Thread 64458258

Given the massive losses of Russian armored forces, their inability to replace them with new designs beyond a token handful produced each year, and the dubious quality of these designs - isn't the armor build up of Germany and Poland somewhat redundant?
Seems like something to have been done 15-20 years ago, not now that they're pulling T-62s and 54s out of storage.

>>64458258 (OP)
better safe than sorry

>>64458279
safe from what?
the only worry left is that with their back to the wall they might chimp out with the only thing they have left: the nuclear stockpile, which more MBTs and IFVs wont protect against

>>64458258 (OP)
While the best time to build up your military was 15-20 years ago, the second best time is today

>>64458293
I get what you're trying to say, but France has repeatedly demonstrated that preparing for war before your enemy does is a terrible idea

>>64458305
France has also demonstrated that preparing for war after your enemy does is also a terrible idea

>>64458258 (OP)
The war is likely going to end in either Ukraine getting it's territory returned or Russia taking some of Ukraines territory. Either way you are going to have a cold war iron curtain border that needs to be defended and a large enough force to act as a deterrent for future attacks. Part of me wishes this build up of forces is for offensive action against Russia but I just don't think we have the balls.

>>64458334
defend against what and deter attacks with what?

>>64458334
Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Belarus, and Ukraine all need to collectively start moving their borders east. Maybe even have Georgia and Azerbaijan move theirs north. Not only will the Russians only be able to counter with a tiny handful of drones and conscripts, but the entirety of Europe would have an endless supply of salt for a century.

>>64458359
Defend against Russia and deter attacks by having a powerful military, thought I was pretty clear

>>64458528
>the joke
>[distance]
>(you)
I think the anon is implying Russia doesn't have anything left to attack with anymore.

>>64458406
Really that's not enough, that's a half measure that doesn't solve anything. NATO should plan for an all out invation when the Putin Regime inevitably collapses and dismantle the Russian nuclear forces and missile forces and programs and then leave them to themselves. This is really the only way to guarantee security and it would have been done during the USSR collapse.

>>64458549
I'd add also splitting Russia into several smaller independent nations. They'll spend decades murdering each other in attempts to unify Russia.

>>64458528
all the armors gone, deter what?
light infantry and drones can stop conscripts on dirtbikes

>>64458549
>>64458578
Dick Cheney as Bush Snrs defence secretary advocated at the end of the Cold War that not merely the USSR but Russia itself should be carved up, "so that they can never again threaten us"

>>64458305
France has repeatedly demonstrated fighting the last war is a terrible idea.

>>64458334
>The war is likely going to end in either Ukraine getting it's territory returned
LOL, you need to get out of /k/ope hugbox. Ukraine is not going to recover anything it lost in this conflict.

Oh look, the serb is back

>64458747
>zigger
>hard drive full of black dicks

>>64458725
They can but having a full conventional army stops them more effectively while using and risking less soldiers. See in the west we care more about potential loss of manpower than potential loss of material.

>>64458258 (OP)
Tanks are for supporting infantry not just killing other MBTs, if you have heaps of armour and your enemy doesn't you are at a huge advantage.

>>64458258 (OP)
The Central European Entente is gearing up to peacekeep Muscovia once Putin get Gaddafied.

>>64458736
>the country conducting human wave tactics on dirtbikes deserves a little bit of territory as a treat

>>64458258 (OP)
>somewhat redudant
The reason they're rearming is because even if RUSSIA can't replace them, China could. And since they've been closing china out of telecoms and trade options, this could happen.
This also has the nice uptick of jumpstarting domestic production(and giving people jobs) during a cost of living crisis.
tl;dr: it's not for russia it's for the war that's going to come after Ukraine

>>64458833
heavy armor requires more troops

>>64458907
>China could
lolwut
Europe does not have the military lift capability to around the world to fight China, nor to travel across Eurasia to do it either
>This also has the nice uptick of jumpstarting domestic production(and giving people jobs) during a cost of living crisis.
Why not direct that into meeting civilian needs?

>>64458910
Heavy armor protects the troops inside it from conscripts on dirtbikes

>>64458915
Civilians need money, this fulfills that need

>>64458915
No, but they can make enough equipment that if China gives russia equipment and troops to fight them off, while the US bombs the fuck out of China

>>64458915
>Why not direct that into meeting civilian needs?
Jobs are a civilian need, and give them money to spend as they require.

>>64458928
>employ people building transportation
>pay for bill with the improved transportation and lower fossil fuel emissions
>employ people building military equipment
>pay for bill with ???

>>64458258 (OP)
If you want a stronger army of course you're going to buy tanks. What's the alternative? Train a horde of light infantry? lol, lmao even.

>>64458949
>lets use that same argument for public services
>no thats socialism

>>64458293
r g56 3adxa sj 7 634 3 235235 adsa 2145

>>64458977
not for nothing but the EU does that anyway already.
Jobs programs ARE public services, and security is important whether you're a socialist or capitalist

>>64458736
You need to get off of reddit and Telegram, pidor Russia will not survive this conflicvt as a fucntioning nationstate, meaning Ukraine will jsut take everythign back by default.

>>64459015
entire cities and regions of the USA exist without public transportation infrastructure because that would be gommunisms, meanwhile suggest cutting military budget and y'all scream about jobs

>>64459048
>y'all
okay but we're talking about europe Ivan, keep up with the conversation

>>64458977
>thats socialism
Yes and thus destined to fail because by doing that, you're left poor and defenseless. Welfare states all inevitably end in the gutter because turns out that pissing your budget into a black hole is generally fiscally unsound.

>>64458725
Combined arms warfare can combat Russia better.
>but drones hav-
Assuming drones actually stick around in force, and they probably will, they probably won't actually be the end-all-be-all weapon they are in Ukraine. You actually do need tanks 'n' shit in the next war.

There's also common sense problems with your idea, like the fact that Russia deciding to start a war that they'll lose horribly isn't impossible. Having tanks in that war will make Russia lose faster, and that's important because they can still kill a lot of people until the point that they actually lose.

>>64458815
All ziggers wish to be ZUTTED.

For those wondering:
Two refineries
A gas plant
Germany is thinking about nationalizing russian owned refineries
And India is actually not buying russian oil

>>64458907
>The reason they're rearming is because even if RUSSIA can't replace them, China could.
China and Russia are natural enemies. China is not going to rearm Russia.
The only reason China and Russia play nice is because they have a mutual opponent in western whites. Russia wants to rule the world (including China) and this conflicts with western whites wanting to rule the world. Western whites want to genocide the Chinese and this conflicts with them not wanting to be genocided.
If western whites didn’t make it obvious they wanted to depopulate China, China would probably be onboard with destroying Russia in the name of world security.

>>64459126
By the time the Bundestag decides on it, Russia will be a different political entity altogether, if not several.

>>64459126
>And India is actually not buying russian oil
absolutely catastrophic for the zigzogs if this continues, iirc they were about 30% of all sales and even then the jeets were buying well below market rates

>>64458902
One man's human wave is another man's combined arms doctrine. Also how will Ukraine force a return? They have yet to stage an effective counter attack since their first.

>>64458288
Safe from a recession, US economy is going down the drain so need something to buoy domestic industry,

>>64458305
France has repeatedly demonstrated that it is a terrible idea.

>>64459418
any day now!

>>64459429
She's giving that thing a really odd look

>>64458305
France has repeatedly been demonstrated to be a bad idea

>bear balancing on a ball.jpg
It would take 10-15 years or even longer, but eventually russia will rebuild enough of its (land) force for another chimp out

>>64458258 (OP)
no, because russians are more than willing to throw millions and millions of people at you and make them charge through minefield.

>>64458258 (OP)
Yes, just keep using broomsticks instead of rifles, nothing bad could happen to you Germany.

>>64458288
Which wall is their back to? Are you just an american who can't read maps?

>>64459126
Lol another owngoal like when they shut down nuclear to burn more coal and russian gas.

>>64459547
Probably the same wall the US, AUS, and EU are against with regard to Chinese “belligerence” — a made-up one.

>>64459126
Hero
I knew something was up

>>64458578
#BalkanizeRussia

>>64459437
You just know

>>64459074
>pouring your productive capital into military expenditure that gives nothing back is not destined to fail and wont leave you poorer
>improving society is fiscally unsound

>>64459458
they're manufacturing three Su-57 per year

>>64459547
the metaphorical wall of being isolated, surrounded by NATO, and facing the prospect of being carved up

>>64458549
Until you realize that,unlike the US, Russian nukes can be independently launched by commanders in the field and a mass strike can be launched by half a dozen people in the politiburo.

They're probably the most robust of any nuclear deterrent in the world.

>>64464594
Lol

>>64458288
Sino-Russian consolidation after the debts get called in and Russia becomes a Chinese vassal.

The future Water Wars and geopolitical instability cause by mass migration.

>>64458730
Darth Cheney was based

>>64458977
That's why commies are always at war and democracy forgets when it is. You need terror for socialism.

>>64459048
No they don't

>>64458258 (OP)
Ziggers can buy tons more of it from Norks. Even if obsolescent

Having more tanks is good

>>64458258 (OP)
I don't think they planned for war. At the moment they are doing what they can, which is what they used to do. It might help.

>>64459048
I know I'm replying to a troll but I can't help it. Even smaller cities/larger towns in the US will usually have SOME kind of public transportation at the county level, it's just not nearly as robust and dependable as what faggy euros are used to. Sure you can take a bus to work, but you might be waiting 40+ minutes between each bus, and that's if it shows up on time. The vast majority of people, even absolutely destitute fuckers, can usually scrounge enough pennies together to get raped by payments at a BHPH lot on a clapped out hoopty that will at least get them to work most of the time.

>>64458970
>pay for bill with ???
With bonds issued in US dollars that people overseas buy

>>64464594
Fun fact, these comnanders like exchanging their nukes for black briefcases filled with dollars.