Thread 64501433

We had a thread on this a couple weeks ago about the portside bow JBD being in the way of the waist landing strip making simultaneous launch and recovery impossible, but now they've bought up some new shit the carrier is afflicted with:
>Initially designed with a steam catapult
>Later changed to an electromagnetic catapult, and since the length was insufficient, it was extended rearward leading to earlier thread topic
>Aircraft carrier Fujian-san, the issue of the catapult position on the starboard side of the bow being quite bad as well. With this, simultaneous use with the forward elevator might be tough, right?
Picrel has deck diagrams in descending order:
>Fujian
>Forrestal-Class
>John F. Kennedy-Class (conventionally powered Kitty Hawk-class for a fair Fujian analog)
Reason why the Forrestal-Class was bought up was because it had this bullshit portside bow elevator half exposed to the JBD in addition to being in the middle of the waist landing strip, a substantial secondary factor making it unusable not only during landings but also during bow launches, which was removed in all proceeding carrier designs. The Fujian has this same elevator JBD problem, but with only 2 elevators instead of 3 on the Forrestal-Class. So elevator usage is reduced to 1 (one) while bow launches are happening.
>The fact that the ship was completed while defects that should have been able to be detected and dealt with early on were left unaddressed suggests that the Chinese ship design department does not have a system in place to check for and correct such defects, which means that while the defect with the catapult was found because it is a visible part, it is highly likely that there are many defects in parts that cannot be seen.
https://x.com/Witchwatch99/status/1987476516385738902

>>64501433 (OP)
>Initially designed with a steam catapult
Welp, starting off with a falsehood. Stopped reading.

>>64501433 (OP)
implessive. changs are shaping up to be a Temu IJN in the upcoming pacific war. These big hulks will make nice wrecks though. Just make sure they have the courage to sail them into deeper waters then the taiwan straight kiddy pool

>>64501469
cope chinksect
https://x.com/Bangking123/status/1987567094137749860

underwater drones make carriers obsolete, you can now seed the ocean with drones with their own AI processor that unlike mines can sit on the ocean floor virtually undetectable and select their targets avoiding decoys or use strategies like allowing the enemy fleet to pass over them and attack in unison when the fleet is surrounded by drones ensuring a higher success rate

Realistically, Fujian will forever be a training ship, at best playing a support role in a future conflict in Taiwan.

It'll be used to train officers and crew before the first Type 004 launches, where they're expecting to fix many of these design flaws in the new ship and they'll have a fairly large group of trained personnel to draw from for manning their new ship.

>>64501487
For real, the artificial reef it'll become will make up for all the reefs they've been dredging.

>>64501519
>billion dollar training scow
>fix the mistakes in post

>>64501433 (OP)
Not to give the chinks an inch, but yeah, those are exactly the kind of fuckups I'd expect out of a first-time attempt at really any kind of big project. Those little details that aren't all that obvious if you don't have a brain trust of people familiar with doing it, and then immediately pile up to be a big fucking problem.

>>64501494
>xitter
Big if true

>>64501659
Common knowledge, twitter works. But if you need some more reading:
>Haishifenbong attributed the issue to a last-minute switch from steam to electromagnetic catapults. Steam catapults require 70-meter launch strips, but electromagnetic systems need over 100 meters, causing overlap with landing zones.
https://www.chosun.com/english/world-en/2025/10/06/DWRUMBAMRNBPFAQL4JGOBU7LPY/
https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202511/08/WS690e844ba310fc20369a3e18.html

>>64501433 (OP)
If only the chinese would hire random zoomer kids off twatter to fix their designs, could save them decades and trillions in fuckups.

>Chinkshills proudly announce that Chinese weapons development is more efficient than American because they don't waste money on excessive validation and testing
>People are somehow surprised when implessive chink wonderwaffles have problems that would have been identified and corrected during the validation and testing process

>>64501573
To be fair, aircraft carriers in 2025+ are always going to be expensive as fuck. And you have to start somewhere.

Liaoning gave them the basics of carrier operation. Shandong gives them domestic manufacturing of a carrier hull, and Fujian gives them a modern catapult carrier to learn from.

The Type 004 will continue to build on what they've learned. With the biggest change likely being a nuclear reactor.

If the west is lucky they'll fuck up the nuclear reactor layout/design in a similar way to how Fujian fucked up the deck layout and China will need to do a Type 005 or even a Type 006 before they've got a "final" carrier design they might think about building at larger scale.

>>64501741
Interesting point about just building one or a handful of each generation to achieve parity against a known overpeer. We'll see how quickly they can build that institutional knowledge.

>>64501433 (OP)
Wrong, it was initially design with the cope jump ramp.

>>64501702
This but unironically

>>64501505
You can change what the carrier carries.

>>64501717
>they don't waste money on excessive validation and testing
You do know that even plastic bag manufacturers have validation and testing right? It's virtually impossible to make anything without this process. It simply wouldn't be built

Carriers are obsolete and serve no purpose in an era of international ballistic missiles.

>>64501717
idk if any of us are surprised by this

>>64501702
>If only the chinese would hire random zoomer kids off twatter to fix their designs, could save them decades and trillions in fuckups.

Now you understand why giant robots always have to be piloted by angsty teens.

>>64501741
>China will need to do a Type 005 or even a Type 006 before they've got a "final" carrier design they might think about building at larger scale.

Thats likely what they will do. If you look at historical chinese developement of copied technology (such as USSR Romeo subs and Mig-21s) you will find that this is precisely what they do. They iterate over and over and each iteration is improved over the previous, until they end up with something that is completely unrecognizable from the first copy.

My guess is that since the chinks are not restricted by the need to have their carriers pass trough the panama channel, they will go for extremely large carrier designs, because carriers only become better and better the larger they are, and this will enable them to carry very large aircraft.

>>64502203
I know everything, but I understand nothing.

>>64502225
Not a single CVN was designed to or can go through the Panama canal. There is a reason why the US has built over a dozen CVNs over the course of half a century and had them all max out at 100k tons.

>>64501433 (OP)
>originally designed for steam catapults
>Xi orders last minute change to electromagnetic to pwn the Americans
>turns a mid but functional carrier into an unusable piece of shit
>upper management good idea fairy once again bricks a project that should've been left to the engineers
>as with all things, the blame lies on C-suite retards pushing their stupid ideas on the technical staff.
t.salty technical worker

"Type 56 story of chinas army"'s videos have a good overview of the issue with the chinks
>military generally has a good idea of what chink capabilities are and where they need to go and will lay plans for incremental improvements to develop technical capability that will span the course of decades and generally follow a crawl/walk/run format
>these plans inevitably get derailed when either dear leader or a party apparatchik insists on meddling with a program to alternately
>pwn the Soviets
>pwn the Americans
>show the world China stronk
>prove that proletarian ground up engineering can beat the laws of physics (by sending engineers to labor camps and putting the line workers in charge of development)
>torture all the competent workers to death in the latest witch hunt
>torture the people in charge of the procurement programs to death in the latest witch hunt
>torture half the officers in the general staff to death in the latest witch hunt

>>64501487
they won't risk the real IJN showing up

>>64502514
Chinks don't torture people any more. They have the social credit system and 24/7 surveilence system to control their citizens. They even open what basically are police stations in western countries to control their citizens abroad.

>>64501741
>if they're lucky
Whats going to happen is the nuke plant on their carriers is going to be thorium, but they haven't addressed the byproduct contamination problem of a thorium salt cycle, so in 10 years time the reactor needs to be taken offline for a core dump and recharge or it goes below threshold power production and ship no worky without turning shit off.

>>64502147
China will use carrier to keep shipping lanes open from low level threats as USN and USA in general decline.

That is also why they are building big flying boats.

New sea-monster spotted!!!

>>64501505
>who would ever want things which can fly around deploying sonobuoys and the drones I'm hyping up despite them being totally untested?

Now that it's in succinct greentext do you understand how retarded you sound? The primary way to get your small "ai drones" to where they need to be would be air deployment since their small size means you aren't going to be putting and unattended reactor in them. Being autonomous doesn't alleviate the need for maintenance and fuel. Also the sonobuoys we've had for decades can blast an entire region of the sea with active sonar and detect even small and stationary objects. One of the hypothetical defenses against large numbers of autonomous submersibles would be a shitton of anti-sub patrols for which you would want shittons of aircraft.

>>64501433 (OP)
So they'll learn from it and do better in nine months. We, on the other hand, are not exactly launching five ships a day anymore. Between the iteration speed gap and our computers all getting pwned sooner or later, the tech gap is doomed, and in fairly sort order. So forgive me if I don't much feel like clowning on them right now.

can I get the
>implessive
copy pasta?

>>64502142
>It's virtually impossible to make anything without this process. It simply wouldn't be built
You would think. Then the chinks go and spend billions of dollars on a "super" carrier with only a single functional elevator.

>>64503905
>takin chang claims at face value while demoralized
mhmh. Unless they start chimping out real soon, like in a year or two, they fate is japan style stagnation. Without the wealth or healthy environment. The stagflation recession is already going strong and social tension high with massive youth unemployment

>>64503905
>9 months
You fuck the ship or something? It took them 9 year 9 months to go from laying the keel to commissioning this piece of shit. Their next one is expected to take 7-8 years.

>>64502609
why is this plane landing on a destroyer?

>>64503935
Somewhere among the infinite possible universes, there's an alternate reality where the old ones get sold to Ukraine and the Turks don't stop them at the straits becuase it's funnier (they were bribed) to agree that they're "not carriers."

>>64503947
Aren't the Japanese carriers technically aviation cruisers like the Soviet ones? The Turks let the other Kuznetsov through.

>>64503952
Japan has no carriers, the Izumo is a destroyer.

>>64503953
I just looked it up, they're multirole aviation cruisers.

>>64503947
The "Old ones" are conventional destroyers with expanded aviation facilities.

>>64503952
No, they're called helicopter destroyers, or at least the Hyugas still are. The Izumos are being redesignated as CVM, carriers.

>>64503935
stop noticing things.

>>64502801
I’m a little behind on thorium reactors, but aren’t most people pushing for molten salt reactors with thorium as the furl source? Last I checked the biggest issue is the corrosion, so realistically they would probably be changing out the reactor components every few years unless there was a major a breakthrough in material sciences, right?
>>64503647
China doesn’t care about international shipping, they’re not a maritime power but operate like a traditional land power, complete with ethnic cleansing. They’re the equivalent of an African state if one of them har a population that took and held power consistently.

>>64502147
Recent experience in the Red Sea says they're more survivable than you think. It gets memory hodled, but the Houthi were spamming ballistic missiles drones and usv at the US ships there for months in quite earnest attempts to sink them. Of course Yemen isn't China, or even Russia, but you'd that was real combat. Deny it and disrespect the sailors.

>>64502801

Thorium reactors produce less difficult to handle decay chains than conventional uran-plutonium reactors (thorium reactors do not generate plutonium) and they are in a constant cycle of discharging waste and accepting new fuel. They do not use solid rods but liquid fuel enabling continual fuel turnover.

It was precisely because these reactors do not produce plutonium that developement of this technolog was canceled. They are only good for making energy.

>>64501741
Isnt their Type 04 supposed to be nuclear? Type 03 was just conventional diesel electric right?

>>64504382
Yes

>>64504372
The Houthis have no anti-ship missiles.
See an anti-ship missile is supposed to hit ships.
The missiles the Houthis launched did not hit ships.
They're thusly not anti-ship missiles.

>>64503905
If they could learn from it in 9 months we wouldn't see this issue to begin with. This flaw was known decades ago.

>>64504375
>Thorium reactors produce less difficult to handle decay chains than conventional uran-plutonium reactors
I'll take "what is Pa233?" for the 500, Ching.

>>64504520
>The Greek-owned bulk carrier Zografia (IMO: 9486013) was hit in the Red Sea on January 16 2024.
>A video has emerged of the moments the missile struck. It is possible to say from this that it was an anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) fired from the direction of Yemen. It struck the ship amidships and close to the center line, diving in at an almost 45 degree angle. The explosion was significant.

>The first observation is that it implies an imaging guidance, likely infrared / electro-optical. This matches the nosecones observed on Houthi ASBMs. The missile was likely aiming at the center of the ship, hitting it with great accuracy.

>Given video quality (the missile was traveling at high speed) it is tricky to be too specific on the outline of the missile. It is roughly 10 meters long however and has noticeable tail fins. This broadly matches the Fateh-110/313 family of ballistic missiles from Iran. These come in anti-ship guided versions ('Khalij Fars') which are known as 'Asef' in Houthi service. The Asef is 8.8 meters (29 foot) long and 0.612 meters (2 feet) in diameter. It can carry a 380 kg (840 lb) warhead (some sources indicate larger) 500 km (270 NM).

kys lmao, SM-6s were smoking these daily last year.

>>64504576
Given the volume of missiles the houthis fired and how densely the straight is travelled by ships, they're bound to hit something by accident eventually.
But they might as well shoot unguided rockets.
This only strengthens my point.

>>64504364
>>64502801
thorium sucks ass
People will cite "muh nukes" as the reason why it was killed but the truth is that the thorium fuel cycle is fucking retarded and you'd need to be desperate to go for it.
You have a transmutation step with a 30 day half life in the middle of your process, before you've actually handled any fissile material whatsoever and pretty much everything you make is a lot more radioactive than the various steps in the Uranium cycle.
This means, if literally anything goes not according to plan and you have to open up your reactor to check or you are changing fuel elements and so on and so forth, you have to wait for several months until you can actually safely do so.

People didn't choose Uranium for nukes, they chose it because it just works.

>>64502147
>superpowers have no use for force projection

>>64504601

> source: my ass

Keep coping, redditmutt. But the reality is the
muttistan has lagged behind in nuclear industry.

Need I to remind that mutt is still importing fuel rods from russia ?

Thorium is the true way toward strategic autonomy, mutt has neglected it for so long and only now China finally put it to good use

What's next ? Gonna cope how steam catapult is superior to EMALS ?

>>64504597
So you are ignoring the disadvantages of a tiny strait for a carrier while saying this?

>>64504695
found the chink

>>64504695
So, how do you solve the Proactinium-233 problem?
That shit glows more than my government employed ass

>>64505039
>Proactinium-233 problem
Plenty of space on a carrier, just isolate the protactinium until it decays to uranium-233, then introduce the uranium-233 back into the reactor to fission and produce the neutrons to convert additional thorium.
And the beauty of it all, no reliance on foreign uranium ore