Thread 64497594

>>64497594 (OP)
Italian hores

>>64497594 (OP)
The great irony of this pic is that Russia at one time tried the centauro and was very close to getting some before they chimped out on Crimea. They got a lot of stuff from western Europe pre-2014, strange times. I wonder if they still have those 3 trial centauros still kicking about somewhere

>>64497636
The amount of leeway, good faith and forgiveness Russia got even after Georgia even after Crimea is insane. Everyone was fucking tripping over themselves to desperately help them and do things for them and these snow apes still acted like "the west' was encroaching and threatening them. Narcissism on a global scale.

The 259 remaining Centauro I tank destroyers of the Italian army are being replaced by 150 Centauro IIs
Rumors of a donation to Ukraine have been growing since the beginning of 2025. According to OSINTers, around 20 are present in northeastern Ukraine
The Centauro I is similar to the AMX-10Rc, a powerful gun, highly mobile but a weak armor
The Italian Army is currently undergoing a major re-equipment program. Ukraine is the great beneficiary of this renewal by acquiring some of the decommissioned equipment. What Italy is giving away is not brand new, but the quantity is significant
In general, Italy has been discreet about its aid to Ukraine, but it is doing a lot
They also gave Ukraine between 100 and 140 M109L self-propelled howitzers, dozens of 6x6 and 4x4 Puma AFVs, dozens if not hundreds of VCC-1 and 2 (Italian M113 variants), M548s (tracked cargo carriers based on the M113) and an unknown number of BV 206 and 206s (tracked articulated, all-terrain carriers) and Iveco LMVs ( Infantry mobility vehicles)

>>64497775
Growing up is realizing the 'America loves oil' memes apply to the rest whole world as well.

>>64497775
when crimea happened everyone in europe stopped selling russia military hardware.
france was going to sell them two mistral LHDs, one of which was already finished and months away from delivery and they blew the deal, kept the russian money (kek) and sold it off to egypt.

>>64498071
When's the last time china invaded a country for its natural resource? They can conquer central Asia tomorrow and the west wouldn't be able to do anything about it

>>64498172
It would have probably performed as well as the rafael, France did russia a favor

>>64497594 (OP)
The Ukrainian drone up-armor looks so much better than the russians. Like someone actually thought about it before welding shit everywhere.

>>64498176
>When's the last time china invaded a country for its natural resource?
Last military invasion?
Vietnam. Which they lost.
Last extortion / Scam operation?
Pick any ongoing Belt&Road scam.

>>64498176
they dont really need to, african slaves give them all the lythium/coltan/whatever they need.
they still built a military base in djibouti like the americans (and probably others we don't know about) so military expansionism and force projection capabilities are of interest to them.

>>64498176
damn Rajesh, you kinda forgot some wars here and there.

>1st chechen war:
>civilian deaths was between 30,000 and 100,000. Over 200,000 Chechen civilians injured, 500,000 people were displaced,
>2nd chechen war:
>30,000 civilians dead (25,000 killed and 5,000 missing) according to Amnesty International

And Ukraine is pass the 15k civilian deaths now

>>64498192
>Vietnam
How much oil does vietnam have? Vietnam was the aggressor in that war btw, they attacked China's allies in Cambodia prompting an intervention
>Last extortion / Scam operation?
>Pick any ongoing Belt&Road scam.
I see were Still seething about that port china is building in peru

>>64498205
>a decade spanning conflict in an age with no smart munitions caused less civilian casualties than two years in gaza
What a self own

>>64498172
Wrong, there have been Sosna-Us using French made Catherine FC modules dated to 2016 and 17. Moreover they further economically encouraged Russia with the Nordstream 2 pipeline. Not to rag on the Euros but it just drives me up a wall when they have the nerve to say WE are the unreliable allies
>>64498176
1979, if we're being strict about resources then 1959. Eat shit and die Russhill

>>64498206
>Vietnam was the aggressor in that war btw, they attacked China's allies in Cambodia

>defending PolPot's legitimately insane genocide-centric regime in any way, for any reason
Sacrifice yourself to feed your machine master, Chang.

>>64498225
>two years in Gaza produced less civilian casualties than two weeks in Sudan
Really makes you think

>>64498268
Yes, Why is the west sponsoring yet another genocide in Africa? They even some Colombian mercs who were bound fir the ukraine

>>64497594 (OP)
>>64497982
One thing that always struck me as peculiar is how the Italian politicians are rabidly pro-Ukraine (bar an amount of buffoons that were and still are pro-Russian) while the vast majority of the population at large is massively pro-Russia. I've had legit conversations from people from all walks of life that essentially told me that the Ukrainians deserve all they get for "antagonizing" Russia or something. I mean, the Ita govermnent would nonetheless hide everything because it's hard to justify spending money on the ukrops while people starve, but the amount of rabid pro-Russians amongst the little people is insanely weird.

>>64498176
>Afghanistan invasion
Ironic considering millions of Afghans were killed and displaced in the USSR's invasion, along with the '90s civil wars.

>>64498290
>hates black people
>cries about genocides in Africa
The absolute state of /pol/estine.

>>64498292
>it's hard to justify spending money on the ukrops while people starve
Italians aren't starving. In fact htey're doing much better than 10 years ago
>ukrops
Isn't that a word used by ziggers and their shills?
That said, I agree, it's weird how pro-russian a lot of Italians are. I wonder how it happened
"the vast majority of the population at large is massively pro-Russia" seem to be a bit of an exaggeration tho

>>64498302
But anon don't you know that doesn't count because its now the Russian Federation? All the crimes (completely justified actions) the Soviets committed (who I need to remind you are not Russia) absolutely do not count or affect the modern Russian state (but they are still just as powerful as the Soviet Union). Everyone knows the second a flag and name changes the country and its people are completely reset

>>64498307
>everything is le /pol/
Mind broken
>>64498302
>Ironic considering millions of Afghans were killed and displaced in the USSR's invasion
It's a real shame the barbaric hohols and balts got away with committing those atrocities

>>64498257
>Wrong, there have been Sosna-Us using French made Catherine FC modules dated to 2016 and 17.
i knew about french thermal cams but i thought they stopped selling them in 2014, are you sure?

>Moreover they further economically encouraged Russia with the Nordstream 2 pipeline.
i said "military hardware", we never stopped trading and doing business with them up until the war and even now i don't think we have completely cut ties with russia.
some countries like hungary and slovakia are still reliant on russian gas.
its really dumb to say this with the benefit of hindsight, would the US have done the lend lease in ww2 had they known about the cold war? probably not

>Not to rag on the Euros but it just drives me up a wall when they have the nerve to say WE are the unreliable allies
it was a time when we still believed russia could join civilized society, we had berlusconi in italy keeping good relations with both gheddafi and putin (he was the one that made putin and bush shake hands, think about that) and everything was going good, then the fr*nch niggers decided they wanted the italian oil contracts in libya so they killed off gheddafi (with the go ahead of hillary clinton, if we want to talk about unreliable allies), berlusconi was eliminated from the italian political scene when germany and fr*nce (once again) basically threatened to make italy go bankrupt by spiking interest rates on state bonds, and putin became more isolated.
wouldn't you know it, a couple years later he invaded crimea.

>>64497775
>still acted like "the west' was encroaching and threatening them
i mean... what would the US do if China totally didn't produce a color revolution in Mexico and their new totally organic government motioned towards putting Chinese bases right on the Texan border...?

>>64498317
>doesn't deny it

>>64497775
The only way Russia has ever been a superpower is it's legacy network of commie traitors, quislings and agents of influence planted as deputy editirs etc in US, Australiana d EU media print and broadcast, its parallel crime networks and it's disinformation capacity granted to it in no small part by the software comrade snowden stole and gave to glavset

We're not watching Russia collapse, we're watching the poisionous core of the old communist evil empire collapse, the kgb/fsb that planted deliberately so many tumours and hatreds and divides in civilisation. Dance on its grave and celebrate

>>64498324
Mexico elect their own government. Your analogy is a false Russian propaganda pile of shit.

>>64498176
right now they are invading your countries waters and your brown country is too cucked to do anything about it

>>64498324
>Maidan was a CIA coup
Shills are still going with this?
That's sad

>>64498324
You say this like Russia is some sort of peer rival to America as the global hegemon. It's fucking over for them and as soon as they stop chimping out they can exit the third world. They can have all the bases in the world on their border and it won't matter so long as they're not expansionaist monkeys forever seething that manlet England surpassed all their dreams of empire from an itty bitty island because no one actually wants to invade them.

>>64498324
>a color revolution
You're a colossal lying propagandist faggot and you deserve to be on the front lines of Ukraine with your faggot snow monkey brethren. Eat shit.

>>64498324
Why doesn't China do this though? Or even better, why doesn't Russia do a color revolution in Mexico or even Canada?

>>64498378
they do. pay attention to all the rainbow flags.

>>64498176
>When's the last time china invaded a country
In 1979?

>>64498324
>90% of Ukraine decided they didn't want to live under a demonstrably worse system that has produced only misery, corruption and failure and be a Russian rump state
>Must be a CIA color revolution

You must have a great explanation for why Ukrainians oppressed under the color-revolution-installed CIA HATO government didn't immediately throw down their arms and embrace their Russian brethren in 2022. The benefits of Russian friendship in Ukraine were felt strongly by the civilians in Bucha and Izyium.

>>64498205
These numbers are bullshit though. In Chechnya people just disappeared and there no investigation done (since lol what will the occupying force investigate itself?). Same with Ukraine, the actual civilian death are waaaay over 100k, but nobody will ever acknowledge that since many of those people officially are just missing or died on the territories controlled by russians.

>>64498176
>When's the last time china invaded a country for its natural resource?

North Korea, ongoing.

>>64498206
>Vietnam was the aggressor in that war btw, they attacked China's allies in Cambodia prompting an intervention

>China's allies in Cambodia

Oh won't someone think of the poor Khmer Rouge? All they wanted was the unmitigated slaughter of a third of their own country's population, and the unrestrained massacre of Vietnamese villages bordering Cambodia, please understand

You are so fucking delusional it's unreal. The Khmer Rouge attacked Vietnam because they were stupid enough to think that they could get territory from them after being weakened by the Vietnam War. They then got what they deserved for that and for committing the largest genocide of the late 20th century, and China, being the cowardly slant eyed gutter oil salesmen that they were, sensed blood in the water and figured they might be able to get a piece of Vietnam as well, and got their asses kicked by Vietnam for zero territorial gains despite a massive numerical and materiel advantage in an embarrassing display of total incompetence.

Kinda like Tibet, which I noticed you haven't brought up, you fucking piece of shit shill hypocrite faggot.

>>64498404
>You must have a great explanation for why Ukrainians oppressed under the color-revolution-installed CIA HATO government didn't immediately throw down their arms and embrace their Russian brethren in 2022
it's exactly what happened in 2014 in the border regions

>>64498176
The West might be interested in helping.

>>64498479
>the "oppressed Ukrainians" in question:

>>64498414
>the UN says you can't fish North Korea
>that means china is invading North Korea
Do you just post these screen caps expecting people not to read them? Kek

>>64498324
We were under the assumption Russia was just another part of Europe and wouldn't behave any differently from us opening a base next to Switzerland.

>>64498374
well, in my hypothetical i mentioned China, which is a far more credible threat than Russia. Would the US cross its arms and do nothing if there was an implessive base in Mexico?

>>64498491
Because we already cross our arms and do nothing when China opens bases in Canada.

>>64498491
You're acting as if super power rules apply to Russia.
As is evidenced their capability only leads to Syria and Ukraine

>>64498494
China has military bases in Canada...?

>>64498501
no just ngo offices

>>64498510
and if it had actual, openly displayed military bases in Mexico? The US would surely intervene somehow. Likewise, Russia saw a potential NATO base in its border as a threat, real or imagined, and acted in consequence.

>>64498515
Canada i meant. Anyway im just playing devil's advocate here. you have to understand your opponent's logic, regardless of if it's sound logic or not, otherwise you act based on incorrect models.

>>64498292
Russia was a model of what Italy could be if it applied itself; they have an identical economy.
When Russia looks bad, Italy looks bad.

>>64498515
And if the Martians landed they would surely speak Italian

>>64498523
i have no idea what this is supposed to mean

>>64498292
It may surprise you but little failures attach to the biggest failure they can find.

>>64498524
Here in Bosnia it basically means okay buddy that's a cool and I fucked the pope's sister

>>64498520
People online think it’s bad when russian tanks get destroyed. But that’s just part of the flow. They send more. As long as more tanks come out than get blown up, that’s fine. It’s like a conveyor belt but for armor. That’s what I keep trying to explain to you people.

Also, the repair yards are basically recycling centers. The burnt tanks go back, get patched up, and come out again. Some look worse, ok, but the system keeps moving. It’s not about winning every fight — it’s about never running out of stuff to fight with.

If you stop the flow, you lose. If you keep it going, you can’t lose unless the other side stops it harder. That’s called attritionist. Swear to fuck you're retarded.

>>64498541
Thank you for eating this ban or whatever. Fukkin saved. (bring back snacks)

>>64498539
That's not how tanks work, you fucking moron. How are more tanks going in than coming out, when they're already using 50 year old hulls? Why do you think a blown up tank is even recoverable.
Your agency used to hire actually intelligent people to subvert conversations here, I can't believe I miss them.

>>64498547
THERES MORE HULLS plus burnt tanks what is that hard, fuck. Refurb from combat and from depots PLUS make a few. What, you think steel is american only?

>>64498515
If I was Russian leader I wouldn't have invaded Ukraine because I know the army is weak and it surely isn't worth it
But I can see how one could get the wrong impression when locked in a room and studying the 2014 shtorm and 2009 special operation

>>64498176
>>64498405
Mariupol morgue did leak 96k name list in late 22

It's not even like how the "hedgehog" tanks are they have MORE metal outside to take up the blast. All that shit that goes flying off is just KE dispersing. So if iut hits the driving inside no one cares because all the metal got blown off and now the hole you gotta weld is smaller or just bolt more shit on it. 500mm or armor is still 500m thick without the fancy clay shit with the metal weave. Tank kevlar.

>>64498572
this is just the first stage
itll go even further beyond at some point
you can't rush regression to hedgehog. trust the process.

>>64498578
It's like a word ablative or applique or something but MORE metal all over sucks up the blast KE when it makes it go flying off so if it does the fuse crushing thing on the tandems even its just blowing metal. Add upp all the metal and you get a lot of mm of armor.

>>64498320
>i knew about french thermal cams but i thought they stopped selling them in 2014, are you sure?
I think at least some Euro countries honored their existing deals with Russia even after that. They just refused to sign any new ones.

>>64498556
And that's just the morgue. Look up how people had to bury their loved one in the fuckin' yard of the commie block. Or the mass graves done by tractors. Or the expansion of actual cemeteries.

>>64498320
>i knew about french thermal cams but i thought they stopped selling them in 2014
Bruh, there is western gear (including French) of 2022+ origin still getting into russia. Before 2022 it was done in massive numbers. Only high-profile shit like Mistral carriers got sacked.

>>64498324
Color revolutions in your context don't exist, it's a russian make belief bullshit. If they were in fact a thing, russia would have long done them in Finland, Baltics, Poland, Ukraine and probably even Germany. But they didn't, because they could not, despite wasting billion on Ukraine alone. Because these things are not a thing.

>>64498520
>they have an identical economy.
Russia doesn't have three trillion dollars in debt

>>64498520
>they have an identical economy.
Italy is a neo-feudal mafioso autocratic petro state cosplaying as an empire?

>>64498633
or three trillion dollars

>>64498314
The ol ottoman ice cream trick

>>64498633
They have a trillion dollar debt and they are already getting fucked by it

>>64498654
It's 400 billion dollars in debt and they have more than that in reserves
>>64498644
Neither does Italy. Their debt to gdp is 135%

>>64498664
>It's 400 billion dollars in debt
Their national debt is hidden by spread it out as corporate debt of de-facto state corporations. Gazprom, Rosneft, Russian Railways and so on. All of those are de-facto arms of the state and all of them are fucked up by debt.

>>64498664
>they have more than that in reserves
bruh, what reserves? the central bank of the nation wealth fund?

>>64497636
they were going to get 4 amphibious assault ships from France too

>>64498719
where would they have used an amphibious assault ship or 4 anyway

>>64497636
I still remember how much lobbying the French did to justify why they could still sell the Russians the two Mistrals.
>>64498290
>the west
>the unites arab emirates
Pick one.

>>64498724
It was planned to be used for an actual Odesa attack

@64498176
>atomic bombs on japan
what a curious addition

>>64498648
They can't try you of committing a crime if you collapse before they can take you to court. Try this neat trick next time you have to pay a traffic ticket or your taxes

>>64498552
Do you think those 50 years old rusting hulls can magically move and their guns fire after being neglected for so long? Do you think 50 year old armor can stand up to modern weapons? Do you think you can train enough tank crew and commanders indefinitely to replace the dead ones? Are you that stupid?

>>64498779
but when they ordered the ships in 2010 there was no crisis in Ukraine yet
weird

>>64498989
My brown friend, they've obviously planned the war before 2014. Them reactively chimping out because of ukie protests is them blowing their load prematurely. It's arguably why they fucked up in 2022: because ukies got a wake up call in 2014 and starting doing things.

>>64498545
>Snacks
AYO OLDFAG (REAL) SPOTTED

>>64498292
italy depended heavily on russian trade, maybe italians were affected by the sanctions. that's my guess.

>>64497594 (OP)
Without shells it is useless

>>64498176
>pasted image...
couldn't even bother to tell your AI to clean up the chart?

>>64498176
Chinks grabbed a huge chunk of the South China Sea with their stupid 9 Dash Line and are fishing and dredging the fuck out of it
Obama was too cucked to do anything about it and now it's too late

T. Ethnic chink

>>64500016
Europe is producing more shells than pidorstan tho

>>64500002
This entire shitshow is designed to fuck over Europe.

>>64500002
Nah, pastanon here. We sold russia mostly niche fancy shit for the oligarchs (just a little more than 1% our export was for russia), out oil comes mainly from Lybia, Iraq, Azerbaijan and Nigeria (less than 15% from russia in 2020). All the pro russian people here are scared boomers, demoralized millennials and edgy zoomers that do not vote, so they do not count.

>>64498633
They will after this war.

The aggressive European militarists keep fueling the genocide of the peaceful Russian nation. Outrageous!

>>64498292
Europeans in general are not pro-Russian exactly but are loathe to do anything that will affect their income, understandably given their precarious economic situation (balanced on a knife edge and totally unable to deal with any kind of systemic shock such as war)

So despite going RA RA TRD very vocally, they demand that TRD must be enacted without
1) inflation due to changing suppliers, or
2) additional taxes, or
3) reducing welfare spending, or
4) expanding the army, whether by conscription or not
And this is also why they castigate the US so harshly, because they know deep down they rely on the US's massive war chest in money and materiel to offset the impact of war on their economy
(Even if they'll die before admitting it)

All this is of course basically impossible, so the politicians and generals have had to essentially dupe the voters into accepting increased defence spending that they don't fully understand the financial ramifications of.
If you walked up to a European and told him €0.50 of every €100 he earns is going to defeat Russia, he would be fairly alright with that, but if you asked him to RAISE the figure to €1 he would balk.
That's just the way it is.

Before the Europeans on /k/ shit all over me for saying this, you're not the problem. The average joe voter is. You're not the average joe, by being on /k/ you are typically pro-war. So don't take it personally.

The aggressive European militarists keep fueling the genocide of the peaceful Russian nation. Based!

>>64498317
>It's a real shame the barbaric hohols and balts got away with committing those atrocities
hahahahha

>>64498520
>>64498539
>>64498292
zigzog VPN goes brrrr

>>64497594 (OP)
The centauro is so fucking sexy

>>64498292
>while the vast majority of the population at large is massively pro-Russia
lmao, ma che cazzo dici

>>64497636
Centauros in the Russian tree in WT when?

>>64498292
I have not seen any "rabidly pro-ukraine" stances in mainstream politics. It's the usual "we'll support them as long as it is needed, as long as support means sternly wagging our index finger in the general direction of the kremlin". I wish there were some moderate politicians who support common sense stances such as the complete eradication of russian people, the hunting of russian refugees becoming the new national sport, and a promise to salt the entire russian territory by 2028.
I have most definitely never seen any significant number of pro-russia tards. They exist, for sure, but they're nowhere near a majority, much less a "vast majority".

>>64500057
Tell me more shellless Gayrapean

>>64498292
>Only right leaning government with a pro-ukraine slant in Europe
>Oh but le neapolitans who function on feudalistic culture and rules told me Ukraine deserves it
Ritardato, no, RUStardato.

>>64500178
As a Euro, we're just retarded and letting other powers in the world play us for chumps while everyone else in the world loots whatever small inheritance we have left

>>64497775
This is one of the big gripes I have when it comes to Russian foreign policy and why the invasion of Ukraine was such a retarded thing to do from a geopolitical standpoint.
>Pull off seemingly successful Sudetenland style annexation of neighbors territory which only results in political finger wagging and harsh words
>Have almost a monopoly over EU gas and oil imports
>Still regarded as the second most competent military after US due to Soviet heritage and muscle flexing in Syria
>Still have a functioning but outdated heacy industrial sector that still produces a profit
>Ukrainians only hate Russian politicians and Moscow but don't have that big a gripe against Russians and the language because historical and cultural shit
>Diversification of economy slowly taking off, especially in IT and banking

So with this in mind do you use your soft power to your benifit by just consolidating your gains, put your finances in a large national infrastructure modernization while smoothing things over with the West? No you YOLO into Ukraine and fuck up all your gains over the last 25 years...
I don't understand the rationality behind this move.

>>64498336
>we're watching the poisionous core of the old communist evil empire collapse
I fucking wish. It's more likely that that cancer is just gonna metastasize after getting taken over by some other agency, whether foreign intelligence, corporate, or otherwise. And I'd love all the FSB & Co, along with their useful idiot moral parasite shit-eaters, to be executed as a lesson to their would-be successors.

>>64498257
you are unreliable allies because you are a nation of morons who pick populist politicians

>>64500453
>I don't understand the rationality behind this move.
Only possible explanation is Putin's ego getting in the way of good decisions. He MUST reform the soviet union before he dies you see. It's his birthright as emperor.

>>64500453
Isolate an aging hypochondric sociopath in a room for 2 years during COVID and only let him talk to a clique of yes-men and see how much rationality is left.

>>64500446
In general that's what all our countries are suffering
This IS an invasion by the global south, aided and abetted by the leftists in charge of the goverments

>>64498336
>the poisionous core of the old communist evil empire collapse
No, it's getting worse. People kind of forgot that money buys loyalty, so if you're not any happier living under a bridge under capitalism than you are scratching your balls while pretending to work and getting a wife and food on the table under communism, you start to wonder why you wouldn't have communism instead

>>64498515
>Russia saw a potential NATO base in its border as a threat
Always the most retarded excuse ever. The distance from Tallinn to Moscow (Tallinn is the capital of Estonia - a NATO member) is 1000km. The distance from Kiev to Moscow is 1,600km. Worrying about Ukraine having a NATO base is fucking retarded when you have NATO bases right next to you and closer to your key cities already. It's nonsense. It's extra nonsense since the USA (and UK and France) have sub launched and aircraft launched nuclear weapons (not sure if France does, I know UK has F-35's specifically for it now) so why would a base in Ukraine be any issue anyway? It's just an excuse, which is why when they invaded you had people going
>There is no war in Ukraine
and
>We invaded to prevent a war starting in Ukraine
and
>We're denazifying Ukraine
and
>We're protecting Russian citizens from Ukraine
and
>We're protecting people from gays and trannies
and
>We're protecting people from evil Anglo-SATANS

They just threw as many excuses and reasons at the wall so that even if you're a smart shill, you'll eventually go 'Oh that's the reason' when they've listed dozens and you've dismissed certain ones.

>>64500354
Holy based. I'm from Canada and I keep preaching these moderate stances to normalize violence against russians. I'd say a step beyond, pogrom against any kind of russian/pro-russian in the western world. Russia must be extinguished for me to get cheap tall super model blonde russian mail order bride

>>64500453
Because they saw how little the West reacted in the CLANKENING and how little they reacted in 2014 that they assumed if they could pull off a German invasion of Austria Ansclush type deal then the West would just grumble, wag their fingers and just accept that it's happened. Which is why Germany was so resistant to helping because it didn't want to upset Russia when it believed that Russia would eventually achieve its annexation goals. It was only when it was clear they weren't and the evil Bongs started red line crossing they were guilt into helping (but not too much, we can't send Taurus!). All COVID did was scare Putin into thinking he could die at any moment from something he had no control over - disease. So he needed to get it done NOW despite the FSB going
>Give us 18 more months to kompromat Ukraine's military and politicians and we'll walk it
He assumed that 80% was good enough and assumed (foolishly) that his generals, officers and soldiers weren't corrupt and didn't mass sell their supplies prior to invasion.

The ultimate issue is that nobody has much more to send to Ukraine to help them, so it has turned into what it has turned into and as long as Russia can trick foreigners to come fight and die for them and can hand them an AK then nothing matters.

>>64500674
>they assumed if they could pull off a German invasion of Austria Ansclush type deal
2022 wasn't Anschluss thoughever it was literally Poland 1939

>>64500712
Crimea was Ansclush
2014-2015 campaign in donbas was a botched czechia annexation

>>64498292
i've never met a pro russian person in my life and i'm a 32 yo italian man. i don't know what you're talking about.
the only thing i can conced to you is that our news media tend to be overly catastrophistic in the portrayal of russian "victories", but that's standard fear mongering, widespread in all the west.

>>64500662
>Always the most retarded excuse ever. The distance from Tallinn to Moscow (Tallinn is the capital of Estonia - a NATO member) is 1000km. The distance from Kiev to Moscow is 1,600km.
Ahem. Not saying they're right, but all the shit we're suffering from now started around the time the Baltics entered NATO and Ukraine had the Orange Revolution. That's when they decided for good that evil HATO was out to kill them and take their shit

>>64500743
>Crimea was Ansclush
I can agree with that
>2014-2015 campaign in donbas was a botched czechia annexation
So was 2022 arguably
They made the exact same thunder run to the capital both times

>>64501105
>So was 2022 arguably
2022 was a botched Poland invasion

>>64501015
>they decided
Actually, the issue of NATO "expansionism" was a intra-NATO discussion that was mooted ever since Poland requested to join more or less immediately following the USSR's dissolution, in the mid/late 90s. Immediately some Westoids began bitching that it might trigger Soviet rearmament. The famous 2% defence spending target came about in a tangential discussion from this, because obviously there was a need to deter Russia. The more hawkish faction proposed 5%, the cucks in West Europe 1%.

Anyhow... the Russians picked up on this and used it as disinformation propaganda and a convenient casus belli in the 21st century. In other words a couple of idiotic Fukuyama types in NATO said "hey dyou think we might be overreacting?" and the Russians responded "YES YOU ARE SEE YOUR OWN PEOPLE SAID SO THEREFORE WE ARE INVADING IN SELF-DEFENCE AND YOU CAN'T BLAME US!!"

I fucking hate politicians, and Russians.

>>64501113
>2022 was a botched Poland invasion
After March, yes.

>>64498292
remember that the average Italian is like 50+ years old and the Italians are a notoriously agressive, ignorant, arrogant and hostile people. They don't like anyone including each other.

>>64498307
When you realize they're Arab, Pakistani etc it makes sense

>>64498378
They do, its called the São Paulo Forum.

>>64501132
Say what you will about the retarded foreign policy of Bush Jr., but his hard push to get more Eastern European states into NATO was based.

>>64501288
i wonder how he would have handled Ukraine

>>64501288
NATO "expansionism" is a Clinton-era thing however
Not sure about Bush policy

>>64501331
2004 was the big year that pissed off Russia.
>>64501321
Massive conventional build-up in Poland probably.

>>64499283
I'm sorry but you can never leave.

>>64498292
>the vast majority of the population at large is massively pro-Russia
what the fuck are you talking about
>t. italian

>>64500180
Trust the Plan.

>>64500199
What you don't even get the physics? The whole shell has 1 kilojoule of energy. So if you put a lot of weight it has to move with an explosion but ton't firmy attach it then all the bomb does is blow off the metal and the tank under it would work, or the soldiers live their lives!
This is why the war will be a tunneling war soon. And you should be happy about it or it would be worse!

anthropromorphizes ur centauro

>>64498292
>ukrops
Taci russo pattume

>>64501393
It was never about pissing off Russia; they were never really beaten and always looking for an opportunity to come back

>>64501409
Lmao

>>64500016
whats with this spam since 2023.

>>64501409
>Perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility. I admire its purity. A survivor. Unclouded by conscience, remorse... or delusions of morality

>>64501603
I didn't say that the purpose of the '04 expansion was to piss off Russia. That expansion was righteous and a net-good for humanity. I'm saying that it had the effect of pissing off Russia, unreasonable as that reaction was/is.

>>64501753
>I'm saying that it had the effect of pissing off Russia
I know you're saying this, and I'm saying no, that's just the excuse they give. They were always looking for an excuse. They had always been pissed off, they never stopped being sore losers.

>>64501806
Fair enough. I've done some reading recently about the Bosnian War, and one theme that confuses me is how Russia seemed to only support the Serbs for reasons of "vibes" and sticking it to the West.

>>64498292
You're either not italian, or you never actually go outside.
IRL the majority of the people either support Ukraine or at the very least condemn Russia and view it as a blatant aggression.
Where you find most of the italians that are pro russia is online on weird niche forums and on social media, by accounts who half the time don't know how to properly write in italian because they are russian trolls, or because they barely graduated from middle school.
Regarding our politicians you'll find clowns like Salvini/Vannacci who are obviously pro russia but are often too much of a pussy to say it openly. You have Meloni who is mostly pro-Ukraine just because it suits her politically and in finis you have the left who are, in words, pro Ukraine, but are also anti war so they say aid to Ukraine should only be of flowers and good wishes. I forgot about the worst italian party of them all, even worse than the communist party; the 5 Star Movement with Conte, who does something similar to the left where they say they are "for peace", but in reality they are pro/bought by Russia so they constantly oppose every single aid package for Ukraine, and think that the only solution to peace is to spread your buttcheeks when someone invade your country.
Anyone who votes for the 5S deserves to be sent to and confined to for life in Naples.

>>64498292
>hard to justify spending money on the ukrops while people starve
Show me a single (1) person who starved to death in Italy in the last 40 years due to their economic situation.

>>64501930
>who does something similar to the left where they say they are "for peace", but in reality they are pro/bought by Russia so they constantly oppose every single aid package for Ukraine, and think that the only solution to peace is to spread your buttcheeks when someone invade your country.
I was weirdly invested in the recent Moldovan election, and that line of persuasion was literally exactly what the obviously pro-Russian electoral bloc was pushing.
It's so clearly disingenuous.
>"Let's be friends with both Russia and the EU!"

>>64497775
>>64498336
This is the shit I hate the most and what I can give Russia their due, which is that they punch way above their weight. People (boomers especially) really think we're dealing with the Soviet Union 2.0 but int reality doesn't understand how fragile Russia is, literally being dependent on Putin as a tsar, their projections and NOOKS.

>>64501461
>not making it an actual centaur
Meh.