Thread 64495543

Why are some african governments so eager to cooperate with Russia/Wagner if they are so incompetent? Its been like 2 years Wagner has been called up in Mali and now the country's capital just about to fall, and all they have to their name is killing some villagers.

>A months-long siege on the Malian capital, Bamako, by the armed al-Qaeda affiliate group, Jama’at Nusrat al-Islam wal-Muslimin (JNIM), has brought the city to breaking point, causing desperation among residents and, according to analysts, placing increasing pressure on the military government to negotiate with the group – something it has refused to do before now.

>JNIM’s members have created an effective economic and fuel blockade by sealing off major highways used by tankers to transport fuel from neighbouring Senegal and the Ivory Coast to the landlocked Sahel country since September.

>>64495543 (OP)
complete random shot in the dark guess here, I assume it's because the Africans are expecting significant Russian support or closer ties with the ivans as part of the deal.

SHOGIU FIX IT WITH YOUR AFRIKA KORPS YOU WOOD SELLING MERCHANT.

>>64495543 (OP)
>Why are some african governments so eager to cooperate with Russia/Wagner if they are so incompetent?
Because Russia speaks and breathes corruption. Something that a lot of African nations also speak and breathe in

You'd think they'd learn, but it seems they don't.

>>64495543 (OP)
>Why are some african governments so eager to cooperate with Russia/Wagner if they are so incompetent?
Because they're not Western Europe/France, who they distanced themselves from after the 2021 coup. It's not that complicated, literally open wikipedia and click on Mali's leader.

>>64495668
>You'd think they'd learn, but it seems they don't.
inb4 that quote from Niger's outsted president.

>>64495543 (OP)
Lack of basic information we take for granted. They don't even known Wagner is basically being sent to suicide itself after it became a political threat to its parent oligarchy. Mali shall make a nice casket.

>>64495668
>>64495754
>>64495543 (OP)
They'll just blame france and whitey

>>64495790
Technically, the flashpoint for a lot of the current bullshit was imperial rule dividing populations. Tribes ended up scattered across several imperial provinces, held by different countries. When imperial rule ended, the former colonial powers didn't try to push for ethnostates, preferring instead to codify the borders of their ex-provinces into post-colonial countries. So you end up with Muslims and Christians or Animists glued together into a single disfunctional country. End result being the Sudanese Civil War, or the continuous jihad in Nigeria, or several other such conflicts.
Unfortunately, the Africans themselves don't seem to want to secede and reform into ethnostates, preferring instead to kill the other tribes in order to become king shit.

>>64495811
Why can't they solve their differences? Why continue the pointless cycle of violence, killing and destruction?

>>64495811
>>64495790
It's been nearly 80 years since European rule ended for the vast majority of the continent. It's literally just nigger behavior thats the cause. Even the Chinese know this

>>64495844
>>64495853
Crab bucket behavior is one helluva drug.

>>64495844
Like >>64495811 said, they think that they'll be the last warlord standing. They will literally burn everything down if there's a chance they could be king of the ashes.

>>64495649

I fucking hate how Wagniggers slander the legacy of the Wehrmacht by using that name.

>>64495543 (OP)
>Why are some african governments so eager to cooperate with Russia/Wagner if they are so incompetent?
They are even more incompetent.

>>64495668
>You'd think they'd learn, but it seems they don't.
Many such cases.
https://youtu.be/TpCb3xjh-Kk?t=153

Government/military corruption is just the same kind of fraud as wall st and mafia schemes. It's the same old idea to just take more and somehow you'll get away with it and if everyone else burns as a result, you got yours and got out.

>>64495811
>the former colonial powers didn't try to push for ethnostates
Because it's a terrible idea that would've been more expensive and far bloodier for everyone involved.
How are you going to resolve thousands upon thousands of overlapping claims? It'd be like pic related but for an entire continent

>>64495543 (OP)
>Why are some african governments so eager to cooperate with Russia/Wagner if they are so incompetent?
Blackmail, bribes and threats. The aim of wager operations is twofild
1)Be self funding usually by controling natural resources and human trafficing and payments from warlords provide hard currency cash to Moscow
2)Destabalise the african nations they operate to create immigration flows to Europe as part of Putins hybrid warfare mass immigration .campaign against the EU and UK.

>>64495543 (OP)
>Why are some african governments so eager to cooperate with Russia/Wagner if they are so incompetent? Its been like 2 years Wagner has been called up in Mali and now the country's capital just about to fall, and all they have to their name is killing some villagers.
>2)Destabalise the african nations they operate to create immigration flows to Europe as part of Putins hybrid warfare mass immigration campaign against the EU and UK.

see what;'s happening in Sudan as an example. Simply put Wagner/GRU *same people stop pretending it is now) arein it for any short term gibs they can get and to cause chaos that results in refugee caravans they can direct to Europe and profit from

You might find some of this interesting as well

https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/11/08/russian-mercenary-network-congo-moldova-romania-elections-wagner/

.Wagner IS the GRU

t6his is the same ashit that exists and they keep tring in Canada by the way (hi /cangen.)
https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/11/08/russian-mercenary-network-congo-moldova-romania-elections-wagner/

>>64495543 (OP)
>>64495571
Third-world dictators still think Russia is the Soviet Union and that an agreement with Putin is as good as an agreement with the US (with fewer moral/legal strings attached). The inertia will only die with them.

>>64496922
dat ass

>>64496918
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdrzdpre058o
Not just the leaders, note the tone here that's "saying Russia is bad is wectoid propaganda" despite everything that happened

>>64495543 (OP)
russian soldiers are more willing to help perform ethnic cleansings

>>64495790
>They'll just blame france
That's the right thing to do. France did fuck all to quell the militants.

>>64496948
Nigger please, France had beaten them back to the point Malians got cocky and thought they didn't need them anymore.

Same patten in Syria. Create ISIS to legitimise Assad and attack Iraq, push immigration flows to Europe with Assad handing out identity papers to people who opposed him he wanted out of the country. GRU shit being GRU shit. For the first year of ISIS existence the GRU ran listening stations and directed theSyrian airforce to never bomb ISIS only otherr anti-assad factions and particularly any fighting ISIS.

When it comes to Canada and the EU find expendible tards for plauible deniability via shit like Albertian sepratism, the truckers strike, the Russian imperial movement, atomwaffen, acive clubs, /cangen/ meets etc and work them up by grooming them in active clubs, meets, paintball small scale stunts like shooting up transformers or substations, same shit in the US, then ship them to training camps that used to be near St.Petersberg and even Sweden but are now more disbursed and temporary, the some shithole work in africa and back to Canada or the EU or whereever to work on rioting etc, They particularly like washed out ex services and loner weapons nuts desperate to belong they love fucking airsoft sites and clubs by the way.

>>64496939
>"There is a lot of fake news when it comes to Russia, trying to make Russia look bad. The Special Economic Zone used to have people working there from Europe and America, but they all left after the Ukraine-Russia war because of the sanctions on Russia. So when Russia started looking for Africans to work there, it felt like they were just trying to fill up the spots the Europeans left."
>She still thinks it's just "propaganda"
Niggers.

>>64496944
>russian soldiers are more willing to help perform ethnic cleansings
Most wagner low level recuits are not Russian but from other nations

>>64496918
Wagner specifically also just isn't what it used to be after Prigozhin died. Putin killed off him, the founder, and the logistics chief and then replaced them with loyal spooks.

>>64496966
https://theconversation.com/russian-imperial-movement-how-a-far-right-group-outlawed-by-the-uk-is-spreading-terror-across-europe-260825

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-safety-canada/news/2021/02/government-of-canada-lists-13-new-groups-as-terrorist-entities-and-completes-review-of-seven-others.html

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/active-clubs-facts-1.7586641

>>64496977
Prigozhin? It was always a GRU operation and Prigozhin had his hand in corcode/glavset to try and conceal funding too

>>64496966
Rim/GRU/Wager were also involved in shit like grafitti on churches in spaonn/catalonia, church burnings in France, yellow vests, golden dawn, IRSP in Ireland, active clubs/patriotic alternative clubs in the UK and canada and are very active in riot incitement in Northern Ireland/Ireland, UK, Canada etc etc as well as m ost reacently arson of warehouses in the UK

I'm a bit exponent of those involved simply being labeled enemy combatants/terrorists . Being stupid or lonley is not a legal defense for treason.

>>64496990
>>64497014
Fascinating, but I fail to see what any of this has to do with zesty bucks.

>>64495571
It's also because unlike the evil, imperialist french, the russians didn't try to impose things like legitimate elections, a functional economy, not embezzling your nation's wealth and not killing random civilians.

>>64495954
What legacy, Patton folded them like a cheap suit.

>>64497027
Monkey to monkey transition.

>>64495844
>Why can't they solve their differences?
Because they had breakfast

>>64497014
>Rim/GRU/Wager were also involved in shit like grafitti on churches in spaonn/catalonia, church burnings in France,
sauce

>>64496948
Surely mali must be doing a better job

>>64495543 (OP)
>Why are some african governments so eager to cooperate with Russia/Wagner if they are so incompetent?
I think it's ideology. The governments that cooperated with the French were pragmatists, but the French presence polarized the political situation. For example the French provided aid to the Tuaregs in the north against the jihadis, but those guys are separatists which made the local nationalists even madder than they already were. The military officers then used that anger as a springboard to carry out coups but the ideology they're working with is not a positive one, it's built on a mix of historical resentment, identity obsessions, and a conservative-authoritarian view of society. The Russians can be very persuasive to such people even if what they're doing looks an awful lot like neo-colonialism and actually fucking things up and destabilizing this part of the world even more is in their interest because that = bad for Europe

>>64499242
They're not. But the way I read it explained, for the average Malian boomer, there was still insecurity, jihadi terrorism, and then he also sees French soldiers rolling around in armored vehicles, but all he really understands is chaos and French and chaos and French which makes that guy very receptive to messages like "the chaos is because of the French" being beamed into his smartphone along with videos of VLADIMIR PUTIN WALKING LIKE A BOSS. So that guy goes out and cheers when the military then overthrows the civilian government (which frankly is also incompetent, corrupt, etc.) but now the security situation is far worse than before, and the government are jumped-up troops who will kick you to death if you speak out.

>>64495543 (OP)
>Al Qaeda affiliate
Wow. Do they like have to license the Al Qaeda™ brand and pay royalties?

>>64495543 (OP)
Islam has unique appeal to retarded people so this is an inevitable and welcome change that will have the additional effect of giving so called anti-racists a better excuse to hate black people and a deeper line in the sand for race traitors to cross (conversion to zuttslam)

I hope all of africa and all black people worldwide become one with zuttslam

>>64496882
By dissolving the colonial constructs as they pulled out and letting the locals find their own footing establishing the borders. Without interfering no matter what happens. Nothing good came from euros interfering in negroid land or other sewers of the planet like pajeetia. Today this continues with trying to keep these zombie states alive or massive charity programs feeding entire regions that multiply uncontrollably

The least they could do is remove their mark completely

>>64495543 (OP)
I shudder to think what a AQ spinoff with access to a state's resources might get up to, but I'm gonna spend the collapse of the junta enjoying it. Hope the ringleaders get the ISIS execution special.

Shouldn't have bitten the had that feeds, motherfuckers.

>>64495811
>Technically, the flashpoint for a lot of the current bullshit was imperial rule dividing populations
Nah, that's leftie cope. Imperial rule and colonization was a source of the issue, but not due to borders. It's way more simple and less PC than that: imperial rule uplifted barely human retarded into a modicum of civilization, with things working because they were forced and managed by the colonial power, then once the colonial power went away all of the local society went limp, like a hand puppet after the hand getting removed.
It's unironically a bit of a similar issue with post-soviet societies: bolsheviks fucked over most of the normal things out of people and then when the party stopped managing people it all left most of those people acting like a chicken with its head cut off.

>>64499585
Their managers have to work under the policies of the main franchise. They even have to arrange the IEDs in the right order on the shelves.

>>64499722
NTA but you're both kind of right. One of the issues with the end of colonial rule a lot of places was that handing over functioning institutions is really, really hard at the best of times. You need to educate and train a lot of people to do a lot of jobs that they weren't previously, and probably more importantly you need cultural buy-in.
If people see the current state as something imposed upon them by foreigners then they're not going to be as invested in keeping it functional and improving it.
>>64499379
Unfortunately it can be pretty easy to channel people's frustration with a bad situation into making it worse for themselves if you're clever about it. Hard to explain to someone that even if they are right about the French being here sucking, the alternatives aren't better.

>>64499834
Some of the colonial powers embarked on (admittedly limited) structuralist programs in the late 1800s. Unfortunately, it takes about three generations for those programs to start making headway, and the whole thing got short-circuited by the world wars. You'll notice that a lot of anticolonial leaders were Western-educated, and were the children of people who got low-level jobs in the colonial administration. They were the second generation. Had the programs continued unimpeded, their children would've likely been able to keep the lights on without chimping out, if imperial rule were to end.

>>64499888
Among many other differences, I think one of the more important aspects of why places like the US or Australia were able to pretty smoothly transition to self-rule was most of the people currently running the place got a new job title in a new government instead of a boat home. Not so much 'the colonisers leaving the locals to it' as much as a splinter of the original coloniser's culture and society developing into its own thing.
The fact that they were doing this while everyone's been first scrambling to shut out influence of their ideological rivals in the cold war and then trying to wring out any resources they can on the continent probably hasn't helped either, not to imply the only problems Africa's having are imported of course.

>>64499913
One important factor was distance. Far easier to develop local authority if the imperial seat of power was 2 months' (tallship) roundtrip away, instead of a week.

>>64495811
Whoa, hold there buster.
Are you implying forcing different ethnicities, religions and cultures to live in the same place causes extreme levels of violence and political tension?
I will not stand for such bigotry.
Diversity is strength.

>>64499950
They sure as shit do when they're forcibly smushed together by some random faggot with a gun.

>>64499722
>>64499834
>>64499888
One thing to note is that French colonial inflence was less in the Sahel compared to coastal African countries such as Senegal where French attitudes about republicanism (along with a state civil service etc.) have had more influence. There was some of that in the Sahel but not as much, and there are political scientists from there who teach at French universities such as Rahmane Idrissa (he loathes the juntas BTW) who will say that the military juntas are actually a return to the pre-colonial pattern of rule by warlords going back to the Songhai Empire, which if anyone here is familiar with it's probably through the Crusader Kings games. These are popular putsches at least at first because there's just an appetite for military rule among the local population. The military doesn't act unless they feel a vibe shift in the streets. It's also very possible if not likely the current guys will get overthrown by their own officers at some point.

Another thing I've been trying to get a handle on is the internal politics of these countries and how that has changed over time. Also the sort of pro-junta intellectuals and what they believe. It's a very weird sort of Ankh-wearing pan-African nationalism that is anti-Western (particularly anti-French) but ultra-conservative as well. There's a new religious movement called Kemetism which has tried to construct a religion around ancient Egyptian gods and holds that ancient Egyptians were black. There's this one guy Kemi Seba who is like a black fascist, a big zigger fag and Alexander Dugin fan as well. It's like this:
https://youtu.be/lr0So1SpQ0w
https://youtu.be/OMraoJY8nis

But you'll see these types also appropriate historical figures like Kwama Nkrumah or Thomas Sankara, who were leftist leaders. Then you have Western leftists who have cheered on these juntas, but it's not the same thing because the left-wing regimes back in the 1960s in these countries were often critical of the "traditional society" like chiefdoms or ethnic caste systems.

>>64495811
>didn't try to push for ethnostates,
You know that was basically impossible, right? African tribes were on constant fluctuation, and any border would pass through areas that at least five ethnicities considered as their own at once. Basically the only solution would have been to not draw any borders and let africans fight it out on their own.

>>64499379
ahh yes the plexus of the Andrew Tate wave and BREAKING: PUTIN ENTERED A ROOM
while proto-Phonk plays in the background

>>64500100
>Basically the only solution would have been to not draw any borders and let africans fight it out on their own.

I am in favor of a continental blockade of Africa (nothing goes out - including refugees or ores, and nothing goes in - including weapons or gibs) and letting Nature find its proper balance again.

Basically the Prime Directive from Star Trek

>>64495543 (OP)
>Why are some african governments so eager to cooperate with Russia/Wagner if they are so incompetent?
Personal gain is hell of a drug for political leaders.

>>64500205
>Personal gain is hell of a drug for political leaders.
This is why student politics is so important, it helps identify these types at an early age.

>>64497069
Technically true, they did that only to Eastern Europe and West Asia.
...Wait, is this the argument?

>>64500219
>This is why student politics is so important, it helps identify these types at an early age.
I don't think student or youth politics matter that much in Africa where nations don't exactly have things like rule of law, whole concept of checks and balanced is practically alien to entire continent. Corruption in Africa is whole different level than in rest of the world. Only forms checks and balances there range from revolution to open separatist rebellion and civil war. Political leaders that went too far in enriching themselves don't face impeachment or court of justice, they face lynching mob beating them to death.

First thread in a while ive actually enjoyed and read the whole way through.

God Africa is such a mess right now though, and the rise of social media along with the prevelence of smartphones in everyday life is still causing carnage on the contient, and will only get worse. Not being a total race baiter here but just making a point, the effect that shitty low quality social media propaganda videos, comments, articles etc. you see pumped out by those russia/china alligned troll farms are seriously effective on the less educated, less intelligent, poor and angry population. They seem to eat the whole 'strong man' politics shite up and beg for seconds, even while its getting them killed in their own streets.
And Ive seen this at home too, its the same type of person in the same type of situation in life, not educated(not talking snotty college education, I mean like basic enough level), poor and angry at their lot. They absoluelty love that crap and regurgitate all the talking points at any given chance, and are all massive ziggers, I well aware of it because I work with them daily. They are the perfect hybrid war machine, because you get even a few of them worked up enough and they spread it far and wide to anyone who'll listen, its like a self-replicating weapon that dosent even realize its been created, not born. And for some reason, all the things they argue for seem to allign with Russian interests, curious.

I think if theres ever going to be another attempt to help Africa, and sort out the constant cycle of war and coup that seems to run rampant there, one of the first major steps is solving this information crisis, fuck it even at home its needed. But it has to be solved at the root, not by limiting free speech in your own country, but by tracking down and dismanteling these hybrid war operations and their centers. How? I dont know, but I think if we ever want to move on from this quagmire we find ourselves in at the moment, we need to seriously fight back.

>>64500477
>I think if theres ever going to be another attempt to help Africa
Please stop right there.
Nobody can "help" Africa. Anyone who ever tried only made things worse.
You help people by letting them solve it by themselves.

>>64500486
Very true, I do think I phrased that wrong. I more meant if you wanted to secure a region so you could still have access to it, and its resouces to purchase or mine. Much more difficult to do buisness when the place is on the verge of anarchy constantly.

>>64500477
Ever hear of Facebook's global internet rollout program? 'internet . org' at first, now rebranded to Free Basics. It gives free access to a walled garden, walled to the point that in some surveys in poorer Asian and African countries users didn't even realise that Facebook was an internet platform and that by using it, they were using the internet.
In other words even if you wanted to, you can't look up things in greater detail or click through to see how accurate someone's claims about an article are. They're hooking millions of people in these countries up to the Lying Slop Machine without any alternative options.

>>64495543 (OP)
Is it really that bad if Al Qaeda takes over Mali? The president of Syria is in the white house today and he was in Al Qaeda and many other terrorist groups.

>>64500545
I forgot about that, thanks for reminding me.

My only regret is that we can only hang Fuckerberg once. But maybe we can make an exception to the cruel and unusual for just once and add some drawing and quartering.

>>64499619
>letting the locals find their own footing establishing the border
How the fuck do you think that's going to work

>>64500558
I'm not saying the man's an agent for Russia, China or some other actor with a bone to pick with the west but he would struggle to be doing a better job if he was.

>Why are some african governments so eager to cooperate with Russia/Wagner if they are so incompetent?

It's a symptom of the decline of France's neo-colonial empire and the failure of Nigeria to fill the void which has created these broken border states. What we're seeing is the result of decades of abysmal and short-sighted French policy combined with stresses from climate change economic collapse that make running a state or an effective counter-insurgency impossible.

Back in the 00s the west recognised that the War on Terror wasn't just a conflict in the military domain but an entire ecosystem of interventions but it was expensive and we got bored so even the French intervention in Mali was all show on the fighting end (initially) but nothing to back it up. Even the underlying Tuareg rebellion was never solved.

>the country's capital just about to fall

JNIM isn't going for that, it wants to make a deal for fuel smuggling so it can continue to fund its insurgency. It wouldn't be able to take the capital and if it did JNIM would have no way of running it even if you ignore the inevitable international intervention.

This also plays into the old dynamic of post-colonial Africa between urban centres and the rural countryside.

>>64500477
Yeah I don't understand how naïve we are in the west about this. Thirdie media laps up free tv channels and news articles from China and Russia which becomes the only narrative and then people act surprised when the ones that do get into the western infosphere are living in a fantasy world.

>>64495811
>>64500122
This is just a close-minded approach to Africa that treats it like the Old World where identity is a neat process. In reality African states are more like the New World where there hasn't been centuries of sorting and identity which in turn requires solutions similar to the New World.

But really the one thing that would sort this mess out is 3-4 successful pillar states to police the subregions.

>>64500545
Never heard of that, good lord that's depressing. No wonder they're in the state they are, some of the disinfo that's been spewed at me as fact is just flat out untrue, like not even a kernel of truth to make it believable or argumentative, just straight up chaotic disinfo. The look they give when you question it is telling aswell, its almost vacant, like they didn't even consider it, or sometimes they just outright dismiss you as 'your to far gone', like Jesus Christ, get a grip. And that's from some of the people I know in work, not third world hellholes, I can only imagine the level they are at, god help us.

>>64500581
>Yeah I don't understand how naïve we are in the west about this. Thirdie media laps up free tv channels and news articles from China and Russia which becomes the only narrative and then people act surprised when the ones that do get into the western infosphere are living in a fantasy world.
We are sleepwalking into a nightmare with this issue, and I have little faith in our current system to handle this correctly, knowing they will probably start a war on free speech as if that's the issue at the core, validating these dregs that lap up the disinfo in the process by playing right into the hands of the enemy and kicking off real civil unrest. And honestly, if it did come to that, suddenly your own government system is genuinely now the greater evil of the two in my eyes, and then pandoras box is well and truly open, and we're all fucked. I dont even like thinking about it.

>>64500054
>Frogskin G3s

>>64496907
>Simply put Wagner/GRU *same people stop pretending it is now)
Don't confuse the field niggers with the house niggers and boss niggers.
There's quite a bit of difference between the two.

For one, GRU goes through intelligence training and shit and are trusted to do complicated espionage.
Wagner just stir shit up in Africa and runs a propaganda outfit that takes GRU direction anyway.

They're really not the same people, one is just directed by the other (and until the march, always was).
It's even less than actual orders, it's more like GRU sets direction and talking points and leaves Wagner to get the job done.

>>64500122
Predictions like these seem optimistic with how dependent on outside food aid africa is. According to doctors in Sudan 500k infants died starved to death since 2023 and that's with some aid still able to get through. If aid stops fully somehow what's gonna happen?

>>64495811
>disfunctional
ESL moment.

>>64495811
Splitting into ethnostates was costly and time consuming and wasn't actually a solution. Go look at India. India chimped out and demanded independence after WW2. The Bongs tried to sort it out along specific lines but got told they were delaying tactics. So the Bongs just went 'Fuck it, here's one of the largest, resource rich countries on the planet, enjoy, fuckers' and then they immediately started killing each other over *checks notes* religion. Then after they had finally settled down and made their border gore states (literally was a point in time where a part of India was inside a part of Bangladesh which was in part of India... Or the otherway around I can't remember) they started blaming the Brits for everything (as per). Then hated them so much they moved to that country en masse and raped their kids.

>>64495853
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w72Ovmelvmc

>>64495811
>So you end up with Muslims and Christians or Animists glued together into a single disfunctional country.
This is impossible, diversity makes us stronger!

>>64497098
>What legacy

>Gazala
>Second Tobruk
>Mersa Matruh
>Sidi Bou Zid
>Kasserine Pass

Really nigger?