Thread 64440179

Hey, has anyone in Ukraine worked on the idea of targeting Russia's food production? You don't have to do it with bombs. Pay vagrants spray blight on fields. Or aerosolize it on drones. Why not? It's subtle enough that they might not even realize it was intentional.

>>64440179 (OP)
bioweapons are not a part of ukraine's known arsenal, despite being based. the refinery tactic is likely to have a similar effect on russian food production however.

Lukashenko is your time to SHIIIIIIIIIIIIINE
>and people doubted of the potato, it was all carefully planed

Because Ukraine is similarly economically dependent on crops, and (as evidenced by endless footage of Russians droning fire engines, gas stations and other civil infrastructure out of spite) if you give them the idea to attack crops and the excuse of not having done it first, they'll take that shit and run with it. The reality is Russia is being fucked with quite successfully without opening new avenues of warfare that could backfire.

>>64440195
You don't need a specialized lab to come up with something that will kill potatoes. All of the old pathogens still work. Russian farmers don't have GMO crops that are resistant to disease, there are enough diseases of potatoes that you could target them with multiple ones depending on the growing season. As an added bonus Ukraine is not a potato-dependent country and mostly grows wheat and corn instead.

The cost is pennies on the dollar compared to drones. The one constant among dictatorships is that if people don't start protesting when you terrorize them and violate their human rights, they will sure as shit start doing it when they don't have food.

>>64440246
you don't, but that doesn't mean that unleashing a bioweapon on the people who are already being told you're doing bioweapons and cancer viruses to them won't just drive more people to recruitment, actually reinforce the morale of russia, and also tank your western support. striking refineries and power plants by comparison is free game, because russia was doing it first anyways.

>>64440257
You could just do it in a very subtle way, and deny it if you get caught. Nobody would believe the Russians and when they start doing it back, you then accuse them of having thrown the first stone. Russia has a lot more land area to cover, more people to feed, and a narrower diversity of crops. Potatoes are also inherently more susceptible to disease than wheat, corn, or sunflowers.

>unleashing a bioweapon on the people who are already being told you're doing bioweapons and cancer viruses to them won't just drive more people to recruitment

It's not going to make them believe it any more than it does already. The Russian population is not going to go to recruiting offices if they can't put food on the table, and polls show that the majority of the population wants to stay as far from the front line as possible. And as for the morality of it--- well, fuck 'em. They all are complicit. They didn't give two shits when it wasn't happening to them.

>>64440241
There's footage of russia attacking farmers with FPV drones from yesterday dude. They were blowing up grain silos and shipping terminals two years ago. Nothing is off the table for them.

Strategic attacks on crops don't stop at the border.

>>64440344
Okay, what about drone cropdusters spraying pesticides?

Take one of these. Take out the explosives, and put in more fuel and some cropdusting equipment and tanks. Then program a GPS pattern for it to spray multiple fields, and return. The drone can take its time, it's not like there will be air defense guarding a random farm, and it's unlikely to fall to small arms fire. When it returns, you can refill it, and send it out again. You can keep it going around the clock and spray hundreds of fields in a week. You don't have to be reliant on drone production lines. You build a fleet of specialized GPS cropduster drones and keep them maintained.

More than 50% of Russia's agricultural production comes from the Volga River Valley, in easy striking distance from Ukraine. It's incredibly hard to defend farmland itself in a comprehensive way and to move air defense infrastructure through it.

>>64440179 (OP)
Do you know why chemical warfare isn't used anymore? It's not because it causes inhuman deaths, its because the enemy will retaliate in kind. And Russia has far more experience with WMDs, including the world's only remaining samples of smallpox. Ukraine attacks Russia's agriculture, Russia starts a plague in Kiev. It's better to just let Russia bleed out economically or from lack of refined fuel.

First of all, causing famine in a modern country is much easier if you kill the nation's petrochem chain. Modern agriculture depends on diesel and other petrochemicals. Biocide and other retarded autism that you've cooked up, OP, is pointless and would cause bad optics.

>>64440393
Yeah. I don't know why there isn't any talk of Russia's industrial agricultural chain collapsing. You see mention of their airline industry failing, but not the fact that tractors and refrigerated trucks need fuel.

>>64440404
because this refinery campaign is too late to actually affect the harvest. it would be next years chain that would be most affected by it.

>>64440410
True, but time moves swiftly.

This board seems too eager to destroy ecosystems if it means owning the ziggers. Their lack of empathy over the environment clearly means they're either brown or some kind of dysgenic white trash

>>64440413
What do crops have to do with ecosystems? Are you retarded?

Phytophthora infestans has been responsible for every major potato famine in history. It devastates fields when it gets into them, but doesn't spread well over long distances because its spores do not survive for very long without their host plants. They can also kill tomatoes but aren't a major problem for any of the crops that Ukraine produces in large quantities. Perhaps the easiest way to weaponize them would be to grow your own potatoes, infect them, and shred the infected potatoes into tiny 2mm chunks which you then treat with a preservative and anti-caking agent. Keep them in an incubator that you occasionally feed more fresh potato chunks into. Then when ready use a drone equipped with a hopper to spread them over a massive number of potato fields all at once.

Or, make the farmers do it themselves by disguising whatever your agent is as legitimate agricultural products which you can then place on the Russian market. Do it subtly enough that they won't even notice that you're doing it, but enough that the market price of potatoes rises significantly. Or, put pesticides in russian fertilizer supplies.

How hard can it be to get one or two people inside the Russian agricultural industry, to poison stuff from within?

Bioweapons don't respect borders.

Russia was an agricultural exporter, so even a significant reduction in production would be difficult to create a shortage of domestic demand.
However, there have been many cases in history where supply chain disruptions have led to famines even in the presence of stockpiles.

>>64440431
Famines are logistic dependent, not solely production dependent. And modern agriculture is dependent on tractors and refrigerated trucks. If either one of those two things fail, then industrial agriculture fails entirely. Nobody grows anything local anymore, it's all shipped in.

>>64440392
>Muh WMDs
Targeting fields with pesticides or blight is far more likely to be viewed favorably by the international community than using actual WMDs. Ukraine would get a slap on the wrist and Russia would risk getting NATO involved. Especially if it's done in the plausibly deniable way that I mentioned.

>>64440393
Why not both? They are not mutually exclusive
>Muh optics
see above

>>64440393
>>64440404
You don't hear talk of it because it's not going to happen. Large scale destruction of crops doesn't happen from lack of pesticides alone and Russia produces enough pesticides that they have a rather deep pool of production that needs to be depleted for this to be effective. It's something that would be seen over years and not months. What I'm proposing has immediate and drastic strategic implications. It could change the war over a single harvest season. Ordinary people in cosmopolitan russia (where the decisionmaking happens) would live drastically worse lives virtually overnight, and it would be highly politically destabilizing.

>>64440413
>Muh ecosystems
fuck off. ziggers don't deserve nice ecosystems.

>>64440442
>international community
I didn't say anything about the international community. I only mentioned that Russia's capability to retaliate far exceeds Ukriane's and Ukraine has far better and less risky options.
It's like stopping to cheat when you're winning.

>>64440442
>international community
nobody cares about the international community. i'm sure the coalition of the willing would release a very strongly worded statement.

In modern agriculture, crops are treated with pesticides multiple times, starting from the seed and sprout stage.
This is because the main effect of pesticides is prevention, not treatment.
As long as the process is thorough, intentional spread of infection should be difficult.

>>64440431
>>64440437
The objective is not to cause a famine, although that may happen. It's to make the prices go up drastically for the consumer. The limiting factor here is not potato quantity. It is the money that the average russian consumer has to spend under wartime conditions. As you pointed out russia was an agricultural exporter, that means that the majority of their potatoes are sourced locally. People in Russia don't truly feel the impact of the war at home yet. And unlike Russia Ukraine isn't willing to deliberately target and murder civilians. But they can still make them hurt and make the average Russian angry that a war is impacting them at home.

>>64440442
Why the fuck would Ukraine need to start using biocides and pathogens (very unreliable and inaccurate weapons) to kill crops when they can just surgically destroy the petrochem chain with kinetic and accurate weapons? Are you a fucking retard?

>>64440455
>People in Russia don't truly feel the impact of the war at home yet
Russia is in the midst of a terrible fuel crisis.

>>64440446
>>64440448
>Russia's capability to retaliate far exceeds Ukriane
That's true from day 1, they have nukes. But Russia has already tried and failed to starve out the Ukranians. The crops Ukraine grows (wheat, corn, sunflowers) are hardier and more diverse.

>>64440446
They wouldn't do anything to Ukraine is my point.

>>64440450
I refer you to plan B, having a drone directly cropdust them with herbicides to destroy russian fields literally overnight. Sort of like Agent Orange but actually effective.

>>64440457
You can do both easily, numbnuts. 2 is greater than 1. You absolute fucking imbecile.

Unlike bacteria and viruses, herbicides do not self-replicate, so attacks using herbicides require huge amounts of spray.

The entirety of Russia should just be coated in a 1 inch layer of Anthrax.

>>64440179 (OP)
>>64440195
FPBP
Russia is fucking huge, attacking arable land especially with blight that can spread would be difficult if the blight didn't easily spread and could easily backfire if the blight was especially contagious.

Much easier to hamper food production by hindering key logistic bottlenecks like fuel production, fertilizer plants, etc.

>Hey, has anyone in Ukraine worked on the idea of targeting Russia's food production?
they did not, because they cucked by western support, while russia uses drones to fuck over ukie farmers

>>64440179 (OP)
>>64440442
>Weapons of mass destruction with the explicit goal of causing civilian suffering will be ignored by the international community
Holy fucking brainrot

>>64440404
>I don't know why there isn't any talk of Russia's industrial agricultural chain collapsing
Because this isn't reported on war related sites, but it's happening:
- Forecasts from USDA estimate a significant declines in russia's 2025 grain harvest, with corn production going down 27%, oats down 12% and wheat down 11%;
- This production slump is compounded with a sharp 32% drop in domestic agricultural equipment and machinery sales, which industry analysts say is one of the lowest figures in 25 years;
- The current 20-25% interest rates on loans, even with subsidies, make it nearly impossible to finance shit;
- The processing sector is also getting hit from all sides, including inflation, sanctions, loan costs, disrupted supply chains, shortages of manpower (representatives of leading russian farming associations such as AKKOR disclosing that the russian agricultural sector faces the deepest shortage of workers since the end of WWII), raising costs of labor (e.g. why would Oleg work in a milk processing plant for 40,000 RUB per month, when the army pays 200,000+ RUB per month?) - all of which force them to push up their own prices, despite their core market being poor;

>>64440442
my brother in Christ, it a question of double standards: russians routinely specifically target civilians, use chemical weapons and such, and nobody bats and eye, while any time ukies do anything even potentially sketchy (hurr-durr why did they shoot those retards who were ingaged in perfidy?!) everybody whines

>>64440388
>More than 50% of Russia's agricultural production comes from the Volga River Valley
do you have any idea how absolutely massive the volga river vally even is?
it wouldn't take dozens or hundred or even thousands of trips to spray it down but hundreds of thousands

>>64440179 (OP)
Why are westoids like this?

the reason you don't do this isn't just about it being immoral to do.
or that the international community would frown on it.
but that it would take a gigantic effort to pull off on a scale required to have any effect at all.
something you couldn't hide, something that would draw in a lot of resources and would fuck over your own or your allies production sooner or later
it would also open up the floodgates of what ever nasty shit russia has stockpiled and keep in mind they have weaponized anthrax.
I would rather not live in a world where operation vegetarian wasn't just the bongs being typically scheming evil cunts. but one where it's very much the reality

>>64441045
>brown lives matter

>>64441057
Self loathing isn't good for the soul ameribro
>>64441053
>the reason you don't do this isn't just about it being immoral to do.
>implying that morals ever mattered to westoids

>>64441063
>we are of moral superior saar

>>64440179 (OP)
>t. FSB trying to figure out ideas to starve Ukraine

>>64441075
It's always projection with you people

>>64440297
Show me

>>64441074
>Pokrovsk
lmao

>>64440179 (OP)
>Hey, has anyone in Ukraine worked on the idea of targeting Russia's food production?

Hmm, a very interesting thought indeed.

I actually happen to work closely with the Reddit Battalion, I will forward this intel immediately. Something like this could turn the tide entirely.

>biowarfare and targeting civilian food production

Or maybe just end the damned war :(

>>64440179 (OP)
Russias most productve agricultural imprvements were running on western agricultural machinery and technology. Left to its own devices Russia was always a place prone to starvation, famine and canabalism. Ukraine has not targetted Russia food production though, it simply toom away the fuel for Rusisas military vehicles and attacking army. Anything else is a byproduct.

>>64441211
Why? Ukraine is removing the barrier to lasting peace, Russias military stockpile, the arsenal of terror and dicators and the FSB/KGB torture chamber state. Slava Ukraini.

>>64441211
If Russia wanted to end the war then they could just stop their invasion and leave
they don't actually want peace: they just want their victim to stop fighting back and let them win

I don't think it's practical and would probably engender an entire shit storm of retaliation and sanctions.

However there is the minute possibility that it might lead to famine and suffering among the Russian civilian population. So I'm 100% in favor of this idea.