Thread 64461079

If Civil War 2.0 broke out tomorrow, with the same teams as before and the states west of Kansas and Texas sitting it out, who would win? What's the balance of power like between Dixie and the Union now?
Disregard politics, just talk capabilities.

>>64461079 (OP)
>Disregard politics
This will not happen

>>64461079 (OP)
The north shits itself because of famine, the south shits itself because there's nobody to sell surplus food to.
Then they have some kind of retarded arrangement where the food is sold to a middleman before it makes its its way north but by then your average city has collapsed and looks like Liberia, with gangs of brown cannibals stalking the streets.
The south eventually just walks in.
And that's before we start looking into what's going on with the electric grid.

>>64461091
>Famine
>with Iowa, Illinois, Kansas and Indiana
555-COME-ON-NOW

chichi get the yayo

>>64461079 (OP)
Probably all comes down to nukes, doesn't it?
What's each side got?

>>64461079 (OP)
The states west of Texas didn't sit it out the first time. The westernmost land battle (just a skirmish, really) was in Arizona. Arizona Jews were selling wheat to both sides until the Union forced them to sell only to the Union.

>>64461079 (OP)
>virtually all of the US Military's infrastructure (including manufacture and maintenance of nuclear weapons) is in Southern states
>North hollowed out its own industrial base 50 years ago and outsourced it all to China, Mexico (and the South)
>Midwesterners control all the ICBMs and just want to be left alone
>California too busy having a famine/being reconquered by Mexico to be of any help

Total Yankee Death

>>64461079 (OP)
inb4 some retard from the south hits us with the classic
>durrhurr muh states gawt NOOKS heh

>>64461079 (OP)
>What's the balance of power like between Dixie and the Union now?
Disregard politics, just talk capabilities.
Union/federal government owns the armed forces and all armed forces installations. Disregarding politics this menas they have a nigh-total monopoly of force and win instantly. There's no war, just a bunch of disloyal politicians being arrested.

>>64461574
>in southern states
Okay? It's federal land btw, not owned by any of those states.

>>64461079 (OP)

We would immediately join our Southern brethren in killing every living thing in New York City

t. Upstate NY

>>64461079 (OP)
southern manufacturing has been left to rot, the northern manufacturing(what little remains) is in defense manufacturing and contracting propped up by pork bills. this alone decides the war as the south burns it's stockpiles with no replacements, and the north manages to at least replace some of it. texas can probably fuel things for a while using oil production, but it's pretty clear how to wage wars against gas station states these days. unfortunately most of the souths crops these days are cash crops still too, so they're going to run into some problems there. could hang on a while longer if the uninvolved states are still selling animal feed, but staples are going to run out in a year otherwise.

none of this is how a modern civil war would work anyways though so this is a pointless wargame.

>>64461326
georgia and missouri, but most of the missiles in the US aren't accounted for in this scenario anyways, and the north nuking the south fucks the north on fallout, even in airburst, and the south nuking the north fucks them downriver. it's not a viable option at this scale.

>>64461592
>Okay? It's federal land btw, not owned by any of those states.

So was Fort Sumter.

>>64461605
Holy fucking based

>>64461079 (OP)

Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey join the Confederacy just so they can genocide New Yorkers and New Englanders (a fair and reasonable proposition).

>>64461605
NH here, where do I sign up?

>>64461079 (OP)
BAYONEEEETTTTSSSS!!!

>>64461089
And then tranny jannies will shoah this thread while multiple Ukraine ones stay up

>>64461606
>southern manufacturing has been left to rot
lolwut? It's quite literally the opposite of what you said.

>>64461079 (OP)
Do the states keep the military bases they have now? If so, South. If they only get guard units, still South. If the military is sitting out, and people aren't allowed to switch sides, the north has the same advantages as CW1. But I will say it's a toss up still. The South has better armed civilians and an invasion would be a nightmare, especially in Appalachia. But without the military, the South would be too disorganized to invade and take the North imo.

>>64461659
Stay mad somewhere else then

>>64461079 (OP)

Probably just a repeat of Syria on a vastly larger scale

>100 different factions killing each other over everything from race to petty feuds
>Federal government initially has a massive monopoly on violence and ROFLstomps the opposition in open engagements, but gradually begins to suffer from institutional rot as attrition takes its toll
>rebels form a coalition and manage to topple the Federal government after it's been completely hollowed out in a protracted struggle that costs tens of millions of lives, and then immediately turn on each other

>>64461574
Away down south in the land of traitors
rattlesnakes and alligators

>>64461097
Hope you like eating corn and basedbeans.

/k/ forgets that there are bluetards on red states and redtards on blue states

This isn't like Norf and Souf 2.0, more like blue vs red on almost every state

There's like a million plus redtards in Commiefornia and a million plus bluetards in Texas

>>64461825
NTA but I kind of live off that at the moment.

>>64461659
>while multiple Ukraine ones stay up
God forbid the weapons board talk about the biggest war since ww2

>>64461699
your source includes textile processing, which spiked as china's labor price in that market increased. manufacturing all over should be worse than orange in that chart, except nevada and utah because they got new MIC factories from locksneed

>>64461574
>California
>Famine
>Conquered
Everyone dunks on Cali but they have a gigantic area that can be farmed almost year round, have oil wells, like 7 major military installations, the largest port. Half the state is giant mountains and dense forest. California is more than just Los Angeles and San Francisco.

>>64461838
This. I know this is kind of hard to parse, but things in 2025 are a bit different from how things were in 1860.

>>64461857
India/Pakistan(and now Afghanistan) had a paltry few threads, ditto Thailand/Cambodia
Israel/Palestine had just a few
Ukraine has been spammed on this godforsaken board for five straight years now

>>64461825
You mean staple crops you 30IQ fucking mouth breather?

>>64461867
>farmed year around
Only with imported water.

>>64461867
California's biggest problem is that it has far too great of a population to be useful in a military engagement. If war breaks out the military will be spending a not insignificant amount of resources trying to protect its assets. This is not the 1940's anymore where the population was a third of its size.

>>64461637
I just want to kill niggers, jews, leftists, politicians and oh*oans

>>64461920
I guarantee your body looks like shit.

>>64461914
Because it’s far more interesting than the rest of your list combined?
Every time something interesting has happened in any of the conflicts you’ve mentioned, there have been multiple threads about it.
But there is only so much to discuss about a single? downed jet and bunch of brown sabre rattling

>>64461929
Do you have some examples of military conflicts, where a large population was a negative?
Because more bodies to throw at a war seems like strictly a good thing to me

>>64461699
>percentage change
Now show the absolute number of manufacturing jobs.

>>64461079 (OP)
Who gets the navy and Command of the sea to import stuff

>>64461967
Malayalan emergency. Who wants to put millions of the people on "their side" in relocation (concentration) camps

>>64461622
And? Union gets all federal land and everything on it. That means they get effectively all of the military. Game over.

>>64461079 (OP)
Hmm the blackest part of the country against the whitest part of the country....
Got it

>>64461967
>Do you have some examples of military conflicts, where a large population was a negative?
Not necessarily "large", but relatively large in terms of population vs active force : Haitians vs French.
> Free slaves
> Can't feed newly freed slaves
> Kill newly freed slaves
Womp womp.

>>64461941
>throwing us in with niggers, jews, leftists, and politicians
I bet you're either a satly penislvanian or a michigan meat clown

>>64461556
>The states west of Texas didn't sit it out the first time. The westernmost land battle (just a skirmish, really) was in Arizona.
This is a true statement.
>Arizona Jews were selling wheat to both sides until the Union forced them to sell only to the Union.
False. There are no Jewish people in Arizona, onle redskinks and cowboys and redskins don't grow wheat.

>>64461867
90% of the SJV is houses and asphalt.

>>64461079 (OP)
>disregard politics
War is inherently political.

>>64461079 (OP)
>Disregard politics
Civil wars are political wars, no matter what. Sure the causes can be religion, or resources, or anything, but they always fall back on politics, and the capabilities of each side would also rely on that. Who allies with who, who helps who, who is against who. Lets say, just as an example, the south is democrat leaning and the north is republican, who would canada want to help? Or europe, or russia, china, etc etc. Who supplies who with guns and gear, who sends foreign volunteers to who and who does the same as an individual going to support their morale's. Trying to separate politics from any kind of 'civil war' setting makes zero sense.

>>64461951
Anon, always remember: 95% of the people seething about Ukraine threads on /k/ are either brown, /pol/troons, or mindbroken vatniks who realize that their last hope is to try and snuff out any discussion of the war since all their methods of propaganda and subversion have failed on /k/.

Ruslims aren't bothered by Ukraine threads, they're bitter at the fact that /k/ is a rightwing place that shits on them 24/7 instead of falling for the "russia is based and trad" propaganda.

>>64461926
I'm pretty sure California's population is larger than Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Idaho and Montana combined. They will take the water they need through contracts or force just like they do now

>>64461699
>percent change
>2019 - 2023

>>64461605
>retarded sivul wer 2 scenario actually happens
>everyone agrees to flatten nyc instead of fighting eachother
>new american golden age
i find this aggreeable
t. wny

>>64461079 (OP)
The South regularly gets butt-fucked by hurricanes and then begs for a bailout. Enjoy your lack of AC.

>>64461091
The modern day northern states produce more food than the southern

>>64461838
Ok, let's say everyone gets one year to relocate THEN the was starts

>>64464474
>relocating a double-digit percentage of the US population in a single year
>being war-ready at the end of it
Why not give everyone flying unicorns while you're at it?

>>64461079 (OP)
civil war in 2025 america will never be about state lines it will a total chaos of multiple insurgencies fighting each other some will be against the fed some will ally with them, some local governments might secede
i also think that there might be foreign "peace keepers" as in china russia venezuela cuba

>>64461914
>for five straight years now
never once did i see a ukraine thread in 2020

>>64461079 (OP)
the population centers are entirely propped up by white people commuting from the red suburbs to the blue city. if the cities turned into war zones most white people would just stop going to work, the federal government's tax base disappearing overnight. the cities would tear themselves apart without anyone really needing to do anything. the federal government will come cracking down hard before they allow this to happen though in the form of actually forcing state governments to enforce the law

>>64461091
You realize their is a world outside that will get priced out of food before the north (or non rural us in general) get hungry?

>>64461091
Do you have any idea how much food is produced in Iowa, Illinois, and Indiana combined? The Midwest could feed the whole world.

>>64464474
that's retarded

anyway the nobody wins because the war is being fought for no reason but to appease billionaires and nobody is going to have personal stakes in the fight unless they're -literally- a nazi, insane, or retarded

idk what happened to this shithole but we used to celebrate the vaporization of nazis and commies, with the only plus side of either being the nazis made some neat stuff and helped us make rockets

Reality check OP: there is no "north" and "south" anymore. People don't identify that strongly with their states compared to the 1800s, national identities have eaten everything. "Blue states" and "red states" is retarded and glosses over everything, if you drill down to the county level it becomes way more obvious how fucking dumb civil war retards are.

Pic related. We're all mixed up as one country. The reddest states and bluest states still have sizable blue and red aspects. People have their own local issues as well. Civil wars fucking suck and absolutely everyone would lose badly on an absolute level, as would America itself. The military draws from not merely all over America but tons and tons of immigrants as well.

Democracy is messy but that's because we are messy. It's much, much better to just settle things by voting without trying to restrict and suppress people's votes and let the "battles" play out with words.

>ITT: Fantasizing by southern vermin still seething from the last civil war
All the Union states in that pic are today (and even back then kek) still vastly whiter than all the confederate states... this alone guarantees an awful loss for southerners. Laughably, it's the reason why some of the more intelligent southern inbreds ITT are coping in advance by hoping to strike alliances with armed northerners and foster divisions up north. The realistic outcome would be yet another razing of multiple southern "cities" followed by another 160 years of seething and suffering a profound superiority complex towards northerners.

>>64461091
As if California won’t use the situation to import a new class of slaves to produce food for the northeast…

>>64464145
That's a major gamble that they could secure both water infrastructure before it is destroyed and control the water resources all the way to their sources to prevent upstream redirection quick enough to prevent supply issues.

>Another civil war thread with the same exact posts, same exact culture war bait, and some very suspect posts by all the board's resident schizos
Who keeps making these threads?

>>64464884
Who said anything about being war ready?

Another think to add. Since this is going to be civil was 2.0 should the South then be allowed to reinstate slavery? Because that'll be a pretty big boost to their productivity and might make up for production disadvantages.

>>64466221
Slavery is the reason they were so underdeveloped to begin with, so be my guest.

>>64466370
While slavery was a drag on their economy, Dutch disease was a much bigger issue for the CSA.

>>64461556
>Arizona wheat
What the fuck are you even on about? None of that makes any sense. First off the idea that Arizona of all places would have wheat production that would be strategically useful is stupid (in fucking 1860s no less when it was barely fucking settled), or the idea that Jews were already there and economically set up. Arizona was basically a fake Confederate territory since the Santa Fe clowns couldn't manage the southern and western settlements of the New Mexico Territory.
>>64461926
The Central Valley doesn't need imported water, the Imperial Valley does but that already gets it from the Colorado River that flows there anyway.
>>64466139
People who use Sherman to shit on Dixiephiles are fucking retarded as Sherman was a massive Dixieboo and hated the war. It's like when people talk about "disregard for plebeians" and use that picture of the Gracci Brothers post. Absolute ignorance.

Something recently occurred to me, if a second civil war breaks out, that would basically be the closest you can get to a golden opportunity for Russia and/or China to launch a nuclear attack on the United States and stand a reasonable chance of achieving strategic surprise.

Think about it, if you're having fighting all over the country. There's a pretty good chance that early warning systems will wind up compromised (be it false alarms or the actual systems being destroyed or taken offline due to someone flying an FPV into a satellite dish or even simply deferred maintenance), and that's to say nothing of potential paralysis of political and military leadership.

>>64466529
What’s the need with the US balkanized?

The US owes its dominance due to significant industrialization in the 1800’s forming the base for a huge post-WW2 boom. But as of now we’re missing a lot of the know-how to accomplish major projects and our industrial base has significant portions outsourced. After a major economic disruption, would we build back in an expensive, self-sufficient way, or would we use imports as a crutch and become even more dependent on them? Is building millions of bombs to drop on Turdies and fomenting civil wars in other nations even going to be a priority?
It wouldn’t take much to take the US out of its current dominant spot of policing the entire world to its own advantage.

It’s like saying, “Wasn’t the collapse of the Soviet Union a great chance to nuke Russia?” Why would we nuke Russia when the result of the collapse is a kleptocracy held together by a murderous, psychopathic midget; and the internal corruption means they can’t even take over Ukraine?

>>64466662
>What’s the need with the US balkanized?

To prevent any American successor state from rising as potential threat ever again?

>>64461079 (OP)
Can only imagine that a couple of drunk (Grant) and crazy (Sherman) Ohioans would swoop down South and fucking handle it again.

>>64461574
>Midwesterners just want to be left alone
As a Kansan I assure you I would love to slaughter Bushwhackerfags and Soonerfags as my ancestors did. Cornhuskers and Mountain Jews can get it to while we’re on the subject. 2-0 bitches. Keep your niggers out of my state.

>>64466694
Salting the Earth is very rare in human history. The male ego seems to prefer operating under the delusion that it can outcompete any opponent from an even or superior position. We just don’t go out of our way to kick someone when they’re down.

>>64466139
>>64466708
>>64466711

OH NO NO NO NO NO NO

>>64466872
>A webm depicting the death of a US soldier in North Africa
I don't quite get what your argument is, but then again you seething foreigner shills never ever make sense anyway.

>>64461865
if you look at small arms and automotive manufacturing the south is way ahead now.

>>64461091
Even ignoring the food both sides can produce for themselves. The rest of the world doesn't stop existing just because a civil war happens and the days of naval blockades are long over. Both sides can just import what they need to the north and south where thier enemy has no chance of gaining a stable blockade.