status/

>Counter-electronics High-powered Advanced Missile Project (CHAMP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsQWWQFQWkA
https://militaryembedded.com/radar-ew/sensors/raytheon-emp-missile-tested-by-boeing-usaf-research-lab


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHCe9z44jFs

>>64411608
>It's because the PoS of the OP is using GaN
Just like China's HPM?

>>64411608
>Imbecile
You sure love screaming that word like a parrot with a negative verbal IQ don't you?

>>64411612
>Why does an HPM have to be GaN based?
>Please point to where I mentioned GaN
Because the topic is the the OP >>64408972 (OP), that's why >>64411514 mentions GaN, that company specifically used GaN in their PR for multiple reasons besides just GaN (muh agile beams and all that), if you can't reply that post then just do your usual cope dumps taken from your archive of dumps.

>Way to move the goalpost,
Not interested in your retarded gaslighting.

>link dump
>trying to turn the thread in a general
Save your time, if you can't give a REASON, relevance, and detail of each citation then it isn't a citation, it's a waste of time that would be insta-turned off in any (even semi formal) discussion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document_dump

. Also, China, Russia, Britian, France,
And how is that relevant to retards with nil understanding and mischaracterizing the topic of RF shielding? I purposely restricted the question of a drone without antennas and that's why I posted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r0-mJWS9AQ as retard-proof demo. HPM is just a new layer for the EW, not a magic drone-be-gone device that dogmatic retards believe in. More than that would be turning this stupid thread into a general

>>64411652
>still going
>still thanks a commercial microwave is equal to a military grade HPM
>autistically wants to focus on GaN because he knows he's wrong about gigawatt HPMs yet posts a commercial microwave that uses a 800w magnetron
>a 800w magnetron designed to heat food, and not tuned to couple with drones
>Thinks this proves anything beside showing he knows nothing about HPMs

Also, answer the question: Are you calling China's GaN based HPM a POS too?
https://www.zona-militar.com/en/2025/01/27/the-chinese-armed-forces-conducted-firing-tests-with-their-new-high-power-microwave-weapon-system-the-hurricane-3000/

>>64411652
>I purposely restricted the question of a drone without antennas
They still have sensors and electric motors that cannot be shielded, which act as back-door coupling devices. Furthermore, they are covered with multiple pieces of plastic "fairings" that have seams, which, again, act as back-door coupling channels. See: >>64411532. I see you didn't even try to read what I posted. I understand, though, you don't want to read anything that BTFO of your retarded fantasy cope. KEK.

>>64411704
>keeps trying to force a sprawling even when the other side shows no interest in losing focus, repeatedly
>more gaslight
>still fails to actually GET TO THE POINT
Keep digging retard because I'm not interested in expanding this into a general with retards like you that can't into the basics of a discussion or the scope of each thing.
Btw, I'm not the only anon ITT, obsessed dipshit.

>>64411737
>They still have sensors
Like a camera amirite?
That's why I posted this for 6th time because retards can't understand reality...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r0-mJWS9AQ
Don't you understand why? use your brain imbecile.

>>64411704
Very impleassive. Vely ching khu lung

>>64411759
I'm gonna post this*

>>64411737
> didn't even try to read what I posted. I understand,
I don't need to read something your posted now because I did it years ago including more literature than just a simple webinar..., retard.
See page 15, search for "Out-of-band" and this (>>64409562): You can search for the HPM power density btw, but spoiler: mil papers describe those system in the order of ~1kW/m2...
Do you understand that you're a fucking clown? KYS

>>64411759
And that's why I posted this for the 100th time:
>>64411450
>A commercial microwave that isn't tuned to couple with the cellphone (i.e. wideband) is the same as a pulsed narrowband HPM in the literal gigawatt range
>>64411704
>autistically wants to focus on GaN because he knows he's wrong about gigawatt HPMs yet posts a commercial microwave that uses a 800w magnetron
>a 800w magnetron designed to heat food, and not tuned to couple with drones
>Thinks this proves anything beside showing he knows nothing about HPMs
>>64411759
>Don't you understand why?
Do you understand why you can't cover your whole drone in aluminum foil - especially if you're controlling it via a fiber optic cable? How is your drone sensing the surrounding environment? How is it able to sense threats, ID them, and then track them to engage them? How are you flying and controlling your drone via fiber optical cable with no sensors? Use your brain, imbecile. It will be as blind, deaf, dumb, and as useless as you are...
>>64411770
>including more literature than just a simple webinar
Then post them, please.
>..., retard
Look! It finally learned a new word! I knew you could do it, Polly the parrot!
>See page 15
See page 12, you fucking clown.


>>64411766
Answer the question: Are you calling China's GaN based HPM a POS too?

>>64409445
I don't think full 360 protection is possible, but front end protection is surely possible if using fixed wing drones with jet propulsion systems?

>>64409176
Same difference.
You're still limited by the atmosphere soaking up the energy.

>>64408972 (OP)
Ok, very cool, drones obsolete.
What happens when you point this thing at people? Does this constitute a warcrime?

>>64409176
MASERS are used as very stable sources of microwaves (see atomic clock), not for high power because there're better and simpler ways to generate high power microwaves.

>>64413828
If the reports of Russia deploying choking and nerve agents are true I don't think adhering to the rules of war is on the table anymore.

>>64411752
You are the only one making brain dead posts, thoughever, dennis

>>64410332
That's a FAS man child.

>>64408972 (OP)
>Also, what could the effects be on the human body.
Cancer.

>>64413955
That is a feature, not a bug

>>64413828
the human body doesn't appreciate being microwaved. but if you're in range to zap infantry, they're in range to put holes in your fancy machine

>>64413955
How? It's non ionizing

>>64409490
Holy shit you are fucking retarded
Serbniggers are so fucking stupid, are you also a blacked loving faggot like mandick?

>>64413955
Anon, when you're getting cooked by a few dozen kilowatts of microwaves, cancer should be the last thing on your mind.

how can you target this against fast approaching drones from unexpected directions, also quadcopters can drop mortars on you outside of eyeball range
thoughts?

>>64417588
It's a phased array. You can target it in a full 90 degree cone (which is also on a mechanical turntable) or do 1degree pencil beams at the speed of the computer's clock cycle.
Going by the DOD (excuse me DOW haha) powerpoints it's about 1-2km range, and since quadcopters have to fly directly over something at about 150-200 feet to drop on them, while standard Western anti-drone radars can spot a quadcopter 10-15km away, good luck.

>>64417620
I mean how are you going to acquire and queue the drones

I'm not gonna say it's impossible, personally I imagine using a camera array with a classifier that asks a human to confirm targets, or on automatic mode

But it's incredibly challenging because drones can come at you at 2 feet off the ground with 3 seconds warning, probably below the horizon this thing can engage at

>>64417637
>camera array
Normoid confirmed

>>64409473
>>64409499
Denis is actually a self hating Ukrainian

>>64417646
so how are you planning to detect drones that fly at 10 mph, 2 feet off the ground, with plastic rotors?

>>64417637
The same way the West has been doing it for a decade. A hemispheric radar, plus optional camera and ESM addons. The minimum range this thing can engage at, as shown in the OP picture, is about a 1 meter radius when it's sitting on the ground.

I'm confused about what you're trying to say because it sounds like you can't do basic geometry and don't know anything about modern weapons or electronics.

>>64417666
can a radar like that detect something moving at jogging speed on the ground? and classify it as not a cat, a soldier, a bird, a branch on a tree, etc?

>>64417652
Plastic rotors don't make you immune to radar and wireless FPVs don't fly 2 feet off the ground due to the horizon. You may now move the goalposts again by pretending you were talking about fiber optics or autonomous drones, and I'll point out again that elevating a radar counters this and that a defense being less than totally invulnerable does not invalidate it.

>>64417677
Yes, easily, and this has been used in the field for 10-15 years as an off the shelf military product.

Are you underaged, or are you a brain-fried boomer, or what? Why don't you know about basic modern radars?

>>64417685
>>64417678
Why are you shitting your pants in the thread?
Why not show me a radar that can classify an drone moving at jogging speed against ground clutter?

>>64417714
>not beating the allegations
I already did. Take your Alzheimers meds and scroll up to the DRS Rada mast.

>>64408972 (OP)
>It might be over.

No you're falling for marketing wank since you're retarded and know nothing about RF.
You can proof a drone against this with a roll of tinfoil and a handful of electronics parts worth 5 cent you retard.

Now go shoot cans in the backyard.

Notice how there's no primes like Lockmart and friends in this list?
Counter-UAS radar and EO is laughably simple compared to ABM, LO, AWAC or Airborne/Naval fire control systems.

https://defense.flir.com/defense-products/ranger-r8-3dx/
https://www.unmannedsystemstechnology.com/video/honeywell-counter-drone-system-for-fixed-and-mobile-applications/
https://detect-inc.com/security-surveillance-radars/
https://fortemtech.com/products/trueview-r30/
https://www.spotterglobal.com/drone-detection
https://www.echodyne.com/radar-solutions/echoshield/

>>64417714
Notice how there's no primes like Lockmart and friends in this list?
Counter-UAS radar and EO is laughably simple compared to ABM, LO, AWAC or Airborne/Naval fire control systems.

https://www.drsrada.com/missions/shorad-c-uas
https://defense.flir.com/defense-products/ranger-r8-3dx/
https://www.unmannedsystemstechnology.com/video/honeywell-counter-drone-system-for-fixed-and-mobile-applications/
https://detect-inc.com/security-surveillance-radars/
https://fortemtech.com/products/trueview-r30/
https://www.spotterglobal.com/drone-detection
https://www.echodyne.com/radar-solutions/echoshield/

>>64408972 (OP)
Vapourware. Just some shareholders trying to feed from the taxpayers teet. If it really works they'd loan it to the Ukrainians to give it a real-world test and to show their device actually works as advertised. But you don't see them doing that, do you?

I rest my case.

>>64417714
>ground clutter
Completely irrelevant if the target is moving. Moreover drones have very fast moving parts, which can be detected through a doppler shifted radar return.

>>64417811
>https://www.drsrada.com/missions/shorad-c-uas
Interesting. I remember their MHRs used to be either C-UAS or C-RAM optimised, but nowadays it's just an all-in-one multi-mission stuff.

>>64418282
A lot easier to do when you have AI to help with signal processing

>>64409482
I was on the fence but this post proves that you are a retarded fucking faggot.

>>64409667
>For purposes of the inverse square law, a collimated beam effectively has a point of origin far behind the actual source
please explain. Why is this? And what are the practical consequences?
I know what inverse square law is. Does that mean that if you target something 1KM away, it's like you're targeting something 101KM away?

>>64409499
>making It Is when in a wagie seething on the basket waving forum at "leeches"

>>64422085
All this stuff integrates into a standard IFV turret, so basically, yes. Read the OMFV reqs.

>>64422329
TEMPEST is a thing (but for completely different things and using different methods). Decent shielding is good enough to isolate the computer (or any electronic) by -150 to -200 dB with the decades old TEMPEST requiring at least -100 dB.

>>64422085
/pol/estinian droooone posters always like to imagine some kind of world where a piece of hardware like this is somehow surrounded by a hundred drone operators with no support, and because it may not be able to always win the 100-1 it's therefore useless

>>64422855
Actually you have no imagination in regards to where things are headed. The saturation attack that will defeat your counter-drone defenses will be deployed by a larger drone similar to an RQ-180. Once the RQ-180 drops 150 individual drones, they will use AI to guide to their targets. All 150 will also communicate amongst themselves to approach the enemy from all directions to further increase the odds that the saturation attack will succeed.

>>64422917
and why would anyone allow an rq-180 style drone to approach?
unironically what air defense doing

>>64422917
>The enemy will simultaneously have the extreme stealth tech of the RQ-180 that the US has, and will use it to drop slow drones instead of cruise missiles and high speed stand in weapons
Thirdie delusions

>>64422917
>you have to imagine it like this, the lone anti drone measure will be surrounded by a hundred drone operators with no support, and because it may not be able to always win the 150-1 it's therefore useless
thanks for proving my point, i guess

>>64422991
>cruise missiles and high speed stand in weapons
This is not as effective as what I've described.

The RQ-180 is stealthy enough to deploy the drone package from stand-off distance. Any country that prioritizes combat effectiveness will do this because you can potentially take out 150 tanks in this way. This would take considerably more F-35 runs to accomplish with much more risk.

>>64422917
>The 150 drones will communicate with radios, making them immune to anti-electronic attacks

>>64423020
>the sensor fuzed weapons fallacy
Target sets aren't geographically dense enough to make it worthwhile, hence the end of CBU97 in favor of SDBs

Hello, I am rf engineer ready to answer (debooonk) the bullshit of this thread :

>>64409176 maser and laser are quite different, and maser cant produce coherent beam

>>64409667 this doesn't exist. You are speaking in geometrical optic terms, what you mean is that an antenna can make the beam less divergent. Which is true, but a narrow beam require a big antenna.


>>64409483 chicken wire is great to protect against wavelength larger than the hole diameter(just like in a microwave)

>>64411450 pulsed and narrow band dont go well together, and neither narrow band and big power

>>64423099
some sort of "proof" of my authority

Realistically speaking, there is not much you can do against an autonomous drone with a metal shell.
>>64411174
this guy gets it

And finally to give the winner between the two schizo : >>64411850 & >>64411652
I declare schizo n°2 to be less wrong than n°1

>>64417714
Also this guy is right, I had the displeasure to work with some "state of the art" flir and robin radar and its very difficult to see the drone, even with micro-doppler (the rotating propeller) to discriminate against static target.
Flying wing are invisible when radial speed is low. Birds can be seen quite well tho thanks to wing movement I guess.

>>64422085
Yes

You microwave them out of the sky, or hit them with a C-UAS Coyote Block II+, OR you hit them with the Coyote Block III Mordecai non-kinetic effector that is a loitering munition that blasts the drones with microwaves when it flies past them. Lockheed Martin offers a similar loitering munition to Raytheon's Mordecai called MoRFIUS, but more powerful than Mordecai. OR you shoot them with 30mm proximity fused round, OR a 70mm APKWS. OR one of the many DEWs being fielded/tested. All of this is fielded, or getting fielded soon with FS-LIDS, and MS-LIDS. The US has been on this shit for decades, and nothing you think of they haven't already done, or figured out a better solution. Russia is just literally stuck in 1983.

Microwave:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlmf032NmHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMtrvr_v2_0

MoRFIUS:
https://nitter.cz/AirPowerNEW1/status/1680633763196448769
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3_hKfen73Y

Coyote Block II+:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhlUjX4kZeA
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43799/this-footage-of-jet-powered-coyote-drones-obliterating-other-drones-is-incredible

Block III:
https://defensetechconnect.com/2021/08/05/raytheon-coyote-block-3-successfully-defeats-drone-swarm/

>>64423020
>The RQ-180 is stealthy enough to deploy the drone package from stand-off distance
The drones with 10 mile endurance? lol lmao even.

>>64423099
>I am rf engineer
Prove it Ramjeet Diksuk.

>>64423151
>Samfagging agreeing with himself
Your shit Engrish gives you away, Ramdeep Dikshit.

>>64423324
>>64423337
Im not samefagging, just splitting my answer in 2 post, just like you did.
my only proof is the coupler you can see pictured >>64423151
Besides, I dislike arguments from authority, I just like to explain my field to normies, so ask question instead of asking for proof

>>64423307
>Coyote Block II+
How do you defend your aesa radar from a foamy rc plane with 100g of plastic ?
They are almost invisible from radar (except if thousands of false positive are an acceptable tune for you) and from thermal

>>64423627
Acoustic sensors, EO/IR sensors, RF sensors, and your drone is going to have motors and electronics. The radars (KuRFS) on the US C-UAS systems can track 9mm bullets, so you're not sneaking past it. All this retarded turdie cope is just that, retarded cope from know-nothing morans.
>Multi-mission KuRFS is so accurate, it can detect a 9mm bullet, and it has few false alarms or dropped tracks.
https://www.rtx.com/raytheon/news/2024/02/08/meet-lids-a-sure-shot-against-drones

>>64423588
>Im not samefagging
Yes you are. You're the same ESL faggot that you're agreeing with is right. At least change your posting style up and get better Engrish classes if you're wanting to fool anons.

>>64423770
I genuinely don't think he's samefagging, he just seems to be unfamiliar with posting etiquette here.

>>64423770
There is no way to tell if you are right or wrong, you are only using feeling, how many days have you been without being proved wrong ? always agreeing with yourself... strange in a way

>>64408972 (OP)
I don't get it. Why are people so stubborn? The best weapon against drones is another drone. Ground based weapons are last resorts and shouldn't be relied on. How did we counter enemy aircraft since WWI? With another aircraft. Are these wunderwaffles a symptom of conventional militaries too deep in the sunk cost fallacy of already spending trillions in obsolete weaponry and refusing to accept drones have taken over?

>>64423944
Rather people disagree about how they've changed the game. The war in ukraine is a slapfight between the poorest nation in europe and the most corrupt nation in europe. Even then, the lions share of the destruction of eauipment is due to artillery and bombs

>>64423944
How do you know where the drone is ? In every plane, even before radar, there is a high-tech sensor : the pilot
drone dont see shit, dont ear, nothing

>>64423761
Spending a million dollars to defend against cheap little toys is a loss for the defender. You can simple just keep sending little toys over until your enemy runs out of money lol.

>>64423944
Lasers and phased arrays didn't exist in WW1.

If you examine the actual physical distances, speeds, and masses involved and judge based on the actual mechanics; your take is less reasonable than it sounds if you're just vibing. Point defense is better than you think, artillery is better than you think, and drones are worse than you think. Here's an intuition pump: https://www.warquants.com/p/capability-analysis-ai-machine-guns

>>64423990
Drones are what spot and stop advances, it's why there is a standstill, drones.

>>64424012
And how exactly do you plan to get close enough to consistently send cheap drones and not get counter-batteried in 15 minutes? A million dollars is also very cheap compared to a real antitair battery that's closer to a billion dollars.

>>64424012
You spend lives and the enemy spends money, who do you think will win the war first?
This is zigger tier cope.

>>64424019
A HELIOS system costs well over 50 million dollars right now. So it has to take out like, 500,000 drones? lol you're retarded.

>>64423761
>can track 9mm bullets
It's not as difficult as it seems. Bullets are small, so its difficult to receive a strong return, but they are very fast, so its very easy to separate them from clutter. Detecting uav is not only about receiving a low signal (foamy planes are very stealthy, quadcopters not at all) but about discriminating against clutter.
Its like the difference between being invisible, and camouflaged, same result but different

>>64424034
>he didn't read the link
You're wildly overestimating what it takes. Think phone cameras linked to a GPMG.

>>64424025
The drones will be delivered to the front line from the air, by other drones. Both will be controlled by AI. Some fat mexican in Georgia will click on the map to order the drones to "kill everything over here" like an RTS.

>>64424041
>https://www.warquants.com/p/capability-analysis-ai-machine-guns
good luck detecting a drone with only a camera. For fire control maybe when you already know where he is

>>64421358
No, it means the dropoff in effectiveness as you get further away that normally follows the inverse square law gets treated as if the distance the beam has traveled is proportionally much smaller
IE a 1km away target that would normally be 1/2 in the formula is instead 1001/1002, meaning much less dropoff
t. Other brainlet anon

>>64424041
It's impractical to put point defense absolutely everywhere because their range is too short, and the costs too high to defend against something as numerous and birds and with the same radar cross section.

>>64424058
>it's another episode of /k/ thinks years-old tech is physically impossible
This site is a fudd shithole.

>>64424061
And what is the name of such magical device ?

>>64424064
Their range in the above example is 800 meters plus and it's cheap enough to put one on almost every vehicle in the military.

>>64424067
yes it uses ai so it must be great
sadly camera cant see trough leaves, smoke, at night... they get blinded, and most importantly they have a small fov and difficulty tracking multiple target meaning that if the camera zoom on a false positive, you cant see anything else until

Radar are vastly superior in this regard

>>64424068
Collimated beam.

>>64424113
you cant collimate rf in a meaningful way.
To achieve the same collimation of a laser pointer, you need massive antenna such as this one https://wikipedia.org/wiki/RATAN-600
Beside, any antenna gain less than infinity will obey the inverse square law

>>64424071
Yep way too short to be meaningful.

>>64424053
so in this fantasy you have complete and uncontested air superiority, and instead of just dropping bombs on people, you send temu drones?

>>64424194
yeah, that's what everyone is developing for a reason

>>64423761
>The radars (KuRFS) on the US C-UAS systems can track 9mm bullets

it's easier to track a 9mm bullet than a drone cause it's going fast as fuck and has a massive doppler shift

>>64424145
Your citation, sir?

>>64424370
Just you your brain. For any conflict that matters you would need tens of thousands of these units, amounting to tens of billions of dollars. You would be way better off just building drones with that money instead of blowing it on just defending yourself.

>>64424431
Or, and I know this is an advanced concept but bear with me, just have air superiority before sending in infantry

>>64424243
Your citation, sir?

>>64424431
I observe a certain inequality in your assertion, in that all burden of presenting the figures involved falls to myself, while all the presumption and vibes seem to fall to you.

>>64424012
That only works with shitholes like Russia that can't into air dominance and SEAD/DEAD. We weren't talking how to ultimately stop them, which would be to bomb their factories that make the drones and drone components, bomb their ports, sink their ships, and bomb their bases.

If these drones work so well, why, then, aren't Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran using them to destroy Israel? KEK.

>>64424036
>but they are very fast, so its very easy to separate them from clutter.
Radars have been able to separate ground clutter from slow velocity targets for decades. Look up MTI radars being able to track dismounts (soldiers) which are just slow velocity targets. Stop being ignorant, and do your own fucking research.

>>64424274
>>64424880
It's not 1962 anymore. Update your brain.

>>64424880

Why are you showing me a sar radar video ? It is a completely different type of radar with camera-like resolution, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to put to use on a point defense system.

Its not about being able or not or whatever commercial stuff. Its about information theory. The speed difference make filtering easier, thus you can detect targets with smaller reflection.
Bullets are very small, but very fast so its "easy"
Human are big and reflective but very slow so its "medium"
Quadcopters are small but fast with strong micro-doppler reflection so its "medium"
foamy rc plane are not reflective, fast so its "difficult"
But what "easy"/"difficult" means ? its not that its impossible, but rather that you need more less conditions (better snr, more complex filters, more false negatives, bigger antennas, more bandwith, integration time and so on).

>>64424885
Information theory was developed in 1940, and no alien technology has been made public since then, so whatever bullshit commercial system you talk about, it will have to respect those theorems