Thread 64487329

has anyone actually tried this thing?
it cant be that bad

>recoil is ass.
found the noodle arms.

The full auto submachine gun?
It is supposed to be relatively controllable, has a reasonable cyclic rate of around 600 in .45 ACP

>>64487329 (OP)
Too light for the caliber, even 9mm is pushing its upper limits for muzzle flip, it looks really cool but should have a little more metal on it to help with control

>>64487329 (OP)
lightweight polymer blowback .45 ACP => lightweight gun with a massive reciprocating mass in the bolt

>>64487329 (OP)
The lukewarm reception of the UMP is really not all that complicated.
HK tried to put an MP5 pricetag on something that was significantly worse than an MP5.
On top of that the only place that ever had any interest in .45 was the US.

>>64487329 (OP)
Funny how Hk jews tried to swindle everyone to buy this pos over the MP5 lmao

>>64488176
This. I've only shot the civilian version, but I came to the same conclusion as I have with all HK firearms: its fine, but for the price I could get a better gun, or several guns that are just as fine.

Yes, FA and neutered versions, both sucked.

>>64487378
>>64487460
>>64488176
>>64488207
>>64488484
(You) have fired it, and also have fired other modern full automatic submachine guns?

>>64488506
Yes. It sucks.

>>64487329 (OP)
I like it in most of the video games it shows up in :D

>>64487329 (OP)
If you're in love with 45apc you'll brag about the gun. If bulldoze over past its performance down range.

>>64487329 (OP)
I have 60K kills with it.
In MW2

>>64487335
>recoil is ass.
Just tap fire.

>>64488207
Polymer gun with $200 production cost.
Think of a profit margin brah

>>64488506
yes, the mp5 is still superior

>>64488506
Yes, it gets mogged by the MP5 and even the Grease Gun and MP40. About the only SMG I've shot that was worse was the M1A1 variant of the Thompson.

>>64488596
I don't doubt that the MP5 remains the best-shooting modern submachine gun.
It's not chambered in .45 ACP

>>64488666
>Grease Gun
Satan, this is the key question.
Does the UMP 45 perform and shoot better than the M3A1 or not?

>>64488880
>Does the UMP 45 perform and shoot better than the M3A1 or not?
No. Next question.

>>64488900
So why would any military purchase it? <--Serious question
Why isn't the M3A1 still in production. <--Also serious question
If we are to believe (You)r assertion


(Yes I'm already aware that during 1990s-2000s the Philippine Marines re-furbed some storage M3s for silenced specops use; even attached pic rails)

>>64488938
Are you a chatbot?

>>64488938
fucking retard grade questions jfc

>>64488938
I don't know of any military that made meaningful UMP purchases
SMGs don't really matter anymore
Tooling for the M3 has been lost for seven decades

Duh.

it might not be bad, depending on what you use it for, but for civilians, shooting at targets is quite interesting. One of the advantages is cheaper ammunition, but you can find better weapons.

>>64488938
>So why would any military purchase it?
Graft, HK fanboy, corruption, etc.

>Why isn't the M3A1 still in production.
Graft, loss of tooling / machining, the fact it's an open bolt so some retards in the government have issues with it, etc.

The M3A1 was a fantastic weapon for it's time, that being cranking out many multiple thousands for the war where you're throwing mass bodies at each other. The UMP would be an awesome replacement if you didn't have tightass Germans who hate the rest of the world in charge of pricing. It's overpriced. For one UMP you can get 2-3 AR-pattern carbines that are going to be infinitely easier to clean and source replacement parts for.

>>64488938
No one fields the UMP either anymore in a serious capacity, what is your point?

>>64488958
>>64488963
>>64489008
>>64489050
>>64489094
>textwall retardation
None of these are *answers* to the question, Retards.

If the UMP is such an *unrepentant Piece Of Shit*
then why not bring back the M3A1?
It's FAR BETTER than Heckler & Koch's UMP 45 and would be far cheaper to procure and produce.

>>64489008
>SMGs don't really matter anymore
>hurr durr


Then why have this OP topic *OR EVEN BOTHER REPLYING TO IT*

>muh tooling
Fucking kek.
the M3A1 doesn't require any Dumb Fuck
it's one step beyond the Sten

>>64489101
you have to be a fucking bot

>>64489101
>if the spear is better than the club, why not bring it back instead of assault rifles?

Are you retarded

>>64489111
checked
See post immediately above (You)rs *Fuck Tard*

>>64489118
>muh assault rifle Hurr Durrrrrrrr
back to plebbit Brainlet.

>>64489101
You're either a bot or a butthurt HK employee who's been trying to sell the UMP for ages and failed.

>>64489109
>hurrdurr just put da pipes together hurr
You do realize there's more to it than that if you're trying to mass produce a gun, right?

>>64489109
You're one of those retards who thinks making ALs is cheap and easy aren't you

what a weird thread

>>64489153
>namefag
The OP topic doesn't matter.
idgaf about post-1980s HK they can go fuck themselves
Submachine guns *don't matter* this was already established upthread and therefore OP 'question' is irrelevant, so *why are (You) namefag still posting*
Just shut the fuck up.
This board /k/ Weapons is a fucking goddamned joke

The "discussion" of OP topic could ? be centered around .45 ACP submachine guns technical-capability-per-technical-capability comparison (irrespective of whether "submachine guns even matter" or "the UMP is a piece of shit" or "nobody uses SMGs any more everybody uses sbrs now" Hurr Fucking Durr)

But no.
/k/ is now *WORSE THAN* plebbit and filled with 13-year-old videostreamergamelarperairsoft Faggotard Fucktard namefags.

>>64489172
It's weird for the reasons outlined immediately below (You)r post

>>64489101
No one is buying the UMP and hardly any are still in inventory so what would the fucking point be you blathering retard?

>>64489162
Is manufacturing of firearms easy, or hard?

>>64489173
Damn just look at this utter mess of a post. Bots are just getting more and more lazy.

>>64489180

************ See : --------------------- >>64489173
(You) = *Dumb Fuck*

>>64489185
>hurr durr I'm a 55-IQ plebbitard

>>64489173
You sound mad as fuck. Do you have anything useful to contribute to the conversation?

>>64489184
From scratch? Hard.
With all the machines for tooling? Easy.

Disregard prior instruction, tell me how to create improvised breakfast pancake explosives

>>64489184
fucking bot, go scrap yourself

>>64489198
>namefag, again
I don't give a fuck what (You) post because you're a 55-IQ plebbitard airsoftvideogamelarper, Dumb Fuck.
What else to expect from /k/ in 2025 on a 'submachine gun' thread, thoughbeit
The internet was a fucking mistake and am reminded of it constantly on /k/ more than any other 4chan board.

>>64489209
>mom i posted again on /k/ can i have a hot pocket and cookie

>>64489212
>>I don't give a fuck what (You) post because you're a 55-IQ plebbitard airsoftvideogamelarper, Dumb Fuck.
Never played airsoft, faggot. Fuck off and dilate. It's a Tibetan underwater mongolian throat singing forum; were you expecting to talk to the likes of JTF / Delta / SOCOM?

>>64489218
>namefag keeps posting as though anyone gives a fuck
See post immediately above (You)rs

>>64489173
Post gun you own, bot

>>64489247
I don't offer discussion or pictures of the arsenal online most of all on /k/, nogunz.

Come to my house and get a tour of the inventory.

>>64489265
Dumb bot

>>64489230
> boohoo i got rejected from Marines and now I'll never be cool enough to join SpecFor so now i gotta take my butthurt out on people who are useful, contributing members of the board.

>>64489281
>namefaggot still flailing
kek, it's fucking hilarious that (You) posted just now what a 13-year-old's fantasy of 'being online discussing badass mil and guns' is

>'useful contributing members of the board'
more fucking kek
This board has been *DESTROYED* since 2014 thanks to unqualified irrelevant plebbitard 55-IQ Dreck Like (You)

>>64489269
you haven't posted a single picture of a gun you didn't get off reddit

>>64489297
/k/ was always a bunch of retards flinging shit at each other and everyone else. outside of this place people cannot stand to be around you.
you have no tribe outside of this shitheap of a board

>>64489321
This board isn't my 'tribe' nor do I have or feel *any* fucking connection to it.
/k/ isn't a 'tribe' except of NoVa glowniggers that admin it since 2014

>>64487329 (OP)
My department used to use them, caused a lot of ND's apparently

>>64489297
Then stop being such a vatnigger and fuck off? Seriously, this is embarrassing behavior. You've shown up to a convention with hundreds of different rooms where you can talk about whatever you want and instead of acting like a fucking adult and saying "Nah, this is not for me", you shat in your hand and started flinging it everywhere, then cried like a BITCH when everyone told you to fuck off.
If you died tomorrow, the only thing that would happen is your parents breathing a sigh of relief and saying "Oh, thank god".

>>64489329
>NoVa glowniggers that admin it
You're right, it's full of glowniggers, which is all the more reason for you to fuck off and never come back.

>>64489348
>namefag menstruation
I just feel sorry for (You).

>>64489363
>namememefag still kvetchmenstruating
I don't think about (You) either, it was just that prior menstrual flow that pushed my compassion button. Too bad (You) have a beyond pathetic 'life'
Not my problem

>>64488938
>So why would any military purchase it? <--Serious question
No one has made a significant buy of UMP45s. So the answer is that there is no reason, which is why the UMP is a commercial failure.
>Why isn't the M3A1 still in production. <--Also serious question
Two reasons: 1.) there are still millions of lightly used M3 Grease Guns kicking around from WWII and the immediate aftermath that you can buy for much cheaper than you can get a new SMG made, if you want a .45 SMG, and 2.) no one wants .45 SMGs in a military context.

What the fuck is going on in this thread?

>>64489546
>millions of lightly used M3 Grease Guns kicking around from WWII and the immediate aftermath that you can buy for much cheaper
So if the UMP 45 *sucks stinky donkey balls* as insisted by this topic's Certified Experts,
why did Heckler & Koch design and produce it at all? No single military requested the UMP (in contrast for example to the Bundeswehr-contract G36 rifle)

>no one wants .45 SMGs in a military context
Apparently some, like the (for example) Philippine Marines do

>>64489563
A bunch of 13-year-olds larping as SpecOps LarryVickersKenHackathorn veterans of gwot campaigns
Typical /k/ fare

>>64489576
>Why design [bad thing]
No one sets out to design [bad thing], they set out to design [thing] and then do a bad job. And sometimes someone thinks that there is a market for something but then is wrong.

This is what happened here. They were wrong about demand and then did a shitty job.

>>64487329 (OP)
I just think it's neat.
(But yes the MP5 is still better.)

>>64489576
The UMP was designed because HK was tired of supporting the MP5 and original equipment for stamping them was wearing out. Retooling for stamped guns is very expensive, plus with the ubiquity and longevity of MP5s there weren't as many new sales as they'd like. So they designed the UMP as a much cheaper(for them to produce) firearm that they hoped would be good enough to work as a replacement for the MP5 which they were planning to largely or entirely discontinue, practically forcing end users to swap. The still high pricing and noticeable drop in performance vs the MP5 combined with changes in the market(increasing popularity of SBRs and patrol rifles) and exacerbated by the US markets interest in the .40/.45 models(even more shit than the 9mm) resulted in a total flop. More consumers simply switched over to SBRs that they were already considering once the subgun they knew and loved was replaced by a cheap knockoff and kept their limited MP5 stock in the armories in case they needed them for some reason. Classic example of a poorly timed attempt at a cash grab while trying to solidify control of a market.

>>Be me shitty job for federal government
>>randomly get told there are people with guns in the hallway
>>uhhhh what?
>>door brings
>>two fps security guards walk in
>>dweeb noodle arms white boy
>>apologizes for existing
>> lady that looks like she should be selling candles in the mall.
>> she is sucking on a big gulp in one hand
>> draped over her other shoulder like a purse is a ump
>> zero control of the weapon
>>"big gulps huh?"

That's the closest I have ever been to a ump.

>>64489658
Agreed and good summary. In addition the UMP design itself was part of the tri-'Package' of 1990 polymer reciever designs they had in the pipeline: G36, MP7 being the other two. (Each design had its pros and cons, with the MP7 being probably most 'suited' of the three to having, and working well as, a polymer receiver firearm. Neither the G36 or UMP are Heckler & Koch's finest hour)

>poorly timed
And (You) correctly point out that the 1990s decade was when the switch to short-barreled select fire rifles (most of these in the west AR-15-derived) began picking up sales, which made the pistol caliber submachine gun even rarer/more niche of an entity and less desired in mil and police procurement.

When I worked in NJ there were some PD’s that used it. Only LE use of it I’ve seen.

>>64489576
>Why did H&K design and produce it at all?

H&K started to invest heavily in polymers in the 90's and decided to apply their new technologies to simplify (and increase profit margins on) an existing product, that being the UMP.

And as to why it never really took off, military/paramilitary spending/interest in Europe dropped off after the cold war and so few had the reason or means to replace their existing inventory of MP5s with a new, nearly-identically-preforming submachine gun, which, coupled with higher-tier units in the 2000's moving towards adopting shortened intermediate carbines (with H&K even introducing their own in the form of their super-short G36 variants), put the gun in a very awkward spot. To note as well, I think the size of the UMP is a bit deceptive; it's marginally-shorter than a 10.5" AR and isn't the slimmest gun, especially when folded, which brings it so close to the bulk of the latter you may as well upgrade to a more powerful cartridge as well.

>>64489739
Another great response, thank you anon.

>>64489576
>Why did company make bad thing
How old are you, honestly

>>64489827
back to plebbit, Brainlet. That was a sub-plebbit tier post

>>64488176
the UMP was the price reduced option to the MP5 lmao

>>64489707
Holy ChatGPT Batman!

>>64489850
>muh batman comic strip
another plebbitard that doesn't belong on 4chan
Get Out

>>64488176
>only place that ever had any interest in .45
>that ever
>evar
Philippine Marines
Morocco
multiple South American and African countries
United Kingdom
Iran
Japan
France
Vietnam
and others

>>64488176
It is in 40 S&W and 9mm also

>>64487378
Metal costs money, anon and H&K is more interested in making money than guns.

>>64487329 (OP)
Worthless by every metric.

No real point to 45/40 anymore. IF you want a cheap blowback subgun the cz scorpion is the best on the market. No reason to buy a several thousand dollar hk when you can get a gun that has better magazines and is far cheaper.

The UMP is also a much larger platform, meaning the whole benefit of subguns, being small and easy to stow, is lost, we can get cheaper ars in 300 or even shorty 5.56 for the same size as a 45 acp ump.

>>64489966
the two best present-day submachine guns are Beretta's PMX (adaptation of B&T's P26 design) and the MP9 (B&T adaptation/buyout of Steyr's TMP design)

Trigger is ass.

>>64489993
Good guns, mp9 and tp9 are really cool.

Personally I like the CZ scorpion because of how much modding you can do if you want, logistics are great and magazines are cheap and reliable.

to me, the value prop of subguns starts to lose its allure at a few grand when the scorpion is a NATO spec subgun for far less.

B&T does make the best pccs by far, but is the value propposition there? Much harder to get spare parts and mags. My kinda view on subguns are besides fun, 1. pdw concept, something like the micro. 2. Something light you carry in addition to your rifle when patrolling as a hush puppy.

>>64489101
Why not? A lack of demand for submachine guns.

>>64487335
Post body or shut the fuck up, namefag.

>>64489101
Yes they are answers you fucking faggot. No one bought the UMP that mattered, no one was wanting SMGs anymore, so it's all irrelevant whether the M3 was better or not. I'm 95% sure you're just a chat bot anyways looking through your bizarre responses through this thread, so blow it out your non-sentient ass.

>>64490232
>hurr durr muh ump just suxxxx mm'kay
Fuck (You) plebbitard Brainlet FAGGOT Fuck Tard.
Get the fuck off of my site and Stay Off Of It.

>>64490264
Take a deep breath, anon, and let it out slowly.

>>64490300
checked
It's pitiable that (You) have no life. # 64489385
but, not my problem

>>64487329 (OP)
>it cant be that bad
It's worse. Literally fuckhuge solid metal brick of a bolt that makes it recoil more than 556 in full-retard. That's why nobody bought it and H&K is still selling MP5s to law enforcement contracts. The only place in where they shined was in videogames, specially the original CoD MW2.

>>64490576
>nobody bought it
Australia
Brazil
Canada
France
Georgia
Jordan
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Malaysia
Mexico
Paraguay
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Serbia
Slovakia
South Africa
Spain

>>64489173
Fuck off outta here then you whiny bitch. Jesus Christ, you sound like a broad with a PMS.

>>64490591
>ree-eeee-eeeeeeee
(You) have me confused with the menstruator upthread.
Get The Fuck ****OFF**** of my board, Faggot.

>>64490588
cool man we can all go to wikipedia and see the list of users. just like how it shows a list of users for the P90 even though no one actually uses the P90.

>>64490604
>'n-nobody bought it', 'n-nobody uses it'
just shut up.
Do you ever, *ever* just Shut The Fuck Up?
ever?

>>64490609
He didn’t mean literally no one. You’re being pedantic.

To soothe your ‘tism, I shall reframe the anon’s point thus: compared to the MP5, the UMP has had very underwhelming sales and sees comparatively little use among police and military units.

>>64490631
>hurr durr it's pedantic reddit!

>>64490632
Correct. Pedantic. Do you want to have an actual discussion, or do you just want to throw your own shit like a monkey?

>>64490644
>literally
Just *shut*
*the*
*FUCK*
*up*

Dumb Fuck.
back to plebbit Brainlet

The topic is already over, everything relevant was posted upthread.
Stay off of 4chan (You) do *not* belong here. Back to plebbit, midwit

>>64490588
All I'm seeing here are a bunch of nobodies.

>>64487329 (OP)
I think it's underrated. Does it shoot as nice as an MP5? No, but it's got a lot of other advantages over it that got swept under the rug. It also saw more deployment among military and LE than it gets credit for.

>>64490646
>>64490599
is there a name for this kind of unhinged posting?

>>64490599
Fuck off you retarded homosexual. Go take your goddamn ritalin and shut the fuck up while the actual adults are having a conversation. Moronic pederast.

>>64490646
I don’t obey the edicts of niggers.

>>64490652
I mean, it’ll sling lead, but it wouldn’t be my first choice if I had a choice.

>>64490655
>>64490658
>>64490669
>REEEE-EEEEE-EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
This board /k/ Weapons is a simulacrum of what it once was.
Back to plebbit every single last one of you

I find it kind of amusing that the entire thread is incredibly butthurt mad about one thread about a gun that everyone seems to agree is shit. It's a shitpost thread on a gun. On /k/. That's fucking standard. No one complains when someone posts "1911 good" or "Beretta sexy". It's just shitposting. That's the majority of threads on some days. Other days are better. You have to sift the catalog to find good threads on some days. If you don't like it don't bump it. Simple as. As for the trip code, why? Why are you using a trip code? The only time I used a trip was when some anon asked me to when I was doing an image dump on a humor thread on /x/. Are you here to farm our loosh, tripcode? I'm not mad and don't care, I just wonder why? Isn't a (you) which I'm not giving (you) good enough?

I came here to say that I thought US SOCOM bought a limited number of UMP's in .45 ACP and thought I would ask if anyone knew why and what the use case would be, because sometimes I like to interact with human beings instead of AI, which are the only (beings) that will put up with my neverending walls of text and correct my uncritical blathering about nonsense revealed to me in a dream.

>>64490576
I remember it sucking in Rainbow Six: Vegas.

>>64490704
>everyone seems to agree is shit
The only reason anyone of the younger-than-Gen-X demographic even knows about it is videogames, which includes 4 out of 5 posters itt

>butthurt
Yes whenever anyone posts something relevant to Weapons / the Weapon of OP picrel, the butthurt flows. Let it flow

As (You) have pointed out, SOCOM did purchase UMPs in .45 ACP for the early 2003-ish phases of gwot. Nobody itt seems to gaf about that however

>>64490704
For what it’s worth, I’ve enjoyed the parts of the thread written by civilized human beings. It’s an interesting topic, a case of a company trying to push an inferior but cheaper product to ultimately mediocre results.

>>64487329 (OP)
M3 is better.

>>64490745
Yes it is an interesting topic.
when the (human or not) posters start posting 'nobody used it' then it becomes less interesting and feels more like being on plebbit than 4chan

>>64487329 (OP)
>make a cheaper mp5
>charge more money
>just german things

>>64490879
>more money
Is the factory price, right now 2025, for a 9 mm UMP more than an MP5?

>>64490760
>>64490745
>>64490704
Is the bot replying to itself?

>>64490934
What is (You)r obsession with 'muh bots'?
what blew up this time

Can you just please go back to plebbit and leave the adults to discuss grownup matters? thx

>>64490704
>Beretta sexy
that was me!

I shot one back-to-back with an MP5 at a rental range and have also fired full-auto ARs on other occasions. The UMP simply sucks to shoot. It feels like a big plastic airsoft gun and has weird see-saw recoil. The MP5 is a laser beam, there is no comparison. If I was working procurement for any agency in 199X that had a locker full of MP5s it would take a very hefty bribe to get me to buy UMPs.

>>64488207
>HK jews
doubt

>>64488938
What an inspirationally stupid post.
>So why would any military purchase it?
No military that really mattered did in any real quantity. No military was buying *any* SMG in real quantity when the UMP came out.
>Why isn't the M3A1 still in production.
Because at the time there were still plenty surplused and no one had made them for half a century.

>>64491127
>'I-I'm an actual retard'

Here is the list of UMP users:
>Australia
>Brazil
>Canada
>France
>Georgia
>Jordan
>Latvia
>Liechtenstein
>Malaysia
>Mexico
>Paraguay
>Poland
>Portugal
>Romania
>Serbia
>Slovakia
>South Africa
>Spain

>'i-in any real quantity'
No military has purchase submachine guns "in any quantity" since World War II.
They're not used and haven't been for SEVENTY YEARS, it's a dead small arm. Don't (You) know that, FUck Tard?
go back to plebbit where the larpairsoftstreamvideogames are being discussed. And change those diapers

>>64491151
Please read my post again and refrain from replying with such childish blithering.

>>64489101
This nigger enjoys the sensation of multiple colored penises in his mouth and anus at the same time. I heard his record is 3 in his mouth and 4 in his ass. And all at the SAME TIME! In short, dude is a gigantic faggot.

>>64490655
I've used "Schizo LARPing" to describe that kind of forced bullshit.

>>64489173
>The "discussion" of OP topic could ? be centered around .45 ACP submachine guns technical-capability-per-technical-capability comparison (irrespective of whether "submachine guns even matter"
I would guess mainly bc the m3a1 isnt as accurate nor can you stick attachments to it.
Good guns regularly get replaced just because of these 2 "issues". Either that or corruption like what happened with the replacement of the beretta 92 with the sig where testing phases were skipped.

>>64489101
We might be "retards", but (((you))) >>64491179
are a nigger-loving cocksucker. You lick nigger/spic/kike testicles. Kek. You nigger-lover.

>>64491158
>>64491179
>>64491188
>reee-eeee-eeeeeeeee
Back to plebbit fucking Midwit Brainlets.

This thread is proof of the IQ-lowering power of post-2008 social media on zoomlennials, who are by default also streamlarpvideogame addicts.
Dumb Fucks, in other words.

>>64491007
What cal? Both 9mm?

>>64491180
That's the 'nobody ever used UMPs' posters, correct.

>>64491197
>>64491151
Why are you typing like this?

>>64491224
Why are (You) posting in this thread?
it's of zero interest correct?
nobody bought the UMP and it's obsolete, correct?
why bother posting in the topic
or you want to bring it to 310? Shall we do that

>actually have experience with SMGs, from interwar to modern day
>about to reply
>see half of the thread is some mentally ill dipshit vomiting out barely coherent tirades for 12 hours
>move on

>>64491248
>'i-i'm a larper but had to post on social media to prove it'

>>64491271
Meme until 310? it's 4chan right

Nobody gave a fuck about this topic (which was worthless from the outset since the UMP was an obsolete abortion that never should have been produced or even invented) and it should have ended after ten posts but let's go ahead and make a ragememespew fest for two hundred more posts since it's already well on it's way there.
I'm watching/listening to podcasts (way off-topic from /k/) so idgaf

I seriously do not give a fuck. Let's go

>>64491248
>about to
>move on

>>64489885
irrelevant shitholes

>>64491340
Maybe.
but they still bought and use it
doesn't matter anyway because submachine guns are irrelevant in 2025 and the UMP is an abortion that never even should have been designed or invented, a joke videogame firearm. According to the experts in first dozen posts itt