Thread 64461730

Looks like the bickering within the FCAS project is not stopping anytime soon.

>Our partner has been very open that they’re not happy with the work share that was agreed for the program, and they’re asking for something different, which is not what was agreed
>If Dassault Aviation is unhappy with the next generation fighter jet project FCAS, they have the option to exit
This is what Airbus SE Chief Executive Officer Guillaume Faury had to say to Dassault Aviation CEO Eric Trappier after the latter spent the better part of the past 6 months complaining about the project.

Is FCAS doomed? Will Germany, Spain and Sweden go their own way, buy the F-47 or join GCAP? Would they even be allowed into GCAP seeing how smooth that program has been so far?

>>64461730 (OP)
Based. Get fucked frogoids.

>Dassault is bitching and moaning about muh workshare and le we can actually do it ourselves
>If you don't like it, leave
It's based as fuck but I think this is just another step into getting the thing canceled

>>64462045
Only due to budgetary reasons. The biggest meme in this debacle is the frogs thinking they are the only ones with experience in building a fighter jet. They only have experience in being booted off the Eurofighter program and selling an incomplete Eurofighter, the Rafale. Which we all saw how it immediately shat the bed the moment it was used in a conflict.

>>64462082
I don't really care for the rafale (lol frogs couldn't figure out a retractable refueling boom lmao) but I think that the fact that they were flown by jeet pilots is too much of a confounding variable to tell if they're actually worse than the chink plane. jeets could lose an F-22 to sopwith camel

>>64461730 (OP)
>Is FCAS doomed?
Germany should tell the French that FCAS is theirs and ask Britain if they could join or see if the Swedish would be willing to double up on their 6th fighter program

Frogs probably thought this time they had cornered Germans with the engine given the absence of RR.

>>64461730 (OP)
It’s worth noting this isn’t at the intergovernmental level but rather the French CEO of the partially French Airbus telling the wholly French Dassault that they’re being an ass. I believe this is the first time they are catching shit from a major player in French aerospace rather than German or Spanish aerospace, which could actually bode well for the program.

>>64462600
Interesting revelation. I think it signals program death if they don't stfu. It's risking other French businesses and indicates a French subsidiary (Airbus) won't play ball with their own program.

>>64461730 (OP)
Genuinely impressive at how far they're willing to jeopardize the future of air security for their egos.

>>64461730 (OP)
Why are we like that ? Can't wait to leave this shithole

>>64462613
This is the french we are talking about. You shouldn't be surprised. They're a face society, not a results society.

>>64462600
>I believe this is the first time they are catching shit from a major player in French aerospace
I've dealt in similar situations. I would bet a good amount of money the message was from both Germany and Spain, but the delivery was from the French CEO to "dull" the blow of the statement. Kinda like a signal that they are tired of this charade, but there is still room to talk, meanwhile if such an hard comment was made by someone in Germany it would've attracted unrelated nationalistic issues.

>>64462082
>The biggest meme in this debacle is the frogs thinking they are the only ones with experience in building a fighter jet
Frogs retained their own industry and know-how and continued to built fighter jets. When was the last time Airbus did such a project? 30 years ago with the Typhoon?

>>64462806
What frontline fighter jet (or even trainer) did France build after the Rafale?

>>64461730 (OP)
We have been through the exact same shit before with the eurofighter development.

Apparatly we haven't learned.

>>64462082
>a singular battle involving the Rafale still lives rent free in the heads of NAFOxirs months later
Meanwhile American and British garbage gets shredded on a regular basis in Ukraine.

>>64462898
>FCAS thread
>vatnik snowflake has an immediate meltdown about ukraine and NATO
ok?

>>64462898
>NAFO
Get some better material bunkertranny
>American and British garbage gets shredded on a regular basis in Ukraine
Do not look up how much russian garbage got blown up in Ukraine

This post >>64462898 is too retarded to be real...
It has to be a falseflag.

>>64462945
He probably misread it as FAS and thought it was a thread about russia

>>64462806
>Frogs retained their own industry and know-how and continued to built fighter jets
thats great and all but who cares when you can only produce a handful of fighters at extreme costs every year when your competition can build better and cheaper?

>>64462898
>Meanwhile American and British garbage gets shredded on a regular basis in Ukraine.

Dassault survives on gibs from the French state and now the French government can't afford to subsidise them, they know their days are numbered
Airbus just has to play a waiting game and they'll be able to buy up the parts of the company's assets they want through the French part of Airbus, or see it nationalised rather than sold to a foreign buyer.

No doubt Trappier will want to sell the IP Airbus want to China first, because they'll pay more and he's a greedy kike

>>64462898
>immediate butthurt about a particular Rafale loss
>pro-zigger cope photos saved on his computer
You wouldn't happen to be Indian, would you anon?

>>64461730 (OP)
Of course France would leave, it was settled 2 years ago already. Imagine being so cucked you tie yourself balls deep with IBM jews. Then again, we're talking about a country that decided to close down their clean nuclear power plants because they were afraid of fucking tsunamis in Bayern.

>>64463222
>implying that Bloch (Dassault) isn't...
Oh whatever.

>>64462898
>Future Combat Air System thread
>Autistic Vatnik screeching about Ukraine
Something blew-up in Russia didn't it :)

>>64461730 (OP)

Remember, how MGCS was hailed as the Second Coming?
>The first piece of information shared during this hearing revealed that for the MGCS (Main Ground Combat System), " under German leadership [...] the end of this year, or even the beginning of next year, will also be crucial." What is presented as a new turning point for this program is, in fact, just the latest twist in a project initiated more than nine years ago. Among the "crucial" years for the MGCS, we can cite 2015, the year KNDS was created; 2019, the year Rheinmetall entered the project; and 2020, which saw the signing of a (first) ministerial agreement concerning architectural studies. In 2021, the outgoing German Parliament, due to elections, did not approve the project's funding, leaving it to the next parliamentarians to do so, thus creating a further delay in the program. In 2022, the possible arrival of a fourth partner in the project was discussed, linked to tensions surrounding the awarding of the MILSA ( MGCS Industrial Lead System Architecture). This already long list was further supplemented, according to Berlin's prevailing mood, by statements of widely varying nature, including those of Ralf Ketzel, CEO of KNDS, for whom the MGCS is essentially a political project.
https://blablachars.blogspot.com/2025/10/2025-encore-une-annee-perdue.html?m=1

It's time for frogbros to bail out before these autistic thieves murder Dassault.

>>64461730 (OP)

Remember, how that other joint project, one hailed on 4chan as the Second Coming? Ten years later somehow Leopards are dominating the market again, Leclerc is DOA just as the French tank industry and MGCS?
>The first piece of information shared during this hearing revealed that for the MGCS (Main Ground Combat System), " under German leadership [...] the end of this year, or even the beginning of next year, will also be crucial." What is presented as a new turning point for this program is, in fact, just the latest twist in a project initiated more than nine years ago. Among the "crucial" years for the MGCS, we can cite 2015, the year KNDS was created; 2019, the year Rheinmetall entered the project; and 2020, which saw the signing of a (first) ministerial agreement concerning architectural studies. In 2021, the outgoing German Parliament, due to elections, did not approve the project's funding, leaving it to the next parliamentarians to do so, thus creating a further delay in the program. In 2022, the possible arrival of a fourth partner in the project was discussed, linked to tensions surrounding the awarding of the MILSA ( MGCS Industrial Lead System Architecture). This already long list was further supplemented, according to Berlin's prevailing mood, by statements of widely varying nature, including those of Ralf Ketzel, CEO of KNDS, for whom the MGCS is essentially a political project.
https://blablachars.blogspot.com/2025/10/2025-encore-une-annee-perdue.html?m=1

It's time for frogbros to bail out before these autistic thieves murder Dassault as well.

>>64461730 (OP)
>buy the F-47
Oh, God. I don't think my dick can handle F-47's in German markings.

>>64463476
Forgot WEBM.

>>64462898
>Meanwhile American and British garbage gets shredded on a regular basis in Ukraine.

>>64461730 (OP)
>buy the F-47
It won't be for sale.

>>64463305
>blablachars.blogspot.com
lmao. Can you stop pretending to be a neutral observer you annoying butthurt Polish f-a-g-g-o-t?
Leclerc production was already ended years ago while Leopard 2 production always kept running, it wasn't killed in any way by this program like you try to insinuate. It's so obvious that like 99% of Poles you're simply asshurt at anything German.

>>64463484
>that exhaust
Holy mother of sex

>>64462186
The other plane was flown by a Paki though.
>>64461730 (OP)
Everyone is going to buy the F-47 (except the Forgs out of spite). All those European, Japanese or Russian projects will never amount to anything. None of these countries could even make a 5th gen fighter. Hell, Euros can’t even build cargo planes anymore since they’re all buying the Brazilian C-390.

>>64463123
>when your competition can build better and cheaper
Can they? What's Germanys jet output?

>>64464339
>buy the F-47
I think it's going to be like the F-22 where America doesn't sell them.

>>64462898
Russians are angey babies (part 1)

>>64463123
>when your competition can build better and cheaper
what competition though? not airbus

>>64462898
>>64464361
Russians are angey babies (part 2)

>>64463305
>Leclerc production: 1992 - 2008
>Leopard 2 production: 1979 to present
>MGCS started in 2012
Yes. Clearly a project that started four years after Leclerc production ended is to blame for the fact that Leopards 2 continue to be produced. Maybe the fact that the Leclerc has three operators compared to the Leopard‘s two dozen might be more relevant?

>>64464352
The people will buy whatever the F-35 of the sixth generation will be.

Dassault thought they could bully their way into whatever settlement they wanted with eurozone countries, because it worked for backwater turd world shitholes. They're the defense contractor equivalent of the grade school bully thinking he could beat an adult

>>64464384
Hilarious how they thought that they can extort concessions from fucking Airbus.

>>64464371
We have F-47 and F/A-XX
which will become Raptor and which will become Lightning-II?

>one of those is Air Force the other one is Navy; it's a bad analogy
work with me a little.

>>64464364
Gooks, Burgers or maybe even [spoiler]Chinks[/spoiler]

>>64464352
I don't they can afford to do that in this world where everything costs ridiculous amounts.

>>64463222
Except frogniggers seems really quiet about buying crucial US techs whenever it suits them.
> https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/10/france-plans-to-order-3rd-emals-catapult-track-for-future-aircraft-carrier/
The very same carrier class that frogniggers demanding concession from their partners about muh catapult/carrier compatibility, right ?

How about frogniggers simply admit it's all about dominating other partners not too dissimilar to the us position within f35 program, except the us also forked out like 95% of the cost.
And we all know too well by now that frogniggers and Dassault, to be more specific, is too broke to foot anything more than 50% of the bill.
So trappier can either cough up enough money if he wants 80% of the workshare(lol he can't) or getting pooed by the call center scammers.

>>64464369
Why didn't anyone buy leclerc?

>>64464406
the French MiC strategy is geard towards keeping their own alive at the minimal cost for the state. as a result it's is geared towards orders from the French military and only the French military. whom in turn orders enough to keep the MiC going until it needs a replacement.
as such starting up more production capacity for exports is a risk, the French government isn't going to bail you out if it fails. nor is the French military willing to delay taking possession of the equipment it ordered because you want to use the production line to fit in some foreign orders. as such exports come towards the end of the production life of the equipment. at that point it's no longer the hot new thing and there are better offerings to be had elsewhere.

tl:dr French MiC policy is very conservative

>>64464415
>nor is the French military willing to delay taking possession of the equipment it ordered because you want to use the production line to fit in some foreign orders
Naval Group literally did that for the Greek frigates

>>64464386
>which will become Lightning-II?
I think it'll just be the F-35, at least for a while

>>64464416
naval has more build capacity than the French navy has buying power
but again naval could not and would not survive without the orders it gets from the French navy

the issue with both the FCAS and the MGCS is that the French and Germans have different goals and priorities. But they are forced to work together on bigger projects due to both political and economic incentives.
MGCS is THE replacement for an aging French tank fleet.
but for the Germans it's just a more modern tank. because they still have active production lines for the Leo II's going.
same with FCAS it is THE replacement of the rafale.
but for the Germans they could make do with just buying some more F35's
this leads to different priorities and demands that then cause problems and frictions.

>>64461730 (OP)
This is tradition at this point. It'd be bigger news if they didn't bicker and fall out!

>>64464386
Ferrari F-35 will be the F-35

>>64462806
>Frogs retained their own industry and know-how and continued to built fighter jets
As opposed to Germany and Spain who both were in the Eurofighter program? Why are all frogs so retarded?

>>64463476
>>64463484
>boeing
it will never fly, they aren't even able to built a trainer anymore.

>>64464448
Probably the true answer, bravo

>>64464421
I think you're also saying the same, but should've mentioned the "ferrari" upgrade.

>>64464448
Locksneed still can't deliver the block 4 after so many years of delays and you expect them to be trusted with a retarded concept made to please Trump like a twin engine F-35?

>>64461730 (OP)
>french arms developers
>shitting on foreign programs
At least this time they didn't get all the funding to make their parts of the program before ducking out and using them for themselves.

>>64461730 (OP)
FCAS is fucking dead at this point.

>>64464602
You have no idea what you're talking about if you think an upgrade will involve anything with a twin engine. Whether they can deliver on time is another question, but it's a capability for after block 4.
https://www.airandspaceforces.com/lockheed-self-funding-prototypes-f-35/

>>64464397
Gooks can not develop their own aircraft with support, for example they are using American engines.

>Same people that complained about not being able to rely on the US are doing the same shit the US does
Its always about power and control, Europe is full of people that want their country to control the rest, no center in Europe etc.

>>64462806
>Frogs retained their own industry and know-how and continued to built fighter jets. When was the last time Airbus did such a project? 30 years ago with the Typhoon?
The way you say it seems to indicate that you think, the development experience of the French is somehow fresher. You do realize that the Eurofighter is newer than the Rafale, yes? First flight 1994 vs 1986. So the better question would be: When was the last time Dassault did such a project? 40 years ago with the Rafale? With the French retirement age it is guaranteed that every single Rafale developer is now a pensioner. There might be some Eurofighter developers still in employment.

>>64465303
That's always been France. Whenever they cry about "buying european" they mean buying french. Everytime there is a joint project where they are not the lead they destroy it. Whenever there is a group procurement they sabotage it if they are not buying french products.
France is right in what they say, about the EU needing to decouple from the US and become self sufficient. But they don't mean it in the slightest, they only want to control Europe while they cannot even have stability in their own country.

>>64462806
Hey, muhammed, care to reply to >>64462809 ?
>Frogs retained their own industry and know-how and continued to built fighter jets
They didn't

>Germany ties funding for MGCS and FCAS together
>Germany decides they don't actually want MGCS and stop paying for it
>This halts funding for FCAS as well
>Dassault points out that they don't actually need German input, just German funding, and if the Germans aren't going to pay they should just fuck off
>Airbus tells Dassault to fuck off and they'll just finish it with Spanish money
I hate frogs as much as the next guy, but trying to spin this shitshow as anyone but the German government's fault is delusional.

>>64465681
>I hate frogs as much as the next guy,
You clearly don’t since you immediately defend them with a bunch of cope bullshit. France thought they could bully their way through and now they are getting put in their place, it’s as simple as that

>>64462002
?
Airbus is French
Guillaume Faury is French
Dassault leaving the European consortium and making another plane of their own is the absolute best that could happen lol
>>64464339
>Euros can’t even build cargo planes anymore since they’re all buying the Brazilian C-390
Airbus A400M mogs your C-390 wtf are you talking about
the only EU country who bought the C-390 is Portugal because... they literally participated in the plane development
try again monkey

>>64462082
>The biggest meme in this debacle is the frogs thinking they are the only ones with experience in building a fighter jet.
where did they say that? or you are just talking out of your ass?
>They only have experience in being booted off the Eurofighter program
they literally left by themselves to build a better plane on their own hahaha, keep seething
>Which we all saw how it immediately shat the bed the moment it was used in a conflict.
the Rafale was used in multiple conflicts and different configurations retard

to be fair even the latest Mirage versions are better than the Eurofighter

good to see our butthurt belt is still in need of group therapy sessions

>>64463170
>Dassault survives on gibs from the French
as opposed to Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Airbus, SAAB, etc... who never ever saw a cent of public money. am I right? lmao fucking clown
>they know their days are numbered
with the total number of orders they received in the past two years they are assured to still be here in the next 15 years at the very least.
>No doubt Trappier will want to sell the IP Airbus want to China first, because they'll pay more and he's a greedy kike
ok

>>64465767
Is this the same blog with no verified actual document other than the very same dubious table that frogniggers keep spamming for eternity, lol ?
Also
> still posting tranche 1 vs rafail f3
let's start comparing tranche 2 and tranche 3, which is actually making up the majority of the fleet, shall we.
And even at tranche 1 barebone airframe, it still mog rafail in A2A performance, lol
Nice self-own btw, frognigger

>>64465807
forgot link
> https://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2012/02/switzerland-evaluation-report-quick.html

>NWA phase I is the first 2008 evaluation with real flight trials
Yep, tranche 1 were being used in those trials, and that's assuming the table datas are even real and totally not being made up by dassault kikes, btw

AI hallucinations think Germany is just posturing.

>>64464404
>Except frogniggers seems really quiet about buying crucial US techs whenever it suits them.
Macron said he will announce the IDEA of purchasing one emals catapult track for the FUTURE aircraft carrier which they didn't even STARTED to build yet on the annual Christmas speech because it is a very very very important news that every French citizen awaits to hear about

lol,
lmao even

>>64464384
>Dassault thought they could bully their way into whatever settlement they wanted with eurozone countries, because it worked for backwater turd world shitholes. They're the defense contractor equivalent of the grade school bully thinking he could beat an adult
another monkey who doesn't understand that this is all an act and Dassault is just pushing to find a good excuse to leave the project to make their own jet just like they did with the Rafale
>>64464385
Airbus is French, so it doesn't matter

>>64465816
They are.

They're too pussy to back out now as it would be essentially killing their domestic fighter aircraft manufacturing/development capabilities.

For pure $ value they should drop france like a rock and go buy GCAP with a massive early order, but they wont.

>>64464506
>>64462082
>>64465423
the Eurofighter critical systems are using French technology from Airbus, Safran and Thales. lol.
>>64465423
Rafale is a brand, not a single model
>>64464611
why are you lying

>>64465827
>>64465741
>>64465835
>airbus is french
>because the ceo is a frog muncher !!!
Lmao, is this a new cope script ?
Also, absolutely do not, in any case, ever look up the HQ of airbus defense&space, the one actually in charge of Fcas and and NGF development for german and spaniard side

>>64465820
?

Faury is a fucking g*rm plant despite his name. Not only Germany completely changed the previous in 2019 through the Bundestag favoring MTU at the expense of Safran even though everything was settled already, they also shat on Spain (even though they brought them in) through Faury when the Spanish government choose Indra Sistema instead of the local Airbus branch (well, would you look at that! They wanted more control and dilute everyone else!). All the g*rms want is full control and suck off the knowledge. They can fuck off, they should partner with their beloved Kebabs, maybe together they'll be able to build a jet engine running on Grill Döner. Imagine the smell.

>>64465807
>>64465813
keep coping
like above said, the Typhoon depends on Airbus, Safran and Thales for critical parts. HAHAHA

>>64461730 (OP)
What is the technology this plane has that would make it "next gen"?

>>64465681
Careful You gonna upset the nu-wehraboos. God forbid you tread on their freshly painted moral high ground.

>>64465855
>More spammings, copepastings and mindless ramblings
Sorry, didn't know a simple debunk could mindbreak you this hard.

>>64465867
>Poleniggers hopping on brownest dick he could find, just like what his ancestors did back in the day.
You should try some of that yellow dick, as the case with worst Korea. Last I heard k2pl absolutely shat the bed btw

Can low IQ jeetards stop using "AI" already. Last time I used it to list publicly available products (camera lenses) having certain characteristics, all accessible on the manufacturer's plain HTML webpage, it listed everything wrong. Not a single one listed had the asked characteristics.
I won't even delve into the absolute shit code it gave me when I asked a simple VB script. On top of forgetting closing parenthesis. How in the FUCK are you a machine and you fucking forgot closing parenthesis. Any dumb code editor has been doing this for 25 years already.
Death to AIjeets.

>>64465877
Stop asking AI math questions you fucking moron, they're large LANGUAGE models, not math models.

They're meant to parse/interpret text, once you throw a bunch of numbers in there you're just asking for it to start hallucinating.

>>64465847
another one who doesn't know anything about Airbus.
Airbus D&S is a subsidiary of Airbus.
the place where everything about Airbus projects are decided, started, managed, designed and manufactured for the MOST part is Blagnac, near Toulouse in France. the HQ for financial services and tax reasons is located in the Netherlands.
why Toulouse? because this is where the biggest European aerospace company called "Aérospatiale-Matra" was manufacturing its planes before merging with 2 minor spanish and german companies, creating EADS before it was renamed AIRBUS.

next message you are going to tell me ArianeGroup and Arianespace are also not French? LOL

>>64465868
what debunk? the only thing you can reply is "uhh uhhh mmm okayy.. bububbb butt it must be something made up by the frogs!"

Airbus, Thales and Safran are in the Eurofighter
Rafale > Eurofighter
let's that sink in

>>64465705
>France is getting put in their place by France
do you even read yourself

>>64465889
> subject deflecting
> muh ariane
And what does it have anything to do with my argument ?
Airbus defense and space, especially the jet fighter division, remain dominantly in Germs hand.
Did Ariane ever have anything to do with fixed-wing jet in the first place ? If so, wtf would you bring them into the discussion?

>>64465901
> absolutely mindbroken

care to provide a source, achmed ?
other than the same copepasta you frogniggers has been defecating for years on every single platform ?

>>64465906
Are you illiterate?

>>64465911
>analogy is a concept his brain cannot comprehend
I accept your concession

>>64465921
>French company is getting put in their place by another French company with a French CEO
do you know about critical thinking

>>64465911
>too many words his smooth brain can't process them all
what is a subsidary anon? once you have answered the question you may read the post one more time but this time aloud and as slow as possible to make sure all words fits in your small ass brain.

>>64465932
Ok it’s clear you are, so I won’t ask further

>>64465925
Comparing a rocket company where german hasn't been actively engaging nearly as much as a totally german jet fighter division who had a hand in building the best 4G air superiority airframe is somehow an analogy
in that case, why didn't your mom take up a firearm and start driving the brown horde out of france, maybe that would help with improving its average room temperature IQ, as you are clearly showing rn

>>64465919
https://disco-legacy-data.s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/public/upload/1/2/12332.pdf

>>64465945
No, i'm asking about muh thales, safran in EF, you illiterate neger

>>64465919
sing after me:
Airbus, Safran and Thales are in the Eurofighter!
PIRATE FLIR and IRST are made by Thales
landing system, gear and shock absorbers is made by Safran
I could go on...

>>64465935
Nope, the ball is still in your court to prove how Airbus has total control over ADS ?
No deflecting

>>64465945
>>64465964
> achmed is mindbroken
I welcome your concession, for once

>>64465941
speaks about IQ but doesn't know what an analogy is and gets mad about it. many such cases.

>>64465951
>care to provide a source, achmed ?
>other than the same copepasta you frogniggers has been defecating for years on every single platform ?
uh yeah, you sure are asking for a very detail source here but ok.
anyways, your source :
Safran
https://www.safran-group.com/products-services/eurofighter-typhoon-main-landing-gears
Thales
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWxSsp7Ogyk

>>64465983
>Achmed bragging about anything except IQ
lol
lmao, even
and that's definitely not the analogue that you can make to prove your case, dimwit

>>64465988
>analogue

>>64465974
>>64465988
you are arguing like a pajeet, something tell me your name isn't very english at all...

>>64465985
good, and ?
> https://martin-baker.com/ejection-seats/mk-f16f/
> Inb4 not count !
> Muh Indigenous rafail
>>64465990
>>64465993
except a jeet would be frantically defending his beloved rafail instead

>>64465741
>Airbus is French
Bwahahahahaha. France arrogance knows no limits.

>>64465767
>again with that made up picture where the source is a random blog who admits of having no source for any of the claims
Jesus Christ, you're on the same level of armatard/malay schizo.

The Caliphate of Gaul killed another military project due to their incompetence, arrogance and sheer faggotry. All Hail the only European 6th gen program that will actually fly.

>>64466132
FCAS was doomed the moment GCAP was born. The only 3 countries outside the US with actual experience in both developing and manufacturing a 5th gen fighter are the UK, Italy, and Japan and we did a menage a trois.
France will need to keep flying their Rafails into the 2080s, if their country doesn't collapse before that.

ALL HAIL GCAP
ALL HAIL LELOUCH
ALL HAIL BRITANNIA

>>64466011
the F-35 has plenty of parts built from Leonardo in Italy, Terma in Denmark, the Netherlands, Kongsberg in Norway, Magellan in Canada, Marand in Australia and I shit you not, even Chinese components
at the end of the day, it still remains an American fighter jet
>rafail
1 Rafale down amongst a fleet of 50 during Operation Sindoor fuckfest party. this in 40 years of existence and plenty of special operations across the globe = rafail. kek.

>all this Frog Vs Kraut autism
Keeek

>>64466156
>ORU HAIRU BURITTANIA!
ORU HAIRU BURITTANIA!
>ORU HAIRU BURITTANIA!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=CCIK0jg-yxk

>>64466119
>again with that made up picture where the source is a random blog who admits of having no source for any of the claims
why are you lying? it literally came from the Swiss Air Force and talked about non stop on RTS and such during the F-35 national scandal: https://disco-legacy-data.s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/public/upload/1/2/12332.pdf

>>64466240
>1 Rafale down
>https://xcancel.com/swiftretort1/status/1923367877274431980
Luckily, thanks to mujeets meticulously listing, we now get that at least 3 rafails has been downed
And no EF loss despite in service with RAF and saudi af with actual combat records to boot.
Hmm, maybe the SPECTRA shouldnt have failed so SPECTACULARLY ? :^)

>>64466156
>The only 3 countries outside the US with actual experience in both developing and manufacturing a 5th gen fighter are the UK, Italy, and Japan
None of those countries have developed or manufactured a 5th gen fighter, though. Unless you mean building F-35 parts, in which case there's a lot more than those three.

>>64466311
>Luckily, thanks to mujeets meticulously listing

you literally linked a chain of tweets from a Paki propagandist HAHAHAHAHAH
you are such a fucking clown its hilarious

IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE FROM MY SCREENSHOTS SAAAAARRR!!!

>>64466318
2 of those 3 countries, UK and Italy are literally the ones who developed and built most of the F35 outside of the US. And all of them are the only ones with a FACO.
Building parts and having been in actual development is not the same.

>>64466297
The PDF you linked compares Euro jets against old Swiss Hornets.
(lol they were found old Hornets to perform better than Gripen)

>>64466297
>it literally came from the Swiss Air Force
Nope, there is zero sources of that pic, or the data within that can be traced back to anything but a random blog post

>>64466367
Not to mention the latest rafale against literal tranche 1 eurofighters. But hey, the poor frogs have to do whatever they can to try and stay afloat and trying to sell their incomplete eurofighter knockoff. I just wish they would sooner or later learn how to make retractable refuel probes, or a functional EW suite.

>>64466372
gave you the link, but yea, it doesn't exist as long as it doesn't fit your narrative
I accept your concession

>>64466358
> Not a single refuting
> Even more caps and ramblings
I accept your concession. That post just work too well to counter any frognigger spam

>>64466393
>link doesn't prove anything
>still wants to be right
I accept YOUR concession. Any further replies by you will make me further accept your concessions.

I already had my bet done with the pastas, 11s and engerlonders, FCAS was a guaranteed flop.

>>64461730 (OP)
How is it possible for france to ruin every single project they are in?

truly hilarious to live rent free in the head of neo-vaginas on /k/ 24 hours a day
eternal reminder: pookraine lost, great shitstain, cuckmany and the rest of the trannyropean union are the laughing stock of the planet and most importantly you will NEVER be a woman

>>64466395
https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/2024-indian-jet-crash-image-falsely-shared-pakistan-downed-indian-jet-may-2025-2025-05-13/
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c93g3jk39dko
https://observers.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20250512-india-pakistan-conflict-rafale-fighter-jets-shot-down-images-debunked
https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-game-clip-shared-real-footage-indian-jet-being-downed-2025-05-15/

they even took footage from ARMA 3 looooooool
the only validated wreckage they found was a fucking Airbus DROP TANK LMAO

pls keep posting more propaganda that's actually funny mohammed

>>64466443
Is this also fake?

>>64466437
Go prep my morning pastry, chop chop

>>64466443
> strawman argument
> muh arma
Care to tell what arma has to do with that post, Saar ?
> NOOOOO, well-fed hindu supa soldier with cow dunk donuts totally destroyed 600 mujeet bases and killed 6 gorillions mujeet pawns, trast mi saaar !!!

>>64464347
>>64464364
as the other anon said, they're competing with the global market like the swedes, americans, chinks, etc.
most of them have better planes, costs, and/or production rates

>>64466437
>>64466358
>>64466443
Kek jeet be having a melty today

>>64466311
>And no EF loss despite in service with RAF and saudi af with actual combat records to boot.
When has it been used for anything but bombing durkas with AK's? It's like bragging about bullying some kid half your age.
When "superior" british hardware ends up fighting against a peer opponent then... pic related, lol.

>>64466506
>Durkas with ak
Houthi sandniggers is a lot better equipped than your average muhammed le laurent that shot up Paris in 2015.
> deflecting to tanks, again
Want me to start spamming vatnigger tank losses webm ? Frog zeggroid ?

>>64466552
>xir only thought is about Russian tanks, because it turns out the finest piece of cucktish hardware is just as shitty
Kek.

>>64466565
> can’t stop thinking about trannies, even for a moment
What is it with zeggroids and their obsession with the 50% casualty rate horde ?

>>64466597
Because it makes your ass explode. The same way a shitty drone causes britshit tanks to toss their turret, lol.

I do enjoy FCAS threads.

>>64466565
A million ziggers are going to be gone forever.
Even one step toward TZD is a step toward the world healing.

And this is from April 2024...

>>64462600
>It’s worth noting this isn’t at the intergovernmental level but rather the French CEO of the partially French Airbus telling the wholly French Dassault that they’re being an ass.
This. The fact that corporate are just as tired of Dassault and French antics as politicians is rather new. Usually corporate just shuts the fuck up, at least in public, and lets politicians be the ones making grievances public.
>>64462801
I don't think it is odd at all if CEO of Airbus has a fucking interest in business of German and Spanish divisions of Airbus.

>>64467528
>I don't think it is odd at all if CEO of Airbus has a fucking interest in business of German and Spanish divisions of Airbus.
Wait, but frogniggers always told me Airbus is just a french company!

>>64461730 (OP)
I blame the perfidious teutons

>>64467936
KEK

>>64464339
>>64466905
France and Germany have more experience with fifth gens than the GCAP partners (UK, Italy and Japan), where none of the companies involved (BAE, Leonardo or Mitsubishi/IHI) have any experience as part of the original JSF design program or assembling F-35s locally

>>64467936
Beautiful

>>64467964
Why?
Both Spain and Germany joined the program under a contract, signed by Dassault and the French government that development, production and integration would've been shared equally. Then out of nowhere Dassault goes on a meltdown and wants both SP/DE to fully fund the project, but relinquish entirely their say in the project and their geo returns.
This will make SP and DE into literal cucks, who will only be able to buy a fighter that caters only to the french needs at a price MUCH MUCH MUCH higher than any potential third party customers would pay in the future.
Nobody in the world beside the french would ever be so arrogant and, honestly, utterly retarded to think someone would accept these conditions.
But french arrogance knows no limits, so you have people unironically shocked that SP/DE are not having it.
Give me a single reason why they should accept France terms when considering that since it's obvious at this point FCAS will never be a reality they are just going to buy either GCAP or the F-47, both of which will be available and flying decades before the first virtual prototype of FCAS will ever leave the CAD software?
This question is kryptonite to the french. Want them to leave a thread like the rats they are? ask them this question.

>>64467936
>message on chink flag
lol

>>64462898
Little jeet is still upset about losing the air skirmish with Pakistan lmao

>>64465767
>that image
ahh because the swiss in 2008 are the ultimate arbiters of which jet was better, if it was actually real lmao

>>64468014
>development, production and integration would've been shared equally.
You start your post with a blatant lie.

>>64468014
other annon
the Germans have delayed funding on several occasions
ie. the geramns get turbo autistic about the funding because "Ordnung muß sein, und wir haben ein 566-seitiges Handbuch, an das wir uns halten müssen."
the french frog out because they see the delays in funding as the germans not pursuing the deal in good faith
both are to blame the germans for not making sure the funding is on time and the french for over reacting
if you've ever worked with or had contact with a german public institution or any level of german governance/administration you will know that they aren't easy to work with

>french and germany start bickering like high school girls
>spain siestaing
Very funny

>>64468301
feel free to prove me wrong, muhammed.

>>64468404
It's because Spain has no real leverage in this deal, they were just added by Goymoney to give Airbus a greater share.

>>64468331
>the Germans have delayed funding on several occasions
Yes, in response to France not adhering to the agreed work share.

Turkey just bought 48 Eurofighters

>>64467978
>where none of the companies involved (BAE, Leonardo or Mitsubishi/IHI) have any experience as part of the original JSF design program or assembling F-35s locally
Except Leonardo, BAE, and Mitsubishi/IHI which all assemble/manufacture parts for the F-35 program.

>>64468519
it's bait

>>64468331
You frogs lie more than a jew

>>64468331
> t. Marcel Ferdinand (((Bloch)))

>>64471468
Maybe if Germans hadn't put him in a concentration camp they wouldn't have earned the undying enemity of Dassault

>>64465865
We're not gonna make it, are we?
Humans I mean

Unless we all vecome more epistemically disciplined we're gonna play decond fiddle to even basically competent grifters and psychopaths forever

>>64472508
Maybe that was 80+ years ago and atrocities and threats are elsewhere now?

>>64465865
>retarded zoomers already delegate their own thinking and research to glorified chatbots
We're doomed.

>>64472653
Meh, when used properly it's not too bad. Just don't accept everything it says at face value, but if you're simply asking it to parse/summarize articles from various sources, it'll do a decent job. Just be sure to verify sources and double check any statistics it uses.

>>64472660
so basically either trust made up information, since chatgpt makes up most of what it says from my tests, or spend 3x the time fact checking it compared of simply googling/doing your own research?

>>64472663
If you can't read an AI summary and fact check it faster than doing your own research, then you're probably retarded.

Doing your own research doesn't mean finding a single website or paper that says what you want it to say.

You need to go through a half dozen or more sources. ChatGPT can go through 20+ sources in 3 seconds, I then just need to verify through the sources it ALREADY gave me, that it's not hallucinating.

Sorry, but this sounds a lot more like you don't understand how the workflow should function, or you're just terrible/lazy with your own research.

I can get the AI generated content, fact check it in under 10 minutes and be 95% confident in the data its providing.

Sure I COULD spend 30-60+ minutes doing my own research, but for 4chan /k/ posts where most people are making shit up in the first place? That AI content will be more reliable and better sourced than 90% of /k/ posts.

>>64469274
>>64471468
I'm belgian, I own a small business that does public tenders for all level of government in most of the EU
the Germans are in my experience just unpleasant to work with because there isn't any flexibility and such a large amount of red tape that it takes ages to get things done including getting me paid.
when the spanish are more fun to work with it isn't a me problem it's you problem
>send mail to the address I've been provided as part of the tender because I want some info
>don't get a reply
>send an other one
>repeat this for 5 weeks
>finally get a scathing a-mail that I should direct my question to an other address
>the address isn't in the tender nor in any publicly available source
all it would have taken them was to just forward my mail to the right address but that isn't what germany does
>>64468437
no the funds that where allocated for the program had to be voted on in the Bundestag and that got delayed.
due to the delay the funds couldn't be freed in the year they where earmarked for. so they had to restart the process.
I've had this happen to me as well. invoices I send for tenders I've completed. but releasing the funds requires a vote and as soon as someone has a question or objection it can take months to get the funds released and then several weeks or months more to get them paid. if during the delay the budgetary year rolls over it starts over all over again.
if Germany wasn't such a large market I'd frankly stopped working with them entirely

the frogs for all their failing understand that if your e-mail starts with urgente they will get to it within the day well unless it's the summer vacation then you're just plain old fucked

>>64461730 (OP)
Based. Airbus can't make jet fighters anyway.

>>64472684
>no the funds that where allocated for the program had to be voted on in the Bundestag and that got delayed.
due to the delay the funds couldn't be freed in the year they where earmarked for. so they had to restart the process.

No it's both at the same time. Delays from the workshare disagreements are happening, and delays from Germany bureaucracy are both impacting the FCAS program.

Germany and Spain should break off and do their own loyal wingman (CCA) drones and then buy GCAP.

>>64472676
Chatgpt is notoriously bad at spidering. It completely misses sources and entire ecosystems I take for granted. Sure it can compile a list of slop that's relatively informative to someone who knows nothing about a topic, but if you have the slightest interest in a field, proofreading it to filter out the poisoned information wastes more time than doing things manually.

>>64472676
>zoomer having a melty for getting called out on not being able to think for himself
>is also a lying frog
lmao

>>64472748
Anon, I can assure you, I'm not a frog.

I'm also in my 30s.

>>64472747
In THIS specific instance, go ahead and try.

Find sources that can prove it wrong.

>>64472771
>filename
how new are you?

>>64472775
Anon... how new are YOU?

>>64472774
the lack of sources already prove it wrong, retarded zoomer. 90% of what is in your screenshots have no sources and are allucinated by the bot

>>64472771
>pakistani outs himself as a eurotrash retard who needs a jumped up spellchecker to tell him what to think
Lol. Shut the fuck up, noguns.

>>64472778
feel free to post a timestamped pic then.

>>64472785
Anon, that's an american passport behind the british one.

I'm also probably whiter than you, I can trace my family heritage to ~1430s england before the records get dubious.

>>64472793
Okay

>>64472804
nice ai generated pic

>>64472812
lmao if AI could generate passport book texture/color differences with subtlety like that already we would be seeing full AI TV shows and films.


Sorry you got BTFO with your made-up theory that i'm a frog.

>>64472817
you're a bong who relies on chatgpt, its not much of an upgrade...

>>64472804
>those pig hands
lose some weight ffs

>>64472784
I mean, it has sources if you ask it anon.

>>64472831
Anon, i'm 175lbs and 5'11".

By pure BMI, i'm not overweight (though i'm a little close).

>AI le BAD
luddites

>>64465741
>the only EU country who bought the C-390 is Portugal
Austria, Hungary, Netherlands, Czech Republic, Sweden, Slovakia and Lithuania are all buying C-390.
Portugal and Hungary are already operating theirs.

>>64472832
I see no links, nothing that can actually be verified. It's always like that with Chatgpt, you ask it to state at what line of the provided sources its statements come from and it immediately apologizes, saying it "inferred" but it actually meant that it outright made it up.
>>64472880
dumb zoomer, learn to think with your head. Ai, in this case is dumb. We use AI at work and it's great, but not when it's a LLMAI.

>>64472684
>>finally get a scathing a-mail that I should direct my question to an other address
>>the address isn't in the tender nor in any publicly available source
>all it would have taken them was to just forward my mail to the right address but that isn't what germany does
I have worked for Bignami and had to deal with German companies (both big and small) before when importing singular weapons there for private customers.
Learn from my mistakes, when they start doing that, immediately send a certified email saying that since they are not responding you'll be fowarding to [insert head company/superior] that [holder of email or office you're meant to face with] is willingly not doing his job and that you'll consider the whole deal/procedure cancelled by their party.
That works 99% of the times, they'll immediately phone you in and profusely apologize and do everything they were meant to do. Do not fear to break "email etiquette", threaten them, make shit up like "as per our previous phone call" etc. You've gotta fight fire with fire.

>>64472731
I'm sure that workshare disagreement doesn't help.
but place yourself in the shoes of the French.
the Germans agree to provide x funding on y date. they don't, it's always late due to a mix of how they do things in Germany. those are Germany problem that Germany should know can happen and Germany should take into a account to make sure the money gets there on y day. but they don't
this causes problem for the program and when you tell them they just shrug and point to the red tape they know is there. but don't want to take into account when trying to get the funds released on time.
at that point you can assume that the Germans aren't acting in good faith
so why should they retain their workshare? they can't pay their bills on time and clearly can't be bothered to do so.
>>64472922
Yea I just call them and keep them online until they tell me what I need to know or who to call or re-mail.
point being we both know how anally retentive Germans can be and how you have to force them to get shit done.
one can assume it's just the same with their MiC and those parts of the government dealing with this program.

>>64473052
Workshare disagreements started first and France's reasoning behind the workshare difference is solely based on IP contributions and proven manufacturing capability. Not funding issues.

>>64468014
Dassault will build their own plane on their own which is what they're best at.
FCAS was a dumpster fire from the start, Germans can't build shit that isn't a Volkswagen.

>>64473217
> Dassault will build their own plane on their own which is what they're best at.
That is quite literally what everyone wants, for Dassault to fuck off and everyone else working together

>>64473355
The problem is airbus + safran likely can't do their own thing at 5.5/6th gen level.

They could join sweden, but then they'd be signing up for basically just a stealth gripen, it'll never be a true 6th gen since sweden refuses to develop a large twin engine fighter airframe; they see single engine fighters with lower maintenance requirements as a strategic necessity. It's why sweden left the Tempest/GCAP program, they were an observing member but when it became clear GCAP was going to be a large twin engine fighter sweden left.

France is the only option unless they want to go talk to South Korea on developing the KF-21 into a 5/6th gen program, but I doubt that would happen in the timeframe germany/spain want.

>>64473217
>>64473456
Dassault can't into 5th gen and you expect them to deliver in a 6th gen?

>>64474446
Dassault has a better chance of it than Airbus/Safran.

>>64473456
>>64474671
Isn't Safran only being used to make the frogs happy? If the frogs fuck off, why wouldn't they use a PW or RR engine?

>>64462898
This retard posts every day. Bot.

>>64464509
What the hell is going on at Boeing?

>>64474671
Rafale with a bodykit wont be that competitive on the market against chink temu stealth jet.
Muh sale number is the only viable french cope at this point.

>>64465741
>Airbus is French
Don't a bunch of EU have a stake in airbus? Pretty sure Germany and France have about equal ownership of Airbus.

>>64474671
Not really, Dassault has zero experience with 5th gens, while Airbus/Safran both manufactured parts for the F-35.
Dassault barely managed to shit out the rafail, which we all saw how shit it ended up being. Airbus was a key player in the Eurofighter.

Apparently frog airforce chief has clarified that they dont have any conflicting/excessive requirements to any of that from german or spanish side.
https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-services/air-defense/scaf-les-armees-de-lair-reaffirment-leur-besoin-dun-systeme-de-combat-aerien-du-futur-2191945
So likely the whole fiasco was all Dassault and possibly French navy works.
Kinda awkward to keep lecturing about "strategic autonomy" when they just ordered EMALS from the US

>>64479490
if France wants this project to succeed, they need to put Dassault in its place and tell them to adhere to the agreed workshare. If they back Dassault, they are to blame if the project fails.

>>64461730 (OP)
>Is FCAS doomed?
The French also fucked off from the Eurofighter consortium to make the Rafale so it's possible that something still gets made given that the Typhoon very much exists, though that'll be up to Germany, Spain and whoever else they can rope in.

>>64479712
the difference is that when france fucked off, nobody cared because the brunt of the development in the EF project was made by the UK, Italy and Germany, with Spain being there just as a pet. A 6th gen is much more complicated and the "teams" are also smaller. The UK and Italy are already together in the GCAP, and even if Germany and Spain were to successfully rope in Sweden, they would have a limited budget and different needs.

>>64461730 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAIWBTZn0jI

>>64480023
Why don't you spam at /v/ and /a/?

It's funny how SCAF was announced because of Brexit, to lock Britain out of European cooperation for a 6th generation fighter, so they'd be forced to fail alone. Now it looks like a certainty that SCAF will fail.

>>64480353
huh? Are you having a stroke?

>>64479490
France always buys American when push comes to shove
See the E-2D purchase.

They couldn't justify developing their own carrier based AWACS, so they bought off the shelf American.

>>64480556
Japan would only allow them a minor role.

No one wants to renegotiate workshare.

>>64461730 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAIWBTZn0jI

>>64480642
fuck off, your game is shit and your music is earrape

>>64480623
Honestly if Germany was willing to pomy up enough money, they'd probably be fine with it. The issue is whether Germany is willing to pay or not.

>>64480778
>>64480623
if you read the article it says the UK is willing to allow Germany to produce the GCAP, not develop it. Same deal as when Italy proposed Saudi Arabia to join.

>>64480778
For workshare?

Not happening.

Even if they threw $100B at them Japan would never allow it.

They have a HARD 2035 deadline for this program and any renegotiation of workshare would inherently cause that date to slip further. Japan is already unhappy with how long the workshare negotiation process is taking.

Japan will only allow germany to join as a customer and or minor manufacturing partner (not as a developer/equal partner).

And frankly, Saudi Arabia represents a more attractive customer; they're not pushing for as much in terms of manufacturing handouts, unlike germany.

>>64480802
>Japan is already unhappy with how long the workshare negotiation process is taking.
source?

>>64480806
Nothing that has been explicitly stated, but the writing is on the wall.

Japan (a few years ago) even indicated they would continue GCAP with or without Italy/UK to try and hit their 2035 deadline. Obviously, they'd rather work with UK/Italy, but they're by far the most incentivized among the group to get things settled with workshare so they can really dig in on the development process.

>>64480802
>Giving saudi's anything before the oil empire collapses
Why

>>64480837
They have tons of money and will place a massive order of planes at export pricing.

>>64462613
Without his ego the fr*nchoid only has Algerian Paris.

>>64480829
>Nothing that has been explicitly stated, but the writing is on the wall.

in the trash you go

>>64480623
>>64480802
>>64480829
>muh Jeetpan
Poopy, Japan has only a minor role in the development of the GCAP and brings barely anything to the table. It’s the UK doing the heavy lifting and decision making.

why cant the dual leaders of the EU get along and make a jet plane folx?

>>64482249
It is still running on the Japanese timeline.

The 2035 IOC date lines up with the F-2's planned retirement date.

>>64482311
Sure poopy. Just like the X-2 will fly in 2 more weeks and replace the F-2.

>>64482588
Es-tu française?

>>64482588
England could easily go another 15-20 years with F-35 + Eurofighter Tranche 4/5 if they needed to, same with Italy.

But japan is really pushing for 2035 and both Italy and the UK are obliging because it means they can (mostly) ignore Tranche 4/5 eurofighters, assuming GCAP hits service entry in 2035.

>>64461730 (OP)
>dassault faggots when they are obstructed from being able to steal a fully designed fighter plane and fence it as their own

>>64462186
this is some thinly veiled Paki supremacist posting

>>64482588
Hon hon hon the projection is rather quite impressionnante. Don't you mean your own turdies that you are importing?

>>64462898
why woud NATO be concerned with the defeat of Rafales? It is built by nigger for niggers, look at the users france egypt greece india all shitskin countries. Althoough I do see the point that the said countries will have to be bailed out by whites when they get themselves into shit they can't get out of, that may cause some concern for operational planning

>>64465853
Why that picrel illustrates the german-french friendship all too well, featuring some average geman woman and the whitest frenchman they could find (you can tellll he's french by his painted fingernails)

>>64466565
>frog zigger
Kek, what a pathetic existence

>>64480802
Germans have a bad habit of meddling in exports too

>>64482619
>saan, UK needs us saan. IHI supeliol to lorrs loyce
Also Japan doesn’t operate the F-35 or the F-2 (which according to weebs is the best 4th gen plane and has plenty of upgrade path.

>>64461730 (OP)
lmao, so what will they do join the other countries and buy the F35?

>>64482633
You aren't a jeet by any chance, are you ?
And no, shitting on frogniggers thirdie-tier tech isn't simping for towelhead jeets.

>>64483575
Germany is already buying F-35's.

I love how frogniggers and anti-german 50 IQ online dimwits are seething and trying to play the marxist playbook, meanwhile we at rheinmetall are nearly ready to present our own 6th gen fighter. Get your popcorn ready gents

>>64472653
Even more so than you think.
>In summary, writing an essay without assistance (Brain-only group) led to stronger neural connectivity across all frequency bands measured, with particularly large increases in the theta and high-alpha bands. This indicates that participants in the Brain-only group had to heavily engage their own cognitive resources: frontal executive regions orchestrated more widespread communication with other cortical areas (especially in the theta band) to meet the high working memory and planning demands of formulating their essays from scratch. [...]
>Tools-free writing activated a broad spectrum of brain networks, from slow to fast rhythms, indicating a holistic cognitive workload: memory search, idea generation, language formulation, and continuous self-monitoring were all in play and coordinated by frontal executive regions.

>While the LLM group certainly engaged brain networks to write, the presence of a LLM appears to have attenuated the intensity and scope of neural communication. The significantly lower frontal theta connectivity in the LLM group possibly indicates that their working memory and executive demands were lighter, presumably because the bot provided external cognitive support (e.g. suggesting text, providing information, structure). Essentially, some of the “human thinking” and planning was offloaded, and the brain did not need to synchronize as extensively at theta frequencies to maintain the writing plan. LLM group's reduced beta connectivity possibly indicated a somewhat lesser degree of sustained concentration and arousal, aligning with a potentially lower effort during writing.
>t. MIT
https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.08872

>>64483521
>Also Japan doesn’t operate the F-35 or the F-2
Are you retarded or just (you) hunting?

So the GCAP engine testbed was announced recently, the XFP30, I wonder if/when we'll see published thrust figures.

>>64484227
>Recently
I guess you missed the other gcap threads

>>64484238
It's recent enough to be worth discussing again.

It's news from the last month.

Not like GCAP has had much other news lately and everything from FCAS is political bickering over the last year+.

>>64484248
Yeah fair enough

>>64480353
Ukraine saved the Brits. The EU was busy freezing out the Anglos on everything, basically deliberately wrecking their economy. The Ukraine happened and Anglo weapons were needed and they have a big army (by European stamdards) so relations warmed up.

If not for the Ukraine war, the Brits would be pariahs in Europe.

>>64484272
>>64480353
that's some bong delusion right there.
if there was some EU wide plan to fuck with the bongs the Italians wouldn't be apart of GCAP but would have joined FCAS as well.
as for the EU trying to sink the UK. the UK believed it could get rid of the parts of EU membership it doesn't like but keep the bits it did. the EU simply told them no and that if they want acces to the single market they'd have to get an association treaty like the other Europen non-EU states like Norway or Switzerland.
if that feels like the EU trying to pull the UK down, that just means that the EU was propping the UK up

>>64482588
>>64483521
>>64482249
Hello again VANK/gookshill. In every single thread about FCAS/GCAP you immediately try and larp as an european trying to downplay anything related to Japan. How does it feel to live in a country (worst korea) that is so inferior in every single metric, especially military prowess to Japan?

>>64462002
golem is angry not everyone does a 20minutes ovation to Israel?

>>64484309
Nigga you’re old + at least Korea has an aircraft industry to begin with. Meanwhile the peak of jap aircraft is an enlarged F-16 with worse performance.

>>64484694
You're incredibly transparent.

>>64484697
Well prove me wrong. Even the fucking germs are rebuilding some parts of their aircraft industry (thanks to American investors) now despite being boomer cucks with a hard declining industry.

>>64484710
>Well prove me wrong
Well, want to compare the joke that the KF-21 is vs the X-2 prototype?
I can even give you pity points and not mention the fact worst korea can't into engines, hasn't developed a single RAM or that they never contributed anything within material science etc, unlike Japan who developed such better wings for the F-2 that they were forced by the US to transfer that technology which was then used in the F-22 (like the RAM they developed).
Can I mention the fact that the X-2 prototype had from the start a better engine than anything Korea currently has and 3D thrust vectoring? Or the the X-2 was the first fighter jet to use FBO technology? Or the fact that Japan was the first country in the world to mount an AESA radar on a fighter jet while worst korea still can't even integrate an off the shelf one on their T-50 and has to beg Raytheon to do it?
South Korea, is just a fake country propped up by corruption and smoke mirrors, this is especially clear when you look at how their defence industries operate.
The KF-21 is the perfect cultimation of those smoke mirrors, a prototype that larps as 5th gen when it can't even do precision A/G missions, is not stealth, has no AWACS-like radar like the AN/APG-81, has no real time encrypted datasharing capabilities, no DAS, no DASS, no integrated EW attack or SD capabilities but SK will still have a meltdown and claim every single one of those features is totally coming within "2 weeks" when you can't even integrate an AIM-9X after more than 2 years since the initial request in the FA-50.
>at least Korea has an aircraft industry to begin with
I already ripped both the T-50/FA-50 and KF-21, of which one is a mini f-16 with shit range, shit avionics and no AESA developed mostly by Lockheed, and the other a literal scam where the other co developer country pulled out. >the peak of jap aircraft is an enlarged F-16 with worse performance.
Find me a single metric where the F-2 is worse than the F-16

>>64484828
>Find me a single metric where the F-2 is worse than the F-16
Ah well you see, the F-2 has a two-piece canopy, where the F-16 has a single-piece uniform glass canopy.

>>64485294
It's joever

>>64484828
I can't wait for the GCAP to fly

>>64485499
First demonstrator is set to fly by 2028, but IOC of a production model is going to be around 2035.

>>64485588
The first demonstrator will be powered by EJ200, there will be at least one (but likely 2-6) prototype airframes built with the new engines.

>>64485653
Iirc they plan to use a modified EJ200, not a stock one.

>>64485699
Nah, they're using a new intake/duct design, but the EJ200's are being taken from the recently retired Typhoon fleet

>>64485729
>Donated engines
I do like the prudent budget considerations. If it works, no need to spend more than needed on new engines.

>>64485802
The first demonstrator really is just to prove/test the airframe and cockpit layout shit anyway, the prototypes with the new engines in the early 2030s are going to be more representative of the final GCAP fighter.

>>64465741
Brazilian here

The KC-390 is a tactical cargo aircraft so both aircraft serve different roles, baguette munching faggot.

Macron is cool though

>>64485978
I can't wait to see how the demonstrator looks like and how they will refine it as they go because as it stands the full size mock up shown at DSEI25 is painfully generic.

>>64465767
The eurofighter was nearly scuttled because of the peace dividend and it suffered for years because of it.

Eurofighter also has more thrust, better WVR performance and armament when you ignore the meteor, that both have.

>AIM-120C > MICA RF
>IRIS-T & ASRAAM > MAGIC II & MICA

the one area where the Rafale has a clear advantage is in the air to ground role, mainly because everyone cheaped out on the Typhoons air to ground capability, if you only count bombs and ignore that France doesn't have any modern ATGM for their fighters

Also, the Typhoon can carry 6 ASMs according to wikipedia? The fuck

>>64486426
>germany is the only country that can use JDAMs
wild stuff

>>64486446
The eurofighter has a really weird weapons load, Italy has the Tornado and AMX A-1 for ground attack so they don't need to integrate A2G on the Typhoon, UK and Germany worked on the same rationale but just the Tornado, i believe.

You only see them integrating stuff into the Typhoon now that the tornado's are being or have been retired, because up until recently Typhoon was basically a raw breed Air superiority fighter.

>>64486526
I wonder if GCAP will see similar, Japan getting their own loadout, Italy getting their own, then UK having their own too.

It must be so depressing to have to join your tiny economies together, cross language barriers and deal with all the bullshit of sharing expertise and manufacturing, just to design a middling aircraft that you'll only build a couple hundred of
Truly the European existence must be awful

>>64461730 (OP)
phuking frogs

>>64486730
Unironically this. Jesus christ these threads are so cringe. Little fish gossiping about which third rate jet will lag behind the US.

>>64487193
The goal for FCAS/GCAP isn't NGAD parity, it's just to be 90-95% as good as NGAD at 50-60% of the cost.

>>64484828
Notice how all of this seethe comes down to an one off prototype lol? Meanwhile Korea actually serial builds stuff instead of making vague claims about having le best engines etc when said engines are worse than the Americans engines Korea uses for now. Why bother developing shit when the US does it for you and you reap all the benefits including the R&D. We already know Korea works on domestic radars, engines etc. Like Japan had technically the first AESA on a plane but it was barely even better than old ass PESA shit. Compare a F-16 BLOCK 72 to a F-2 and you will see why it’s better.

End of the day there is a reason why nobody even knows Toshiba, Panasonic or any of those companies while everybody knows Samsung and LG. Just roll over already, unc.

>>64486526
>Italy has the Tornado and AMX A-1
We retired the AMX last year. The tornado is now operational only with the 155th Black Panthers and technically a small part of the 154th Red Devils in the 6th wing, even if they have been basically put under the 155th and the Tornado itself is going to be operational for at most another 2 years.
For our A/G needs we're going to rely mostly on the F-35, with some corridor rumors saying the AM would like to purchase a bunch of M-346FA as an AMX/drone killer replacement, but it's unconfirmed.
We've also had some A/G stuff integrated on the Eurofighter recently like the Paveway IV.

>>64487819
>Meanwhile Korea actually serial builds stuff instead of making vague claims
That's literally the KF-21 project in a nutshell, you literally haven't even started LRIP, but only have prototypes. KAI keeps claiming that future iteration of the KF-21 will have this and that without even having an history of being able to deliver of less complex stuff (even with the help of the US).
From the start the X-2 prototype was meant to be a study testbed for a future program that afterward merged into GCAP, but don't be mistaken, the X-2 prototype is more advanced that anything the koreans have shown and promised with the KF-21, it's not even a contest. While little korea likes to larp with a 4th gen, Japan is looking at a true 6th gen. This makes koreans seethe as for some retarded reason they have unwarranted animosity against Japan.
>Compare a F-16 BLOCK 72 to a F-2 and you will see why it’s better.
Now compare the date of rollout of a F-2 and a block 72 F-16.
>End of the day there is a reason why nobody even knows Toshiba, Panasonic or any of those companies while everybody knows Samsung and LG. Just roll over already, unc.
Are you for real?

>>64487828
Watch out, gookshill is going to spam you with incoherent twitter screenshots and powerpoints about SK becoming a superpower by 2030

>>64487819
>Samsung
Utterly shit. I had bought one of their 70in TVs and it was slow as fuck, would reboot for no reasons and it would NEVER remember my color calibration profiles. Smart tvs in general are cancer, but Samsung ones are the worst.

>>64484828
>unlike Japan who developed such better wings for the F-2 that they were forced by the US to transfer that technology which was then used in the F-22 (like the RAM they developed).
Least delusional weeb. The F-22 is older than the F-2

>>64487828
>>64487833
>>64484828
FYI, this is our mentally ill gookshill
nitter.net/FacelessManTwit/status/1952354174253113550
nitter.net/FacelessManTwit/status/1952395385701277909
nitter.net/FacelessManTwit/status/1952432437352341891
nitter.net/FacelessManTwit/status/1952537655222337623
nitter.net/FacelessManTwit/status/1952539869919732132
nitter.net/FacelessManTwit/status/1952545095061828048
Nearly all of his tweets is devoted to seething about Japan, kek

Truly astonishing that none has ever called out gooks on their slimy, scummy business practice.
VANK bugs are also running a campaign to discredit german subs on their bid for canuck navy.
As if gook subs aren't a temu copy with hand-me-down instructions from TKMS

>>64480806
I've heard similar things and that GCAP is a mess, better than FCAS but it isn't going amazingly.

>>64487898
>I've heard similar things and that GCAP is a mess
source?

>>64487868
holy shit lmao

>>64487901
it's the gookshill

>>64465816
>as you feared
You're a retarded faggot that doesn't realize how suggestive AI is and you were clearly suggestive towards it.

Try enough and you'll get it to tell you sticking a banana in your ass will make you taller.

>>64484304
>The move also reflects efforts to give fresh impetus to Franco-German relations in the aftermath of Britain's decision to leave the European Union and was described by defence experts as a snub to Europe's leading military power
https://www.reuters.com/article/world/france-and-germany-to-develop-new-european-fighter-jet-idUSKBN19Y1FN/

>>64487901
>Source
People I know.

>>64487909
I'm not, FCAS looks to be in a fucking state and the KF-21 is a 4.5 gen Gripen type plane. GCAP is certainly more promising than both, but that doesn't stop it from having it's own issues.

>>64487935
>a senior German defense industry official
ah yes the good ol' anonymous source
in other news a pound of feathers is lighter than a pound of steel, a senior weighing industry official told Reuters

>>64487960
so you made it up

>>64487974
Are you stupid? What sense was there to create a Franco-German fighter and not include Britain? For all the reasons that have led to this state right now. It was a political decision not to include Britain as they had voted to leave the EU.

>>64487965
>KF-21 is a 4.5gen
yep, it's the gookshill
>but that doesn't stop it from having it's own issues.
like what? got any sources?

>>64488005
You're retarded, France literally asked the UK, Germany and Italy (and others) to join FCAS when it was still in the preliminary ETAP study, Italy and the UK were at first considering it but ultimately said no and went to do their thing with Japan, while Germany and Spain accepted.
>What sense was there to create a Franco-German fighter and not include Britain?
Any project with both France and Germany is going to fail. How GCAP is going vs FCAS is literally just another evidence of this.
Feel free to find any evidence/source of the UK "not being allowed" to join FCAS. Or is this another case of "a friend told me"?

>>64488005
you are confusing things here mate. the EU didn't chose to exclude the UK, the UK chose to leave the EU and thus all EU programs such as the Horizon Europe research program.
the UK wanted to chose what programs and EU membership benefits it wanted to keep. the EU told them that they chose to leave and that as such the left all of it and would have to reapply as a third party participant

FCAS isn't an EU program and the UK was asked to join. the UK chose not to and then started GCAP. if the goal of FCAS was to exclude the UK from European joint programs then why did Italy join GCAP and not FCAP.

>>64488002
No, I just know a few people. I mean they could be wrong, but it's what I heard.
>>64488006
>like what? got any sources
Literally just trust me bro, from people I personally know.

>>64462045
It was a retarded idea to begin with, this was the most predictable outcome ever trying to get krauts and frogs to build something together

>>64488115
You're simplifying the timeline of events and glossing over some details.

ETAP was a thing, but it wasn't a formal transition from ETAP to FCAS. In fact the UK/France had been working on a DIFFERENT FCAS program for UCAVs from about 2010-2017 which sort of just fell apart. France announced their 6th gen FCAS program in mid/late 2017 with Germany. Then by mid 2018 they formally announced it would be a joint Dassault/Airbus venture. At roughly the same time in 2018 the UK announced their FCAS program (which was Tempest and would become GCAP later). In early 2019 Spain would join the Franco-German FCAS program as a core partner. Then 4-6 months later in mid 2019 Italy announced they would be joining Tempest (FCAS) with the UK. Around this time there was also a public policy paper from an Italian think tank that argued Italy would see more of a leading role in GCAP (UK/Italy) over FCAS (France/Germany/Spain).

And it's not like England woke up one day in 2018 and decided to make a new jet, the preliminary work for Tempest likely began around the same time preliminary work for FCAS was going on in France.

It's just two parallel programs that attracted different partner nations for different reasons. Acting like Italy/UK were invited to join FCAS and declined is likely not accurate. They were free to ask France about joining FCAS, but there was no public invitation from France to either the UK or Italy to join their project and pretending like the UK/Italy doing Tempest together is some DIRECT snub/response to the Franco-German FCAS program is just retarded.

At no point was the UK seriously considering joining FCAS, they already had their own domestic effort in progress by the time the French program was far enough along to attract partners.

>>64488178
>the UK was asked to join. the UK chose not to and then started GCAP
That's not what happened

>if the goal of FCAS was to exclude the UK from European joint programs then why did Italy join GCAP and not FCAS
Because Italy would be a minor partner in FCAS, but a major partner in GCAP. Italy might be in the EU, but ultimately they still prioritize what's going to give the most return to Italy itself, and between FCAS or GCAP it's obvious which was better for Italy.

>>64461730 (OP)
Dassault has been developing the rafale replacement for years. They never expected FCAS to work, they only joined because the french government to'd them to.

>>64463170
>Dassault survives on gibs from the French state
The whole arms industry lives on subsidies everywhere since forever. Are you fucking newf

>>64488191
>At no point was the UK seriously considering joining FCAS
The consideration was about a possible common UCAV, or at least make both GCAP and FCAS drones being able to communicate with each others.

>>64488188
>No, I just know a few people. I mean they could be wrong, but it's what I heard.
So you made it up, like I said. Thanks for clarifying.

>>64488214
>Because Italy would be a minor partner in FCAS, but a major partner in GCAP
That's retarded. In terms of the technologies that make up a 5th gen or a 6th gen Italy has much more experience than both France and Germany. If they aim was to only be a big fish then they would've joined FCAS instead of GCAP where the other 2 partners are literally the only other 2 countries outside of the US with 5th gen development experience.
Italy was already a part of the Tempest program before it became GCAP with Leonardo UK, and they decided to join GCAP for the simple reason that those 3 countries together are the ones with the better chances to actually deliver a 6th gen fighter in a reasonable timeline outside the US.

The only thing that France could've used to lure italy was the carrier version of FCAS since now Italy has allocated funds for the study of their next aircraft carrier, which is going to be nuclear and with CATOBAR, but the current rumor is that Italy is not looking to put GCAP on that and would rather buy F-35Cs since they already have a FACO.

>>64488214
>Because Italy would be a minor partner in FCAS, but a major partner in GCAP
That's retarded. In terms of the technologies that make up a 5th gen or a 6th gen Italy has much more experience than both France and Germany. If their aim was to only be a big fish within the program then they would've joined FCAS instead of GCAP where the other 2 partners are literally the only other 2 countries outside of the US with 5th gen development experience and a much bigger aeronautical industry.
Italy was already a part of the Tempest program before it became GCAP with Leonardo UK, and they decided to join GCAP for the simple reason that those 3 countries together are the ones with the better chances to actually deliver a 6th gen fighter in a reasonable timeline outside the US.

The only thing that France could've used to lure italy was the carrier version of FCAS since now Italy has allocated funds for the study of their next aircraft carrier, which is going to be nuclear and with CATOBAR, but the current rumor is that Italy is not looking to put GCAP on that and would rather buy F-35Cs since they already have a FACO.

>>64488483
>Italy was already a part of the Tempest program before it became GCAP with Leonardo UK

Again, I think you're just confused about timelines here.

Italy joined Tempest AFTER Germany/France/Spain were all in FCAS together.

At that stage, when Germany/France/Spain had ALREADY publicly announced a joint trilateral program (with at the time, a 33/33/33 workshare agreement), why the fuck would italy want to try and get involved in that program?

Even if they DID have the technical edge over Spain/Germany/France for 5th gen+ fighters, France/Germany/Spain weren't going to give Italy favorable workshare, hell just looking at the current FCAS landscape and you can easily see France never would've given Italy a 33% split (like they're getting in GCAP) if France isn't even willing to give Germany more than 15-20% of the workshare in the current France/Germany/Spain split.

There is zero indication that Italy would've gotten similar or more favorable conditions in FCAS, and if anything the current FCAS workshare landscape highlights the problems italy would've been facing had they decided to try and join FCAS instead.

>>64488544
>Italy joined Tempest AFTER Germany/France/Spain were all in FCAS together
Officially yes, but Leonardo UK was already in Tempest from the beginning. It would've been impossible for Italy to join FCAS and be allowed even if with just a company in Tempest/FCAS. This was in 2015. FCAS saw Germany and Spain join in 2017.
>There is zero indication that Italy would've gotten similar or more favorable conditions in FCAS, and if anything the current FCAS workshare landscape highlights the problems italy would've been facing had they decided to try and join FCAS instead.
That is true, but it doesn't make my statement about wanting to be in a project with the UK and JP due to their experience false. It's just another incentive that saw Italy steer towards GCAP.

>>64488566
I agree with your point that the UK and Japan's experience was an incentive for Italy, but that was a secondary driver compared to the primary financial and strategic objective.

In defense programs worth over €50 billion, no country prioritizes 'experience' over industrial sovereignty.

Italy had a choice between:
>FCAS
Where it would be forced into a junior partner role behind France, fighting for scraps of workshare, just as Germany and Spain are doing now with Dassault demanding up to an 80% work share on FCAS

>GCAP
Where it is a founding, equal partner guaranteed a 33.3% workshare split.

GCAP comes with an almost guaranteed massive industrial return, rather than being relegated to a subordinate role in a politically troubled program (FCAS), and is the obvious strategic and economic choice for Italy. The quality of the partners (UK/Japan) simply makes the industrial prize (GCAP) even better.

>>64488544
>Even if they DID have the technical edge over Spain/Germany/France for 5th gen+ fighters
nta, in terms of sensors and other technical gizmos Italy does have the edge over any FCAS country with Italy being one of the bigger players in the new joint venture for the GCAP ISANKE... Even in other sectors they have their rough diamons like Avio Areo who makes parts of the F-35 engine etc so they can actually help Rolls Royce IHI in this project instead of being a burden. Material science is mostly led by Japan from what I know, especially in RAM and newer composites.
I've got no idea if Italy and the UK even did any research on that.

>>64488607
>GCAP comes with an almost guaranteed massive industrial return
do we know how many units the UK and Italy are looking to produce for themselves?

>>64488619
No firm orders or anything, but the current discussions have assumed ~350 fighters based on a Leonardo document from a year or so ago.

The current speculation is ~80-120 for Italy, ~100-140 for the UK, and ~150 for Japan.

And they're likely trying to rope in Saudi Arabia for another 50-150 airframes, and Australia as well to replace their F/A-18's so another 24-36 there.

So assuming no other big customers (like germany breaking off from FCAS), total production at the moment for GCAP is looking to be around 350-500 airframes.

>>64488631
exports are going to be even more cucked due to the sensitive technology. Saudis are rich, but other than them I don't see many potential customers outside of those you already mentioned

>>64488646
I think there are more customers for GCAP than there are for FCAS.

And FCAS will likely need more export customers to be an economic success to pay for the massive R&D.

>>64488707
>more AI delusions

>>64488737
>I think there are more customers for GCAP than there are for FCAS.
I don't know, By the way it's looking FCAS is either not going to exist or be extremely inferior to GCAP. This could be a boon as France would have the same situation they had with the rafale where they sold it to every shithole they could get their hands on like india, egypt etc.
Meanwhile GCAP is going to be harder to sell both due to price and because nations who are rich enough to buy GCAP and can be trusted to not immediately sell it to the chink or russia are few and far between.

>>64488829
That's the one thing germany will bring to FCAS, their veto to exports to shitholes.

UAE is probably one of the few potential customers I can think of that might be allowed to buy FCAS and can afford it.

But they're just as likely to try and go for GCAP too.

>>64488844
They might just go for the chink tailless dorito or the f35 copy if China allows them. They already bought their L-15s recently

>>64488878
>chink tailless dorito
that thing probably costs north of $200m and fills a very specific niche that china cannot fully into so I doubt it. F-35 copy will definitely get exported though.

>>64488902
>F-35 copy will definitely get exported though
The pakis are about to order 48 from what I heard

>For the demonstrator engine, Italy’s Avio Aero is developing the low-pressure turbine, Japan’s IHI Corporation is developing the compressor and Rolls-Royce is leading on the combustor, the high-pressure turbine and exhaust nozzles. The engine’s core design has been informed by Rolls-Royce’s Advance1 military powerplant demonstrator and the Pearl 10X business jet engine, a medium bypass powerplant based on the company’s Advance 2 demonstrator.
The UK is getting the best parts of the workshare on the engine. Italy is getting shafted.

>>64489407
Source:
https://archive.ph/sRZbQ#selection-2075.0-2075.446

>>64489407
Kinda makes sense, out of the 3 nations the UK is the one with most experience with engines. So nobody is really getting shafted.
The UK is the one with the smallest role in the new GCAP Electronics Evolution Joint Venture for the same reason.
>JPN: Mitsubishi Electric
>UK: Leonardo UK
>IT: ELT Group
>these companies will collaborate to provide the next-generation advanced sensing and communications system, known as the Integrated Sensing and Non-Kinetic Effects & Integrated Communications Systems (ISANKE & ICS), as well as the integrated long-term logistics support service (TLSS), which will accompany the system for decades.
>https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/c4isr/dsei-2025-industry-partners-form-gcap-electronics-evolution-consortium
And before some chinkshills/gookshills claim this is not adhering to the 33.3% workshare, this isn't the case as the actual workshare is still properly divided, just in the areas where each nation can actually contribute the most.

>>64489414
those engines look small. I hope GCAP won't be underpowered.

>>64489462
From my understanding they're not aiming for MASSIVE thrust, but likely 150-200% of the EJ200 thrust (so in the ~30,000-40,000lbf thrust range)
And they're likely targeting the EJ200 for size/weight on the new engines too as the first demonstrator will be using EJ200 engines and it's supposed to be testing out the ducts/inlets for the airframe, so presumably the new engines will be similar size to EJ200.

>>64489407
Japan is likely providing some materials science information from their XF-9 prototype as that had ~1800C turbine inlet temps running in 2018 on top of their work on the compressor.

>>64489462
GCAP is more about long-range efficient cruising + power generation for electronic warfare suites, radar, local AI, and sensor fusion shit.

>>64489457
>Kinda makes sense, out of the 3 nations the UK is the one with most experience with engines. So nobody is really getting shafted.
> Italy’s Avio Aero is developing the low-pressure turbine
Italy gets the low pressure turbine, the least advanced part.
>Japan’s IHI Corporation is developing the compressor
Compressor itself isnt bad
>Rolls-Royce is leading on the combustor, the high-pressure turbine and exhaust nozzles
The UK get more than the rest and the best parts.
>The UK is the one with the smallest role in the new GCAP Electronics Evolution Joint Venture for the same reason.
Sorry, can you show me where it claims that, I'm not seeing it?
>>64489500
I thought with these divisions there was little sharing of IP. Really depends on how they are working.

>>64489647
>the least advanced part
Someone still has to make it, or would you have had the italians make the combustor despite having no experience with those for a 6th gen? France would've tried to take everything for themselves, here instead work is still being shared. Italy gets less on the engines, but gets more in the digital compartment.
>Sorry, can you show me where it claims that, I'm not seeing it?
The fact that not a single genuine UK company is partecipating in the sensor/isanke joint venture, you have a japanese company, an italian company and a subsidiary of an italian company.

>>64489701
>Someone still has to make it
My point is that the UK is taking the lion's share and Italy is having the scraps.
>The fact that not a single genuine UK company is partecipating in the sensor/isanke joint venture
Leonardo UK is a UK company owned by an Italian one, like bae(UK) owns bae inc(America) but bae inc is still an American company.

>>64489723
Leonardo UK is an italian company run in the UK, it's not like they just bought an already existing company. Anything they research or make are under the directive, or at the benefit of Leonardo.
Leonardo UK and Bae (US) exist to smooth over dealings about geo returns and sales.
>Hello bongs, buy our helicopters and it will bring X amount of local jobs at our companies in your country.
>italy gets the scraps
Like I already said, the UK has much more experience in engine development than Italy, what were they supposed to do? Give Italy a bigger role and compromise the end result? The best move was what we already saw and give a bigger role in another sector. If this wasn't the case why did they choose Leonardo UK instead of BAE or one of its wholly british subsidiaries for the UK company?

>>64489749
That's not how these military companies work, it doesn't matter who gets the dividends, it's about protected national capabilities.

>>64489790
GCAP clearly showed that cooperation and sharing of technologies/know how is the key to success. Adhere firmly to not sharing anything and wanting all the geo returns for yourself and you end up (or don't) with FCAS

The gcap is a 5.5 gen aircraft at best
Their peasant engine tech means they can’t build an engine worth a damn, so vertical stabs is required for maneuverability

>>64489831
Go to bed gookshill

>>64489831
As opposed to the notoriusly shitty chinese engines?

>>64480556
Germany let the Eurofighter program rot with their absurd export limits, they deserve to sleep with the french

>>64489790
Wrong

>>64489831
The EJ200 edges out against an F-414. European engines are the second best in the world.

>>64490201
https://www.dcsa.mil/Portals/91/Documents/CTP/FOCI/SpecialSecurityAgreement-3-5-09.doc

>>64489500
You seem to be correct, the IHI guy says they are bringing heat-resistant materials from XF9 program as well as compressor technology.
https://youtu.be/wZ9H6Lj-7hM?t=3541